What is Digg?86 Comments
- grobinson, on 06/30/2008, -1/+23Isn't that what the special olympics is for. It's for people with handicaps(i.e. amputees).
They maybe at a disadvantage now, but eventually it will be an advantage to have arificial limbs. - suckanucka, on 06/30/2008, -0/+21As technology gets better, the prosthetics will continue to change from attempting to level the playing field.. to providing an advantage.
- Thrilltone, on 06/30/2008, -2/+22Why not let him drive a car in the Marathon?
Ridiculous coddling. - inactive, on 06/30/2008, -1/+21I don't see the fuss. Would it be fair if an amputee installed massively powerful spring loaded prosthetic legs and won at high/long jump?
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -1/+20why don't they just race prosthetic legs without the rest of the body?
- Scynet, on 06/30/2008, -1/+17To be honest, it's clearly an unfair advantage if you have light metal alloy feet, which are possibly even springy. Of course people say it's courageous when disabled people do pretty much anything, it's the socially acceptable thing to do. But when it becomes serious, such as competing in olympics, courtesy is replaced by logic.
Personally, I'd at least want strict limits for the weight, structure and design of the prostethic leg. That, or have a separate game for cybernetically and chemically enhanced people. It'll be a tough problem in not-so-distant future. - arjie, on 06/30/2008, -3/+14I don't see how this can be allowed. Someone not very strong could wear the XOS-1 and beat any weightlifter with not very much effort. That isn't very fair atleast.
I don't think it's courageous when amputee athletes compete against able-bodied athletes when they're using prosthetics. They should have their own separate games. When prosthetic limbs get more and more advanced, we may see the day when only prosthesis-enhanced amputees are participating in the Olympics.
Maybe we should just have men, women, and amputee events. That'll save all the trouble. On the amputee events, everyone can compete to buy the best legs. - edmcguirk, on 06/30/2008, -1/+9Do you know what the % between winning and losing in the Olympics is?
Do you really think that the tests are accurate to 1/10th of whatever that % is?
Are you even sure those tests are really measuring what it really takes to win? - AlexWiggy, on 06/30/2008, -3/+10We'll let you race, as long as you don't win.
- jessejardim, on 06/30/2008, -0/+7But they do provide an advantage. Maybe not a mechanical one, but definately a biological one. Because he has no muscle in his lower leg, there is nothing to get tired or hurt during a race. Only his quadriceps, hamstring, and hip flexor are being used to run, not his calf, shin, achilles tendon or foot.
Also, his prosthetics are much lighter than if he had real legs which means his upper leg muscles aren't working as hard.
Now, I give Oscar a lot of credit. To run a 46.33 in the 400m takes a lot of talent no matter how much of your body is real. But, competing against able-bodied athletes shouldn't be allowed because the two are not comprable. - blackinthmiddle, on 06/30/2008, -0/+6Let me fix one of your sentences
"The whole point is that rigorous testing was done *by a double amputee who has an agenda* to show that the runner's artificial legs DIDN'T allow him to run with less effort, or use his energy more efficiently."
There was also a test done to show that those graphite legs give an unfair advantage. Which test should we believe? Point is, you can't conclusively tell me that he doesn't have an unfair advantage. I say, let him compete in the special olympics. - t3heford, on 06/30/2008, -0/+6Is there anyone qualified to say they absolutely don't provide an advantage?
Being different from a real leg inherently gives the prosthetic different characteristics, some advantageous and some disadvantageous. There is no way to accurately compare someone with a real leg who works hard to strengthen every muscle to someone who has a prosthetic. - Spiderbrigade, on 06/30/2008, -2/+8Did anyone actually read the damn article?
The whole point is that rigorous testing was done to show that the runner's artificial legs DIDN'T allow him to run with less effort, or use his energy more efficiently. Therefore they DID NOT give him an advantage, and his ban was reversed. He might be in the Olympics (if he qualifies).
So all of this talk about rocket legs or whatever is completely irrelevant. - swicken, on 06/30/2008, -0/+6This is one of those things that was funnier when you said it in your head, wasn't it?
