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Why Asians Are Better At Math
nomorequo.blogspot.com — And I'm not trying to be racist. We're talking demographic, aggregate statistics here. Awhile ago, there was a news story picked up by the Washington Post and many other major news outlets. Here's the Washington Post headline: "For Math Students, Self-Esteem Might Not Equal High Scores."
1KrazyKorean- 1305 diggs
- digg it
- pktgumby, on 10/12/2007, -80/+306Too bad math doesn't help when you're behind the wheel.
- stang966, on 10/12/2007, -62/+12Lots of Asian Diggers I see. Apparently driving is a sore spot.
- APHughes, on 10/12/2007, -47/+7because they do math for fun
- quomen, on 10/12/2007, -61/+5Hey guys I gotta go out right now but i'll bbl.
- milkmage, on 10/12/2007, -11/+154dude, you ever been to China? after being in downtown Shanghai and Beijing during rush hour, I'll never call another Asian a bad driver. I think they just send all the bad ones over here.
- TroubleInMind, on 10/12/2007, -17/+45Does this explain why they put those trifoil wings and coffee can mufflers on their mom's Civics?
- wtfersk8s, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26i got the Pythagorean therom down pat!
- DiggingDeep, on 10/12/2007, -8/+58@pktgumby: While I agree that some Asian Americans aren't adept at driving, it's safe to say that every ethnicity has their share of poor drivers.
I'm Asian American and I suck at math. So what? I thought we were done with this model minority crap. I'm just happy that I have some common sense which seems to be in low supply these days. - stockjones, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22I'd also ask why is the suicide rate so high in Japan, and how come countries like China and India have so much poverty? I wouldn't deny that many Asians seem to be good at math (not all), but this article is equivalent to me making the claim that Europeans could be commended for bringing about the Industrial revolution, human rights, child labor rights and modern civilization as we know it today. Everyone contributes. Most asians can tell you there is serious pressure to perform academically and I wouldn't consider it all very nurturing or healthy. And I say that as someone who is half asian.
- imperium2000, on 10/12/2007, -4/+46I hate these absurd stereotypes. I'm east asian, I suck at math, I'm an ex-Navy officer and I drive very well. Granted, I've done well academically but the reasons that asians do well academic is because our culture pushes education as important. My sister is a violinist and can't count worth a damn.
- enginbeering, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@milkmage
That depends on what your definition of "bad" is. Beijing cabbies seriously leave rubber going around corners, while I'm pressed up against the window in the back seat. - bIuebonics, on 10/12/2007, -3/+89now now, it's not fair to generalize bad drivers as being asian. women come in all races. ;P
- Vicissidude, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Asians aren't better at math. Saying they are is a result of bad statistics, as explained here:
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/03/09/why-johnny-can-read-simpsons-paradox-and-the-greatly-exaggerated-death-of-american-public-education/ - KidVicious, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17"I'd also ask why is the suicide rate so high in Japan"
18 hour work days + cultural history of venerated suicide
"Asians aren't better at math."
Did you *see* the chinese high school math question FTA? - frprod, on 10/12/2007, -21/+7They are also better are killing people. Those Columbine guys sucked..what a bunch of noobs.
- codelogic, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4@imperium2000
Obviously you only read the title and not the article. He clearly mentions that he thinks cultural upbringing has a lot to do with how people or a society excel in certain fields and not in others. This isn't racism, it's just a little cultural research. - bIuebonics, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3bah
- pifko87, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3You never see a Chinese Homeless.
Anyone? - KuntaKinte, on 10/12/2007, -3/+43new study results: why black people eat more chicken than everyone else
- Davey, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3I hate racists! I hate everything about them, their music, their food, their so-called religion, the way their men are so skinny and their wives are all so fat. But mostly, I hate the way they judge people based on tired stereotypes.
- Y0tsuya, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@pifko87
You've never been to Shahghai. - kelbear, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Perhaps having higher goals can get us Americans closer to the Asian levels of math, without the parents trying to destroy your self-esteem. Bump the curriculum up in difficulty and have the kids match it, instead of dropping it down and taking everybody down with it. How can a kid rise to the challenge if they never receive a challenge in the first place?
Asian education has a big problem in rote memorization and standardization of ideas. It's blunt-force learning through repetition, something that they probably don't need, and we probably won't need in order to catch up.
Cultural emphasis is important too. There's no cheersquad rooting for the Academic Decathalon kids. But tons of praise for the football team or the basketball. Sports vs. Academia. Sports has value, but much MUCH less than academia, especially with regards to the future of the kids. And the sports are not even inclusive, it's only for those who are on the team, and doesn't teach anything to the rest of the kids(the vast majority of the school). - chingy1788, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5"did you see the high school math question?"
In Australia, the HSC, 4 Unit Math has harder questions than that (the Chinese question)
3Unit gets similar questions to the Chinese Math Question
2Unit will get one the same difficulty for the final hard question
General wont even see it
general Mathematics get the easier question than the English math question
There are even Uni courses in Australia that supply easy questions like the English Math Question, its like called Math 1011 or something...
Then we get the hard ass questions in Math1141 (Higher MAths 1A)
I did Math1131 Maths 1A, and got a pass (54) and I'm Asian Australian
I know an Asian who got a higher HSC mark than me who failed Math1131
Thats just first semester of first year. 2nd semester is not easier nor harder
2nd year is hard as hell, the average mark was 4/10 for the Complex Analysis Stream
and 5/10 for Vector Calculus
I and a few friends failed both streams
To pass we must get at least 50%, taken from the average of both streams, if you pass one stream with flying colours(100% even) and miserably fail (less than 40%) on the other stream you fail the course and have to repeat, it looks grim for me and friends...
