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Backlash against DRM in Bioshock mounting

forums.2kgames.com — [Direct Link] The DRM utilized in Bioshock requires users to activate their game, limiting to two installations unless uninstalled. Complaints about activation issues and lost activations are now rolling in on the Bioshock forums with Securom telling users to contact 2kgames to resolve the issue.

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  • rebelphoenix, on 10/10/2007, -6/+145This DRM issue is a nightmare, the demo actually came with a rootkit labled "SecuROM"
    • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -66/+6Do you know what-the-***** a rootkit is?
      • saguratus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+43I'd wage to say you didn't look into SecuRom 10, as part of it is a rootkit which is installed silently to hide relevant processes and deter disassembly.
        • MeneerR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Maybe that is why the installation didn't work on WINE in userspace ;-)
      • sctwp09, on 10/10/2007, -4/+21Wageslaven is the biggest pro-microsoft/pro RIAA-MPAA troll on Digg. He's worse than 7of7, JasonCox, and estvir combined, so it's best not to feed him.
      • Wootery, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8@sctwp09 (I can't see your post when I'm logged in, for whatever reason)

        Being mentioned by name is the kind of attention/recognition trolls seek - Do not feed the trolls!
    • directsun, on 10/10/2007, -0/+25demo and full version have it
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM
    • h4mx0r, on 10/10/2007, -0/+54AVG anti-virus went crazy on me the moment the bioshock demo was unzipped. Trojans galore it said. SecuROM blows says I.
    • ZippyV, on 10/10/2007, -1/+46How stupid can they be to 'protect' their demo. Against what? Illegal copying?

      That reminds me of Digital Extremes and their demo of Pariah, you could only use it for 999 days.
      • patm1987, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17It is my understanding that it's commonplace to put copyprotection in demo's to prevent the creation of modified binaries for the full version without said protection. Not that it actually works in practice, I suppose it would delay it a bit. Plus, it makes me happy to know that my fresh install of windows has a pretty rootkit.
    • holysocks, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22I don't think SecuROM and other similar crap has ever done any good to games
      • chadillak, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1the Bioshock torrent has yet to show up anywhere. this means their copy protection worked to some extent. I almost bought it, but the fact that it installs something in the background without my approval means I'll wait till the torrent miraculously appears.
      • sp4rky, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Really? http://btjunkie.org/search?query=bioshock And they've been up for sometime now.
    • FriedTurkey, on 10/10/2007, -20/+1Dude it's not a rootkit. It can screw up your computer but it's not a rootkit. You should look up the buzz word you are using.
    • jjmckay, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0Okay I did some rather extensive searching on my computer and have determined that the bioshock DEMO does not install a rootkit. Specifically I searched for the SecuROM software and could not find it. Albeit my SecuROM software status was in a half broken status because I had deleted the securom folder but not an older SecuROM registry entry from Feb 2007 (probably from my install of the game F.E.A.R.). You can use the sysinternals 'rootkitrevealer' to search for it. How did you determine that the demo comes with SecuROM?

      I agree though that SecuROM is invasive and is an often undesireable software to have installed on a pc. Sometimes it's needed to play an game, until a fix (crack) is found.
    • Zuggy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6DRM is like giving the kids in a high school class detention for ditching school, only those in class are punished.

      If I buy Bioshock, I'm punished with DRM
      If I pirate it I don't have to deal with it
  • refreshers, on 10/10/2007, -7/+189Yay for limiting the consumers right while pirates get to play it hassle free. Its like 2KGames is sending a message to us....
    • MeneerR, on 10/10/2007, -1/+66The message: USE PIRATED VERSION IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SCREW UP YOUR WINDOWS OR IF YOU WANT TO RUN IN WINE
    • LucianSolaris, on 10/10/2007, -1/+23ADVOCATING THIS FORM OF DISOBEDIENCE ONLY BECAUSE IT COMES WITH CRAPPY SECUROM!

      Tell the developers to shove BioShock up their asses, DO NOT BUY IT!

      Pirate this version and crack SecuROM out of it before installing. If they see massive $$$ loss maybe they'll wake up (or the may do a Microsoft and make it worse, then die. Microsoft isn't dead purely because of its market share's sheer size)
    • BabyWookie, on 10/10/2007, -7/+32K must be very happy. This copy protection scheme is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Three days out and still no "scene" release. I personaly know one dude who went out and bought the game last night, because he just couldn't wait any more. The very talented and capabale scene people will crack it soon, but these first few days are crucial for sales.
    • Zuggy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2@BabyWookie

      So 2k is thinking, "Let's ***** up millions of computers and risk long term customers for short term minimal profit gain." I'd say I doubt it, but their actions speak louder then words
  • frsrblch, on 10/10/2007, -3/+105This is an amazing game, but it sickens me to see stuff like this put into a game. If I had known about the SecuROM in the demo (the DEMO for Christ's sake!) I would have waited the extra day to play it. And aren't rootkits illegal to being with?

