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New TF2 Stats Released by Valve (Including death heat maps)

steampowered.com — TF2 includes a reporting mechanism which tells us details about how people are playing the game. We're sharing the data we collect because we think people will find it interesting, and because we expect to spot emergent problems earlier, and ultimately build better products and experiences as a result.

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  • Spetz, on 12/09/2007, -1/+36MP heat maps are something I've wanted to see for quite a while now. They're cool, but most of the time they are predictable with all the main choke points and objectives coming up, but they do throw up a few surprises.
    • lava, on 12/09/2007, -4/+12I'm surprised at the 2fort heat map, I thought most people died on the bridge or the "patio" of each fort.

      By the way, if you want to play with a fellow digger, friend me on steam. My username is lava
    • unearth, on 12/10/2007, -0/+4I'm surprised by seeing that people actually die on control points. My team is usually hiding in a corner when we lose, not rushing to their deaths like they should be.
    • Evi1d33d, on 12/10/2007, -0/+3On Granary there are two light spots right of the middle point, I wonder how it got there.
  • Rikushix, on 12/09/2007, -1/+13These are pretty cool. Have they ever done this for HL2: DM? If so, I'd like to see them.
    • pyrotechnick, on 12/09/2007, -0/+5It's not really possible because there isn't the mechanism in place in Hl2:DM to collect and submit the raw data required for such statistics.
      • pegisys, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1It's not built in but it can be done. HLstatsX(and many other mods) offers similar stats but for player rankings. The data can be recorded it would just have to be tallied differently
  • lava, on 12/09/2007, -0/+150Wow, seriously? Most people play as scouts? I would have thought soldier or engineer. And the least popular one is medic. I knew it.. there's never enough ***** medics.
    • lordtyros, on 12/09/2007, -0/+63Baseball batting a heavy to death via high-speed circlestrafe is funnier than *****.
      • MalDON, on 12/09/2007, -0/+16The baseball bat is such an awesome weapon. When the person see's you coming they are thinking to themselves "Ah *****..."
      • NTolerance, on 12/09/2007, -0/+19If you do that the scout says "eat it, fatty!"
    • Vzylexy, on 12/09/2007, -0/+29The Scout is a very powerful class if you know how to use them properly, and yes, circlestrafing a Heavy and batting him to death is the best form of entertainment.
    • f4nt0m4s, on 12/09/2007, -0/+8my favorite scout quote is "Makin' bacon!" after you beat someone down, i definitely got a few LOLs after that
      the scout's shotgun is insane when you combine it with the scout's ridiculous speed
    • Asianwaste, on 12/09/2007, -0/+8Hey, nice shootin' there tough guy!
    • bossm4n, on 12/09/2007, -0/+17I actually love playing medic. And nothing is as gratifying as a bonesaw kill.
      • Asianwaste, on 12/09/2007, -2/+1Not true: Destroying a sentry with a needle gun XD
    • LusikkaMage, on 12/09/2007, -0/+4Dunno why, but I prefer playing as medic. Even when I'm trying to kill stuff. o_o
    • JoeViturbo, on 12/09/2007, -3/+2I R Medic
    • Velnich, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2I would have guessed soldier and pyro. What happened to the easy mode hwguys? Part of me thinks the scout is a tad on the OP side atm while the spy just a tad on the underpowered end.

      Also, Cloak is cool, but I miss FD.
  • gypsi, on 12/09/2007, -0/+37here's a tip to people who wonder why there's aren't enough medics. less people like to play them, and medics are generally treated like *****
    • gmiley, on 12/09/2007, -2/+33I don't know what you're talking about, I love playing medic, and 90% of the time while I am playing said medic, people listen to me when I give orders over voice chat. I rarely have people stray too far away from me which gives me all the cover I need. People know that if they stick with a medic long enough they will get the ubercharge shield, then it's ***** smack-down-city.
      • MalDON, on 12/09/2007, -0/+17The problem is there is equally the same amount of people who think it's overcharge and don't know what to do with it, like run back to base when you uber them. I've seen some medics be treated as a person's bitch.
      • Nickface, on 12/09/2007, -2/+13And when the person runs off into a room full of sentries and gets cut down almost immediately, it's not their fault because they rushed it, it's the "retard medic" for not "doing his job."