- Yonson, on 06/30/2008, -0/+5He's not handicapped. He's handiCAPABLE!
- idavidtang, on 06/30/2008, -1/+6It's all fun and games until someone gets jealous.
- saleem, on 06/30/2008, -2/+7this is the definition of "slippery slope".
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -0/+5I was going to make a joke about an racing leg "arms race", but I decided it would be distasteful.
- ysss, on 06/30/2008, -1/+5Apples shouldn't compete against oranges to simplify matters. Too many different variables to consider for 'fairness'.
- Kenzan, on 06/30/2008, -1/+5BIONIC LEGS F.T.W.
...Literally. - beesaretasty, on 06/30/2008, -0/+42048 if you're talking summer.
- dose, on 06/30/2008, -0/+4I'm thinking about getting metal legs. It's a risky operation, but it'll be worth it.
- dougmc, on 06/30/2008, -0/+4Actually, the Special Olympics is for people with intellectual disabilities, not necessarily physical ones.
And really, if you're good enough to participate in the real Olympics, you're not going to be very happy having to participate in the Special Olympics instead.
I seriously doubt the real Olympics have rules that prohibit people with intellectual disabilities from participating -- but they probably don't give any such people special treatment either.
In any event, without an intellectual disability, I doubt he's eligible for the Special Olympics. - citizenchan, on 06/30/2008, -2/+6And yet we have no problem fighting to allow Speedo's new suits, clap-skates, etc knowing full-well that other countries can't afford them. This is the same debate. How do we make sure the gear frees human potential, while not adding to it.
- lunachique, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3Go banana!
- chodaboy, on 06/30/2008, -2/+5I don't think they should have allowed them to compete to begin with. The prosthetics can obviously do stuff the regular human bones/legs cannot and this is an unfair advantage. I guess this will now lead to a rash of amputations among dedicated athletes now...
- Ganpachi, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3I have used a severed human leg as a driver, and I can attest that it is nowhere near as good as the graphite one.
- angrycat, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3Us meat legs can't give in to our artificially footed competitors!
If we let them compete with their fake legs, next thing we know they'll be using jetpacks. And history has taught us already what happens next, SLAVERY. - blackinthmiddle, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3While I won't call it coddling, he should not be allowed to compete because there's no conclusive way of proving he doesn't have an advantage.
Driver shafts in golf are typically made of graphite because of the extra springiness, and thus ball distance, achieved. One has to prove that graphite legs are 100% equivalent to the lower leg and I'm not sure anyone could come up with something that conclusively says that. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to compete against this guy. Isn't this what the special olympics is for? Edit: grobinson mentions the very same thing in the next thread right below this. - maxpower2911, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3Science has proven he has an advantage (look it up). This study was conducted by a professor with an agenda. No matter how the legs are constructed, you can't ever call a prosthetic equal to an actual leg. You can't enter an apple into an orange competition, no matter how much it looks like an orange.
- dougmc, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3That's unlikely, but not ridiculous.
Some people probably can become world class runners in only four years. But in this case, there will ALWAYS be people claiming that he's fast because of his artificial legs. That it only took him four years just adds credibility to the claim -- but the claim would be there anyways.
It's a rough situation for him. Even if he's permitted to compete, and he wins ... people will NEVER take his gold medal seriously. Some will consider him to be a courageous hero who overcame the ultimate adversity, but others will just see him as a cheater who got away with it. And there's no way to fix this, short of magically making his legs grow back -- and even then, people would still call him a cheat if he was still able to run at a world class level. because obviously he wins only because of his magically grown legs. - yosserhughes, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3Come on now boys, I thought you were all Python fans on Digg.
http://mzonline.com/bin/view/Python/BeingEatenByAC ... - erichw1504, on 06/30/2008, -3/+6Wait until they make a fuss about robots competing for the olympics in 2046.
...yes I have a time machine. - dougmc, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3This is digg. Distasteful is good, as long as it's also funny.
- qazxsw2, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3Whatever Pistorius is doing it ain't "running" - and he shouldn't be in the olympics.