    They can either remove the copy protection from the game, or the pirates will. If the pirates do it (and they will... they always do), then the illegal copies of the game will actually be better than the actual $50 version.
    • Megatog615, on 10/10/2007, -21/+1Nothing like that is illegal if you agree to it when you fail to read the EULA.
      • mythicflux, on 10/10/2007, -2/+20Except that there is a question about the legal enforceability of EULA. Simply, just because the EULA has terms you agree to does not mean that those terms can violate existing laws.
      • sinrtb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21Just because you agree to something in an EULA doesnt give the company to violate your rights or the law of the land. Placing a virus on your computer is illegal.
      • m0shen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Illegal, maybe not, but civil? DEFINITELY. Don't you remember the Sony case? Plus there is a growing amount of legal pretext that "click to accept" EULAs do not constitute a binding agreement. It's also pointed out that this application violates 2k's OWN privacy policies.

        They just need to drop it immediately.
      • Zuggy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Also if I remember correctly, although there have been a couple legal precedents to the contrary, you agree to the EULA when you open the shrink wrap before you read it, which is on very shaky legal ground.
  • rebelphoenix, on 10/10/2007, -3/+42http://www.pcgamer.com/ has a very interesting blog called "DRMShock"
    • Serra1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4The real crime is that it seems to have a DVD check AND activation. Why both?
  • Elbart, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10Another one http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170664&site=pcg&skip=yes
  • directsun, on 10/10/2007, -23/+18This is *****. Reminds me of windows
    • over9, on 10/10/2007, -3/+20if you have a valid windows key, you can use it as many times as you want.
      • kris33, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6Yeah, but not legally.
        • LordSlashstab55, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12sure, and if you happen to change hardware and install more than 5 times they make you call Msoft and explain to them why you're installing again.
          • Gir53457, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6The truth shall not be seen! Bury him!
      • JonnyTrombone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Windows deactivated my XP CD-Key because I've installed it 'too many times.' (I think the magic number is 7) I've only ever installed XP on the computer I bought it for- but now I have to get a slightly non-legit copy if I want to reformat my computer.
        • washburn085, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5My XP number was 3, on my fourth reformat I had to call them to activate XP, and each office program (not jsut the suite). Also, after i installed xp, i intsalled my motherboards audio drivers, it said my hardware changed (like i had a new motherboard) and had to call again to reactivate xp....
  • directsun, on 10/10/2007, -4/+128It seems 2K is in violation of their own User End Agreement.
    http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6615

    Originally Posted by Kursa View Post
    I was able to return my copy of Bioshock to Gamestop today. Sorry, I just couldnt deal with the crap associated with it right now. Maybe a few months down the road, I'll rebuy a copy.

    Anyways, if you are one of those who wishes to return it for actual money of how you paid for it for whatever reasons (securom/2k screwed you with the crappy no valid installation, unbearable crashes, .exe wouldn't start up, etc), you can tell them the following:

    By law and according to 2K EULA agreement you agree to the terms and conditions regarding the installation of the product.

    Under these set of rules, it is perfectly legal to uninstall the said product and reinstall it on another machine that is owned by the buyer of the product. Typically, one needs multiple products to install on multiple systems but one only needs one product and if he or she wished to uninstall the product, the consumer has every right to reinstall it onto another machine that is owned by him or her.....indefinetely.

    Securom, hinges on your rights as the buyer. Securom, in general, does not; however, the practice of allowing only two installs do hinge on the right. It is the same as buying a Ford Mustang. True, you cannot advertise your Ford Mustang on TV to make profit as you would violate their buyers contract. HOWEVER, if you fully bought that Ford Mustang, it is yours until you deem fit to get rid of it. Ford cannot limit your driving or years of ownership if fully paid by you.

    With your rights as a consumer both by US Consumer standards and by the very EULA contract on page 34 of Bioshock manual, 2K are in violation of their own contractual agreement with the buyer.

    I'm not talking about the game being crappy for you to give the game back. Im talking about the violations that has occured under securom. Now, if 2K were to altar Securom so that you still need the DVD to play but allows you to receive unlimited installs, then their contract to you will be fulfilled.

    But, right now, 2K is in violation of their User End Agreement.

    Trust me when I say this. I graduated from Regent Law School in Virginia Beach, Va in 2006 and I received my license in Oklahoma after passing my Bar Exam in Feb. of 2007.

    Explaining those violations will give you your refund back by the store you bought it from (with a receipt) or by 2K actual company.

    Good luck.

    **this post was locked by Elizabeth2K yesterday but I felt that every consumer had the right to know this; whether you love the company or was indifferent about it.
    • Disneyisevil50, on 10/10/2007, -1/+31Apparently they don't read it either
    • fatdog789, on 10/10/2007, -20/+4Graduating from Regent Law School isn't something to be proud of. It has the lowest bar passage rate in the nation. The only schools worse than Regent are the Liberty and Cooley law schools.

      It's pretty obvious how bad this school is; this lady claims that 2k is in violation of their own EULA...which is impossible, since they don't violate the provisions of the EULA that bind them. It requires that one actually read the damn thing all the way through. The restrictions on 2k are few and far between, but they are there. 2k is bound to resort to arbitration for any disputes, though the user is not (see recent court decisions on Digg about unconscionable contract provisions re AT&T).

      The comparison to the Ford is inappropriate; a car is tangible property and has issues of ownership and possession; software is intangible, and the issue is a license for use, not possession.

