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395 Comments
- Stavrosian, on 11/29/2008, -34/+439"Hey Nico, it's your cousin. Want to go bowling?"
"I'd love to, but I've got to spend tonight reformatting my hard drive and reinstalling my OS to get rid of this DRM-ridden hunk of *****."
Nice going, Rockstar. Get *****. - Mejogid, on 11/29/2008, -5/+175What happens in 10 years time when you want to replay a classic but are unable to because the activation server has been taken offline?
This will do very little to curb piracy. It may stop a kid running off a copy for his friend, but could equally push one or both of them towards online piracy - if somebody wants PC game for free, they'll get it one way or another. Those of us who prefer to pay and support developers are the ones who ultimately stand to suffer. - CVL4317, on 11/29/2008, -4/+138and then, the next day, the crack version will be available for download at torrent tracker next to you.
- Eugenitor, on 11/29/2008, -16/+114"Absolutely 0% zero-day piracy"? HAHAHAHAHA
That sounds like an open taunt to the pirates.
Do not taunt the pirates! - topbob, on 11/29/2008, -7/+102BREAKING: GTA IV The most pirated PC game, Ever.
- LMN8R, on 11/29/2008, -79/+159GTA IV does not have any installation/activation limits like other SecuROM implementations do. Therefore, its impact on the consumer is identical to Valve (and other) games on Steam.
This DRM also guarantees 0% zero-day piracy. It worked on Bioshock, Crysis Warhead, and other titles. It was absolutely impossible to pirate the game before launch. Stopping leaks like this is a pretty damned important. Spore used a different implementation, which is why it was cracked and made available pre-release.
But bottom line, if you refuse to purchase GTA IV because of its DRM, yet happily buy non-SecuROM games on Steam, you are a hypocrite. Regardless of the legitimacy of your complaints, they are meaningless if you exercise this practice. If you are so strongly against DRM, then don't play the games. Don't buy them in stores, don't buy them on Steam, and most certainly don't pirate them either. - TheTaoOfBill, on 11/29/2008, -1/+74Now I want to crack GTA 4 just to see these comical game changing experiences.
- ajoh198, on 11/29/2008, -5/+66Honestly I don't understand why they bother, I remember getting bioshock and waiting a day to 'activate' it because their system was broken, yet I could have downloaded it two days earlier and been playing it - without the constant irritation of having to put the disc in the drive.
- Vash63, on 11/29/2008, -73/+134Who cares? It doesn't have an activation limit. This kind of DRM is pretty well accepted. It's the activation limits that piss me off.
- EmailAddress, on 11/29/2008, -15/+76It's "accepted" (to those few) because there is no other choice. The hype and ads, etc, are so powerful that there are those who will bow to DRM.
There is no choice, "they" want to play the game; so they will succumb/surrender to the DRM.
Warez is the only outlet that yields a clean path to the game, without DRM. - noobeffect, on 11/29/2008, -3/+61Here's what they don't tell you in this article:
The studio also noted that "using a cracked copy of GTA IV PC will result in varying changes to the game experience," explaining that "these can range from comical to game-progress-halting changes."
"An active internet connection is required to play multi-player games and upload user-created videos, but the offline single-player mode is always available - even if you aren't connected to the internet.
GTA IV PC uses SecuROM for protecting our EXE until street date has passed, to ensure the retail disk is in the computer drive, and is used for Product Activation of the title. Product Activation is a one time only online authentication when installing the game. GTA IV has no install limits for the retail disc version of the game, and that version can be installed on an unlimited number of PCs by the retail disk owner.
All versions of the game will use SecuROM for Product Activation. Downloadable versions of the game will have additional code if the vendor requires it, such as Valve's Steam program.
As part of the uninstall process, the Rockstar Games Social Club application and the GTA IV game can both be removed. Shared software and plug-ins, such as Games for Windows Live, Adobe Flash and Direct-X may have to be deleted separately. In regards to SecuROM, deleting GTA IV will remove the active functions if it is the only application that requires SecuROM, but some traces will remain, such as a registry entry and file, which allows you to reinstall without re-entering your authentication code. We are working with SecuROM to post information on our support pages regarding how to remove these inactive traces of the program for users who wish to do so." - Konrad9, on 11/29/2008, -4/+55Horse *****.