The questions depend heavily on the weighting of the question it has on the exam, and the course that is being taught
The chinese math question could be a question worth 5-10% in the exam (which is quite a bit)
and the english math question could be one worth 1% or less in the exam
If and only if the weightings of each questions and the courses are given then we could deduce which exam is harder
Not all asians are good at math either, just like not all other races are good at math - KuntaKinte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19new study results: why white people are whiter than black people...news at 11
- speaker219, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1This reminds me of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGR2clo57aI - superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5I think the advanced geom question is not fair. Most Americans don't learn advanced geometry because, frankly, it isn't necessary. There is no point in being able to decipher a shape like that. It is much easier to split it into its individual planes and solve.
Also, math in American schools is centered around Algebra. Trig is taught within an Algebra course. Geom is only taught for 1 of the required 3 years. All advanced years after the required 3 is still Algebra focused, with Calculus, Statistics and Differential equations prevailing. - macmcrae, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Bwahaha - lame article.Talk about pathetic self-handicapping. The reason asians kick our ass in math is not at all mysterious. Question: Do you know what a study hall is ? Find one on your campus and go there. Now count the number of white people you see . That is your answer. And why math? Because it is not biased towards any specific language.
- diggcopblowme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1imperium2000 rims me.
- Daiken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I have to disagree with the writer's point of view. He made it seem that Asian countries and students are somehow better than say American and European countries because they can do better at math and sciences.
The difference between the two education systems is that Asians have the belief that to succeed you need to do good at school, which does not apply in the west. In the west, the belief is that if you can find something you're good at, then you can be successful.
The result? Sure students might not be as good at maths in the west, but most people DON'T NEED TO BE. I'm obviously referring to higher level maths. Basic math is a necessity for everyone. Our society here in the west rather nurtures students and their abilities. Instead of forcing everyone into tough math and science courses which they don't like and probably won't end up using, only those students with a desire to learn go down these paths. And guess what, the bright students who do want to learn and use math and science are just as bright as the folk overseas. - MaVeRiCK42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Since we're talking about the Chinese, would "Why Chinese Are Better At Math" (or Maths) have been a better choice?
Around the world, 'Asian' varies greatly in meaning (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_people ). So to those in the USA it would mean Chinese, but in the UK it could mean Indian or from Indonesia! - lazyeyesam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2pifko87's comment was a reference to the Ricky Gervais podcast. Karl Pilkington observed that you never see a Chinese homeless person outside of China.
- rompom7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1chingy1788 is on the money, I saw the maths questions that made digg the other day, the English one was really basic stuff we learn in highschool.
- sail191912, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Asians may not seem to be the safest drivers, but skill-wise, Asians have extremely fast driving reflexes. Try driving in asia and you'll see what I mean.
"why is the suicide rate so high in Japan?"
I think it might be the culture. Someone from our Japan office committed suicide because he was so pissed at his boss. - neutralmind, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Is this the cause of this effect, as shown below?
http://digg.com/general_sciences/House_passes_legislation_to_increase_math_and_science_teachers - solarwinds, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"Too bad math doesn't help when you're behind the wheel."
That statement holds very true for me. A couple weeks ago, a Chinese delivery man crashed his car into mine while he was getting out of a park. He did NOT look in his driver's side mirror to see if there is oncoming traffic. I normally dislike stereotypes about ethnicities being good or bad at doing specific things, but this aspect really holds true about Asian driving. - JCGV, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I think the main cultural differents between asia and the US is that in the US you are succesful is you're a crack selling pimp with allot of prositutes working for you. At least that is what I understand from todays rollmodels. And for girls it being a dumb slut (Paris Hilton) or being a back up dance for the next half dollar music video.
Offcoarse not every american is like that, but sadly enough a large enough group is. - smpx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@stockjones
You can probably link both the "good math" and "high suicides" to social pressure. I spent a good portion of my childhood in East Asia, so I'll paint you a picture of what I remember.
As an elementary(!!!) school student, my day starts at 5:30am, both parents work so after cooking my own breakfast I take the bus across town and get in class by 6:40. The first thing I check at my school is the "school-wide ranking", to see if I'm still on it. Since population density is high, my school has several thousand students all trying to get on a considerably small ranking table. The smallest drop in grades result in falling off the ranking system, which is unimaginably unacceptable.
My classes end at 4, and immediately after, I walk over to my cram school (This is so common it's expected. If you don't go you might not be accepted by a good high school, which means you won't be accepted by a good university) where I study more until about 9. I go home, practice playing the piano for a couple hours, and sleep.
Rinse and Repeat. I just spent 16 hours on my academics, and I'm in the 6th grade. I may not speak better English by this time, but I have better grammar and spelling than most North American students. (I should, too. For every percentage I miss on an exam, I get hit on my knuckles by a bamboo cane-- this is regardless of what subject I'm taking).
Academics in Asia isn't what North Americans understand as academics, and math and sciences are amongst the most treasured. I've seen highschool teachers dish out ridiculous punishment to students who don't perform, and if it's the fault of the parents not providing, I've also seen teachers go to the student's home, and beg on their knees for the parents to help the students. Most of the time, teachers are very respected, very treasured members of society, and as a result they take their jobs much more seriously than we treat their counterparts here in North America.
What does all this mean? Asians aren't always better at math, just those who have understood the power of discipline, and take academics seriously. If the consequence of not getting 100 on that math test means: your parents will be furious and beat you, your teacher will be furious and beat you, you will be humiliated in public as your rivals overtake your place on the ranking board, you might not get in a good highschool and thus a good university and thus have any success in life, you won't be liked by girls as much...... you will make sure you learn everything you can. - babakshirazi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2
Westerners have realized that knowledge of math and science doesn't bring home the bacon. Asians are just pulling themselves out of poverty for the most part. The west underwent the industrial revolution long ago. Westerners are less inclined to study math and science because jobs in those fields pay next to nothing compared to business jobs like investment banking, etc.
