How to NOT ending a Baseball inning watch!
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- JeffreyLloyd, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15That would be really cool, if it was in English. Still you can get a pretty good idea of what's going on. Good heads up base running by the batter.
- Cerebral, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2What do you mean... heads up running. Count is 2-2 with 2 outs with 2 runners on (1st and 3rd). There is no dropped 3rd strike rule in effect because 1 the catcher didn't drop the ball and 2 there is a runner on first. Secondly if it was called a ball by the first base ump (not in video just assuming) then he would not be entitled 1st base because he only has 2 balls. Third the home plate umpire signals the out after the check down to first.
I am so confused as to why he was safe and all three runs were allowed instead of the inning ended. Anyone have the translation as to what happened.- Bethling, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2First base doesn't have to be open if there are two outs.
It doesn't matter if the ball hits the ground before the catcher catches it or just drops it, they need to make the tag. It's kind of a weird rule, but (assuming 2 outs or 1st base open), the ball is in play after the third strike. Either the catcher catches the ball on the fly (like any other ball in play), or he/she has to make the out some other way.
That's the reason most softball/baseball catchers are told to tag the batter if there's any question that the ball hit the dirt.
- Bethling, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2First base doesn't have to be open if there are two outs.
- Cerebral, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2What do you mean... heads up running. Count is 2-2 with 2 outs with 2 runners on (1st and 3rd). There is no dropped 3rd strike rule in effect because 1 the catcher didn't drop the ball and 2 there is a runner on first. Secondly if it was called a ball by the first base ump (not in video just assuming) then he would not be entitled 1st base because he only has 2 balls. Third the home plate umpire signals the out after the check down to first.
- jlewicki, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2that pitch was a strike? the check swing did not come even come close to the threshold
- kyleh, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1apparently the 1st base umpire said he went around. I dont think he will get credit for it in his stats, but very heads up play.
- zaklampert, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4in japan they are a lot less lenient with check swings than in the MLB.
- Mac454, on 10/10/2007, -3/+73To explain what I think happened:
The batter struck out, but the ball hit the dirt before the catcher caught it, so in the rules of baseball, the batter either has to be tagged out or thrown out at first for the out to actually be recorded. The catcher did neither, and everyone on the field ran off. The batter, with cues from his bench, starting running to first, and proceeded to run around the bases without being tagged out. So his run then counts as well as the other two runners which were on base, and the inning continues.
So unofficially, the batter struck out, but got a three run home run. More likely though, they gave the catcher an error for not throwing the batter out. The batter was then throwing a baseball at the end because he was the pitcher for his team, and the inning had probably lasted for a while, so he wanted to keep his arm warmed up for when he finally went back out there to pitch.
I wonder if anything like this ever happened in MLB. I'll have to e-mail this to Jayson Stark.- lsatkins, on 10/10/2007, -8/+4I thought the catcher had to drop the 3rd strike.
- noahhoward, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I think if it hits the dirt that is your drop, he didn't catch the third pitch.
- Mac454, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The rule is if the ball hits the ground before the catcher catches it, the batter can attempt to get to first. The catcher will then have to either tag the batter or throw the ball to first. Another key here is the batter did not give himself up. If he started walking back to the dugout, he would have given himself up and would have been called out.
I watched this again, and I'm sure my explanation is correct. If you look at the graphic at the beginning, there are 2 balls, 2 strikes, and 2 outs with runners on first and third and the score 3-0.
If you watch the home plate umpire after the pitch, he appeals the call to the first base umpire, and then holds his hand up in a fist, indicating strike three. Because there are two outs with a runner on first, the batter CAN run to first because the ball hit the dirt before the catcher caught it. If there was no outs or one out with a runner on first, the batter couldn't try to get to first because it would open up the possibility of turning a double play, which would be unfair to the batting team. This is similar to the infield fly rule, where the batter is automatically out.
