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When Religious Zealots Show Up at Your Door, Show Them This!

venganza.org — These Flying Spaghetti Monster brochures are in pdf format, 8.5 ″ x 11″, double sided. To save, right click on the link and save to disk. Print them out and convert the masses.

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  • zimmbear, on 03/11/2008, -17/+67A hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
    • NgrHader, on 03/11/2008, -1/+10I once answered the door to some evangelists and they left after 10 seconds of babbling, I was still half asleep with my hair all messy, when I looked in the mirror I laughed...for had devil horns
    • Cannon49, on 03/11/2008, -2/+7The war on illogical thought continues!!!
      • SuperWinner, on 03/11/2008, -1/+6Never fear, their war on reason is continuing as well...
    • jimv1983, on 03/11/2008, -2/+7The pasta the sauce and the holy meatball.
    • Ghiren, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3I could be wrong but shouldn't you be dressed as a pirate before handing that out? I don't think that a religious zealot at my door will wait for me to change.
      • russ3, on 03/11/2008, -0/+8Which is why you should always be in pirate costume, waiting.....
        • Clumber, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2Thus is shall not be a costume, but your traditional religious garb.
    • KenRay, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1The Hypno-toad will not approve of this. All hail the hypno-toad!
    • RexxxMaster, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1If it was real we would need *something* that could talk to it for us.
    • SuperWinner, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3Mirror (kinda)
      http://www.docstoc.com/docs/271784/Flying-Spaghett ...
    • WhiteHamster, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2yeah but one of the i really wish you didnt's says that you shouldn't brag about talking to FSM
    • Buckeye17, on 03/11/2008, -4/+5Why are atheists so arrogant and elitist?
      • uhhNo, on 03/11/2008, -2/+2Why are you so blind?
      • LeeSoong, on 03/12/2008, -1/+5because they are right, and religion is wrong.

        Christianity is just 1 step away from Atheism, because they praise Jeebus but
        ask them what they think of Zeus, Thor, Odin, Ra, Seth, Kukulkan, Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, or any other god - and Christians will say none of those other gods are real - with a straight face.

        The only good, if any, that comes from Christianity is a shift away from sky-deity worship and money grubbing towards actual humanism,
        - where helping, healing, and loving people is the greatest concept of all.

        It's important to remember that Jesus Hated the religious (Matthew 23:23-33)
        and preferred to hang out with the regular people...

  • Widgett, on 03/11/2008, -10/+101I have been touched by his noodly appendage!
    • Shaderone, on 03/11/2008, -1/+40RAmen.
    • BTConan, on 03/11/2008, -1/+16I wish it had been His noodly appendage that touched me :(
      • edwartica, on 03/11/2008, -2/+11Obligatory "That's what she said."
    • mrwizard14, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Isn't pedophilia one of the new deadly sins?
  • ReidFleming, on 03/11/2008, -5/+14Dugg but the typo 'Nitorgen-14' in the first PDF is annoying me. Do you think they'll re-do it just for a loyal follower? Unless that's not a typo and I'm an idiot (possible).
    • EXTER, on 03/11/2008, -1/+8There is also a typo in the second PDF. In one on the titles it says "Fying Spaghetti Monster" ( the 'l' is missing "Flying").
      • TwoDeuces, on 03/11/2008, -0/+24Maybe its a secret hidden message? Find all the missing letters and it spells out the secret code to enter the inner sanctum of the Church of FSM.
        • cosinezero, on 03/11/2008, -0/+7Scientology started on less.
        • Clumber, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2Next Tom Hanks blockbuster (snort!) movie : The Meatball Code !
    • MovieBlog, on 03/11/2008, -0/+6Okay, then add the misspelling of "Conclussion" and also the incorrect word in "FSM theory seems to be more valid *then* classic ID". Also capitalize "friday". I'm sure there are more, but I don't feel like proof-reading further.
      • nullifidian0, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Friday has a capital. At least in English.
  • valleyvideo, on 03/11/2008, -8/+145"Why Should You Convert?
    Our Heaven is WAY better. It has a Stripper Factory AND a Beer Volcano."
    • lolinyerface, on 03/11/2008, -0/+9I thought that read Bacon factory and Stripper Volcano. Too Early.
  • warner444, on 03/11/2008, -8/+10I am one with pasta, slurp
  • SHv2, on 03/11/2008, -5/+12Depending on how I'm sometimes partial to raptor jesus
  • TEHxINTERWEBS, on 03/11/2008, -8/+27In Spaghetti Monster we trust.
  • dotlizard, on 03/11/2008, -4/+43back in the day before the FSM, we didn't have any of your fancy PDF pamphlets to hand out. yes, when i was your age, when the religious zealots used to show up i'd run and grab a mouse (we kept plenty on hand, they are a self-replenishing food source), open up the snake cage (right next to the front door) and beam at them, saying "oh, you're just in time for the live animal sacrifice!". ahh, the good old days.
    • shaun1018, on 03/11/2008, -0/+4There was also the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
    • UglieJosh, on 03/11/2008, -0/+16You should have mentioned the bit about the snake before the part about the "replenishing food source".

