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- inactive, on 08/14/2008, -7/+99In my view, it's generally teens or young adults without jobs that practice piracy. People with any sort of reasonable income will cought up the small premium to play the games. Maybe it's just my experience or perception, but piracy usually comes about of necessity or teen hacking / geek mania.
- teh_spazz, on 08/14/2008, -8/+72I pirate because I'm a cheap bastard. I will buy games from companies that have proven that they are capable of providing a good game. I haven't once pirated a game by Valve, because I know they are excellent games.
Developers: Produce a good game and you will profit. Half-ass a game and you won't profit. - wynja, on 08/14/2008, -4/+43Okay, let me put this discussion into perspective. When I was in college and broke all the time, I pirated games. I did so because I could not afford said games on my crappy pizza delivery income. Now that I work in corporate America and make a decent living I purchase games. Isn't it amazing how that works?
- sock2828, on 08/14/2008, -8/+44I have no job and I pirate things all the time!
- melkore, on 08/14/2008, -1/+36I know once I had a better paying job I bought more games. I used to pirate quite a few PC titles in the late 90s/early 00s to try but not nearly as much now. The last game I pirated was Call of Duty 4 at a LAN party because I had no intention of buying it or playing it after the LAN was over.
The main difference is, I have a lot less free time to play the games. So now, I purchase the games from developers I want to support and play through them instead of playing a pirated game for an hour then delete it and move onto the next bad game that I found on a website. - saejinn, on 08/15/2008, -11/+45But is it really stealing? If I jumped into your car and drove off with it, that'd be stealing since you would be at a direct loss from my actions. But if I magically duplicated your car and drove off in the clone, you are at no loss.
Same thing could be said about, say, vegetables. Lets say you set up a little booth and were selling vegetables. And I walked over and magically duplicated your carrot and decided to eat the clone instead. Am I really stealing or am I taking advantage of a better offer? I'm not directly doing anything harmful to you, I'm doing something for myself instead. A lot of people take advantage of loop holes in life that allow them to pay less or nothing at all. Should we all be told to stop what we're doing, and pay the fee we dont REALLY have to pay because someone who wants us to pay told us so?
What if the game I copied was retro ware (long out of date and no longer sold)? Should I still have to pay for something the original authors will no profit from? What if I copied a piece of crap that was doomed to fail? Should I still be forced to support a crappy cause? The answers / data is not as clean cut as the word 'stealing' is.
Besides, we all know free can work: The Internet services (pretty much almost every web page out there) along with open source software can provide you with an enterprise-classed operating system, web browser, search engine, movie player, email client, etc. etc. - inactive, on 08/14/2008, -0/+33You are correct. Piracy is mostly an age-related thing, at least for the middle class.
- barcelona10, on 08/14/2008, -9/+40"There’s a theory that well-made games are natural anti-piracy devices—that if a game is “good enough,” people will buy it—or, in turn, if there’s suspicion it won’t be “good enough,” then people will steal it in the name of hedging their bets against spending $50 on a poorly made product."
This is brilliant in theory but I don't think this happens with too much frequency in reality. - renegadeafk, on 08/14/2008, -2/+33If the game is good I will buy it, if I pirate it and it's crappy well, I'll just uninstall it because it sucked (duh)
All the pc games I have installed are legal, including 10 or so games I bought from steam, I also bought crysis, mass effect ect...
I actually like that you don't have to put the disc in when you play mass effect. - solesoul, on 08/15/2008, -3/+30This is a simple problem if you ask me. You will never stop pirates, ever, so stop spending so much time, effort, and money trying to prevent them from stealing your game. It always fails, and only serves to annoy the paying customers (looking at you Mass Effect and Spore), not the people who its supposed to stop. I understand you want some kind of security, but don't go so damn far, because doing so drives more people into piracy. Put the pirates in the same category as the people who would never ever purchase your game. Make the product good enough so that you can sell enough to offset the "loss" of profits caused by pirates, even though loss is a bit of a stretch since most pirates have no intention of playing your game at all unless its free. Even with its awful protection, Mass Effect sold damn well because it was a good game. Try doing that, not just whining and complaining that some people steal.
All that said, I refuse to pay for OR pirate Mass Effect because of that awful DRM. I don't even want to support that by stealing it. - actionscripted, on 08/15/2008, -3/+24It's a fundamental argument: is theft the loss of a sale, or is theft obtaining something for free? The wildcard is that digital theft produces exact copies of the original and an argument can almost always be made about the potential for a sale.