        Being blamed for other people's failures and getting cursed out and insulted are the biggest reasons I don't play as a medic.
    • asdfrewq, on 12/09/2007, -0/+15I'm a little surprised that medics don't rate higher in the average points chart. It seems to me that a good medic, will generally score at or close to the top of their team. On the other hand, most people who chose medic don't seem to be all that good at it anyway. Running out of cover when their medigun will easily reach it's target, using uber too soon or holding it too long, or trying to heal the whole team all the time (pick one or two decent players and stick with them, heal others only when you have the chance... they'll understand ;)

      Personally, I always have a blast playing medic, especially if i'm on a team that understands the medics role and plays accordingly.

      • a3r0, on 12/09/2007, -0/+4Yea, medic is really easy for points. If I start the round as medic and stick with the top players, I end up with the most points without even trying. I just wish people would be more careful so I could charge ubers without them running away into a pile of sentries and getting killed.
    • ez12a, on 12/09/2007, -0/+15people who play medic have to understand it isnt about the # of kills.
      • ice101a, on 12/09/2007, -1/+5To score high stats as a medic and actually help your team, you need to heal the good players on your team only. Don't waste time with the guy who's been playing for 30 minutes and only has 8 points.
    • rAid135, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1yea but now thats why valve is rolling out a bunch of achievements for medics to get more people to play as them
    • animeguru, on 12/10/2007, -0/+5On all maps aside from 2Fort, I pretty much play medic exclusively. I tend to play engineer on 2Fort unless there are already too many of them.

      That said, I wholeheartedly agree that medics are treated like ***** for the most part. I tend to have people regard me very highly because if I'm playing as a medic, 9 times out of 10 I will have the highest score for the map; I'm pretty damned good as one.

      There are always a few who want to be assholes though. I'll let it slide if they make an offhanded comment once, people get frustrated when they die. However, if I find that someone wants to bad mouth me or can't be bothered to turn around and keep me from dying from the scout that came up behind us time after time, I just stop healing them for the rest of the match. ***** 'em. Medics win matches and good players know that. Those are the ones worth keeping alive.

      I don't think that medics are the best class, a good balance to your team is the best, but a couple of medics on one team and none on the other almost always mean victory.
    • unearth, on 12/10/2007, -3/+4The reason I rarely play medic is that I'm too good at the game, whereas my entire team bought it yesterday. Why should I be healing clueless saps, when instead, they could be healing me?

      If my team is pro, I have no qualms about healing, though.
    • joegibes, on 12/10/2007, -2/+1I hate medic so much, but I'm so good at it and I have ~5 hours of medic time (compared to ~45 mins for the other classes). I also had ~10,000 healing points and 24 points in one round... And FOUR ubers.
  • h4mx0r, on 12/09/2007, -0/+14Some fairly interesting stats, although most of them are expected, like Engineers have the longest life span, Medics get most assist points, etc. etc.
    Although I did find it weird that Scouts were relatively low on damage output/kills because they are actually pretty good. Just really fast, kinda like playing Unreal Tournament except with a shotgun. Obviously they have the highest flag cap though...
    • lordtyros, on 12/09/2007, -2/+9Scouts are pretty ***** easy to kill if you have any aiming skill. Staying alive as a Scout really depends less on your skill than it does on the incompetence of your enemies.
      • Lyph5, on 12/09/2007, -0/+6The best thing in the world is tracking a scout running across the roof of the bridge and sniping him in the face as he tries to make the final jump to your balcony.
        • joegibes, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2Yes, right after they double-jump, when there's no way they can avoid it...
        • bigfatpaulie, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Careful of that other sniper on your balcony. He's a spy.
    • gmiley, on 12/09/2007, -2/+1I can remember back in original TF/MegaTF, I loved playing a scout - I was a ***** menace with the knife. Even heavys feared me. I don't particularly like it quite as much in TF2, but it is still a fun class. I tend to enjoy Medic, Eng, and Sniper the most now.
    • lava, on 12/09/2007, -4/+2I've never understood why people play scout. They always get owned by my sentries. But I guess they're more effective than I thought they were.
    • onionoino, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1If you have good reflexes and can think quickly then you can do well with the scout. You just have to remember that its the speed that is your biggest advantage, always keep moving. It is also amazing fun rush a couple soldiers in the 2fort sewers, dodging rockets till you get in close and finish them off with the scattergun, or the bat.
  • wileyAU, on 12/09/2007, -0/+55The strangest thing to me is that the blue team has a greater winning percentage on 2fort. I mean, on control point maps, you can see how there would be certain imbalances toward the offense or defense, but 2fort is a mirror between the two sides!
    • lava, on 12/09/2007, -0/+19Blue spies definitely have the edge in 2fort. There's two good places to hide: right in front of the red fort (there's two boxes that hide you from the sides) and right outside red's sewer stairs (the boxes there are tall enough to hide you).
    • TrevorBradley, on 12/09/2007, -0/+3I was on a server last night where someone commented on this... Blue was winning 2fort more often than red. We figured it was co-incidence, but these stats bear that out.