      For a moment, one could infer that you were eating mice.
      • ebcreasoner, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Keep that red powder away from me. I gots some dumpster diving to do. Ooo, a tail!
    • Zippo, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2I used to say, "Oh, can you hold on a few minutes? I've got a sacrificial goat in the basement and those things kick like hell"
  • hillkiwi, on 03/11/2008, -6/+16I've already printed mine - I have Jehovah's witnesses that come to my door at 9am and ring the door bell REPEATEDLY until you come and answer it. This is a much better than my original plan, now I can put the shotgun away.
    • EpicSelekta, on 03/11/2008, -1/+18Answer the door naked. As long as your privates are behind the door, it's legal. Give em a bit of hip and it'll stick with them all day.
      • uhohzombies, on 03/11/2008, -1/+11Why would it be illegal? You're in your own home and they are making unsolicited calls. Wag your junk at them and I'm sure they won't come back next week.
        • EpicSelekta, on 03/11/2008, -2/+5Yes but if it's visible from the street, it's indecent exposure.
          • hillkiwi, on 03/11/2008, -1/+13That sounds like a wager to me.
          • Ph34rb0t, on 03/11/2008, -1/+3Not if you don't look them in the eye, well at least in Canada.
  • MagnumVP, on 03/11/2008, -7/+20Then when they tell me, "That isn't a real religion." I'll just point them to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7FcvEydqg Then tell them, here is my video proof that my God exist. Where is yours?
    • inspecality, on 03/11/2008, -0/+8Just tell them to give you one reason their God is real that also couldn't be used to prove the FSM is real.
    • mddawso, on 03/11/2008, -2/+2Here:

