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48 Comments
- omgwtflawl, on 06/23/2009, -3/+22Don't worry, Massachusetts has some of the strictest gun control around. I'm sure there aren't any guns there. Right?
- Anightowl, on 06/23/2009, -3/+14Gun violence in a gun-free school zone? Unheard of. Good thing there are laws to prevent honest citizens from having firearms there.
- DankJemo, on 06/23/2009, -2/+9I am with you AmericanParty. If you make guns illegal, then only criminals are going to have guns. Now, that is a world I am not comfortable with. Guns don't worry me, people who own guns don't worry me. I have been raised around firearms for as long as I can remember, I was taught that they are a tool. You know what makes me feel less safe? When people who are law abiding citizens aren't allowed to have guns, yet the criminals still will have them. Now, that to me is scary. I don't think we need more guns, but effectively punishing the people who are going through the proper channels to get guns legally isn't going to solve the problem, if anything it is going to make things worse, the people who are on the fringe, and could ahve gotten a gun legally before may end up getting one illegally, and lets be honest... when has a law really stopped someone from getting something they've wanted in the past... Prohibition anyone?
- inactive, on 06/23/2009, -6/+12I love the logic:
Criminals have guns, how can we stop that?
Make more anti-gun laws!
Criminals don't follow laws.
Criminals have guns illegally, How can we stop that?
Make more anti-gun laws!
Criminals don't follow laws.
(repeat x 1,000,000) - Mercedes383, on 06/23/2009, -0/+5Nothing like escalation and disproportionate punishment to teach 'em.
- DrDragun, on 06/23/2009, -0/+5Oversimplified. Anti-gun laws let you scoop up criminals and lock them up often times before they have a chance to commit a violent crime. You can sting people trying to buy guns illegally, or illegally in possesion of firearms proactively rather than locking them up reactively after they've made a victim of someone's son or daughter.
Honestly what percent of shootings do you hear about like an honest wild west duel between 2 armed combatants, even in places like Texas where the honest people have guns too? 5% max? Just because you have a shotgun in your bedroom or a .22 ruger in your sock drawer doesn't mean that when violence happens in a public place you'll be able to do anything about it. It's a conservative hero fantasy not based in reality. - inactive, on 06/23/2009, -2/+6If its working so well, then why was the main article even written?
FTA:
"Like never before, the challenges of staying alive..." - mkvenner420, on 06/23/2009, -0/+4he is joking right?
"***** you can NEVER go to a party in boston thats completely chill... there's always ONE GUY in the back who's laying low cuz he just killed somebody the other day..."
-roomate's friend from Mattapan, aka MURDAPAN. - funkedup, on 06/23/2009, -2/+6Boston??? Violence??? I'm sorry, but Boston is far from a violent town...
- rizzo2008, on 06/23/2009, -0/+3isn't there that thing in the Constitution prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment?
- kingnova, on 06/23/2009, -1/+4MadKennyP:
You really, REALLY need to go to the logical fallacies page, as well as take a course in effective debating. Hell, take a course logic. SOMETHING.
It gets really tiring to see someone post a comment that is well thought out, delivering their opinion, followed by you jumping WAY out into left field with conclusions that have absolutely nothing to do with the original statement.
Let me give you a real world example:
Commenter: We should enforce the laws already in place, before moving to punish law abiding gun owners
MadKennyP: Oh, so nothing should be illegal?!?!
Commenter: No, we should enforce the laws on the books
MadKennyP: Oh, so let's let terrorists buy guns!!!
This is a common occurrence with you. You seem unable to discuss the points actually brought up. It is THE common thread in your posts. It's like you preface your posts with "I am going off the rails, just watch me!".
Guess what? When we live in a free society, some people are going to break the law. That DOESN'T mean you penalize everyone for the actions of a few.
Here is a link to the page covering logical fallacies. Take a look at your two posts, and see if you can figure out how many of these apply to you on a daily basis:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ - HurricaneDC, on 06/23/2009, -0/+3It's not the country, it's some ***** parts of Boston. Every big city in the US has its ***** parts. Yes, they should be carpet bombed.
- perogi21, on 06/23/2009, -0/+2QFT
- vtnerd, on 06/23/2009, -2/+4The reason that we are the US and you are Britain is private firearm ownership. We didn't want to be part of your ***** country back then and we don't care to adopt your idiotic policies now. You and your countrymen have lost the ability to stand up to your government and your civil liberties will slowly erode.
As a Virginia Tech student at the time of the shooting, I can attest to the fact that Marion Collins is a douchebag and an idiot. Virginia Tech, as you probably DON'T know, is a gun-free zone. Nobody is permitted to carry any type of weapon on our campus. As you can see, this idiotic policy ensured that 32 people would be unarmed and unable to defend themselves against an attacker. Furthermore, due to Cho's psychiatric care, he should not have passed the required background checks that he underwent to get his guns. We've established that a) existing laws pervented Cho from owning weapons (but were not properly implemented) and b) existing policy prevent Cho from bringing weapons to campus but yet 32 people still died. So, easy access to guns is not to blame in this case. Instead, the Board of Visitors is responsible for these murders because they, and they alone, are responsible for implementing the policy that prohibited Virginia Tech students from being able to arm and defend themselves.