Wasting your time learning a bunch of math you will never use is just mental masturbation. - scyform, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1*shrug*
Sure, it's a different test for entering a university, but if both a "smart" Asian and some random dude enter the same college for say, the same engineering degree, they'll both leave knowing exactly the same level of math with which to apply in real world jobs. Many kids from my high school graduated with multivariable calculus on their transcripts, so they could beast the SAT math as well as any Chinese immigrant. As for the kids that didn't, they may have to take an extra course here and there, but upon college graduation, they should theoretically be on the same level.
- greymaxcat, on 10/12/2007, -13/+69Why Asians look Better in School Girl Uniforms?
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -2/+163You may want to specify which gender...
- englishganxta, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3Eww
- jcao, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14hey man, that's only in Japan
- pegisys, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16"You may want to specify which gender..."
it may not matter to him :p - clemsontiger, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Ha, thats funny cause my girl friend is Vietnamese and she went to a catholic school and is ten times better then me at math. I always make fun of her for being so Asian even though she was born here. But she really is ridiculously smart.
- nikkilai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Yep. That's just the Japanese. Have you SEEN Filipino school girl uniforms? Ugh. I can't believe I used to have to wear these:
http://www.batch2006.com/imag_mindanao/06-07-06_1820.JPG - solidhubris, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Nikkilai, why would a guy have to wear one?
- nikkilai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8solidhubris, I'm female. I know we're a rare breed on digg.
- idonthack, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9A girl on the Interweb?
Lies. Lies and trickery!
- Shuk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+45Dugg for Russell Peters!
- ndawg25, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10hell yeahh! BEAT YOUR KIDS PPL.
- Azimuth1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+46"A recent BBC News story compared two questions, one from a Chinese math test and one from a math test from the UK. The difference was fairly astonishing."
Right, let's compare that original Chinese admission question
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42842000/gif/_42842559_maths_diagram_416.gif
To this question from several top English universities' (Cambridge, Warwick etc.) admissions test (called STEP)
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/stcs/STEP/2002paperII.pdf
Oh snap.
Because it was the BBC, and because they presented it in a clear and concise manner, they must have been telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth, right? They compared a question given to current students at a bottom-of-the-league-tables university to determine whether they're retarded or not, to a question given to applicants to one of China's best universities. That is not a fair comparison. The above is a fair comparison.- Scheissen, on 10/12/2007, -17/+3Man you limeys are dumb if that's what it takes to get into a college over there.
- englishganxta, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5Maybe to you, but atleast we learn GEOGRAPHY.
When I said I was going to England for a month, the person I said it to replied, "Nice! Are you going to drive there?" - bIuebonics, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2am i the only one incredibly disappointed with the mechanics section of the test?
- LTetraX, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3No, englishganxta, you're going to swim over there!
Oh wait, that's Paris. Nevermind. :( - superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I feel so special. I just realized (I sat down and tried some of the problems) that I actually know how to do these.
God I feel so damn smart right now.
go ahead, digg me down - MOGua, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@azimuth1
http://www.imo-official.org/results.asp?column=awards&order=desc&results=overview
With -only- 21 participations, China is number 1 in the world with the most gold medals in the International Math Olympiad.
China's record: http://www.imo-official.org/country_team_r.asp?code=CHN
UK's record: http://www.imo-official.org/country_team_r.asp?code=UNK
Here are all the problems from 1959 to 2006 in pdf for your enjoyment: http://www.imo-official.org/problems.asp
Be prepared, they are insanely hard. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'd say what you posted was fair. I did not see the original BBC article.
- diggityhot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I agree, the comparison the Royal Society of Chemistry made that the BBC broadcast was absurd.
The IMO scores are a very strong indicator of the countries ability to educate pre-undergraduate students but oddly enough it does show a pro-Chinese bias since the questions do not involve calculus which is the main focus in the UK for students between 16-18 whilst geometry is barely taught at all.
Further the Chinese geometry question could very well have been asked on an English pre-university exam, for example the Further Maths A-Level module P6.
The fields medal is the finest accolade in all of mathematics and whilst it is arguable that the UK has some weaknesses prior to undergraduate education, well, the following statistics speak for themselves.
Fields Medallists total | per hundred million (sorted by scaled population figure):
France 9 | 14.06
England 6* | 12 or (14 including Wiles)
Russia 8 | 5.63
US 12.5 | 4.15
Japan 3 | 2.34
* 7 counting Andrew Wiles who proved Fermat's Last Theorem and was presented an honorary award as he was too old for the Fields Medal.
Further, by institution, England's strongest university leads the table:
By Institution (involvement with Fields medallists):
1. Cambridge 8
2= Harvard 7
2= Princeton 7 - datr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I think the harder STEP III paper might make the comparison more fair.
http://math.mdsalih.com/Data/Advanced%20Mathematics/STEP/STEP%20III/STEP%20III%202001.pdf
- weizilla, on 10/12/2007, -3/+73As an Asian-Amerian with immigrate parents, I can tell you it is absolutely correct. If I ever told my parents I wanted to be an artist or a WWE wrestler or that I got a B in class, they would beat me with a coat hanger until I turned white.
- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -2/+37Education is stressed by other cultures because they understand that knowledge IS power. Sadly we Americans no longer encourage the engineering skills.
- Tenlow, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31Although once they beat you white you would have an easier time trying to become a WWE wrestler.
- stockjones, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13You are right education is stressed more in other countries. Its taken for granted in the States which is not good. At the same time, however, I know asians who have ill-will feelings toward their parents because of the pressure. Nurturing focus on education is good. Cracking the whip forcing it down your throat is bad. I don't want to bring it up and its probably rare, but looking at Cho's parents from the Virginia incident and knowing how strict some Korean parents can be, Im suprised more Cho's havent reared their head. The pressure some of these parent put on their kids is tremendous and it is not healthy.
- catsaregrey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0At least then you could get away with it.
- CapeKid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3While they beat you with a coat hanger you should have just "hulked up" it makes you impervious.