      http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ9IeO23nHQ
      • Fordi, on 03/11/2008, -1/+8Oh, man. I thought the 'banana proof' was a joke, but that's supposed to be serious, isn't it?
      • hillkiwi, on 03/11/2008, -1/+6You know what else fits perfectly in his mouth? God and his mixed messages...
      • madwormer2, on 03/11/2008, -1/+3Surely it would have been designed it to be eaten from the TOP (the other end) rather than the BOTTOM, had it been designed at all...
      • zeebo, on 03/11/2008, -1/+6I don't see how that proves the existence of your god, obviously the bananna was designed, but it was done by the Flying Spaghetti Monster last thursday.
        • cosinezero, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3Last Thursday is blasphemy! It was last tuesday!
      • strummy, on 03/11/2008, -2/+5YES the banana was designed, but not by God OR the Flying Spaghetti Monster... it was designed by Ceiling Cat... so he could watch us masturbate with it.
        this truth is so obvious that it is an atheist's worst nightmare!
      • Esstee, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2Well I'm convinced!
    • davidrools, on 03/11/2008, -15/+4I know I'll get buried to death for having an unpopular opinion, but the whole Russel's Teapot/FSM arguments fail pretty miserably. The idea is that there is this being (teapot/FSM/whatever) that cannot be disproved because it is unobservable and supposedly unfalsifiable fails because it can be shown that, in fact, Bertrand Russel made up the idea of the teapot and Bobby Henderson the FSM. These claims are substantiated with witnesses, documentation, and motive. On the other hand, you can't point to any group or individual who "invented" a god/God/designer/creator the same way you can show the manufacture of the FSM. And even though I'm a theist, I'm just as annoyed with fundamentalism and the hypocrisy of most organized religion as any atheist.
      • salmonmoose, on 03/11/2008, -2/+10I nominate the people who wrote the bible - its even easier with the new testament, because they just named it after themselves.
      • Conseal, on 03/11/2008, -2/+16Okey.. So now you're saying: "If it's so old that the source of origin is unknown, it's real."
        See where people with a rational mind might have a problem with that? It dosn't make sense!
        • davidrools, on 03/11/2008, -6/+3No, I'm not saying that at all. A lot of the biblical sources are known to a high probability. And of those known sources, none appear to be willfully misleading. On the contrary, many sources (e.g., Jonah and Mark, among others) depict themselves in a humiliating light, suggesting that they're not writing for personal gain.
        • DarkLance, on 03/11/2008, -0/+5or.... it was a collection of oral traditions and hearsay, combined and interpreted over 1500 years.... as a theist, you would know that the bible was written around 200 years after someone, possibly named Jesus, died. Many additions, modifications and exclusions have been made to the canon over the years, in fact such changes would often be unrecorded, as the people who ruled the land also ruled the church. You also seem to forget the major reason Christianity, and other monotheistic religions are the norm, one god, one king.... control of the subjects
          • Bulletbillx, on 03/11/2008, -1/+5Well all that and the many, many translations and retranslations had to have resulted in alterations even after all of those alterations. I've also heard of notes in the margins by other people working their way into the bible. So the bible is nowhere near what was originally said in the first place.
          • hillkiwi, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2It actually goes back much further in time - a lot of the stories in the bible were once used to describe the seasons for our first farmers. The Three Wise Men who found Jesus, for example, was originally referring to three stars that reach down to the horizon at the shortest day of the year, then slowing ascend back up again indicating the days will get longer (Christmas should really be on this day - Dec 21st).

            You have to keep in mind back then the vast majority of people were illiterate so they passed this information in specific stories to keep it accurate. Unfortunately something went horribly wrong and people started interpreting these stories literally.
        • JoeVet, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3@davidrools: So the motives of the writer determines if a god exists?
      • ebcreasoner, on 03/11/2008, -5/+2Do you not get the sarcasm that is there when comparing FSM and god? Please somebody... explain it to davidrools.
      • zeebo, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3Sure we can point to people who have done exactly that, in recent history we've had L Ron Hubbard create his religion with his own deification as its goal and the creation of a cast of heavenly characters (xenu), various UFO cults like the Raelians, sure they may call their 'god' Yahveh, but theirs is an alien much like Thor from Stargate, and its really quite common for a new religion to pull in aspects of an older one in order to make it seem more acceptable to the culture it was produced in. The modern Wiccan movement would be another example. Despite their protests to the contrary, there is no evidence that their religion existed in any form prior to its modern 'ressurection'.

        I should point out that despite the extremely common creation of religions within the Roman period (emperrors loved to do stuff like deify their dead gay lovers), they didn't consider Christianity a religion for precisely the reason you mentioned. They knew where it had started, they knew when it had started, and they knew older and very similar stories which it appeared to rip off.

        As for no human made 'creator' deities, what on earth is the FSM if not that? Did you not know that he created the world starting with the Mountain, the Tree, and the Midget?