I can't play games I HAVE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR LEGALLY IN A STORE just because I have daemon tools running. And no, I'm not using it for illicit activities, thanks for asking.
This kind of DRM guarantees NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING, except for one thing. It pisses off the people who own legal copies of the game. - roxxorofjoo, on 11/29/2008, -8/+57I am going to stick it to the man and not buy this game.
- ramenite, on 11/29/2008, -6/+54I'll never buy a game that uses SecuROM.
I've had nothing but problems when that was installed on my computer. I've had DVDs not burn, the icon on my DVD wouldn't update in explorer, and my system would crash for no reason. Amazingly, when I removed the offending game and SecuROM, it all went away.
And getting rid of it is a bitch. Null entries in the registry, so I needed to get a utility from sysinternals to remove them. An extension called "cmdlineext.dll", and a host of other hidden files.
Making registry entries not deletable by normal means, hiding libraries in system32 with names to seem like they belong like "cmdlineext", hidden files? Causes system instability? What does this sound like to you? - Morac, on 11/29/2008, -0/+35Accepted by who? SecurROM has this annoying "feature" that prevents programs protected by from running, if it detects an "inappropriate" program on your machine. Things that are considered inappropriate include: virtual drives, DVD/CD burning software, multiple CD/DVD drives, process and disk monitoring software and most other diagnostic utilities.
So I guess it's acceptable by people who don't use their computer for anything other than games. For the rest of us it's a pain in the ass. - TheKitchenSinkX, on 11/29/2008, -1/+34What? If it's cracked well, the game won't know it's cracked. Only shoddy cracks would be victim to that, I would think.
- Murdats, on 11/29/2008, -4/+36I care, securom tries to tell me what I can and can't run on my computer, I use process explorer but if I want to play a securom game my choices are restart the computer each time I want to play or crack the game.
this is known, their solution for it is "this is how it was designed to work, uninstall process explorer" - inactive, on 11/29/2008, -0/+28@flangepiece
Starcraft and Counterstrike 1.6 - RiverBelow, on 11/29/2008, -14/+41That's why we use Steam.
Don't try and defend piracy like a moron. You're hurting the PC gaming industry. Inserting a disc to make sure you didn't download it isn't so hard to do. If it bothers you much, spend $30 on another DVD player just to keep GTA IV in so you don't have to stretch slightly to reach for a game disc.
Again, on Steam, you never have to use a disc. That's where most of my PC gaming purchases go. - Spire3660, on 11/29/2008, -2/+28Valve and steam have a DECADE of providing me with service. SO no, its not the same thing. You know what valve did when it found i had 2 HL2 licenses? It allowed me to GIVE ONE AWAY. Not to mention I can play my steam games on almost any computer connected to the net. Not the same thing.
- TheKitchenSinkX, on 11/29/2008, -0/+25Or if you're not an idiot, you can easily avoid that happening. Read comments, scan files, and you'll be good to go.
Generally if it IS malware, then the comments will be filled with "IT'S MALWARE." Also it usually replaces the launcher or the game executable itself if it's a crack, and I've never had one that has an accurate ICO not work. Usually if it's malware it'll be one of those white rectangles used to signify .exes. In such a case, you scan it, and trust your scanner. The malware will never be cutting-edge. - Godmil, on 11/29/2008, -6/+31Thankfully then you can buy it on Steam :)
- Murdats, on 11/29/2008, -5/+29"A fair request any reasonable person would say."
actually I hate using cd's and see no reason to, if I am somewhere and want to play a game on my laptop that I have the whole game installed on, i dont want to have to carry all the large bulky 'keys' to those games with me. I want to be able to press a few buttons and presto, game is running. - inactive, on 11/29/2008, -16/+40I guess I must be a hypocrite because I pirate games and download them on steam. I guess I'm a hypocrite for not wanting to have a root kit on my PC and getting games in the easiest way possible.
How does SecuROM prevent 0-day piracy? You have no idea what you are talking about, obviously. - BrokenCircle, on 11/29/2008, -1/+25Sorry to disappoint you LMN8R but I had Bioshock installed and running the Monday before it came out.