If I pirate a CD/movie/game that I was NEVER going to buy -- for whatever reason -- and my piracy in no way impacts the revenue for a product -- is that stealing?
Well...yes, it is. But much like the word "lie", "theft" doesn't necessarily imply harm. Yes I am stealing, but my theft in no way affects you since I was never going to buy your product in the first place.
So let's start the conversation at, "why does my piracy of a product that does not impact your bottom line one iota concern you so much?" The argument that it's simply because I'm getting something for free is as weak as they come. - noPCtoday, on 08/15/2008, -2/+22PC Game industry need to ban all the 12 year olds
- Klisk, on 08/15/2008, -4/+2250-60 dollars is a small amount? I work full time, and that still feels like a damn LOT of money to me. That's the difference between paying the bills or not.
- soupdawg30, on 08/15/2008, -1/+19I know plenty of people who are just cheap asses and won't buy a game if they can get it free.
- h4mx0r, on 08/15/2008, -4/+20"I'll pirate it, but if the game turns out quite well, I'll buy it"
If you truly do that, then good for you! But I have a gut feeling that a good portion of people who say that are lying. - benologist, on 08/15/2008, -5/+20And feel entitled to more than they have.
- ry4nsm1th, on 08/15/2008, -0/+15Blizzard seems to have a good method. You buy the game and your CD key allows you to go online, but not with two or more computers. If you pirate and use a CD-key generator it will not work online. I assume they only enable the CD-keys online that are already physically printed.
Seeing as most people buy PC games for the online aspect it seems to work out. Even if people can pirate the offline game they are just getting a tease of the potential the game really has since online is much more fun so they are more likely to buy it or a future title. - bmystry, on 08/15/2008, -0/+13Sins of a Solar Empire came out with no DRM yet sold quite well.
- IceX, on 08/15/2008, -1/+14Still doesn't mean you should be getting it for free
- kettlehead, on 08/15/2008, -3/+16I'm much more likely to pirate something when it's legal copy is heavily laden with DRM. Seriously, why should I pay money to get a purposefully crippled product, and by extension, reward business practices I find distasteful? DRM encourages piracy by making the freely (and inevitably) available pirated versions superior to a legal license.
It's utter folly. They're sabotaging themselves. They have to know it on some level, but all they do when it's pointed out to them is stick their fingers in their ears and make unintelligible noises to drown out the logic. - Kingoftherings, on 08/15/2008, -0/+12Its age-related because many teens don't have jobs, or don't make very much.
- ZeMoose, on 08/15/2008, -3/+15If this were the case, then piracy wouldn't be a problem. If you think about it, if it's mainly people with low income who pirate games, then they wouldn't be purchasing the game anyway. The game companies wouldn't be losing money and customers, they'd just be getting free advertising.
In my experience, people pirate games for one of two reasons:
1) They're downloading a game that they expect to play through once and never pick up again; they don't consider this to be enough "bang for their buck" at $50-60. (ie. Bioshock, Crysis)
2) They're downloading retroware, which is either very difficult/impossible to find elsewhere and/or would require paying a lot of money for an outdated console. - Muncher, on 08/15/2008, -0/+12I totally agree. Piracy isn’t theft, but it is wrong; and it does hurt the developers, whether we’re willing to admit it or not.
That said, when publishers take a metaphorical crap on us by implementing invasive DRM and requiring “activation,” they’re just asking for their product to be pirated. - zarcu, on 08/15/2008, -1/+12Valve kicks ass, I don't think there is anyone who would disagree.
- inactive, on 08/14/2008, -1/+12I think people should take responsibility for themselves.
- MrSpiffy, on 08/15/2008, -0/+10Yeah thats my story aswell, however I know someone on twice my salary that still pirates because its free and easy and "to stick it to the man".
- actionscripted, on 08/15/2008, -1/+11I haven't really thought about it until now, but the only games I wouldn't think of pirating are Valve games. And to really suck Gabe Newell's dick: I like that using Steam I don't need to worry about the physical copies of my games once I've registered them.
- madmccoy, on 08/15/2008, -1/+10This is more or less how it worked for me when I still played PC games. Good? Buy. Awful? Delete.
Like most people I quickly learned that demos were typically the BEST part of some truly awful games.
I wouldn't mind shelling out a few bucks to give a game a test-run, though, then pay to unlock the whole thing.
Which is basically how the shareware market used to work.