        I suppose next you're going to tell me that J. R. "Bob" Dobbs doesn't exist and that my ticket on the spacecraft of the sex goddessess isn't real either.
      • SuperWinner, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3Best argument I have heard is the one that says the FSM created the universe 1 hour ago, and then planted all the memories of our lives and all the historical evidence of and aged universe just to cover up his own existance.
        Thats about as likely as gob and jeebus.
  • krahzee, on 03/11/2008, -9/+42I grew up in a raised ranch house. For those unfamiliar, think stairs 1/2 way up the front of the house so the front door is between 1st and second story.
    Anyway, as was habit, my father used to come home with groceries, reach through the railing and knock for us to come out so he could pass them up, rather than run bag after bag up a few at a time.
    Well about 2 days before Christmas one year my little brother head the familiar knock. Knowing my father was out he ran to the door to help. The day before we had bought him light up moose antlers (long story), in a dollar store, that blinked in sequence to and played the song jingle bells Trying to show he was a good sport about it he hit the button on them, threw them on and opened the door. Only it wasn't dad, but Jehovas' Witnesses. The first and only time I ever saw them give up without a word.
  • debuffplx, on 03/11/2008, -16/+1*****
  • Rowan187, on 03/11/2008, -7/+7Us Pastafarians are pleased!
    • sugarhigh4242, on 03/11/2008, -1/+4A Pastafarian priest molested me when I was little. Show some saucedamn sensitivity.
  • Sabazou, on 03/11/2008, -1/+15Some typos mar the overall quality of the brochure
    • JustJoe4Life, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Those errors are the work of the noodly one, to remind us that, unlike He, we are imperfect. Cheese be upon you.
  • BJLStorm, on 03/11/2008, -6/+4Mirror
  • BJLStorm, on 03/11/2008, -2/+9Digg effect destroys everything.
    • KingGorilla, on 03/11/2008, -1/+2It ravages the earth and leaves nothing but a desolate wasteland
  • harveywalbanger, on 03/11/2008, -2/+12124 diggs and it's already timing out... I wanna see!
  • EpicSelekta, on 03/11/2008, -3/+10Or you could answer the door naked and insist that they come in. They will never return.
    • alienunknown, on 03/11/2008, -4/+4What if they take you up on your offer? Then your *****... literally!
  • jjamesb, on 03/11/2008, -8/+0Oh man I hope somebody has a mirror for this, I've never been more proud to be an Oregon State student (founder is from here). Bobby Henderson is a cool guy I've been told by his college roommate.
  • noahgelman, on 03/11/2008, -5/+4mirror plz? thnx
  • grambones, on 03/11/2008, -4/+4I think this is a copy of it
    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/271784/Flying-Spaghett ...
  • skyshock1, on 03/11/2008, -3/+5Google cache - http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:rRYrEK8JuDcJ: ...

    Slow because of images though... use this for text only - http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:rRYrEK8JuDcJ: ...
  • TheLoneWolf071, on 03/11/2008, -5/+2Mirror?
  • chrgrose, on 03/11/2008, -10/+4I have been touched by his noodly appendage!
  • georgetds, on 03/11/2008, -4/+6I guess just saying sorry, not interested, and closing the door doesn't work for anybody?
    • s1mph0ny, on 03/11/2008, -4/+10It doesn't count unless you offend them back.
    • zmjone2992, on 03/11/2008, -3/+4not very effective. sometimes they return
  • purple8, on 03/11/2008, -3/+4I'm asked at least once a month if I'm mormon. I will now have my own scriptures to politely show in response.
    • IllBeBack, on 03/11/2008, -0/+7Do you live in Utah? I used to live there about 15 years ago and was asked the same thing at least weekly.
      • purple8, on 03/11/2008, -0/+5I do live in Utah. My favorite comment: "Wow, I'm surprised you're not mormon. You seem like such a nice girl." (I am neither mormon nor a particularly nice girl.)