- dpl_, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1"...with _immigrate_ parents..."
I guess they didn't care much for your English marks. - Y0tsuya, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@stockjones
Your theory about strict parents has already been disproved by Columbine. Plus, many times kids will hold ill feeling toward their parents no matter what. It's called puberty. In the old days it encouraged the young to strike out on the own and procreate. These days it makes things awkward at home. - uberlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't think it has anything to do with which subjects we focus on, I think it has something to do with the school funding, and that students in America have more variety in their academic talents.
For instance, there are 5 people for every 20 in America suit to be an engineer (including me) Probably 1 of these kids will go onto be an engineer, but the others will do something else mathematical. The other 15 will go on to have different careers. As oppose to China where everyone is either an engineer or working barely enough to sustain life. (this was all made with personal observations) - JoeCool1986, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@monergism
Actually, american education is still largely skill oriented. European schools are the ones that focus on knowledge in general (arts, languages, history) rather than skills. Of course asian countries just focus on getting a really good education in general, whatever it may be. Each approach has its pros and cons. - sn0re, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Lemme explain something to you, the author and Russell Peters: Some white people do beat their kids. One of the most disturbing memories I have of high school is listening to some white classmates relate stories of their beatings. Unfortunately, the kids were not straight-A students like their Asian counterparts. They were major-league *****-ups who managed to fail *art* class, a class I passed by drawing stick figures. They were the problem kids, the ones who constantly bucked authority despite all of the corporal punishment their parents could dish out -- or perhaps because of it.
Moral of the story? Sometimes corporal punishment does teach you to straighten up and fly right. Unfortunately, sometimes it turns you into a *****-up for the rest of your life. Maybe it worked for you, but you should spend some time with the *****-ups before you decide to beat your kids. - superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The problem is is there is no cookie cutter way to parent, and some people are just not meant to parent, so these idiots go out and buy books on how to talk to 'little johnny' and he just flips em off and keeps playing with his Tonka truck instead of doing his homework.
What the problem in the US is is the schools don't have enough authority to counter-act bad parents.
Also, don't get me started on the weak curriculums in elementary and middle schools. - smackhero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3yea, asian countries tend to have very repressive cultures. imo this has an overall negative impact. a lot of kids become socially maladjusted, and asian countries like japan and taiwan have really high suicide rates. at my high school there was also a kid who killed his mom and his younger sister, then escaped to vegas in his dad's car before being arrested. he was a straight-a student and had really high test scores, but all the pressure just made him snap eventually.
- ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@SmackHero
I have to disagree with your examples.
Despite what some politicians in Taiwan might say to mislead the public, the actual figures published by the government and other official bodies show that by numbers and by ratio the numbers of suicides in Taiwan is lower than even the United States. I won't argue the high suicide rate in Japan (or Denmark and Switzerland though) and I think that doesn't have to do with parenting but also with social pressures. For every student that gets straight A's and snaps there are easily at least double the number of dropouts that have also snapped. - kayjay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0but then once youre white, they might not want keeping you from becoming a PRO wrestler any longer.
- BuckleButt, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6"For every smart, friendly Asian person you encounter there may be another socially maladjusted one."
Pwnt. - Blizzardman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21It's all down hill from here. Especially when they started replacing F's with E's and red ink for errors with lighter "happier" colors to improve self-esteem.
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I nominate teal. It's cool and stable, yet bright happy, self-esteem enriching color.
/sarcasm
//that's sickening - phaed, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@blizzardman
A teacher would get better results if in every test he would circle and comment on what the student got correct compared to the class than commenting on errors. In the former the student would be encouraged to get things correct more often. In the latter the student would get a rundown of all his mistakes and get discouraged by them.
Ive had teachers that have done that, Mostly you find them at your senior year of university. - awhiteflame, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"A teacher would get better results if in every test he would circle and comment on what the student got correct compared to the class than commenting on errors."
I highly disagree. If you know what you did incorrectly, you can determine what it is you need to improve on in the next attempt. Pointing out what was done correctly is a waste of ink. If you get discouraged by the amount of ink/errors on your paper, the fact that it's red, or the letter F instead of E, you evidently don't understand why you are at school in the first place. As a High School student, I don't want my teachers to dwindle around the topic, I want them to criticise my work so I can improve exactly where I'm at fault.
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I nominate teal. It's cool and stable, yet bright happy, self-esteem enriching color.
- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5Squinting helps.
- DeusNova, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4I would of dropped out of school in China around kindergarten. Sad but true
- 8177, on 10/12/2007, -13/+6I could do all those fancy problems. Or I can look at porn.
What do you think digg?
Digg up for problem.
Digg down for porn.- englishganxta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Lol its not even that hard, its all physcology... If you actually read it and look at the picture, its simple Geometry.
- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@englishganxta:
Yeah, just redraw it alot bigger, and start drawing each plane, labeling as you go, it is a whole lot easier.
then again, as a 10th grader, I have already mastered Calc 1, and taken several pre-engineering courses, so I guess I'm not your average student.
(I'm Arab, not Asian) - nickerj1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Average high school or average engineering? Because you sound like a typical engineering student. 75% of engineering students switch majors to something easier because they can't handle the math and physics. Of the 25% that remain in my class after four years, I can safely say we all had taken the equivalent of Calc 1 and 2 and Physics 1 before coming in.
- hunglowang, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Well Chinese tend to study frigging hard, when they move to America they study also as hard, then the next generation study less hard but still hard, then the generation after that realize that they dont need to study any more so they slack off.
....bonus points for whoever understood what i wrote.- madhouseradio, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3"Hard", I get it hehehe
+2 points - sail191912, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm from that slacker generation (although not from the US). My grades from college were on the 'bright & colorful' side. Good thing my parents weren't strict with grades.