...
I miss shareware. - Shaflugi, on 08/15/2008, -0/+9^ You obviously don't know the meaning of "middle class"
- swiftekho, on 08/15/2008, -1/+10Cause it is amazing.
- DarkStryke, on 08/15/2008, -4/+12Good games = sales.
***** games relying on marketing = poor sales.
Devs with history of releasing excellent games = big sales.
Devs with history of releasing total ***** games = we will pirate your ***** out of spite. - venomoushealer, on 08/15/2008, -1/+9Total agree. Any game I can purchase at the convenience of my own computer, I will. Steam is awesome. Pay, download, then play.
The only games I pirate are the ones that are older (questionably abandonware..?). The main reason I pirate is for convenience. I don't buy lots of games, and I'll pay for the ones I play. I just don't want to leave my chair. Is that so wrong? - bieber, on 08/15/2008, -2/+10Wow, it only took her two paragraphs to show me how much it wasn't going to be worth it to read the rest of the article. She actually had me thinking she might know what she was talking about, when she said she was going to drop the inaccurate term "pirates," but then she went and replaced it with a slightly-more-acurate, but more biased term. It helps to understand basic concepts of copyright infringement---like, for instance, that it's not the same thing as theft---before you try to write an article about it :/
- Niacin, on 08/15/2008, -1/+9That is the worst comparison I have ever heard.
If a car manufacturer cuts corners and makes a faulty vehicle they can end up killing people, getting their company sued for billions of dollars, and whoever screwed up will be fired and blacklisted for the rest of their life. Similarly, a person stealing a car risks endangering their own and others lives, jail time and a permanent mark on their record as a thug and criminal. The repercussions for immoral actions of the parts of greedy game developers and those pesky pirates aren't in the same league as the automobile examples; hell, they're not even playing tee-ball.
People pirate games for the same reason they pirate movies: the companies will do and say anything to turn a profit, even if it deceives and screws over honest customers. Thieves of all sorts have always occupied society, and they always will. By antagonizing *everybody* it will only serve to create more thieves, until only the most naive few are left paying for a game.
Want to stop people from pirating? Start offering perks for paying for the game. On-line updates, physical figurines or posters or maps, coupons for discounts on future games or subscriptions, something gamers will want enough that, even if they pirate the game initially, a positive interest in it will have them paying full-price just for the little bonus.
It's difficult for people to justify spending $50-$70 on a hobby, especially during hard times, doubly-especially with the magnitude of poorly made games out there, and triply especially when debacles like GameSpot's relationship with "Kane & Lynch" developer Eidos occur. Why take the plunge with such a high risk of disappointment and loss when you can try out the game for a couple hours first and decide if you like it or not?
20 minute demos won't cut it anymore; make us want your game, in its entirety, without having to jump through barbed hoops of DRM or pirate the game just to get a real sense of how good/bad it is. If you want the disillusioned, cynical, apprehensive gamers to step down from pirating, you've got to step up and deliver the goods. - Risingashes, on 08/15/2008, -1/+9I'm like that with Blizzard games. Always well polished and always with great multiplayer support.
- inactive, on 08/15/2008, -5/+13If someone has the spare cash to spend on a game, they'll buy it! If they don't, and they want it, they'll pirate it!
But if they didn't pirate it, they still wouldn't have bought it! So you lose nothing! Okay?
And it's not a loss anyway, it's merely a lack of gain. Copying information is free. - halogenik, on 08/15/2008, -1/+91) she's a bit off about the car analogy. Car dealerships give you time to test-drive cars. You can also rent, and/or lease cars. It's not like the car dealership is giving you 1/8th of the car to test drive and then tell you to make up your mind.
2) if piracy against good games are that rampant, how come Stardock's games, whom have no anti-piracy bloatware have made it to the top sellers list anytime they launch? Oh yeh, that's right: their games are fun and people are willing to pay for them.
3) as far as Cevat Yerli is concerned, the guy is crying over spilled milk. You can't produce a benchmark of a game like Crysis, launch it on a platform that's known for their inability to be impatient when it comes to running their games with everything on high, and not expect it to get pirated. Crysis will be one of those games that will pick up in sales as time goes and technology grows. Right now, Crytek alienated themselves to only one kind of customer: the people that spent all their money on $5,000 rigs just to see how well Crysis will run on them. I don't know how many time's I've heard the phrase "I'll play Crysis once I update my PC because I want to get the full experience."
