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Readers have reported that this story contains information that may not be accurate.219 Comments
- otros, on 07/09/2008, -3/+190the video could show the same in half the running time.
- XorpheusX, on 07/09/2008, -2/+161"Instead of shooting where I was, you should have shot at where I was going to be!"
- pewpewarrows, on 07/09/2008, -12/+143In an average game, lag compensation is on. However, do keep in mind that this person tested in a zero network latency environment. In that sense "lag compensation" is quite the misnomer, as it's referencing the offset between the hitbox moving and the client rendering said movement (internal lag, if you will). In practice, the 50-100 ms lag does take a somewhat significant effect.
What I would like to see a game engine designer try, is a system where shots are not calculated by the server's evaluation of everyone's position (or of some craptastic middle-man averaging), but instead calculate a hit or miss based on each individual client. That is, if on your screen you shot the guy, then your game sends that data to the server and everyone else. It would be more of a hive-minded approach to lag compensation. I'm sure there are several hurdles to pass in creating a system like this (exploiting client-side models is the first thing to come to my mind). But I'd like to see how it plays. - Roksix, on 07/09/2008, -4/+118That is why I roll engineer.
- scy1192, on 07/09/2008, -4/+111so in a normal game, is lag compensation off, or on?
- neio, on 07/09/2008, -21/+111***** music.
- BugMeNot2, on 07/09/2008, -0/+63Like you said, client-side models would be easier to create cheats for. There was one game that used client-side hit detection and the hacks made for it were terrible.
- Cebo, on 07/09/2008, -5/+64Why is it that every time someone makes a gaming video it has to come with the obligatory crappy metal music?
- tedrock, on 07/09/2008, -8/+64Buried for misleading title.
- maijc, on 07/09/2008, -2/+52ummm...kinda from the comments:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Mul ...
much more detailed:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Lag_Compen ... - BenKenobi88, on 07/09/2008, -0/+42TF2 is definitely not the only game to do this, but whatever.
- Tryptomine, on 07/09/2008, -3/+45Ugh, this has already been shot down as a worthless, inaccurate video.
(First of all, Lag compensation is on by default.) - play150, on 07/09/2008, -1/+39It's on :)
- Abomonog, on 07/09/2008, -1/+35It makes it easier for the sniper because the weapon is a hitscan item and the moving hit box placement lets the sniper lead the target properly.
Hitscan= the shot doesn't actually travel. The hit is recorded at the target the second the trigger is fired. - praveenmarkandu, on 07/09/2008, -5/+37you are right. it doesnt make a difference. people who are actually good at FPS games know you dont shoot directly at the target. you shoot where the target is going to be... thats even more true in sniping.
- brettmurf, on 07/09/2008, -4/+36You clearly don't play first person shooters.
30 ms person walks around corner. 200 ms person shoots them in the head, but they haven't gone around corner. 30 ms person is baffled by stupid impossible shot. You will also see rockets firing from classes like soldiers halfway to you before they are visible to compensate for the laggy player. Client side is BS. Ping above 90 ms makes a FPS non competitive. I consistently play a game called "Warsow" on Euro servers, but I know that half their dodges and half of my shots look like BS to them. I think that is why i keep doing it.
I am a pretty great sniper at TF2, and play enough games to realize how BS it is. On a marginally laggy server, scouts are impossible to hit because of this compensation. I have somewhat adusted to guessing where the hit will register, but it is still dumb.
Quake 3 still had the most competitive netcode, but even playing in 100 ms vanilla quake 3 was rough. - PhoenixAvatar2, on 07/09/2008, -5/+35SPY SAPPIN' MAH HITBOX!
- Ben1220, on 07/09/2008, -0/+27more like 1/10 :P
- mrblue182, on 07/09/2008, -0/+25Client side would be so hackable it isn't funny. Within a week of the game's release, there would be hacks to increase hitbox sizes.
- aookay, on 07/09/2008, -1/+25They don't show the part where the pyro comes from behind them and lights them on fire though.
Pyros don't need hitboxes! - OrdinaryPanda, on 07/09/2008, -2/+23Halo 3 has some of these elements you're looking for, and it is a mess. I saw a video from my system that looked way different than the replay for that same fight that someone else sent to me. (On mine I got a clean sniper shot to his head, on his he went around the corner and I "shot" him through the wall)
The only real answer could be really fast internet connection, with a dedicated server to eliminate at least host advantage. - latova, on 07/09/2008, -0/+21http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Lag_Compen ...
Here's more on the subject. There's nothing to be concerned about, its actually pretty good at handling hitboxes, but this is also why it appears that you are behind cover sometimes but you still get killed. It's because you appear to be in a different place on someone elses screen while on your screen you were behind cover. - t.toe, on 07/09/2008, -18/+39Wow, that's nuts! But I don't see how a hit box preceding the actual model would make it any easier for a sniper to get a headshot...