      The only thing I can think of is that clans who operate servers have a preference for playing blue, and they're frequently better players. Or there's some hidden "handshake" that only the best players choose blue. The map itself look pretty symmetrical, except for the stairs up from the sewers... Red deathtrap in the Blue sewers, it seems.
      • joegibes, on 12/10/2007, -0/+9I choose auto-select EVERY TIME... I wish more people would as well.
      • thepotatoman, on 12/10/2007, -0/+5auto-select defaults to blue if the teams are even, thats probably why blue is the overwelmingly the winner in the three symmetrical maps. A lot of people play on maps with as little as 9 people in them, or even as little as 3. Having one more person on blue in those situations really help.

        Actually now that I think about it, the servers with 3 or 5 people usually have the rounds end more quickly, with blue probably winning most of the time assuming everyone auto selects.
    • centran, on 12/09/2007, -1/+2Some people prefer certain team. It seems like the good players like to be blue.
    • gmiley, on 12/09/2007, -2/+12These stats only seem to be over a 7 day period. I would chalk that up to a statistical anomaly. I bet it would even itself out over a larger time-span, say a couple months.
    • MalDON, on 12/09/2007, -1/+2I think that just more people like blue, and in turn the better players choose blue.
    • lava, on 12/09/2007, -0/+10Seriously guys, the forts are not "identical". There are little spaces on Red's fort that let people hide better.
    • saifatlast, on 12/09/2007, -11/+112fort, more like bluefort, AMIRITE?
    • animeguru, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1About the only thing that I would say is that personally, I find it easier to see snipers on red than on blue. That could result in blue snipers living slightly longer than their red counterparts, thus meaning they'll tend to have a higher kill to death ratio.
    • Ranneko, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1I know that personally, the arrangements I have with friends is that when joining a server or have a new game start, we all go blue.

      This could just be an isolated case, but if you have groups of people doing this, then you are more likely to have a better organised team, and a better organised team is typically a winning team.
    • onionoino, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1I always pick red for some reason and in 2fort it seems red always get owned. I play a lot of 2fort and it seems red loses constantly. Blue team players generally seem to have more skill and are better coordinated.
      • kevyn, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1I just thought that red would blend in the the background a bit more than blue... obviously thats not quite the case here
    • Aldrenean, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1It's not just 2Fort, all the maps except Dustbowl and Gravelpit (the only non-symmetrical maps) have a slightly higher percentage of Blu wins. I don't know about the other maps, but 2Fort does have some slight imbalances, although the Blu fort has its weaknesses too, my favorite being the fact that you can see under the corrugated siding on the right side of the fort when you're sniping from the Red base entrance. You can see people's feet, thus giving you a crucial second's warning before squeezing off that round, or letting you see spies before they fully cloak.
  • albinorhino101, on 12/09/2007, -4/+4This is pretty awesome, some of the stats were not what I expected
  • wileyAU, on 12/09/2007, -13/+7The thing that surprises me most is that the blue team is favored in 2fort. I mean, in a control point map, you could see how the offense or defense might be favored, but 2fort is mirrored between the two sides!
    • bleys, on 12/09/2007, -1/+9There is asymmetry on gravelpit and dustbowl -- the blue team is attacking, the red team is defending. This may subconsciously bias aggressive players towards picking blue, and rushing is generally a good strategy in 2fort.
    • angers, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2that's true, prehaps players that are of higher skill level prefer to play on the blue side of the maps...
    • unearth, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2I have a good theory as to why the blue team wins more maps:

      When you're choosing a team, and you hit tab to look at the players and game info, after you release, your mouse cursor automatically gets moved to the blue team's door. This could effectively add more players to the blue team in every game. Even one player, as long as they don't suck, makes a difference.
  • Jforsyth89, on 12/09/2007, -1/+25This is very impressive and interesting to look at. I especially like the death maps at the bottom of the page.