On to the topic at hand, our founding fathers recognized that firearm ownership was an inalienable, human right. Our Constitution does not grant us this right, but rather prohibits our government from interfering with our inalienable, human rights. You have fun with your roaming bands of drunken youth who slash and curb-stomp random people on a regular basis and I'll be safe and secure knowing that I have a right and responsibility to safeguard my own life while you can only cower in fear and hope that no criminals decide to attack you or your family. - inactive, on 06/23/2009, -2/+4Call me crazy but I have a tendency to think that maybe the proliferation of guns in America might have something to do with all the shootings.
- vtnerd, on 06/23/2009, -2/+4This is not a logical fallacy and elmundio's analogy is pointless and false.
It is an innate, human right to keep and bear arms in the US. The Constitution does not grant a right to bear arms, but rather it restricts the rights of the government to say that the government cannot interfere with that right.
There is no such limitation preventing the government from interfering with a human right to kill other people because that is not a human right.
Additionally, hitting, hurting and killing are all illegal. If a person uses a gun to accomplish any of these things, it is quite clear that they would have acted with, or more importantly, without a gun. Making guns illegal does not deter criminals from assaulting or killing others any more than the laws that say "don't kill" and "don't assault" deterred them. - kingnova, on 06/23/2009, -0/+2"You and your countrymen have lost the ability to stand up to your government and your civil liberties will slowly erode."
LOL. Are you saying America's civil liberties haven't been eroding, or are you claiming we have taken to the streets with guns, to overcome the eroding of civil liberties?
If you are claiming the former, I am laughing. If you are claiming the latter, I am laughing again. This idea that we have used the 2nd amendment to protect our civil liberties may be the most unintentionally obtuse argument ever on the subject.
"You have fun with your roaming bands of drunken youth who slash and curb-stomp random people on a regular basis "
I'm not sure if you noticed, but this happens regularly in the United States. Homeless beatings/murders are some sick game. It isn't just a British issue. I gotta say it is you that sounds awfully fearful/irrational, and that is coming from someone with a CC permit. - vtnerd, on 06/23/2009, -1/+3So what you're saying is there is little correlation?
CA has some of the toughest gun control in the country and it's ranked #5.
Now that we've established that, maybe you can admit that 2A is more important than whatever false sense of security you get from supporting these asinine, unconstitutional laws. - DreadPirate, on 06/23/2009, -1/+3No, but thinking yet another gun law is going to stop a criminal when his possessing a gun is already illegal is the height of naivety. Why is that so hard to understand?
- rizzo2008, on 06/23/2009, -0/+2from your profile it says you are from the US...so why are you referring to it in the third person?
- jankind, on 06/23/2009, -0/+2Yeah, an assembly line killing machine won't breed an even more violent society!
- chesterogilvie, on 06/23/2009, -0/+1It's targeted violence, not random violence. The Cape Verdeans have been feuding for years but that obviously wouldn't affect you or I.
- funkedup, on 06/24/2009, -0/+1What are you insane? Boston and Massachussetts in general, are one of the safest places in the US. You obviously have never been to Flint, Gary, Camden, or even New York for that matter.
- squashpup, on 06/23/2009, -1/+2http://www.google.com/search?q=britain+gun+crime&a ...
- inactive, on 06/23/2009, -2/+3Britain has enacted laws that make it illegal for private citizens to own anything larger than a .22-caliber and subject them to thorough background checks. "I feel very safe," said Marion Collins, a college lecturer in Edinburgh. "Virginia Tech happened because guns are so accessible in America. I don't understand why they continue to allow this situation." Britain has one of the world's lowest gun homicide rates - 0.04 slayings per 100,000 people, according to the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey for 2004. By contrast, the United States has a rate roughly 100 times higher: 3.42 gun murders per 100,000 people, the survey said.
http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 ... - rizzo2008, on 06/23/2009, -1/+2yes it sounds like a brilliant idea actually
- inactive, on 06/23/2009, -0/+1They could just start playing Thunderball with a gun circle
http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/48697/detail/ - Quaterni0n, on 06/23/2009, -1/+2***** yeah! What we need are gun-totting vigilantes. What could go wrong?
- inactive, on 06/23/2009, -3/+3Carter, who received probation for the assault conviction, epitomizes the student-athletes in Boston who find ways to excel despite long odds against them.
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LOL - inactive, on 06/23/2009, -6/+6wow buried for showing statistics. lol. Are these NRA approved statistics my friend? Can I see your card?
- salinemist, on 06/23/2009, -1/+1Oh well, someone has to clean toilets for a living.
- inactive, on 06/23/2009, -2/+2usually gun control laws are reactionary, going both ways.
- elmundio87, on 06/23/2009, -4/+4yeah and while you're at it, make murder legal, because criminals don't bother following laws
- elmundio87, on 06/24/2009, -0/+0You'd have a point, were it not that your country has a massively high murder rate compared to countries that are "helpless" without guns.