      HERE, the only limit on the license is that it is restricted to 2 SIMULTANEOUS installations. You can install as many times as you want, as long as only 2 installs are active at the same time.

      However, it is correct that the store *may* (depending on the state) be required to issue you a refund if you return the CD and box intact after rejecting the EULA. HOWEVER, in the 9th Circuit, this can be defeated by stores making EULAs available on request prior to purchase (so stores are not required to honor returns if the consumer fails to request the EULA beforehand).
      • sinrtb, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3"You can install as many times as you want, as long as only 2 installs are active at the same time." This is untrue you can at the current time only have 2 installs period same machine different machines whatever. The current software version does not allow you install this software more then 2 times.
        • mahoua, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Why do you say it's untrue, then proceed to repeat exactly what you quoted...

          You can INSTALL 10 000 times. You can ACTIVATE 2 copies max, at any given time.
    • crossmr, on 10/15/2007, -7/+10I always love these "trust me I'm a lawyer" ***** posts..
      true or not, it doesn't do anything to increase your credibility.
      • satzio, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I know plenty of awful lawyers...and "trust me", there's nothing like putting your faith in a professional and then realizing that they are a miserable and wretched jerk.
    • merreborn, on 10/10/2007, -7/+2"Securom, hinges on your rights as the buyer. Securom, in general, does not; however, the practice of allowing only two installs do hinge on the right"
      "Trust me when I say this. I graduated from Regent Law School in Virginia Beach, Va"

      Damn shame you don't know the difference between the words "infringe" and "hinge". Moron alert.
      • yutt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5"Now, if 2K were to altar Securom..."

        Hmmm, what do I need to sacrifice to Securom?
    • bonfiredb, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0This may be true, but we have to keep in mind that when you pick up a copy of a video game at the store, you are not buying the game itself, simply the right to use it. This brings me to understand any usage of sorts that you mentioned in your post would also mean you cannot use your copy of the game in that way. If you don't own the game itself, but simply the right to play it, then the legal implications would be different.
  • xerus, on 10/10/2007, -4/+79Yay! To try and stop criminals, game companies decide to treat ALL their customers like criminals!
    • Phyltre, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3This is equally true of governments, believe it or not. Think about it, the principles are the same.
    • sibhod, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Will this also have the issue, in say 10 years or so when these DRM check servers aren't online will there be any way to play the game without a crack?
      • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1In 10 years the comapny won't make any money out of this game any more... ergo: no.
  • str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -2/+47 I do wish they would go with something that doesn't leave 'residue' on my computer however...
  • TheLoneWolf071, on 10/10/2007, -39/+9Lol... I LOVE you people.

    For the past several weeks, All i've seen is nothing but Raving reviews and High Expectations for Bioshock...

    It comes out and BAM... Every little detail is torn limb for limb. It's such a beauty, i think i've got a tear in my eye.
    • aelder, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14This issue goes beyond Bioshock though, I don't want to start thinking about my new games installing rootkits that I can't remove easily.

      If the message is sent now, maybe publishers will think again before this happens to another game.
      • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -17/+3Do you know what a rootkit even is?
        • Zettabyte, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Oh *****. I just Dugg wageslaven comment. I think I am going to jump of a bridge now.
      • aelder, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4I do actually. I'm one of those strange people with a computer science degree. Fancy that.
    • Phocion55, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18Wait. What?

      I want to say RTFA....but all you had to do is read the ***** article TITLE.

      1. This has NOTHING to do with the game or gameplay itself.
      2. This kind of issue is NOT "little".
      3. No one could have seen this coming.