- Davers, on 11/29/2008, -7/+30Bloatware? Who doesn't already have Internet Explorer and Flash on their PCs? And Games for Windows only runs in-game and has no standalone component. Same goes for Rockstar Social Club.
AND OH MY GOD THIS JUST IN: You also need Windows, DirectX, Video drivers, sound drivers, and ***** INPUT DEVICES!! HOW CAN THEY EXPECT US TO HAVE SUCH THINGS?? - medfreak, on 11/29/2008, -3/+25You also need:
1) At least 3 fingers on each hand with opposable thumbs.
2) One functioning eye
3) A minimum of 500,000 brain cells, preferably in a living condition.
4) A beating heart.
P.S. This game is not compatible with rigor mortis. - 2Bnor2B, on 11/29/2008, -0/+21 "using a cracked copy of GTA IV PC will result in varying changes to the game experience.."
THQ tried this with Titan's Quest. The game was programmed to prevent you from doing things or crash if it was not legit. This backfired when people gave bad reviews complaining how buggy the game was and how it would always crash. - ikillpeoplexx, on 11/29/2008, -26/+47What are you talking about? SecuRom just tries to make sure you actually have the disc in when you install. A fair request any reasonable person would say. And lets be real, the vast majority of people who pirate games do it because it's free and they're too cheap (or can't afford) to support the makers and distributors of the game, not because they're getting some sort of "better" unlocked copy that's freed of DRM.
- elmuerte17, on 11/29/2008, -2/+23SecuROM gets pissed off if you have any virtual drives, regardless of whether the disc is in or not. If I want to use a mini CD image to load my games rather than lugging around my wallet full of discs with my laptop, who are they to tell me I can't? ***** you, SecuROM.
- Maxxpowers, on 11/29/2008, -12/+33I have been looking forward to the PC release...
Not that I am now. - phre3k187, on 11/29/2008, -1/+22"Lets go look at some American teeties"
- EvilFerret, on 11/29/2008, -3/+22I'm just going to pirate it.
- TheKitchenSinkX, on 11/29/2008, -5/+24So they're treating paying customers like criminals, and criminals not at all, because it'll be cracked anyway.
I call logic fail. - DyceFreak, on 11/29/2008, -0/+19hackers and crackers don't care
people who buy the game care
sad... - scb0825, on 11/29/2008, -4/+23I'm going to purchase a copy, and then download a copy of the game that isn't tainted.
- AzraDarkness, on 11/29/2008, -1/+20we have Bioshock almost two weeks before release.. and working in 3 hrs. so i dunno where you get your information, but you should check your sources before ranting.
DRM is a useless waste of time as dev pay for a service, that will ALWAYS get bypassed, the only thing DRM does is ANNOY the Crap out of Legit owners of the games. And does nothing to Pirates, as they always find a way to bypass the CD checks, or the Virtual CD checks. - SpeedSteamBoat, on 11/29/2008, -9/+28Here's an idea. If I PAID for the disc I should have the right to do with it as I please short of selling copies for profit. As far as I'm concerned DRM, the RIAA, the MPAA, and the rest of this "copyright" hawking ***** is naught but a form of tyranny. So no, I won't buy this game, because ***** Rockstar for not understanding the simple notion that people react to how you treat them. If they think they need to treat me like a thief I might as well act like one. If they go under because of it, good. Of course, the idea that a company would go under because of lost sales to piracy is absurd, and if they are so narrow minded that they can't see how DRM HURTS SALES then the floundering of their company is no one's fault but their own.
There's a lot of indignation directed at DRM, and for good reason. The whole notion of "intellectual property" has been blown WAY out of proportion. Prior to the internet and digital mediums it was simply a matter of not selling someone else's work. Now all the the sudden I can't even back up my own DVDs without becoming a criminal. It's outrageous, and if you can't understand how allowing someone else to have that sort of control over you is nothing short of caving in to tyranny I'm sorry.
Will I pirate GTA IV? Perhaps. Will I buy it? ***** NO!