Also, if you look at the batter after he rounds the bases and touches home plate, you can see that the two baserunners that were on first and third rounded the bases and scored as they were next to homeplate when the batter himself scored. You can see at the end after the ump's explanation that the score went from 3-0 to 6-0, indicating that all three runners rounded the bases completely and scored.
Basically, it's too bad we couldn't translate what the umpire said, as I'm sure he explained what I just did, probably in a much less confusing way.
- YoctoYotta, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Interesting analysis, though I thought a base runner is called out if they pass a base runner ahead of them. If the two runners already on base didn't advance to home and went straight for the bench on the dropped third strike, wouldn't that nullify the hitters inside the park home run? The out would technically occur somewhere between second and home as the batter moved past wherever the other base runners exited the field. If you want to be silly, they technically would have had a four out inning =). Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
- EricCiccone, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1The catcher never dropped the ball, the 1st base umpire said that the batter did not swing therefore it was ball 4. The team on defense thought it was strike 3 and walked into the dugout while the runner took his base, and then stole the rest of the bases home.
- zaklampert, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3no it was strike three with a passed ball
- Lax32, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2The only way you cant get out on a 3rd strike is if the catcher drops the ball, not if it hits the dirt.
What happened was that the pitch was a ball but the player took a check swing. The homeplate umpire couldnt tell so he gave the decision to the first base, who apparently said he didnt swing but nobody got the message.- ajaxfontura, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1But that doesn't mean he gets to run the bases, does it? It just means he's still at bat, with one more ball. Unless, I suppose, if it was the fourth ball, in which case he got a walk and then stole three bases.
- bruenig, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5No, you run if the ball hits the ground. I am sure you were taught colloquially that if it was a "dropped third strike" but what that really means is if the thing hits the ground.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncaught_third_strike- Cerebral, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Yes but watch the video again and you will see that there is a runner at first base which means the rule does not apply. Since I cannot understand what they are saying I cannot say but they never did show any view of the two runners during the pitch. Before the pitch you can tell that they are on first and third. Somewhere someone messed up.
edit: ahhh exception to the rule with runner at first is with two outs. This is what happened here. Pretty awesome!
- Cerebral, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Yes but watch the video again and you will see that there is a runner at first base which means the rule does not apply. Since I cannot understand what they are saying I cannot say but they never did show any view of the two runners during the pitch. Before the pitch you can tell that they are on first and third. Somewhere someone messed up.
- XISUPERMANIX, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Pierzynski was involved in a controversial play that occurred on October 12, 2005 in Game Two of the 2005 American League Championship Series versus the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. With the score tied and two out in the bottom of the ninth, with two strikes, Pierzynski swung at a low pitch from Angels pitcher Kelvim Escobar and missed, for strike three. Josh Paul, the Angels catcher, rolled the ball to the mound and left the infield. Pierzynski realized strike three had been called, but he had not been called out and ran to first base in case the umpire had ruled that the Angels catcher had not legally caught the strike three pitch (see Uncaught third strike rule[1]). Home Plate Umpire Doug Eddings indeed ruled that the ball hit the ground and then went into the catcher's glove,[5] so the pitch was uncaught and Pierzynski was safe at first. A pinch-runner, Pablo Ozuna, replaced Pierzynski and stole second base. Third baseman Joe Crede delivered a base hit three pitches later, scoring Ozuna for the winning run.
- AllScott, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1no no. I'LL have to email Jayson Stark, thanks.
- lsatkins, on 10/10/2007, -8/+4I thought the catcher had to drop the 3rd strike.
- se7n, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3I don't understand why they would walk off the field... a drop third strike isn't uncommon and the first thing that comes to mind is tag the runner out.
- protocoI, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Well, they were high schoolers... plus, the catcher wasn't sure if it was a strike. He popped up after the ball was in the dirt to hold the runners, but then had to check with the plate ump who checked with the first base ump, THEN got the ruling. So, a lot went on in his head, fielding the ball, then holding the runners, then checking, then double checking... If it was a full out strike, it would have been bad of him not to tag him, and still wasn't playing smart, but I think it's more understandable, especially because he wouldn't want to randomly tag a guy who hasn't struck out, plus, again it's high school, so they're not quite perfect yet, I guess.