      Buried a having no clue whatsoever.
    • Azio, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12The game is fine. The other ***** it comes with, not so much.
    • Tsen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I think it's a perfect message to game companies: You can make the most amazing game ever, and still shoot yourself in the foot with the delivery. People don't like DRM, and if you include it, it will affect your sales. 2kgames, use DRM at your own risk. Hope they learn from it.
  • TalkingBanana, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17Draconian, dude
  • icsbase, on 10/10/2007, -6/+55I was actually thinking of buying Bioshock but because of this mess, i wont. It might be me who cant play the game that i want to. Who actually uninstalls games if they format their pc? No one. Btw, EULA can't walk over the country law. Atleast thats the case here in Finland. If you have a faulty product, you are entitled to get a working one or get your money back.
    • drachemorder, on 10/10/2007, -1/+34I'm with you. I was thinking about buying it, but now I definitely will not until this DRM garbage is removed.
      • MeneerR, on 10/10/2007, -10/+8Or use the pirated version. That'll show them
      • MeneerR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16Or use the pirated version. That'll show them
        • drachemorder, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14No, I don't intend to do that. I will protest their decision, but I'll do so by the book, no questionable activities.
      • HsoKinees, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6why not keep the game you bought, but download and install a cracked copy, the true definition of the word "backup", right? that shouldn't taint your OS in any way.. unless you got it from a dodgy source :P
        • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1nice idea, but a cracked copy is still illegal.
  • zeroomegazx, on 10/10/2007, -9/+26please remove this CRAP so i can test the game on my 4 pc's and see which one runs it the best...... like any other game out there......
    • Danjamin, on 10/10/2007, -34/+5just uninstall it first you ***** idiot
      • aelder, on 10/10/2007, -2/+18If you read the forums, or the blog posted by PC Gamer about this, you would understand that uninstalling correctly does not work. RTFA.
      • swrlyhrly, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8STFU noob. Like the guy above me, RTFA. The uninstall thing was a lie or at least an incredible misunderstanding.
    • FredFredrickson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15You don't know which one runs it the best just by looking at the parts inside them?
    • dillibob, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3is this sarcasm?
    • nukexbi, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Ya, because 2K should cater to the obvious... I mean... everyone installs their games on four machines right?
  • j4ck80, on 10/10/2007, -18/+15It's things like this that make me not miss PC Gaming at all. I'll be playing Bioshock for 360 on my giant HDTV while the PC gamers are struggling with/bitching about copy protection.
    • nonymous666, on 10/10/2007, -8/+15Good luck with those taking down the Big Daddies without a mouse. No fun.
      • j4ck80, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6I'm 3/4 of the way through the game and I've had no trouble so far.
      • unjustend, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5As a avid PC FPS person, I used to think this way as well, "OMG NO MOUSE WTF" But after having played a lot of halo, fear, gears, basically just a lot of console, I really have no issue shooting stuff with the controller anymore. Those thumbsticks can be scary accurate when you get used to them.
        • DPyro, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Most console FPS have some sort of autoaim built in for the thumbsticks... >_>
          • MalenfantX, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Bioshock does autoaim, and it's annoying, but you can turn it off. unjustend is correct. you can be very accurate with dual-thumbstick control. I have Bioshock for the PC and 360, and like the 360 controls better. I also like not having random lockups like with the PC version.
      • happycat, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Ah it's not the lack of mouse that is the problem-you get used to the controllers(kinda)-but you never get used to the 'wet paint' look that is a trademark of the xbox 360. Whether it's rusted metal, rocks, or wooden beams, they all look like they are made from glass or just received three coats of turtle wax.
    • MeneerR, on 10/10/2007, -3/+20Yeah, it's much easier when the DRM is implemented straight in the hard-ware. Hoeray for the XBox.

      Dumbass. That's actually worse.
      You can't copy your dvd (legall), you have no backup. If you scratch the disc, you're *****.
      Yes, I know you can hack your xbox to make it work. Like you can wait for the pirated version to play on the PC. But both are workarounds. I choose not to pay unless they start treating me human again.

      Only humans can break the law. If they don't treat as humans, then that's how we're gonna play it. And ***** the XBox.
      Since the XBox is just specific hardware + specific windows os, maybe the wine-developpers can create an xbox-emu.

      0 dollars for MS all the way.
      • sinrtb, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Its a little different on the xbox. you only need to hack the box and then you can do whatever you want with any games that come out. rather then having to wait for the pirated version of every virus/game that comes out.
        • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1doesn't make it any better, because it's still illegal.
      • DesuKN, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1What the ***** does Microsoft have to do with the way 2K secures their game?
    • FoxRacR17, on 10/10/2007, -11/+2Seriously, you pc guys act like any FPS game is not worth playing if you cannot use a mouse. I started out as a kid playing FPS games on the computer, and now i only play games on consoles. There is no HUGE advantage that the mouse has over the 360 controller, i dont even play games on my computer anymore (not that i cant, seeing how i'm dual core and SLi with 3 gigs of ram), i only get games for my 360 and i am not regretting it at all.
      • DiamondIce, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10If you actually did what you said you did in your post, then you would know that the mouse+keyboard combination is far superior to any game-pad for FPS.
    • FredFredrickson, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Great job raging against the machine there. Stick it to the man, down with a software manufacturer - but support all the other tech companies who made your computer's parts. Brilliant.
    • happycat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I don't know why people brag about playing games on their HDTV when I've been playing PC games with 768 pixel vertical resolution (better than 720P) for a decade and at resolutions of 1280x1024 (essentially 1080P) since Y2K. HDTV resolutions improve television-for games it's a step backwards measured in years. You can really notice the jagged edges on 360 games.

      Also since you're sitting 6' away from it, your HDTV wont be that much larger than your 20" desktop monitor that is 2' in front of your face. But it is fun to sit on the couch. :)
  • Kyrgizion, on 10/10/2007, -29/+42I'm gonna do what I did with HL2: pirate it.
    If they ever offer a version free of all that crap or HL2 without steam, I'll gladly put my money down.
    • Danjamin, on 10/10/2007, -24/+14people like you are the reason there is copy protection in the first place.
      • ThndrShk2k, on 10/10/2007, -3/+18People like him get to play Bioshock hassle free

        see a connection?
      • uptown, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10"people like you are the reason there is copy protection in the first place."

        Well they sure showed him, didn't they?!
    • ingoldsby, on 10/10/2007, -2/+63Steam isn't the DRM people are talking about. They are talking about Securom which comes with the boxed version of the game. I love the fact that I have games registered to my steam account.. the other day I decided to play HL2 again (it's been a long time) and I don't have my boxes anymore - well I just opened up my steam account and it knew I owned the game and downloaded/installed it for me with no questions asked. Maybe it's just me but I actually -like- that (and no, I don't work for Valve).
      • swrlyhrly, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4Even the Steam version has this ridiculous activation crap on it too.