- originaltinman, on 06/25/2009, -0/+0Hey seedsofwar you freakin rock! But please don't forget the demasculinazation of american males coupled with the loss of feminine identity secondary to the equal rights movement.
- seedsofwar, on 06/23/2009, -1/+1i'll gladly call you crazy. crime issues in our country, gun related or otherwise, are a symptom. guns don't spontaneously cause people to murder. they aren't the cause.
mix and match the constituents of the root cause from the list below:
- ***** economic climate
- collapse of family structure
- lapse in discipline, responsibility, self-respect
- disintegration of educational quality, as the US moves from producing to consuming
- constant bombardment and manipulation by media, advertisements, and corporations
- overexposure to information
- modern conveniences and services destroying self-reliance
- worship of celebrities, athletes, "musicians", etc.
- obsession with material goods and trivialities \
- poor work ethic
- lack of patience; everything has to happen NOW
- apathy
ok i'll just stop it there. this could go on forever. - SpruceCaboose, on 06/23/2009, -0/+0Selective editing:
"With his coaches, John Evans and Justin Desai, as mentors, Carter became one of his school’s best students and most popular leaders, earning him some good will when he needed to clear up his final brush with the law. He plans to attend Brandeis in the fall."
People deserve to learn from their mistakes, right? - lgarcia80, on 06/23/2009, -1/+0Cosby was an actor, not a Sociologist.
- mkvenner420, on 06/23/2009, -1/+0EVERYONE LOL @ HUMANITY'S INEVITABLE SELF-DESTRUCTION!
(it's the chaos gods I swear)
but seriously, at this point of discussion its just politics and /facepalming - mkvenner420, on 06/23/2009, -1/+0well said puddinman
- DankJemo, on 06/23/2009, -1/+0your sarcasm is appreciated.
- thescimitar, on 06/23/2009, -3/+2oh noes you exposed a logical fallacy. prepare to be buried into oblivion by people who don't like rational thought.
- EarlOfLade, on 06/23/2009, -3/+1"Like never before, the challenges of staying alive and staying out of jail have become as crucial for athletes"
WTF!
What a third world country!
When are you guys going to fix your crappy country? - inactive, on 06/23/2009, -3/+1I see... so we should allow terrorists to purchase weapons at gun shows?
Consider the following examples.
A manual titled, "How Can I Train Myself for Jihad" was found in September, 2001, among the rubble at a training facility for a radical Pakistan-based Islamic terrorist organization. The manual contained a chapter on "Firearms Training" and singled out the United States for its easy availability of firearms. It also named the states where Al Qaeda members in the United States could "obtain an assault weapon legally, preferably AK-47 or variations."
In Texas, Muhammad Asrar was arrested in an investigation of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He pleaded guilty to immigration violations and illegal possession of ammunition. The Pakistani store owner said he had bought handguns, rifles, and a submachine gun at gun shows since 1994.
On Sept. 10, 2001, just one day before the devastating attacks against the United States, Ali Boumelhem was convicted in Michigan on a variety of weapons violations plus conspiracy to ship weapons to the terrorist organization Hezbollah. He and his brother Mohamed had purchased an arsenal weapons from Michigan gun shows without undergoing background checks.
On April 20, 1999, in the deadliest high school shooting in US history, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold procured two shotguns, an assault rifle, and a TEC-9 assault pistol and shot 26 students in Littleton, Colo., killing 13 before killing themselves. An ATF investigation found that all four weapons had been purchased from private sellers at gun shows. Three of the guns were purchased by Robyn Anderson, a friend of both Harris and Klebold. Anderson said that she would not have purchased the guns for the teens if she had been required to undergo a background check at the gun show.
Branch Davidian cult leader David Koresh used Texas gun shows to make large gun purchases. According to an ATF arrest warrant, Koresh and his cult made "regular purchases of weapons and ammunition [from] flea markets and gun shows." Authorities estimated that Koresh had at least 200 automatic and semi-automatic assault rifles stockpiled, plus thousands of rounds of ammunition. In 1995, four FBI agents and six Branch Davidians died in an exchange of gunfire. Seventy six people died in a fire that destroyed the cult compound.
Timothy McVeigh, who bombed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 was a "private seller" at gun shows. He along with accomplice Michael Fortier, admitted to stealing $60,000 worth of shotguns, rifles, and handguns from an Arkansas gun collector's ranch and then reselling the stolen weapons at gun shows.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinio ... - inactive, on 06/23/2009, -5/+2So, nothing should be illegal since criminals ignore the law anyway?
- dikky, on 06/23/2009, -5/+1you guys should execute for violent gang related crimes first time every time, and work on quickening the process. Conviction -> death should be no more than 3 months and get rid of automatic appeals.
- sciencelovesyou, on 06/23/2009, -11/+7Actually, gun control has worked out pretty well over here. Gun violence in Massachusetts is ranked at 31 in the U.S. compared to Texas (15) California (5) and Louisiana (1).
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_gun-c ...
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