This isn't about some notion of being entitled to movies, music, and games. This about my right as a consumer to do as I please with my purchases up to and including sharing them with people EVEN OVER THE INTERNET. Internet downloaders, "pirates" if you really enjoy that incredibly silly moniker, fall into one of two groups, people who want to "try before they buy" and people who are only downloading out of curiosity with no intention of buying the product. So who are they really fighting? Half of these people simply aren't customers to begin with, and the rest of them aren't going to be any more less likely to pay for your product either way. The only thing DRM really successfully achieves is the alienation and frustration of otherwise honest customers. DRM has done NOTHING to stem the tide of web "piracy."
So please, tell me again why this miserable failure of a business strategy, this unjust intrusion into a consumers life beyond the cash register, this fallacy of righteousness should be allowed to go on and be bankrolled by me when I cave to your strange notion that buying DRM protected games will make DRM go away somehow. So yes, this is a very "us vs. them" scenario, and let's not forget who draw the battle lines over Napster in the late 90s instead of embracing a revolutionary distribution system with so much potential that continues to be largely squandered by the short sighted and the narrow minded. I believe strongly that media and "IP" in the digital age is fundamentally a matter of public domain. Try as you might, no law or software will be able to change that until you destroy the internet all together. If selling something that can be freely copied and distributed all over the world in milliseconds doesn't appeal to you then you should probably find a new line of work, but either way stop treating your real paying customers like criminals. It's not helping you. - TVarmy, on 11/29/2008, -1/+20Steam itself is a form of DRM. However, it doesn't really restrict me in any way I care, so I don't mind, short of being able to sell games. I don't want to give a free copy of my games to all my friends, nor do I think I should be able to. The developers worked hard, and they deserve the revenue. What I like is that I'm allowed to use my games on any computer that has Steam installed, and now Steam is making it easier with their new Cloud service. Plus, it's integrated with the server finding parts of the games, so it's not inconveniencing me by asking me to log in more than i should, and, of course, I just have it remember my user name and password on my own personal computer.
- dungbeetle, on 11/29/2008, -0/+19Not to mention the thing runs in the background while you're playing, slowing the game down. There's also storied of people's DVD-Roms getting toasted. Securom is the new Starforce.
- onimusha115, on 11/29/2008, -27/+45I think we are going to see PC games on a steady decline, probably to the point of where they are just non-existent. Piracy is just such a huge issue on the PC that game companies are going to see it as too much of a risk and just move development over to consoles. I like how i see people that say "what?! DRM?!? ***** that company, im going to pirate it" as if its a form of activism. If you ask me, its nothing more than a way to justify piracy. Game piracy is wrong not matter how you look at it, and I know im going to get buried for this. You cant steal games and expect the companies to not go under, they are never going to give it away for free. If playing games is a hobby that you enjoy then support the developers, go out to the store and hand over your money for them. Don't pirate the games and then turn around and act all shocked when they start to roll out the DRM. When you pirate it to counteract their DRM, its just giving the company a reason to use the DRM in the first place.
- TehProphet, on 11/29/2008, -0/+17I remember when FEAR had secuROM, it wouldn't load the game as long as I had process explorer installed on my computer.. I don't understand why a program with NOTHING related to piracy, and made by Sysinternals would cause a red flag with secuROM. I think what I did was went into the hidden secuROM folder and renamed and deleted a bunch of random stuff and somehow it worked after that.
- ralphthemagi, on 11/29/2008, -1/+18The games are leaked by employees. It's the oldest form of piracy, and happens all the time.
If the game exists in a completed state somewhere, then it's piratable. That's really the only requirement. - 1longtime, on 11/29/2008, -1/+17I'm not going to buy it because it was so insanely over-hyped. I'm still shaking my head at the "100/100" score on Metacritic.
- EmailAddress, on 11/29/2008, -1/+17DRM doesn't work. It just adds more hassle for the legitimate buyer.
The person getting the game from the Warez distribution system, after downloading, just installs and runs the game. No username/password, no logging in... nothing.
Just install, double-click and you're on your way. - WiZZLa, on 11/29/2008, -0/+15I thought SecuROM was a virus?
- noobeffect, on 11/29/2008, -10/+25They will patch the game in order to remove the authentication if necessary. We've already seen it done by 2K Games.
- Dustmuffins, on 11/29/2008, -8/+23I was too, now I'm just looking forward to the torrent instead.
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