- benbenbenben, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3So what if they're in high school? They teach you the dropped 3rd strike rule in little league! (Happens all the time to 10 year olds) It's not that complicated - granted, it was a really bad pitch to call a strike on, but you're giving the catcher way too much credit.
- protocoI, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Well, they were high schoolers... plus, the catcher wasn't sure if it was a strike. He popped up after the ball was in the dirt to hold the runners, but then had to check with the plate ump who checked with the first base ump, THEN got the ruling. So, a lot went on in his head, fielding the ball, then holding the runners, then checking, then double checking... If it was a full out strike, it would have been bad of him not to tag him, and still wasn't playing smart, but I think it's more understandable, especially because he wouldn't want to randomly tag a guy who hasn't struck out, plus, again it's high school, so they're not quite perfect yet, I guess.
- tloftus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Still the catcher should have tagged the batter or threw it down to first base. However, a new MLB rule this year is that if the batter starts heading for the dugout (which this batter did) he is automatically out, he can't turn around and run to first base. This is because of the playoffs last year during an Angels / White Sox game where AJ Perzinski took first base on a questionable dropped 3rd strike.
- CorpT, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1It was two years ago and not really that questionable.
- ziffel, on 10/10/2007, -3/+17All your bases belong to us
- LePetomane, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1This is Japanese high school baseball. Called "Koshien", it is a big event in the summer here. Some of these high school kids go on to big things, for example Red Sox pitcher Dasuke Matsuzaka, who in the summer of 1998 pitched some amazing baseball and went straight to the Japanese majors from high school.
- ilikecoke, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9It was actually the umpires fault - if you watch the video, you'll see him call strike three and then raise his hand in a fist and call the batter out...that is why the other coach was complaining - the umpire called the person out so all the players left the field.
- joe573, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1No, he was calling for a check swing. The batter never officially got called "out".
- TheRedNewt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Watch it again. You can clearly see the umpire raise his fist after calling for a check swing.
- manova, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Nope, he first pointed to the first base umpire to get a ruling on the check swing and then he turned around and made the fist. They don't show the second part on all of the replays.
- Cerebral, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1After watching the video and reviewing the rules he was not signaling that he was "out" but that the 1st base umpire called a strike on the pitch. Being that with two outs there CAN be someone on first and the dropped 3rd strike rule is in effect the coaches started yelling at the batter to run to first then well.... you know the rest. The team on the field just lost track of what was going on.
- joe573, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1No, he was calling for a check swing. The batter never officially got called "out".
- sture, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Blernsball makes more sense then this!
- HabboX, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7The umpire called him out. On a dropped third pitch the umpire calls the strike, but doesn't call the out. If the umpire calls the out, the play is dead and the inning is over. The umpire made a mistake and called the out, but the bigger mistake was allowing the run since the play was dead.
- falstaff, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Baseball umpires can reverse themselves any time, it's not like football where the first call is final unless overturned by replay. You see it all the time where an umpire calls an out before he sees that a fielder dropped the ball then calls safe. When the camera cuts away, he may have corrected the call, but nobody saw it.
- ghm101, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3cricket makes more sense
- Jaywa, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I see what happened but one problem I have is it looks like from the graphic in the bottom right, first base was occupied. Not sure how Japanese rules are but isn't the batter only allowed to advance to first on a dropped third strike if first is unoccupied?
Also, it didn't look to me that the ump called the batter out..it looked like he was appealing the swing with the first base umpire...- dyslexicsUNTIED, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2you are partially right. from the mlb rulebook:
6.05
A batter is out when --
(c) A third strike is not caught by the catcher when first base is occupied before two are out;
so since there were two outs then he did have to tag him even though first base was occupied. probably because when there are two outs all runners would be advancing on anything anyway.