    I hope Valve releases some stats like these for CS:S
    • valkyries, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2there are so many maps in CS:S i wouldnt want to be the intern that had to do that research.
    • active1x0, on 12/10/2007, -1/+1Hi it's almost 2008, no one plays CSS anymore. Unless they're like 12 years old and/or have a mic so they can talk *****.
      • valkyries, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1lots of people still play CS:S, CS was one of the biggest games ever.
  • Unsanity, on 12/09/2007, -0/+11I'm kind of curious to find out why the fireaxe damage distance is so much greater than the other melee weapons...Maybe I'm missing something obvious but it seems like it would be the same.
    • Remmiz, on 12/09/2007, -2/+1Except for the fact that it is longer than any of the melee weapons...maybe except the shovel and bat.
    • Loonacy, on 12/09/2007, -0/+5What I wanna know is who uses the "Club" that is in those stats?
      • MrObjectional, on 12/10/2007, -1/+2Maybe the European version of the scout?
      • TridenTBoy, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Sniper, I thought it'd be a machete but they call it a club apparently.
    • Gudlyf, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Speaking of damage distance, look at the worst weapon there: the medic's syringe gun. God that thing really is a piece of *****. Even the scout's bat beats it in distance damage.
  • Durinthal, on 12/09/2007, -0/+15I just started playing TF2 in the past couple of weeks (never played any previous version), and I have to say it's a lot of fun even without a wide variety of maps available. As a Pyro, ambushing people when they pop around a corner is great.
    • bossm4n, on 12/09/2007, -4/+2"Without a wide variety of maps available?"
      WTF are you talking about. There are more custom and modded maps in TF2 than just about any online game I can recall.
      • Durinthal, on 12/09/2007, -0/+3I was talking about ones that came with the game, but okay.. Where are they? I haven't seen more than a dozen maps total yet.
        • BugMeNot2, on 12/10/2007, -1/+2Lazytown, Orange, Science, Floodzone, Castle, Toy Fort (I love this map), Box Killer, Turbine, Labor, Impact, Warpath, Wolf, Battle Creek, Mach, and, in my opinion, a bunch of ***** maps from the 420 clan, to name a few.

          TF2 custom maps:
          http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/games/297
          • DarkSorrow, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Thank god you didnt name Stronghold... that the ***** map i ever went. because that map is too one sided. once the eng and soldier took control of underground tunnel, you basically screwed. one time, the SM msg went up and said time to vote a map which to go. so most of us vote stronghold. so Warpath is done and move on to Stronghold. when the map loaded and player saw the map.... 12 player less than 5 sec entered the map.... rtv-ed (rock the vote) instantly. i rtv-ed as well. it would be nice if Stronghold map disappeared from the face of the earth. it poorly designed, even the map look even side, but once you play it, you will found out it really one-sided.
      • quomen, on 12/10/2007, -0/+3You've never played counterstrike?
  • Mpwns, on 12/09/2007, -2/+3i would like to see them rank player stats, it would be nice to know how i compare to everyone else.
    • jacenat, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1there are no rank stats.
    • Velnich, on 12/10/2007, -1/+1Rank stats are too much of a motivation to cheat. Look what it did to Halo 2.
      • Mpwns, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1never played halo games

        /never played ff7 as well
      • Velnich, on 12/10/2007, -1/+1Halo 2 spent months riddled with cheaters. Sure some were in it just to ***** people off, but many were desperate to obtain high ranks to brag about. No ranking or a hidden one just for match making = less cheaters.
  • jt18, on 12/09/2007, -3/+61Only 2.1% of people have the "With Friends Like These" achievement... its probably the hardest one to get since it involves skills outside of gaming.
    • PhrosTT, on 12/09/2007, -3/+14i get in a so many lobbies where people are saying everybody should mutually friend each other so they all get that acheivement - i tend to not friend them as it's stupid and acheivement points have an inverse relationship with real life acheivement.
    • JoeViturbo, on 12/09/2007, -0/+3I was playing a map and we all decided to friend each other during the round just to get the acheivement. they are still on my friends list although I can't remember the last time I played with any of them.
    • joegibes, on 12/10/2007, -1/+1...and it's not like achievements in TF2 enlarge your e-penis at all; there's no gamerscore or anything.
    • BenKenobi88, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1It's hard to get everybody on the same team...I've got enough friends for that achievement...but getting 8 or so of them to play on the same server on the same team is difficult.
    • graeh, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1My friends and I were quite surprised that was the least completed achievement.
      I was certain it would be the "10 kills with 1 sentry". It's the only one I don't have - I can never seem to get more than 3 or 4 kills with my sentry before it gets pwned. It makes me die inside, just a little :(
  • Flyan, on 12/09/2007, -2/+3hahaha i love playing medic
  • CompIsMyRx, on 12/09/2007, -1/+10I always thought red won more often on dustbowl. Now I know I'm not crazy.
  • Lax32, on 12/09/2007, -9/+6The only problem I have with TF2 is that over Xbox live its always really laggy.
    • llamaguy132, on 12/09/2007, -1/+8then play it on PC!
    • pileofstraw, on 12/10/2007, -2/+3xbox? oh, just learnt something. Do XBOX paleyers get mixed up with PC players online? please don't bury me!!! hehe
  • ShadowMarth, on 12/09/2007, -0/+3There's something up with the stat-keeping. I stopped playing for a couple weeks, got back on, my stats are all messed up. Like the time it has recorded for Heavy is less than a minute, despite 16 kills being my max with it. I never played heavy much, but I know I played more than a minute. And my Demo and Engineer stats are all screwed up. Something is up.
  • PhrosTT, on 12/09/2007, -10/+2i was really surprised about the scout thing, altho i must admit i had just started getting really into the scout. the handgun isn't that bad if u have good button mashing speed. and the speed and double jump make him impossible to hit. especially if you map jump to an L-button so you can dance around people.