        Mostly I'm cool with the mormons and it doesn't bother me, but once in awhile...

        • IllBeBack, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3When I lived there, they used the term "LDS" in favor of "Mormon." They were really all very nice people. I'm not religious but I do have a number of friends that happen to be LDS.
          • purple8, on 03/11/2008, -0/+0Yes, they mostly are nice. It's never easy to be in the minority, but it has gotten a lot more diverse in the past ten years or so.
          • WoollyMittens, on 03/11/2008, -1/+1Low density suckers.
    • edwartica, on 03/11/2008, -2/+6Every time I am asked that, I act like I heard "Moron" and get all offended.
    • Vindexus, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Pretend you've never heard of Mormonism.
  • SoxSweepAgain, on 03/11/2008, -3/+2Already can't get the link past their server.
  • cl2yp71c, on 03/11/2008, -2/+4*Printing*
  • IllBeBack, on 03/11/2008, -3/+5It would take some real meatballs to actually try this out.
    • stupidStan, on 03/11/2008, -0/+5not really...
    • Fordi, on 03/11/2008, -0/+9It would take too much prep; to do it convincingly, you have to answer the door in full pirate dress.

      Meanwhile, I'm thinking that on International Talk Like a Pirate Day, I'm going to throw on the regalia and go all Jehova's Witness on my neighborhood.
    • krummb, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1Why? I feel absolutely no remorse for someone that invades my private time. I have a no soliciting sign(this mean religion too!!), if you still want to bother me, fine, but I'm no going to be nice about it.
  • displaced1, on 03/11/2008, -5/+45You guys here for the gangbang?
  • tifoco, on 03/11/2008, -1/+1I am Kazakh, I follow the way of the Hawk.
  • kaeppler, on 03/11/2008, -4/+7Heretics! You will boil in eternal meat sauce for denying the Almighty Invisible Pink Unicorn (TM).
  • shaun1018, on 03/11/2008, -4/+8Ramen to that!
  • khoa1708, on 03/11/2008, -2/+11i use firebats to kill zealots
    • Bogus283, on 03/11/2008, -1/+1Maybe, but nothing can compare to a good old Zergling rush. [insert zergling noise that I can't spell]
  • dildoolielly, on 03/11/2008, -12/+69Ironically, there is more evidence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster than Jesus.

    Actually, one of the main reasons I denounced my Christian faith is because I can't find one single shred of evidence for the Jesus of the Bible. Not one artifact or eyewitness account. Not even in the Bible.

    Amazingly, we have not one Jewish, Greek, or Roman writer, even those who lived in the Middle East, much less anywhere else on the earth, who ever mentions him during his supposed life time. This appears quite extraordinary, and you will find few Christian apologists who dare mention this embarrassing fact.

    After confronting a few Church members with this new knowledge for lack of evidence, it became painfully obvious that these people seems to have NO interest whatsoever in scientific debate. It seems all they care about is re-affirming their superstitious beliefs of disturbing stories of hell and damnation and devils and eternal suffering and ramming them down the throats of unsuspecting children.

    I'd be happy to be proven wrong about this. But so far I haven't been.
    • zmjone2992, on 03/11/2008, -12/+1Well there are plenty of Christian authors of the time that mention Jesus the Christ. Not that that is terribly surprising considering they were christian already. True it is not during his lifetime, but there is mention of him. There is literally no secular mention of him at all however.
      • dildoolielly, on 03/11/2008, -0/+10If one of your loved ones was on trial for a horrible crime and all the "evidence" the cops had was hearsay from what someone said someone else said, would you agree to 30 years hard labor or eternity in hellfire?

        I'm sure I'll get an intellectual answer

        • zmjone2992, on 03/11/2008, -1/+2No, of course not. I was just pointing that out.
    • thedalyshow, on 03/11/2008, -11/+4http://ptet.dubar.com/ecw/josephus.html and show me how theres more evidence for fsm
      • dildoolielly, on 03/11/2008, -2/+16Christians love to bring up the names of Josephus Flavius, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Suetonius and others as testimonies to Jesus’ life, however, they couldn't have been eye-witnesses to him simply because they didn't live in his calculated supposed lifetime.