        /I stand corrected. Apparently they fixed that last night on the steam version.
        • nogami, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Where do you see that? The steam version still has the securom activation with 2-machine limit on it...
      • frsrblch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17I like this system too. Disks can be scratched, but even then the game is only a (legal) download away. Once you've registered the game, you can download and play it with your Steam account on any computer (as far as I'm aware).
      • ElectricGrandpa, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10I have to admit, I'm a big fan of team for the same reasons ingoldsby posted... I always seem to lose disks, but now I can just redownload stuff and play it.
    • ryodoan, on 10/10/2007, -4/+25I second ingoldsby, this is completely different from steam and HL2. While yes, HL2 requires steam if you legally purchase it, steam is one of the least restrictive versions of DRM that exists.

      What other type of DRM not only allows you to install the copy of your game, automatically downloads updates, allows you to track when your friends are playing and finally allows you to download the game as many times as you like, no questions asked? The only reason to not like it is if you want to steal the game... Yes, torrenting is stealing.

      // ps, if this comment is posted twice its because diggs post system just freaked out on me.
    • ryodoan, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13gah... FIX THE COMMENT SYSTEM.
    • garewortel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+18Steam wasnt enough a reason to pirate HL2 though. In fact, Steam was great for shifting games on my account around on my different pc's without any hassle. At least Valve wasnt treating its customers like criminals, Steam was their way of increasing profits. And i'd gladly support a developer like Valve.
    • renegadeafk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16I actually really like steam, it has an acceptable level of DRM, without going WAY overboard like secuROM, steam is relatively convenient and I can download all my games no matter what PC I'm on.
    • fuzzmeister, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11How is Steam restrictive? It let's you install the game on as many computers as you want, with no CD's required, without question. It seems like a much better method than DRM-infested CD's to me.
    • MaxPayne3476, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4First, a big ***** you! Valve puts out quality *****.

      Second, Steam is amazing in my opinion. I no longer keep my CDs around. I don't have to be online to use it. And they don't care if i smoke pot in my living room.
  • shinelikeitdoes, on 10/10/2007, -14/+2go 360!
  • asare4, on 10/10/2007, -12/+3one of the best game for 360
    • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -14/+2According to the reviews, it is one of the best games ever made. All this SecurROM bitching is ridiculous, and almost totally inaccurate.
  • Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -14/+4I wouldn't read too much into this people, and don't give up getting the game yet. Every hyped release has problems like this, remember HL2? plauged by activation problems, stability problems, etc.
    • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1yeah and the rootkit installation, the installation limits... oh wait...
  • evileddy60, on 10/10/2007, -14/+9Torrents 4 teh win!
  • Senn, on 10/10/2007, -3/+80They've lost a sale from me. Because of piracy? Nope, because of how they try to fight it. ***** DRM.
    • daridave, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I agree. I was ready to buy it off Steam. But I won't anymore, I'm downloading it instead. Money isn't the issue here -- it's the fact that after months of cheering for their product, they're actualling imposing me, the buyer, fan of their work, a limitation that is extremely frustrating.

      Everybody knows piracy is out there and it will NEVER be contained. Their methods to fight it are completely ignorant -- again, like we all know, they limit the innocent, while the freeloaders still get away with it. They knew this was going to happen -- so ***** it, I'm NOT supporting their insulting ways.
  • treas, on 10/10/2007, -2/+45The STEAM version is 10 times better, as they released an update last night that allows BioShock to be played on any computer. The only restriction is that BioShock can only have one instance open at a time, but that really shouldn't be a problem for anyone.
    • rebelphoenix, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6626221#post6626221

      The Patch has not helped.
    • ryodoan, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6The only problem there is that when I purchase a game I like to have a hardcopy of said game. As much as I like Steam, I miss my cool box art...
      • FredFredrickson, on 10/10/2007, -6/+3Steam has an option to let you burn your purchased software, in case you wanted a backup...
      • treas, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6That has nothing to do with the cool box art that ryodoan misses :P
      • dissident, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6I'm the opposite.. rather then having to deal with burning DVDs anymore I'd rather just have the whole game directory backed up on my 500GB external drive.. and that's what's great about steam.. you can log on months after using the game from any backed up source and just play the game, not hassle with reinstalling because the game requires it to be "installed" and the like.
      • MaxPayne3476, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1bioshocks art work isn't anything special.
    • fuzzmeister, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I really can't wait until every single game is on Steam, or a similar system. The sooner we can get away from CD's and their associated hassles, the better.
      • MaxPayne3476, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2very true, Ive realized that I never use my macbook's cd-rom drive, ever. everything either residing on my hard drive or my external.
  • Danjamin, on 10/10/2007, -31/+5I seriously can't believe that this many people don't have anything better to do with their lives than complain that they can't install a game on more than two computers at once.
    • zeroomegazx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16screw off man we cant install it more than TWICE even on the same pc. stop making yourself look like a retard and read before you comment
      • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -11/+2Your ***** wrong. SecurROM has been around since 1997, and has been used on 200 Million CDs -- do you think this is the first goddamn time the world has ever seen this?