    the only downside is you're completely SOL if there's a turret in your way.
    • triblinator, on 12/09/2007, -3/+13Lol! "Button Mash" "L-button" - play pc, loser.
  • d3sp, on 12/09/2007, -1/+10The only class I play is Medic, hate everything else. Get a friend that's an awesome heavy and just roll their team.
  • Asianwaste, on 12/09/2007, -1/+15Didn't know the bonesaw had such a high crit rate. I figured it was just damn powerful
    • JoeViturbo, on 12/09/2007, -0/+6Gonna have to put away my Health Gun and pull out my Bonesaw more often I guess.
      • joegibes, on 12/10/2007, -0/+3No, keep healing people; your team appreciates it.
  • manmademark, on 12/09/2007, -6/+32Valve and nintendo are the last two respectable gaming companies. Even if they don't listen to everything people say in their forums (mostly because its whining) they still keep in touch with the community with stats like these. They're probably going to release a few new maps as they did with CS:S when it first hit the market, and as a bonus they're giving us these new achievements. It's safe to say this company has its finger on the pulse.
    • sgtfuzzy, on 12/10/2007, -3/+4Doesn't Bungie do the same? They have up to date stats on almost anything you can want to know, and they had it before Valve put these out. And doesn't Bungie also support its games with DLC? Correct me if I'm wrong please.
      • heartless_, on 12/10/2007, -1/+5Bungie does a good job, but they didn't do it until they had a machine to print money installed in their office.
    • Yeknom, on 12/10/2007, -0/+4Cool thing about valve is, all of the extra content is FREE.
    • iloveGod08, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2Add Blizzard to that list ^^
    • RandomSkratch, on 12/11/2007, -1/+1"It's safe to say this company has its finger on the pulse."
      Looks like somebody just read the article about switching from Windows to Linux....
  • max420, on 12/09/2007, -2/+16This is really cool. I love how Valve tracks all these stats. They are really interesting to go over once compiled. More game companies should do this. Not only for fans who may be interested, but this stuff must be pure gold to developers.
    • ScionX, on 12/09/2007, -1/+10Bungie does this as well
      • Juntistik, on 12/09/2007, -1/+2yeah there was an article the other day with bungie heatmap stats its a really cool feature.


        ...But who cares about halo3 Its just overrated and exactly like halo 2 and the graphics are terrible. Bungie is a ***** company and valve is so much better. Microsoft sucks and mouse and keyboard is so much better...

        /sarcasm
  • Henron, on 12/09/2007, -0/+7I ALWAYS play as Medic unless there's 4 or 5 on the team, it's just so fun to me.
  • bblande, on 12/09/2007, -16/+1I like this game but am disappointed it's the same game I've been playing for the past 10 years with a fresh coat of paint.
  • fluffyturtle, on 12/09/2007, -0/+8The sniper stats don't surprise me, it is like that in pretty much every game that has a sniper class.
  • Barbega, on 12/09/2007, -1/+52I love how valve do stuff like this, it sho...SPIES SAPPING MY SENTRY!
    • OJXs, on 12/10/2007, -17/+1zapping :)
      • AttackingHobo, on 12/10/2007, -0/+11No, the spy has an "Electro Sapper" not and "Electro Zapper."
    • macrymble, on 12/10/2007, -0/+9i think you mean, "SPIES SAPPIN' MAH SENTRY!"
    • Yeknom, on 12/10/2007, -0/+3YIPPEE KEYIEYHEH KIIIIIO!!!!1! /dance
    • TripcodeMel, on 12/10/2007, -1/+3GOD DAMN SPIES DESTROY EVERYTHING I CREATE
  • LittleDas, on 12/09/2007, -1/+9I wonder if they have stats like these for the 360 version, it'd be real interesting to compare them.
  • wutitang, on 12/09/2007, -6/+5so basically the sniper kicks ass.
    • hooksie, on 12/09/2007, -1/+6Don't bother, everyone hates us snipers.
    • unearth, on 12/10/2007, -1/+2The noob snipers give all snipers a bad name. I'll be on offense and headshot half of their team, and then when we don't cap the point, they blame it on the sniper, just for being a sniper. Discrimination.
      • graeh, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2Indeed - how often do you go offensive on dustbowl - clear out their entire defense by shooting them in the face - only for your team to fail to capitalise and you get blamed for being a waste of a class.
  • halfemptyfilms, on 12/09/2007, -10/+2If anyone wants to play on XBL my Gamertag is the same as my digg username (omg original!)
  • Dracomantis, on 12/09/2007, -31/+1These are just not as high quality as the Halo3 versions (way to TRY to steal ideas...and FAIL)
    • LusikkaMage, on 12/09/2007, -2/+9Because recording statistics is something Microsoft invented.
    • bossm4n, on 12/09/2007, -4/+28Get that weak ass console FPS ***** outta here. Real gamers are talking.
      • dafin0, on 12/09/2007, -4/+3but but TF2 is on 360 as well