- schmiggyjk, on 07/09/2008, -11/+31It doesn't. The hitbox is still the same size, you still have to aim and hit it on the run, or stationary, regardless if it is slightly off for lag compensation.
Inaccurate story, buried. - Walgreenz, on 07/09/2008, -1/+19Yeah my same question..
- maexus, on 07/09/2008, -0/+17I remember back in the day, the same kind of videos came out for CS and CSS
- Tryptomine, on 07/09/2008, -0/+17It seems to be a client-side option, of course it is on by default.
- Step1Mark, on 07/09/2008, -1/+17I guess they went for the Family Guy approach.
- metamorfoza, on 07/09/2008, -0/+15The problem with your solution is not the models (that might be protected this way or the other) but that packets that are sent to the server (which are carrying the info of you shooting) can be modified and then sent to the server without server knowing the credibility (or the origin for that matter) of the message.
- Vzylexy, on 07/09/2008, -0/+15Ugh, getting shot when I'm behind cover pisses me off.
- Ben1220, on 07/09/2008, -0/+15"a system where shots are not caluclated by the server's evaluation, but instead calculate a hit or miss based on each individual client"
Yes that would be nice, have a stab at why that never happens though, :P
Even with server side hit detection you still have plenty cheaters out there, you would need to have an anticheat nazi program which would probably turn people off the game due to random kicks just to be sure... aka punkbuster, which automatically kicks players from a server if its not sure, better safe then sorry i guess, but when you get kicked for 30 minutes for having default settings on random commands that are difficult to spell and are very long and can only be changed from the console...
yes, I really really don't like punkbuster :P - gavin422, on 07/09/2008, -2/+16Why is it that every time someone makes a gaming video it has to come with the obligatory crappy {metal, techno, hip-hop, punk, ska, rock, pop} music?
Fixed. - Jenadae, on 07/09/2008, -1/+15If you notice as he got closer the hit box moved closer to the actual target, i believe the hit box adjusts for the time it would take the bullet to reach the player.
- dasdef, on 07/09/2008, -1/+15god damned awpers
- s4g4n, on 07/09/2008, -1/+14In soviet Russia, hit boxes follow you.
- aadsfasdf, on 07/09/2008, -2/+15The halo series is 10 times slower paced than any other FPS.
- keitarofujiwara, on 07/09/2008, -3/+16The title is misleading but the music is just mind numbingly horrible.
- Attol, on 07/09/2008, -1/+14The really good snipers have been playing Counter Strike for several years, sniping in TF2 is pretty much like an easier version of awping.
- Vazel, on 07/09/2008, -0/+13year pretty bad editing.
- bubba9999, on 07/09/2008, -0/+11it made 6 minutes seem like forever.
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -0/+11"WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY, GOODNIGHT"
- wxdotz, on 07/09/2008, -0/+11I'd like to believe that the real good snipers were once all great railgun users.
- gzusfreak, on 07/09/2008, -5/+15Mem:
Buried for explaining why you buried him.
See, it works both ways! - rk_cr, on 07/09/2008, -0/+10A good example of this problem is OS game BZFlag. Almost all of the code is client-side instead of server-side. As a result, the cheating that can occur is ridiculous. You can transport about the map, send false messages to the server, fire extra bullets, etc.
- Zuwxiv, on 07/09/2008, -0/+10That is what I assumed, rather than using physics for each projectile it seems lighter on the computer to just move hitboxes.
A fast moving target from far distances should be led. Even BF1942 did this fairly well. This video shows how WELL the game was made that it CORRECTLY takes movement into account for weapons. - humanerror, on 07/09/2008, -2/+11I play almost exclusively as sniper and I've noticed that you get a lot more headshots if you "miss" the guy by a little bit instead of hitting him perfectly, and in fact sometimes even multiple shots directly to the head will have no effect.
I'd always wondered what the hell was going on with that. Now I know. - cornflakepirate, on 07/09/2008, -0/+9Why does this video repeat every single gameplay segment at least once? I saw it fine the first time, and if I missed something then I could have just skipped back.
Also the video doesn't actually explain how "people get insane headshots". - inactive, on 07/09/2008, -2/+10So leading my shot is useless? Hmm, might explain why I suck at being a sniper in FPS'es..I played realistically.
- ZenMojo, on 07/09/2008, -2/+10Have you ever played pyro? Pyros REALLY need to be aware of hitboxes. I've seen a pyro dance last twenty seconds while they spin around each other unable to get a bead thanks to that wonkiness.
- Elliuotatar, on 07/09/2008, -0/+7Dugg for being someone who actually understood what the video was trying to tell you. Most of the other posters have got it backwards.
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