It's ridiculous to claim that artificial legs offer no advantage/disadvantage in comparison with normal legs (whose ?). They're just not the same thing at all and they operate in entirely different ways. There's sure to be countless little differences in the running action and in the energy needed by many different muscles. - JakeyG14, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3I bet you have artificial eyes that let you read faster than me...
- bpoteat, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3I'm laughing just thinking of what was going through his head when he posted it. I wonder if there were versions he threw away.
- nreynolds, on 06/30/2008, -1/+4I don't see what the Fruit Racing Championship has to do with this.
- mal1964, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3Just because this issue until the end of mankind will always be a very slippery slope, I say not to do it.
- dougmc, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2That problem is hardly specific to this case.
Who worked harder? The athlete? His/her trainers? His/her coach? The person who designed his/her gear? Winning the Olympics is a team effort, and while the athlete may get the medal, it took a team of people to get him there. - Spartycus, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2Seriously, as an amputee, they dont have anything out there that is nearly comparable as my old leg.
As for technology changing things, look at the latest speedo suits, they are more buoyant and streamlined, and are expected to allow current swimmers to break existing records. Is that cheating? What about when fiberglass poles were first introduced to vaulting? What about thigh tech running shoes for better traction/cushion? - blackinthmiddle, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2You mean it was "proven" by someone who clearly has an agenda? Sorry, I won't take that as conclusive proof.
- dougmc, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2`The Olympics forbids anyone with any disabilities from participating. '
I can't find this cited anywhere. But if it's true, why are people even considering letting Oscar Pistorius compete?
Does an intellectual disability count?
What you've described sounds morally wrong. But that doesn't mean it's not the truth. But I would like to see a citation, if you've got one. A link to the rules?
http://impossibleuniverse.blogspot.com/2008/05/oth ... seems to give some counter-examples to your claim. A blind runner, an archer in a wheelchair, etc. - maxpower2911, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
- Barackalypse, on 06/30/2008, -1/+3Athletic competition is the human version of stock car racing, everyone is running basically the same hardware. Thats why men and women compete separately. That's why we don't allow steroids. That's why there is concern here, using lighter and springier prosthetics is different than bone and flesh. It has nothing to do with how we treat people with disabilities, its just the nature of the competition.
- Pronoiac, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2Genetic and racial differences are not a good comparison. Natural ability and talent are equally as important as hard work in any sport, bringing in technology to directly impact the event is not only unfair but isn't what the games are about. Imagine if someone chose to have their legs amputated and replaced with artificial ones, cheating right? In order to be a successful runner you have to preserve and work out all parts of your lower extremities and if someone never has to worry about heel spurs, plantar fasciitis, twisting an ankle, blisters, knee cartilage or shin splints it is an enormous advantage. If it was a member of the rowing team with artificial legs, your argument might be more credible but this would not be fair. I'm sorry that this person lost their legs, but what about all of the other athletes competing? It's not fair to them or the sport.
- blackinthmiddle, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2They already have it. It's the special olympics. I don't see why this guy doesn't compete there.
Let's take this a step further. Let's say he decides he wants to play basketball in the olympics, so he gets lower legs that make him, I don't know, 6'5" instead of 6'0". Does he have an unfair advantage? Or is the playing field just being leveled? There's a lot of gray area here, but I have a problem with this guy competing with able-bodied people. Go destroy everyone else in the special olympics. - maxpower2911, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2There was another study conducted that proved he had a 30% advantage, so let's not get all high and mighty yet.
- RussellDovey, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2He's talking about the Paralympics.
- Cenobite, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2He's a respected MIT professor with empirical evidence to back up his findings, but because his conclusions differ from your preferences, he is dishonest. End of story.
That's Creationist reasoning, right there.
If the IAAF (who I'm sure deliberated about this far more than anyone else) felt the evidence was strong enough to overturn the ban, then I'm happy with that.
As an aside, I'm not too sure about this but I think he'll only run in the Special Olympics if he had a mental handicap as opposed to a physical one. It's different from the Paralympics, isn't it? -
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