        anyway bury for dissing somthing most games should have
      • Juntistik, on 12/09/2007, -6/+3I wouldn't consider a person who shuns an entire console(s) genre a "Real Gamer"
        • SuperCow1127, on 12/10/2007, -1/+2I can't wait till we have a cross platform FPS, and the PC gamers make all you couch potatoes STFU.
          • Gerz1219, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Just of curiosity, I hooked up my 360 controller to my HTPC a few days ago and spent a couple hours playing TF2 online. In order to compensate for the aiming inaccuracy, I mostly stuck to Pyro and Heavy, and got about 80% of my normal points. The gamepad is definitely a liability, but there's really no reason they couldn't have cross-platform servers, as long as they were kept separate from the PC-only crowd. I also completely suck with a gamepad, so I'd wager that people who are actually good at Halo would probably own a decent percentage of mediocre PC gamers.
        • Juntistik, on 12/12/2007, -1/+1You mouse and keyboard players get the notion thats its physically impossible to be skillful with a controller. Sure its not as easy as mouse and keyboard but thats part of the fun FOR ME. I know for a FACT I could keep pace with PC players with sticks. Believe it or not but that is the truth.
  • ice101a, on 12/09/2007, -0/+23No love for the Pyro??
    • yohnstoppable, on 12/10/2007, -0/+8No joke. I love running into the enemy spawn on dustbowl and setting them all on fire as the game starts.
    • Gizza, on 12/10/2007, -0/+3The thing i wonder about is that Pyro ranks last for "Average damage per hit per weapon". Now this could simply be that a Pyro "hit" in for a couple of ms or something like that and one jet gets like 20 hits. It should state somewhere how this works.
      • lime148, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1One flamethrower hit = one ammo used up.
      • ice101a, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1I think it also has to do with how close you are. The nearer he is to his opponent, the more damage the Pyro does. I guess, he's able to concentrate more of the flame on the enemy. Most people don't know how to play Pyro properly. They just try to flame from far away way too early. As an opposing player, you just need to back up a bit and shoot the sucker.
  • JoeViturbo, on 12/09/2007, -0/+4Anyone else study the maps to see where the safest/most dangerous places on the map were? Or was it just me? So far I heven't had any breakthroughs though. If anyone sees anything more profound than "standing on control points gets you killed" let me know.
    Oh yeah, I also have all of the acheivements so I'm in that 2.1%
    • DarkSorrow, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1i studies the map as well. i always look around for best place to put sentries and disp as the same location since i most of the time keep the sentry alive with uber heavy. i tend to put sentry front of me, then disp behind me. so that way sentry can protect me and i protect the disp, while disp healing me and giving me metal, while i fixing the sentry. most of the time when i do this, many player have a hard time kill my sentry. they didnt realize they have to kill the guy behind the sentry to stop fixing the sentry. And i studies the map to find a good spot to surprise them while protecting the CP at the same time. i found a good place to surprise in a few map like Labor, TF2 Well and few other. im still working on finding Turbine for good spot.
    • Mattie, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Only thing I noticed in well is that cp_well has a higher heatmap for the red team's spawn. This backs up the idea that blue wins more often (somehow) on that map.
      gravelpit point A is either (a) harder to defend or (b) too hard to defend.
      Setting up surprise defensive positions outside of those red zones is either (a) a great idea or (b) worthless.
  • NeverReturnKid, on 12/09/2007, -13/+3I miss grenades.
  • enclave2, on 12/09/2007, -3/+2Does any one know how they create those graph? I'm not talking about how they gather the data for the graphs, but actually creating those things. They're all images so I doubt their php, but I'm not sure what else it could be. I could use some nice graph generator code like that for a project I'm working on.
    • gbro, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1It could be Matlab, but thats rather expensive unless you're a student.
  • Rickler, on 12/09/2007, -5/+17Everyone hates granary!
    • iloveGod08, on 12/10/2007, -0/+3Granary feels like an enlarged version of Well, but Well is more fun imo.
  • ExplosiveDuck, on 12/09/2007, -3/+16Valve really just does things right over and over again.
    TF2 is so polished, so fun.
    Here's to hoping we get some new maps in the next couple weeks.
  • JoeViturbo, on 12/09/2007, -0/+3I like how it shows the Syringe Gun having an average damage distance below all of the melee weapons. I think it should at least get like an extra inch or something above a melee weapon, but what do I know.
  • erll, on 12/09/2007, -8/+1Funny to see how the average lifetime for most classes are arount 30 seconds. Says a lot about the game.
    • onionoino, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1It does actually, the game is fun and engaging enough that dieing a lot does little to subtract from the overall gameplay experience. Its not about how long you stay alive, its about what you do in the time that you are alive that determines the outcome of a game and your contribution to the team.
  • Juntistik, on 12/09/2007, -13/+3bungie does this for Halo 3 as well :)