        Just like danjamin said, i cant believe people have nothing better to do then spread this kind of whiny BS.
        • stoppedcode12, on 10/10/2007, -1/+21997? 200 Million CDs? What does that have anything to do with the inability to install the game twice on the same computer?
        • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Actually nothing, but wageslaven is a troll.. he just had to say it.
    • acidreflux, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8That's not the point. If you pay for a game you should be able to install it wherever you want and however many times you like. Paying for a game that can only be installed _twice_ is *****
      • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2THAT IS INACCURATE.
        • karel747, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Maybe slightly, but there's no need to take it personally....
        • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Nah.. he's just saying that because he is either involved in this rootkit development or just a usual troll. I'm seeing wageslaven defending securom since the beginning of the comments... and as well at other articles related to bioshock.
    • Danjamin, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2then don't buy it you ***** dork
      • kakti, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Yeah...thats what many people are doing. They're not buying it
  • h4mx0r, on 10/10/2007, -2/+28as well as AVG going crazy over trojan alerts with bioshock's DRM.
  • tacklebox, on 10/10/2007, -23/+4Install it, play the greatest single player FPS in the last 6 years, enjoy. I dont see how the DRM is in anyone's way here.
    • Dimensio, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15Then you obviously have not been paying attention, moron.
    • saguratus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10While it may not be in your way, I assure you, just read the thread linked by this article and you'll find plenty who've been left playing tag between SecuROM and 2k games trying to get Bioshock installed and activated, many who've just purchased the game.
    • DeFex, on 10/10/2007, -7/+5highly overrated game..lets see walk a predetermined path, pick up simple things to make other things work. shoot or otherwise kill people. itsa been done about 1000 times before!
      oh the graphics look cool ill give it that.
  • lpmiller, on 10/10/2007, -1/+31all this kind of protection does is prevent joe blow from giving his disc to his buddy. Why do publishers/devs still think this is a source of piracy? This has nothing to do with piracy, and all DRM protection is doing is pissing of customers. You might as well just do CD keys, it's easier, accepted, and less hassle. Stop trying to stop consumers from sharing your product like they would a book, and then maybe you can actually come up with effective ways to deal with pirates. Because this ain't doing dick.
    • devjunkie, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Agreed.

      Companies have to stop trying to combat piracy because it just won't work - period. There has not been one single piece of software, or copy protection mechanism put in place, that has prevented piracy.

      In a digital age where information can be duplicated and modified, their futile attempts at stopping piracy ultimately turn into "let's piss off the paying customer".

      Whether it's movies, music, games, whatever, you simply have to accept that it will be spread around. Those who see the quality in the product will buy it, those who choose not to purchase have already made their decision, so just let it be.

      Is piracy wrong? Some say yes, some say no, but in any case, it exists, it's a natural evolution of things, and there's really nothing anyone can do about it.
  • darny, on 10/10/2007, -15/+6Lost activations? Please. The game was released like 3 hours ago and people are losing their activations??
  • AzraDarkness, on 10/10/2007, -5/+30Ill wait for the torrent version that has the rootkit stripped out.. :D
    • Dimensio, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5Check your local torrent site. There's a pacsteam version making the rounds now. Supposedly it's confirmed as working.
      • lcmatt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5It doesn't work, I downloaded it and an error came up saying it couldn't connect to the key authorization sever, even the steam version comes packed with the DRM crap.
    • fuzzmeister, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Steam?
  • phantomdata, on 10/10/2007, -8/+8Danjamin; This is the Internet. We complain about everything.

    Also, it's not a complaint about two or more computers at once... it's a complaint about two times installing EVER.
  • zeroomegazx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14Nice the forums seem to have been subjected to the DIgg effect. Maybe now they will see that this is becoming very very widely known. We need more media sites to pick up on this
    • soot, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Let's form picket lines! Our civil rights are being stripped away!
  • extremeg24, on 10/10/2007, -8/+8You can't ***** Fontaine. Fontaine ***** you!
    • Wesside, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1LMFAO! I must admit that was a great line.
  • liquidjamm, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16So wait - rootkit comes with demo also? why?!?!?! Anyone knows how to remove the demo as well as the rootkit yet?
    • DeFex, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3same reason trackmania free game comes with crappy DRM. they are STUPID!
    • pogfreak, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1If they didn't DRM the demo then hackers could use the demo to crack the full version. It has to do with how secureROM works. I don't care to go over it all now but if you google the technical information is there. Yes secureROM is total ***** but it is 100% true that if you had a demo that wasn't released with secureROM you could use that to help crack the full version (obviously once you had the full version obtained).
      • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1uhm... ok... but as far as I read from a poster ~8 hours ago... there is already a cracked working full version available over torrent... so nevertheless the whole thing didn't quite work out... it seems.
  • xenovis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22The worst part about this, people who have corrupted hard drives, or rebuild machines without uninstalling Bioshock are stuck within a cycle of having to call Securom and 2k. Meanwhile the NoCD crack for Bioshock disables the DRM so the only people not affected by the DRM issues are the Pirates. Good work 2k and Securom for complete lack of understanding the issue. If something is popular enough it will be cracked, and just like the woes of the music industry DRM only hurts the customers that won't Pirate your art.
    • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -10/+2You dont have to call until that happens *TWICE*. You can loose the first key, then just go right ahead and install it again with the second key.