- madhouseradio, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3"Hard", I get it hehehe
- englishganxta, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2This was on BBC.com a few days ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6589301.stm
and Digg: http://digg.com/world_news/Difference_between_Chinese_and_English_university_maths_tests - DeFex, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24its not that asians are better, The north american schools have been deliberately dumbed down because stupid people are easier to rip off (by the government and their corporate buddies)
- englishganxta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21it's the stupid "No Student Left Behind" thing.
- rnwen2750, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I dunno about *delibrately*, although I would say that pop culture has a lot to do with the pervasive laziness and general malaise.
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@defex
THe schools might not be that good, but it's not a conspiracy and it's the height of stupidity to suggest that. Occam's Razor, buddy.
- SomaSynth, on 10/12/2007, -2/+47I benchmarked the rendering performance of my basement full of asians. 3500 3DMarks. Not too bad, very good floating point output.
- wazzledoozle2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I lol'd.
- bIuebonics, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3best comment ever.
- DeFex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The BFA 2.0 driver development focused on optimizing the FP performance and achieved a 20% improvement! download now.
next will optimize the english main course selector! - TridenTBoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's nothing! I OCed my asians and now they are like frikkin' crasians! 18,000 3DMarks!! w00t
- phractured, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Well honestly there is a large amount of people in Asia compared to other countries, so there are more people to be good at math, maybe if we set up a proportion comparing people who are good at math to the population of a country we could see if they are really "better"
- LTetraX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This only works if we have the math skills to do it. Maybe we should ask an Asian for help. :(
- Limezor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2The difference between Canadian schools and South Korean schools:
Korean schools:
-have harder math
-have harder science (less biology, more molecules and such)
-are longer then Canadian schools (and most Koreans go to academy, which is like a second school)
-give no homework (however, academy does give homework)
-have very little "creative" classes (art, cooking, woodworking, sowing, etc)
-have very little "language arts".
-teachers hit students instead of yelling at them
Canadian schools:
-give homework
-are shorter (6 hours, 5 days a week)
-have a balanced curriculum (equal number of classes for each subject)
-teachers yell at students instead of hitting them because if they hit them, they would be sued.
-are more politically correct in general
-do more "creative" courses
-do more "language arts" type of courses
*note, I don't know about American and UK schools, but I am assuming they are, for the most part, the same.- phaed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Noones taking about Koreans ...or Canadians.
- Bumbaclot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0haha, Wat level of math is that? for both english and chinese!?!?!
- ElimGarak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Yup, the US state of education is awful. This fact is probably very closely related to the number of people in US that don't believe in evolution.
Basically, in Asia parents discipline kids, and make them study. In the US some parents go to the highschool teachers, and ask them why the teachers try to make the kids study. And produce functionally illiterate students.
It is freaky to seek that in some industries/companies 85-95% of all the people are immigrants. - Fhionnlaoch, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Once you get past the first generation of immigration, these super-Asian skillz in math soon disappear.
Plus those Asians who immigrate are likely to be richer, and their parents often invest in tutors and the like if their children aren't doing well enough.- kelbear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This is an important thing that most will never notice.
The immigrants are ***** MOTIVATED. They're coming from a huge pool of competition for entry into the U.S, likely successful enough to have the tens of thousands of dollars it can take to move here, plus they probably got into the highly competitive colleges. The immigrants are the most driven individuals a country can send because they really WANT an American life. Their kids will be born American and will have an American life handed to them from the start, and they don't appreciate how hard it was to get this life.
The immigrants are just hungry for success. The second generation kids like me are just born into the success of their parents.
- kelbear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This is an important thing that most will never notice.
- painted82, on 10/12/2007, -15/+4Maybe Asians are just smarter??? I remember when I was in school, I barely studied and got A's. I know many other Asians who just skim the book before taking exams and do quite well. Whileas, I consistantly ran into many mexicans and black people who wouldn't even get pre-Algebra in highschool no matter how hard they tried.
We are so much smarter than other races that top American universities make it a point to discriminate against Asians when we apply for college.
As for Asians being bad drivers, it's just a myth. Statistically, Asians are the best drivers. We don't get into as many accidents as other races who obviously don't understand that crashing into other objects is not a good thing.
I see a lot more Asians in professional racing (not counting NASCAR, where rednecks are still amazed that they can make left turns all day long) than hispanics and blacks. Oh yeah, those two races haven't even figured out how to make cars yet.- gherikill, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3The only reason Asian countries can make cars is because the Americans taught them, And they are very good at replicating.
- englishganxta, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Certainly doesn't sound like you got straight A's in high school to be honest.
- gherikill, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7If I had to choose a ethnicity to be good at math, I would choose the Jews. Eastern European Jews to be specific. Look at Einstein. I think that on average Asians may be better at math, but the standard deviation is also less. In other words, Asian countries produce very few genius level mathematicians, but everyone knows how to multiply.
- ElimGarak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Ethnicity has absolutely nothing to do with this. It has to do with work ethic - IE if the parents get involved and make their kids study, then they will appear to be "smart". Americans and blacks and so on are not dumb - its just that culturally their families are not making them study as much (on average). They also get to go to worse schools on average, and are stuck among peers that don't give a damn about education, reducing peer pressure.
Einstein is a special case - he is an aberration. Part of the whole European Jew thing is more of a work ethic once again. For centuries Jews weren't allowed to own land and stuff - therefore education played a much bigger part in whether they succeeded or even survived. Thus families tended to be more educated (social evolution of sorts), and thus their children tended to be more educated. Thus so many Jews ended up in hard sciences, and got the chance to enter into the history books.
- ElimGarak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Ethnicity has absolutely nothing to do with this. It has to do with work ethic - IE if the parents get involved and make their kids study, then they will appear to be "smart". Americans and blacks and so on are not dumb - its just that culturally their families are not making them study as much (on average). They also get to go to worse schools on average, and are stuck among peers that don't give a damn about education, reducing peer pressure.