    http://www.bungie.net/Online/Heatmaps.aspx
    • soot, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Bah! Halo 3, Schmalo 3.
    • eastbeast314, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Don't mention the H-word here unless you want to get buried ;)
      • Juntistik, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1Personally I don't let stuck up PC gamers on a high horse stop me from making a comment. Its just a ***** game people need to get the ***** over it. I can guarantee you ALOT of halo haters have never even picked up the game or was never going to give it a fair trial in the beginning. It's just a bandwagon everyone jumps on for reasons I don't really know why...
  • yohnstoppable, on 12/10/2007, -0/+17They should do a chart about how much people bitch when a certain map comes up. 2fort would win that by a landslide
  • TapeLoading, on 12/10/2007, -4/+1I wonder why medic is my first class on this game... maybe i play it as a team, rather than most of the people.
    I just love when i pwn n00bs with my musical bone saw
    "Woops! Zat was not medicine."
    • DarkSorrow, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1i pick medic as a first class. im a team player through, that might be the reason why i pick it. i didnt know how to uber for a hour..... until someone finally told me to uber... i was like what the hell is uber, they told me to click right button and i was like... OHHH the shiny red superman! after i learned about uber, i become one of the best medic
      • TapeLoading, on 12/11/2007, -0/+0It seems not leet worthy to play as a Medic, but honestly i dont give dam!
        My bone saw is music to the noobs.
        I think people only play as a team when they play in clan wars...on public servers it's more or less everyone on their own!That is a shame...there should be a class limit on public servers as well
  • Efflux, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Can some one tell me who has the Club. It is in most of the stats and Iv'e racked my head to figure it out.
    • Efflux, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2Ahh it just came to me, Its the Kirkri that the sniper uses. Because that isnt in any of the stats
      • crazymunch, on 12/10/2007, -1/+2The Sniper Uses a Machete...
        • om3ganet, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2kill someone with it and it says "club" in the console
    • whorunbartertwn, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1It's not the scout's club?
    • kevyn, on 12/10/2007, -0/+2no thats the cub scouts
  • whorunbartertwn, on 12/10/2007, -0/+0I usually go medic too, mainly because when I jump online that's what the team usually needs. If there are enough medics I go soldier, one can kick much ass on a roll with soldier.

    True on points about medic above... they are usually underrepresented, if you get a team with three good medics they can usually throw together some unstoppable assaults regardless of sentries etc.