      If you loose the second key, you call and get another.... which you can then uninstall and move, and uninstall and move, and uninstall and move, and uninstall and move, and uninstall and move, and uninstall and move just like the other 200 Million SecuROM discs since 1997.
      • aurorous, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Yea that assumes 2k will even be in business when it comes time to get a second key.

        Game companies are notorious for being bought out by other game companies as well as dropping support for their own games the minute it slides off the top 10 sales charts. Your not suggesting that there will anyone to renew a deactivated key 2 years from now are you?

        It may be a great game just don't have a long term love affair with it. It's shelf life is designed to be limited.

        Or buy the 360 version... to bad I don't have an xbox.
      • stoppedcode12, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2You do realize that this particular DRM system in Biochock employed by SecuROM is quite new... right?
  • ICasualty, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6Now how about a fix to let us run off backup copies(ISO) of the game.
  • soot, on 10/10/2007, -10/+3I was pretty upset too when I heard about the DRM, but I didn't realize until today that its only limited to two installs at any one time. Really, if it were two and that's it, there would be alot more to piss and moan about, but I don't know how many people who buy the game for themselves should even care about this. I'm only being honest, not many people go around installing their game on three computers they own (Much less anyone who would happen to own three systems capable of playing BioShock at a decent quality). Those who want to keep it moving from one machine to the next, just uninstall it from one of the last.
    • Dimensio, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10" Those who want to keep it moving from one machine to the next, just uninstall it from one of the last."

      Does not work. It is confirmed that 2k was lying.
      • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -12/+1Your talking out of your ass. It is exactly what you purchased, it is exactly how it works. Do you always talk out of your arse?
    • xenovis, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3The problem is now if your hard drive dies, or you have to rebuild your box due to a virus, make very well sure that you have a crystal ball handy and predict these issues so you can uninstall Bioshock. There are multiple reports of people with corrupted bioshock uninstallation executables and people that lost a hard drive and could not uninstall the game. 2k tells you to call SecuRom, then SecuROM tells you to call 2k, the only way out of this right now is to install the NoCD crack.
    • fuliginosus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Over the time you are more than likely to have hd crash or some other reason which would prevent you from uninstalling this game properly (assuming that some day uninstalling actually releases your install credit). So two installs limit would eventually hit to almost everyone.
  • DeFex, on 10/10/2007, -8/+4if you un install the demo of this overrated game does it uninstall the securerom thing?
    • saguratus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Nope. There are however Securom cleaners around, although I think a few may come from shady sights. I believe there were some links to several different ones around page 20-25 in the thread.
  • LordSkywalker, on 10/10/2007, -6/+18But the DRM is necessary to protect their product from pirates.

    Oh wait: http://www.mininova.org/tor/850666
    • RobotBanana, on 10/10/2007, -1/+41047 seeds, 23951 leechers

      Yeah, that DRM stuff sure does work...
    • Namco, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Sadly it's just the iso. Not a real release by my standards. No hacked exe in the iso.
    • mooninite, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I can't even buy the game from stores in my area. They only have the Xbox version. What's the deal?

      I guess I'll have to use bittorrent to even get it at all. Sad.
    • lkms, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0well you can post that when they release the working crack .. until then, such posts are baseless.
      they get most of their sales in first few week after game release, so the longer it takes to crack the game the more reasons they have to say that the goal of fancy protection is accomplished.
  • reed311, on 10/10/2007, -0/+18I just wish they'd bring back the 100 page manuals and the copy protection consisted of them asking you what word is on page 95, paragraph 3, line 16. Oh boy, was that even more annoying than anything they have today.
    • iofthestorm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Haha, problem is with the internet that becomes too easy to get around. Although they could change the word around, I'm sure someone would just scan the manual.
    • DarkDx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Less annoyning but a ramdom question would work better. I prefer " Tell me the exact word in page 95 minus the number of total words in that page + 50, line 12" that avg saying my computer is infected with crap
    • lkms, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2PDF scan?
    • jeff303, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3My favorite scheme was for the old Duck Tales DOS game. They had a special alphabet, from which four characters were shown each time you started the game, which you had to decode to English before you could play (choosing from four possible translations). If you didn't have the manual with the alphabet you could guess and check (writing down your guess before testing it), and after enough time you had the entire alphabet figured out.
  • qubesquare, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12Bioshock is a great game plagued by one of the crappiest DRM technologies. Meanwhile pirates will find workarounds and be unaffected.... WHAT LESSON IS TO BE LEARNED!?!?!?!?!?!
    • phoenixp3k, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Having issues with AVG now, can't run the game. Have to re-install hoping it works. That will teach me to buy a game f**k 2k and their DRM choices
  • explodey, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3Why would you install it on more than one PC?
    • zeroomegazx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6installing it on may laptop and 2 gaming rigs, to see whether vista or xp runs it better for me. some gamers even dual boot or triple boot OS's which can have the same effect. It is a rediculous DRM that never should have been birthed
      • FredFredrickson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5What a surprise that it came from the God of all things technological, Sony.
    • fuliginosus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Because some day I may actually want to get a new computer and don't want to keep old one just because I can't install my games again.
    • stridox, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yes, I want to buy it 3 times for my 3 PCs, good thinking!
    • gromnie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Because I ***** bought the ***** product and it is mine to do with as I ***** well please.
    • devjunkie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Because it's our right?
      Because we can?
      Because we purchased the software and can use it any way we please on our own machines?
  • Megatog615, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6http://defectivebydesign.org/
  • mbthompson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+17Wow, ok, I can live with DRM, I can even live with having to activate on every install, but a ROOTKIT?! You know what I did when Sony pulled this crap, I stopped buying Sony CDs and products. So yeah, take that game and shove it up your ass because I'm certainly not buying it now.
  • cakenoob, on 10/22/2007, -3/+44my favorite comment on that thread:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ......................./´¯/)
    .....................,/¯../
    ...................../..../
    ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
    ........../'/.../..../....../¨¯
    ........('(....´...´. ¯~/'...')
    ..........................'...../
    ......................... _.·´
    ..........................(
    ..............................