- robinator08, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Too bad they don't say how asian countries only give the rest results of their smartest students. The other 75% (probably higher) of the people don't even go to school. Take the real average, and the 'stupid' Americans with their 'silly' ideals of educating everyone will look far above average.
- ElimGarak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's a separate question. Look at the education level in (former) USSR - higher literacy rate (than the US and some other places), actual entrance exams into college (pretty difficult ones), etc. And 100% of the students go to school.
- mikev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8i'm not asian (i'm greek), but the part about parents = spot on. my parents grew up with literally nothing, and always told me the one thing that can't be taken away from you is education.
- scotticus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Unless you have a stroke.
Or take up pot smoking. - AeonTorpor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@scoticus
.... 50% is an F.... - kaiserh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My dad was also an immigrant and said the same thing about education being the only thing they can't take away. Another thing he would say: "You have a choice in life, either work hard early and live a comfortable life. Or you can slack off and spend the rest of your life catching up."
- scotticus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Unless you have a stroke.
- Cherubim, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1All this proves is how indoctrinated into the left-brain education system these "students" are. Math is not much good when one needs interpersonal skills (which unfortunately a lot of asian people lack).
- missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6...so, what you're saying is that you're Asian?
- ujjwal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, what he's saying is that he's no good at maths.
- L33tmaster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The reason why Americans are less educated than other countries is because the schools aren't very competitive. You rarely see people failing and getting held back in K-12. People feel that their children are entitled to a high school diploma if they've put in their four years even though they're clearly not retaining anything they've been taught. That's why there's so much opposition to high school exit exams. I don't know if they do them anymore in California (they did when I was in high school), but it was a test that I could've passed in 4th grade. Nothing beyond basic addition and subtraction and the reading comprehension was a joke. Not to mention the passing grade was somewhere around 50%. If we punished people for doing poorly, we'd get a lot more effort out of them.
- uberlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I had a teacher who was complaining about how bad students were always mixed in with the good ones in Japan, Because the schools were competing they were afraid to expel any kids.
He greatly preferred the American classes as they were more open-minded and curious. So, in language and Social Studies - at least my teacher thought Americans were better. - nikkilai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oh, US schools are competitive. Just about the wrong things, mainly who's getting higher average scores on standardized testing because that determines how much funding a school gets from the government.
- L33tmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@uberlord I would agree that Americans are better at Language/Social Studies. But as a trade off, the majority of Americans have terrible math skills. Math itself may not be terribly useful for the average person, but it emphasizes logic, critical thinking, and problem solving which are things that Americans are VERY bad at.
Actually, most Americans have pretty ***** language skills too for all the English and History classes they force us to take.
- uberlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I had a teacher who was complaining about how bad students were always mixed in with the good ones in Japan, Because the schools were competing they were afraid to expel any kids.
- offwithyourtv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Is it weird that I had always wished my high school curriculum was harder? They didn't push people hard enough, and I'm guessing they push people now to a lesser extent. I envied how students were pushed so hard to achieve in countries like Japan that it made the struggling students suicidal. Expectations are too low in America because they're too worried about dumb kids' self-esteem. It'll be harder for those kids when they finish school, since the real world doesn't give a ***** about your self-esteem. The average and smart kids suffer because the dumb ones can't be left behind.
- imperium2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Education is stressed in asian cultures but the system doesn't work very well in Asian countries. Many of these systems depends on rote learning and doesn't teach critical thinking. In Japan, they have great technicians and salary men but not many great scientists or creative folk compared to the US. There's something in the US college/university system that works even when the general school system sucks.
- iamjames, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@offwithyourtv: "Is it weird that I had always wished my high school curriculum was harder?"
nope, i understand that. I moved from IL to KY my 9th grade year and they were studying the same stuff I was in 7th grade. - uberlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't find that weird at all. I don't have the same opinion, but It's not out of reach.
I have a great memory, and %90 of the work I get in my Honor's classes is completely unnecessary for me to learn the subject. What I need in math is not to practice, practice, practice, but to make connections in what I do, and try a few DIFFERENT problems to get the hang of it, instead of 20 identical problems and 2 problems that actually teach me something.
I wish I had less work, and I could spend more of my school time learning. To be honest, I wish I could be with my friends, but in terms of my education I think that is what would be best for me. - offwithyourtv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@imperium2000
I totally agree with you on that. I think it is important that schools allow for more creativity and a larger variety of skills like the American system currently does. I just think the minimum requirements are way too low. Every system has its flaws, and I certainly don't think schools in Asia are perfect, but I just think ours could be fixed in part by simply increasing expectations to a reasonable extent and not allowing failing students to pass to the next grade just for the sake of passing them. I just wish our schools placed the same kind of emphasis on achievement as those in Asia. I've read too many stories about children making it to middle school or even high school who can barely even read. The U.S.'s idea of no child left behind? Kids who aren't held back until they learn what they're expected to learn are left behind in the end. It's sad, really.
@uberlord
I also agree with that. I think we could improve our education system by rethinking how teachers teach as well as raising expectations. - tiger2base, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"There's something in the US college/university system that works even when the general school system sucks."
That's because in a University setting, your success is directly based on your work ethic. A university's job is not to "educate the masses" but rather to further the education of the willing. The beauty of this system is that (with enough money) a student who is willing to learn can do so for as long as he/she pleases. Also, material is delivered to the student at the pace of the course, rather than the pace of the class, which coming from a U.S. school, can make all the difference when classes begin to build upon one another. In a nutshell, the professors teach the material, and whether you understand it or not is based on your own discipline and knowledge. - mojaam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's ok to wish for high schools to push students a little more, obviously there will be a clear line not to cross that will cause extremes such as suicides. But there's great parity within US high schools already, I went to a terrible public high school due to location and was not really smart, just not lazy, yet I appeared to be in the top 10%. I think I kind of knew the false image the school gave me but after taking a few calculus classes in college, I really found out how much hs hurt me.