Live with the choices you make Cevat. If you didn't realize this was going to be a problem, you should have done your homework. - ProjectGSX, on 08/14/2008, -3/+11Same here. I dont have a problem buying the good games. Mass Effect, for instance. Money well spent. Crysis, on the other hand, is almost identical to Far Cry and I just dont see the need to pay for it again. Its not worth the cost, to me. So, I play a copy I ran across while I wait for the next game worth paying for to come out. Im looking forward to Fallout 3, especially. No problems dropping coin on that one.
- TBBucs, on 08/15/2008, -1/+8Why does everything have to be a "community" these days? I just want to play some goddamn video games. I don't have any responsibilities to uphold.
- bmystry, on 08/15/2008, -0/+7I agree with you completely but some people don't understand the concept of copying vs stealing.
- NuclearFriend, on 08/15/2008, -1/+8I have a similar story to this guy. Used to pirate heavily, when I was in University and I had a lot of free time and not much money to spend. Now it's the opposite, I have little free time and surplus money.
- BGog, on 08/15/2008, -0/+7So the deal is that copy protection only hurts those who pay for the game. It messes with legit owners and never stops people from breaking the protection and posting on the web. There really is no point any more. People don't copy from their friends. They download from a professional cracker.
- piwy, on 08/15/2008, -1/+8You seem to forget something here. The numbers quoted when citing "loss" in every piracy stricken industry are based on what ifs. Those what ifs usually boil to: what if all those people actually bought the game? How much money would have been made? They do not account for the fact that most of them would have not bought the game in the first place.
Piracy is probably costing the industry some money, but not more than they would've lost for releasing crap recycled crap every time.
But yah, you do have a point there for reasons people download games. I still pretty much refuse to buy a game if i can't expect myself to play it through more than once. I'm not made of money, and it sure as hell is not growing on my back. - cknyan, on 08/15/2008, -3/+9Stop making ***** games. Games shouldn't take only 5-6 hrs to beat. Games shouldn't be loaded with graphics to cover up the ***** story/gameplay. Games shouldn't be getting ***** ratings just to sell copies. Games shouldn't be rushed to the shelves!!!
- TheTaoOfBill, on 08/15/2008, -0/+6And perhaps so do PC game developers. But it doesn't make it right. If you enjoy the game you should support the people who made it.
I think a lot of game developers are moving to a downloadable market but I still do not feel it will be enough for pirates many of whom will find another reason to justify stealing. - FountainOfTruth, on 08/15/2008, -1/+7I haven't pirated from Valve because Steam makes it so convenient not to. You buy Half-Life 2, they don't care how many computers you install it on. If other companies started doing this, I would stop pirating as much.
- TheTaoOfBill, on 08/15/2008, -3/+9Your car analogy is not exactly the same thing. Because if you somehow copied my car and drove off with it I wouldn't care. This is because I don't sell cars.
Now if I owned a car dealership and instead of buying a car you came in and made a copy of a car and drove it off the lot without paying me you're damn right I'd be pissed.
I'm trying to make a living and you think you are above paying me for my services and paying the company for the car you are driving. - diabolicedict, on 08/15/2008, -0/+6Blizzard's method is an excellent one. I don't understand why other companies chose DRM over that. With that method, the players get to experience the FULL game in standalone, even if they pirate it. No DRM impending them.
The only difference is, only those who bought it will have access to FREE online competitive/ladder/forum/ranking network called Battle.net. It really gives a powerful incentive to buy it for that alone.
It also doesn't hurt Blizzard that they keep producing these excellent quality games. Think of Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft series, all of those games have Battle.net support. - BBWolf, on 08/15/2008, -0/+5My Son gave me a Pirated copy of ROME-Total War, I tried it, Loved it and bought it.
I Also bought Assassins Creed, but I haven't played it after about the 6-7Th mission. Why? While the game Starts great it does not continue to BE great. Other than the graphics of the cities being different, the missions are the same and it became seriously boring. Add the Boring factor to the fact that most gamers have a life with a limited amount of time, and you could be playing a Mod on Oblivion, Stalker, HL2 or CoD4, NwN2, Crysis or a dozen others instead and its no secret why sales have fallen off.
Gamers msg other gamers, blog and research new games and it does not take long for the word (Good or Bad) about any game to get out. - inactive, on 08/15/2008, -1/+6False analogy. If you could make an infinite number of copies of that house, for free, then you'd be closer to an accurate analogy.
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