  • crombenevolant, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3So if the game came out yesterday and you have already had to "reinstall" the game more than 2 times..... Somebody's downstairs neighbor is going to have to buy his own copy...
    • phillymozart, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2At my house, I personally have 3 (three) computers with STEAM/ HL2 on them: my own two personal computers and my brother's (who is not as into computers but loves the games). I have not been playing HL2 much so the single steam login is easy to workaround. This may be unacceptable to 2k but would they rather I just install pirated versions and be done with it? I have bought all the games I play (except for Starcraft) and install onto a separate partition, migrating them across multiple windows installations and upgrades. I do not need to be hassled as a paying customer.
  • raiderj, on 10/10/2007, -2/+28I don't even like having to have a disc in the drive in order to play - thusly I'll just get a no-CD crack for just about every game I play. There is no reason with over 300GB of space on my "small" machine that I need to play disc jockey in order for my games to work.

    With this game, even the demo installs a rootkit? I'm glad I found that out before I downloaded it. No way I'm going to intentionally install something like that. That would be just as dumb as opening that email attachment flagged as a virus. No thanks.

    So, if I decide to play this game, it certainly won't be the retail version. With pirated copies available sans rootkits, the choice is pretty obvious.
  • gmurray, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11I won't be playing this game. I was excited about it but these tactics are cruel. I won't even buy the 360 version until they fix this and pay reparations to their patrons.
    • jdaniel284, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3same here. no 360 purchase for me. There is no way in the seven burning depths of hell that I would ever support a company like this. Too many good games out there to put up with this crap
    • devjunkie, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2..just download it then. What's the harm in that?

      You already made a decision to not purchase it, so either borrow it from someone, rent a copy, or just download the PC version.

      It's still a great game despite the installation defects.
      • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1What's the harm in that? --> DRM

        except u meant download it illegaly :p
        • MalenfantX, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0What's up with you going on and on about things being illegal? Are you incapable of ignoring bad laws?
        • devjunkie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Well, what they're doing is illegal since it's bypassing Fair Use Rights.

          If they can do it then so can you.
  • Megatog615, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15Someone should submit a story that links to the torrent for this game, to spark a Digg revolt once again.

    I'd digg that.
    • cliffski, on 10/10/2007, -9/+4apparently this is one of the best PC games ever made, an original IP, and you want everyone to steal it? best way ever to ensure the PC gets nothing but Madden re-brnads each year. Lets kick the developers in the teeth, kill off PC gaming to make us all feel better. stick it to the man dude!!!!!!!!!!!!
      • scooby0110, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2I agree with cliff, with everyone stealing *****, were just going to get ports.
      • NamelessGerbil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Now now Cliffski...

        Let me ask you a question. Would YOU include "rootkit" installation in your games? (Yes, I know you from somewhere else, if you are who I think you are ;)

        As indie developer (like you) I do not courage piratism, but there is LINE one should not cross "trying" (and failing) to prevent it either.
    • Ratty, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10The publishers can see from all the activity on the 'net that it's the DRM ***** that's hurting their sales. The solution is simple; remove the DRM.
      • gromnie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Except they _won't_ see that. All they see is TEH P1R4CY OHNOX0RZ!!!11!BBQ
    • stereoa, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1or post the crack that requires the original, and then digg it?
  • mekareami, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14I was very sad to see that 2k is the owner of Civ IV and Pirates. If they try to pull this crap with those games as well I will most certainly not be buying the next one. No game has the right to install a rootkit on my machine. The more DRM you inject into products you want people to buy, the more likely said people will resort to pirated versions that extract the harmful software you have bundled. I am at the stage of my life where I don't mind buying software. Please don't make me waste my time by mucking up the purchase experience and forcing me back to the dark side
    • DracoFlameus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Owner of Pirates? Oh the irony :p
  • scabbers, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Greylantern nailed it.
  • Typhoon2009, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7I might get the 360 version, but if I go for the PC one I certainly won't buy it.
  • frsrblch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0You know what's funny? The DVD actually says on it: "Do not lend."
    • Fracture98, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Windows DVDs say "Do not make illegal copies of the DVD". Oh, darn. Hey, Vlad... shut down the presses.
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