- DiggingDeep, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10How else would they be able to micromanage their resources in StarCraft?
jk jk - Eryin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Asians are better at maths because of the teaching method.
Asian americans are good cause their parents teach them at home.
Asian methods are strict and you follow each protocol to the end no matter what.
It is frustrating but it works. All you have to do is memorise the protocol for each type of question.
Which sounds hard but the asian languages are all like that aswell, the pronounciation has no link to the symbol for the word so everything is absolutely comitted to memory.
My mum always tells me that she had to write down words 100 times each time she forgot them. Theres no freedom or room for "thinking outside of the box" but damnit it works for maths and the language. What it doesn't work for is music and expressive arts. Which in turn are asians weak points (Yeah i know asians are stereotyped to be amazing at music, sure they can play chopin's 8th ballade upside down... but that's cause they played the same song 20 times a day for 2 years. They can play acurately, but rarely with any decent musical expression.)
Woops huge comment :(- ElimGarak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Naah. Teaching methods are a lot less of a factor. The question is whether the kids are made to pay attention in class. No matter how good the teaching method is, if the kid sleeps through it or doesn't go to school, he will learn nothing.
- imperium2000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Yo Yo Ma and other great asian musicians must lack "decent musical expression"?
- injury0314, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@eryin: Bravo!!!
You've got "generalization" down to an art form. - nikkilai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'll agree somewhat that Asians have some kind of better teaching method. Schools in the Philippines teach their students math at an average of 193 hours a week, whereas most countries teach anywhere between 107 - 145, yet Filipinos are scoring below average in math. I've been to school here, and it's because
1) Their teaching method sucks
2) Poor school resources. My math book was older than me.
3) Teachers who didn't even major in the subject they are teaching, because the Philippines will take literally anyone willing to teach because of their lack of teachers.
Now, we forget how ***** a lot of schools in the US are. The few that have good teaching resources, well-educated teachers, and efficient teaching methods do tend to produce good students. But what about the poorly-funded schools in the urban and rural areas of this country? - psykiv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@nikkilai
Obviously. Last I checked, a week only has 168 hours (7days x 24 hours).
Assuming we are both using the base-10 numbering system, 193 > 168.
Apparently studying even that much had no affect on you.
- funkmachine, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Ummmm, because they are cleverer?
Or do we live in a politically correct but totally factually incorrect world in which everybody is exactly the same as everyone else and there are no general differences at all between races? - WildBil, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1School Systems in the USA now are not underfunded, just not performance based, You can't fire bad teachers and they are saddled with a 2 layer management of bureaucrats & labor unions.
What this "No child left behind" crap really results in is "No child can Excel"
As far as the discipline thing goes its just sad, I was raised in the 60's and 70's and got a beating with belt on the bum when I deserved it, and it worked. Political Correctness now is turning out kids with no clue on consequences for actions or good ethics and morals.- uberlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I disagree. All of the things you said our solutions to problems started by under-funding. Bad teachers came about because they were the ONLY option. No Child Left Behind came about because there wasn't enough funding to support the GOOD kids.
And beating is simply wrong, learn with respect, not fear. I simply become defiant to my parents/superiors when they try to intimidate me, and every time they threaten me, I'm more likely to take defense the next time they expect me to do something. - WildBil, on 10/12/2007, -0/+220/20 had a good piece on this recently, its not lack of funding, its the lack of competition in Education.
View it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA
- uberlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I disagree. All of the things you said our solutions to problems started by under-funding. Bad teachers came about because they were the ONLY option. No Child Left Behind came about because there wasn't enough funding to support the GOOD kids.
- uberlord, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but in my neighborhood, the schools are terrible.
I'm atheist and the ONLY choice besides catholic schools is a public one. And the sheer lack of common sense put into these schools is ridiculous.
First: Teachers are held to far too high a standard when it comes to language and violence in class. I had a teacher who simply wacked a child who clearly deserved a full-fledged beating and should have been expelled for the things he said (He did get expelled eventually) and got fired for it, just for that, and she was a phenomenal teacher too.
Second: We're spending 1/3 of our taxes on the military... and 1/10 for unspecified stuff... less then %5 of your tax money goes towards my education. We can't afford teachers. I had a teacher who couldn't control his 45-student classes, and quit from the stress, we spend an entire half-year without a permanent teacher in our class. The problem is in all of California - teachers aren't being paid enough, and as a result there isn't enough teachers.
Third: Bad Teachers. Every year I seem to get at least a few teachers who simply can not control their class long enough to learn something. Teachers who only cater to a certain form of teaching - making lessons confusing and boring to alternate thinkers, and many other reasons. Some of these are due to over-sized classes, but more than anything, bad teachers. I've noticed that Social Studies teachers - although teaching my least favorite subject are always the greatest at explaining things and controlling classes.
I don't have a solution, but I know we need one. The best school in my area is ECHS - which only exists because of Bill Gates' funding. Our government could solve most of these problems simply by giving more funding. When I get out of these terrible schools, I'm moving. After I go to college too, because despite our terrible public schools, California has some excellent colleges =) - yatin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I agree with Azimuth1, that in fact, when it comes down to it, Asians are not really much better at math nor are they smarter than any other race. (Azimuth1 more accurate comparison seems to verify this.) Also, simply look at the fact that the majority of the world's most influential scientists are from western countries. Sure, the Chinese may have discovered the Pythagorean theorem way before Pythagoras (or something like that), but for example, look Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr, Steven Hawking... how come no Asian names are as famous as these. In fact the only one of which i can think (off the top of my head) is Chandrasekhar, the astrophysicist.