- dyslexicsUNTIED, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2you are partially right. from the mlb rulebook:
- OkinawanMatt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+31Here's the explanation (am I still the only Digg member who speaks Japanese?!):
The batter swung at the ball, which hit the ground first. The home base umpire requested for the line umpire to make the call, and that umpire declared the swing a strike because it was more than half a swing. At this point, the batter had 3 strikes, but with the rules of baseball, since the ball was not in the strike zone and it hit the ground first, the batter had to be tagged to be ruled out (3 strikes does not automatically = out). The home base umpire never saw the ball bounce, but he did not call an out - just a strike. The catcher and pitcher saw that the ball bounced, and as ball players (remember - this is high school baseball, not little league), they should have known the rules.
Since the batter was never tagged out, he was told to run around the bases and the other two runners also made it to home. Following the rules of baseball, it was declared that they scored 3 runs because of the catcher's error.
It happens once in a while in baseball.- HabboX, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3Yes, except the umpire DID call the out and the play was dead as soon as he did that.
- euarchonta, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1There's so many different rules involved with this, no wonder it took so long to rule on it.
There's the dropped third strike rule as mentioned above. But I believe that the runner has to be moving from first when the pitch is delivered (which it kinda appears that he was) in order for the batter to make an attempt at reaching first.
Then what happened to the ball? If it went into the dugout or the stands, the runner isn't allowed to take that many bases.
On top of that, there could be any number of baseline violations issued against the batting team. - DueceJ, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1How to NOT ending a Baseball inning?????
- twotimesthru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncaught_third_strike
- johnnyrocket, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Great find, totally interesting. I knew nothing of the uncaught third strike rule.
- Zoshchenko, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Stuff like this is what makes baseball the greatest game in the world.
- tehnico, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Whatever. Even when there's controversy and action, it take 6 minutes of mind numbing tedious discussion to unfold. ***** boring.
- Pureeviljester, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1your right. Futbol is the best! (soccer)
- tehnico, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Whatever. Even when there's controversy and action, it take 6 minutes of mind numbing tedious discussion to unfold. ***** boring.
- yankeeman515, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1to answer the question of first base being occupied is that on a drop third strike with two outs the batter can advance whether first is occupied or not. Although to do so the man on first must also advance.
- altwoodkane, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2How to NOT forming sentences
- winry, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7sorry for the bad grammar guys, not native english speaker
- YoctoYotta, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Don't mind them, they need to do something to feel better about themselves. I'm envious of you, I only wish I could speak two languages.
- winry, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7sorry for the bad grammar guys, not native english speaker
- underwise, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2When I was 8 this happened to our little league team :(
- hrhs556x, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1No it didn't, their are no dropped 3rd strike rules in little league.
- YoctoYotta, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I don't know what crazy league you played for, that might not be enforced in tee-ball but in my league and that rule was not only enforced, but coaches made a point of ingraining the tag out reflex when that happens. I was a catcher from the time I moved to a kid pitch level of play in 3rd grade and that was one of the first things the coaches made sure was understood at the beginning of each season.
What else didn't you have, infield fly rule?- Bethling, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1At least in "Little League" (the one run by the organization in Williamsport, Pennsylvania), there is no dropped third strike rule for the "Majors and Minors" (9-12) program.
- YoctoYotta, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I don't know what crazy league you played for, that might not be enforced in tee-ball but in my league and that rule was not only enforced, but coaches made a point of ingraining the tag out reflex when that happens. I was a catcher from the time I moved to a kid pitch level of play in 3rd grade and that was one of the first things the coaches made sure was understood at the beginning of each season.
- hrhs556x, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1No it didn't, their are no dropped 3rd strike rules in little league.
- professorChaos, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1he left the basepath; he turned back to his dugout so he is out
- kamesjang, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I really like that the umpire got a microphone and explained his call to everyone in the stadium.
- TheWiredNerv, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If this was in America, the field would be barraged by Budweiser bottles. x5 if at Fenway park, Red Sox v. Yankees.
- Pureeviljester, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1end a baseball inning NOT!
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