    • onionoino, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1A few medics can do a lot for their team. Its really frustrating though when you keep your guy alive right up to the point where he makes a dumb move like popping out into the view of a turret and then standing their exchanging fire with it till it kills him.
  • exformation, on 12/10/2007, -1/+2i wonder why blue wins more than red in 2fort, granary, and well. because i'm pretty sure those maps are roughly symmetrical.
  • ibecerfoozled, on 12/10/2007, -0/+4is it just me or are people dying in places u cant get to in granary?
    • kevyn, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1yeah I really want to know where those 2 dots came from... -anyone got any ideas?
      • TripcodeMel, on 12/11/2007, -0/+0Bodies being thrown through the map, maybe? I've seen people thrown through chain-link fences on Granary, windows in the intel rooms on 2fort..
  • xaphoo, on 12/10/2007, -1/+1Why does blue win far more than red in 2fort? That's a real question.
    • JoeViturbo, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1The implication is that people who are good at this type of game also have a preference for the color blue, or at least playing an avatar clothed in blue when the only other option is being clothed in red. Or perhaps red stands-out more against the background making those on red team easier targets. Just some theories.
    • matts009, on 12/10/2007, -0/+3Their base is more technologically advanced... red is still in farmland...
  • Cytomax, on 12/10/2007, -1/+0IMHO
    Blue wins more than red because they the game hasnt been out long enough...
    This in turn means that the sample size isnt big enough..
    Wait a few more months and then check back and see if it is even once you have more samples...
    just my 2 cents
    Eddie
    • xaphoo, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1I don't know, I think the sample size is huge enough already. Let's lowball it and say that 3/4 of the servers play 2fort once a day. Let's say there are about 400 servers at any given moment with a decent number of players (that too is probably an underestimation). This way it means that there are about 300 2fort games a day; in a week there are 2100. Just for comparison, most election polling uses less than 1000 in order to achieve a 10% confidence margin of 2 or 3 percent. The game has been released for something like 8 or 10 weeks now; 21,000 or thereabouts is a most excellent sample size.
    • Mattie, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Many of the maps are subtly different for each color.

      For example, on 2fort, a demoman can grenade (over the roof) from the red sniper deck into the red ramp room. Whereas from the blue sniper deck you can grenade into the room above the spiral stairs but not into the ramp room.

      Still, it's hard to see why there's such a big difference between blue/red wins on cp_well.
  • ToasTeh, on 12/10/2007, -1/+1Just a thought in terms of the Bungie and Valve and who provides better for thier community - Bungie has only started to do this once thier cash started rolling in and mainly using features from the other massivly popular online FPS counter strike. That and valve also predated the recording feature for halo3 when they first developed HLTV years back. My only gripe with Valve is they haven't catered for thier most hardcore / talented fans by sticking in hard achievements to boot. Checked them once after buying the game and when I re-checked a week later expecting to see what was left, there wasn't. Can they really expect PC users who invested some serious hours in TFC to not cain the nublets running about? Don't get me wrong apart from the fact its slightly better balanced and looks great, its the same game.
  • Veni_Vidi_Vici, on 12/10/2007, -1/+4IMO, the thing that separates Valve from the rest of the gaming industry is their natural ability to respond to players performance.

    Take, for example, Half-life 2: Episode 1. After its release, Valve compiled data for its gameplay, and they discovered that players spent an abnormally long amount of time in the area by the long elevator that takes you to the surface. As a response, they decreased the time it takes for the elevator to come down and took out a few zombies. As a result, that particular portion of the game became more enjoyable because it went by faster.

    Valve is following the same model with TF2. They are looking at which player classes, maps, teams are played most (i.e. blue wins more than red in 2fort). They compare it with what they expected, and then they update the game accordingly to make it a more fair and balanced game. I think this is a great business model for any gaming company, it's just too bad more don't practice it.
    • kevyn, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1I wish they didn't change that part... I find the most enjoyable parts of HL games are when you meet a tough situation, and die a few times before finally battling through it and winning. HL2-E1 didn't have enough of these battles in it IMO
  • Velnich, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1I miss some of the complicities in TFC that were left out of TF2. I liked the demo's super bomb and how it interacted with some maps. I liked grenades in general even if I hated the spam. Conc jumping was cool and it was neat to see where some engies would end up building their guns. FD could be frustrating when people learned to stand on you and wack away with the crowbar, but it also made the spy something of a game of wits. Playing a spy you became something of a psychologist watching and mimicking enemy behavior or picking the right times/places to FD. Have cloak only seems to have made the spy far more straight forward, even if I love the new sapper weapon and their speedy disguise changes.
    • DarkSorrow, on 12/10/2007, -1/+1i would love to limited the sapper use.... it too unlimited for Eng to handle. a few time, there is two sentry in a corner and happens that it too crowded with other classes. then one of the spies keep sapping everything while engs working on removing those sappers. but the big issue is the spy got stuck in the corner where we cant reach him, so he keep sapping everything after we remove the sappers. i know sapper is useful but need to limit its use. like putting the sapper on cooldown after it used 5 times or less.
      • Velnich, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1A cool down isn't really necessary. If you don't have team mates near by to take out the spy while you're killing the sappers, you just have to be ready to kill the spy first before you save your stuff. A 3rd lvl sentry gun can last for a bit with a sapper on it.
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