Sure, you can say whatever you want about Asian culture valuing education and all that, but all it comes down to is that there are more Asians. Because of that, its phenomenally more difficult to get a good education or a good job b/c of the vast amount of competition. I think that's why when you look at second and third generation Asians in America, at least in my experience, they tend to not have the drive for success that their parents did. It seems it all comes down to the competition. - LeanenStreet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1They generally work harder, it is a cultural thing. Guess what group of students would always be in the library studying, independent of whether or not it was near midterms/finast? Yup, thats right asians. (the asian ladies also used to dig my crotch rocket way more than the caucasian ones:)
- beavercleaver, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1If Asia is the best place for Math, why is it that all most of the best institutions for the study of higher mathematics are in western countries? This article is racist garbage. A side note, algebra was invented in Iraq, but its not like they are at the forefront of mathematics education at the moment. The framing of this sort of information in the format ____ are better/worse at _____ hobbles any sort of intellectual utility this might have. Are Asians culturally better at math, genetically better at math, better at high school math, better at teaching math? A lack of precision in this regard makes the statement Asians are better at math only useful to bigots. I'd bury this twice if I could.
- scotticus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Well, I predict that will change with time. As East Asia becomes more prosperous, new generations of students will have an increased interest in pursuing higher education, which will lead to more Asian PhDs, which will lead to more and better Asian universities. All of this takes time.
Part of it is also funding for research... America does a great job (relatively speaking) of funding the sciences. If Asia manages to commit to funding higher ed, they'll become leaders in a few decades.
- scotticus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Well, I predict that will change with time. As East Asia becomes more prosperous, new generations of students will have an increased interest in pursuing higher education, which will lead to more Asian PhDs, which will lead to more and better Asian universities. All of this takes time.
- drjekelmrhyde, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4poles are good at math also
- tektalk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm good at math because:
1) I'm Asian
2) I came from a long line of family members who were also good at math
3) my parents will cream me and plaster me to a wall if I don't- scotticus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2#3 = bukkake?
- Efoi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Russell Peters owns.
- Porridge1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Q. "Why Asians are better at Math"
A. Parents
and yes Russell Peters does rock - scotticus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3It's because asians have small penises. When I was growing up, my huge caucasian boners would drain all of the blood out of my brain whenever my mind drifted in math class. With all of the blood loss, I wasn't able to think and I quickly fell behind. I imagine that if my package were smaller I'd probably have a PhD in math by now.
- Vinhdicated, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Upcoming Digg stories include:
"Why America Isn't a Colorblind Society"
Asian schools are a lot more strict and competitive, while America is having an education crisis where learning may be discouraged. - Ninnux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@milkmage
Nearly all the drivers you see in Shanghai and Beijing are professionals. Cars are still too expensive for average people to buy (although this is changing). Most Chinese you see here came on scholarship or work visas. This population, by definition, spent most of their life becoming good at a skill or general academic performance to make it to America. Two things may be said, then, about this group: 1) They didn't become professional drivers and therefore suck at driving; and 2) They are a self-selected population of mentally fit individuals. As such, they likewise spend a large amount of resources and energy taking care of the family and bettering themselves.
/Same with many Indian families.
//Married a Shanghaiese girl, and yes she sucks at driving, and yes she's a genius (Ph.D.)
///The greater Asian continent will again rule the world - monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://bp1.blogger.com/_Jj9C-44i7Lw/Ri9Jv8fNiBI/AAAAAAAAANs/hEo8i5qtxY4/s1600-h/math+diagram+chinese.gif
Hey you are staring AT the reason. They have problems that actually require using the brain! - eazhar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1does someone have the proof to the first question
- raz98, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3East Europeans and Russians are very good too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mathematical_Olympiad- Negyxo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2so, does this mean that it's just Americans and people from a small quarter in the Australian outback that sucks at math?
- raz98, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not only, most of Western Europe learning system as well as US system are a lot easier than Eastern Europe . We for example learn something in 8th or 9 grade that maybe in US is learned in 11 or 12 grade.
- thedez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It has less to do with where the people are from or what race they are and more to do with the fact that many are immigrant or first generation citizens. They worked hard and invested a lot of resources to get here in the first place so logic would state that they would have advancement on their minds. I'm pretty sure that the people they left behind in there homeland would be more like the average citizen here. It's just a matter of cream rising to the top. Similarly, I believe an American investing the equivalent of 3 year's salary immigrating to a foreign country would tend to do then the average native born citizen of that country.
- Spellder, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2A few days ago I met this blue-eyed boy. He has gorgeous eyes, beautiful body and this huge fat dick that barely fits my......oops wrong thread...
- Shaman760, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Parental involvement has alot to do with it as well. Asians typically have a tighter family structure.
- Comatose51, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There's a general cultural value among Asians that revere education. Whereas in the US athletes are revered, in Asia the intellectuals are revered. I've read that this is also very common among Jews and they're easily one of the other minority groups that does very well in education. The Jews without a doubt dominate the Nobel prize and areas of advanced research.
I think it's just culture more than anything else.
- Comatose51, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There's a general cultural value among Asians that revere education. Whereas in the US athletes are revered, in Asia the intellectuals are revered. I've read that this is also very common among Jews and they're easily one of the other minority groups that does very well in education. The Jews without a doubt dominate the Nobel prize and areas of advanced research.
- rlh1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3One thing to consider, what percentage of the population needs to be good at math and science ?
Maybe 10% will be scientists and engineers, 30% will be into some type of computer work, of those, maybe 1/4th will need to be good at higher math. Some higher math in business for financial analysis. Most won't need past basic algebra. So maybe 20% will need the higher math.... unfortunately, US schools are turning out kids who can't balance a check book.- etnu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If the government can't do it, why should the students?
- sephiroth965, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Japanese are good at everything...
- DreamSpirit3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Im asian and my parents allways tell me about how highly math is regarded there.
they put alot of wieght on my doing well in math.
Also, my cousin lives in india and he was doing calculus in 9th.
while was still figuring out the basics of algebra lol -
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