        How about historians who ~did~ live in that time? “Take, for example, the works of Philo Judaeus who's birth occurred in 20 B.C.E. and died 50 C.E. He lived as the greatest Jewish-Hellenistic philosopher and historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his volumes of writings, do we read a single account of a Jesus "the Christ." Nor do we find any mention of Jesus in Seneca's (4? B.C.E. - 65 C.E.) writings, nor from the historian Pliny the Elder (23? - 79 C.E.).

        If, indeed, such a well-known Jesus existed, as the gospels allege, does any reader here think it reasonable that, at the very least, the fame of Jesus would not have reached the ears of one of these men?

        ANY local university historian for the evidence indicating jesus was anything other than a manufactured martyr of the late 1st century CE.

        He/she will tell you that no such evidence of a "historical" jesus exists. His existence MUST be taken on faith, just like those who believe in Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and/or many other mythical characters.
        • zmjone2992, on 03/11/2008, -1/+5Do you have any suggested reading on that? I need to brush up on this again.
        • dullly, on 03/11/2008, -5/+1How about taking the pepsi ***** challenge I will pray to magical invisible green elephants for a week and you pray to Jesus for a week. Then see how your life has changed. I have no apprehension about praying to your elephants because I am very open minded and think you may be on to something. The fact that you will not pray to Christ or would be very uncomfortable or apprehensive about praying to Jesus should tell you something. You are fearful of the responsibilty that faith and morality shoulder.
          • dildoolielly, on 03/12/2008, -0/+2Its funny seeing Christians get pissed off with lack of evidence for the mythical Jesus. When you piss them off they start cursing like whorehouse bouncers. Even better yet, they don't recognize any irony in it.

            What matters is evidence or lack thereof. You come to the table with absolutely zero evidence for your astonishing, mystical, mythical "Bible-God" claims, tell me not to question your "faith" while embeding your filth into our political process while establishing law and you expect graciousness?

            Blind faith and refusal to consider people who demand evidence and have beliefs based in science and evidence as humans is probably the scariest ***** in the world. I don't give a damn what brand of ***** anyone believes until those beliefs begin to turn into laws and campaign platforms, then they've overstepped the boundry separating church from state.
        • Pulch, on 03/11/2008, -0/+6I will pray to Jesus for a week, and see if my life changes in the slightest. You pray true to the FSM, and see if it works any different than praying to Jesus. I believed in Jesus whole heartedly as a child, and prayed every week. I don't feel my morality has changed since I started questioning faith with reason. I can honestly say that I've prayed and believed it, whereas I would highly doubt you could pray to the FSM without still believing in Jesus. I accept your challenge sir!
      • TrevorBradley, on 03/11/2008, -2/+7"and show me how theres more evidence for fsm [than Jesus]"

        It's called *faith* for a reason. Sheesh...

        (it's very painful to have the worst of your arguments turned back upon you isn't it? Behold the power of FSM).
    • airiox, on 03/11/2008, -13/+4People are actually digging someone who has dildo in their username? Sorry to be skeptical, but umm... yeah...
      • alienunknown, on 03/11/2008, -0/+8Your jealous because your username has no "dildo" reference in it?
      • 7stitches, on 03/11/2008, -0/+8i hate to break it to you, but swearing or talking about sex is not a bad thing, burning them at the stake because their beliefs are different than yours is.
      • dildoolielly, on 03/11/2008, -0/+8-------People are actually digging someone who has dildo in their username?----------

        I'll wear my fancy garb for you next time...
    • Xondar, on 03/11/2008, -12/+11"Actually, one of the main reasons I denounced my Christian faith is because I can't find one single shred of evidence for the Jesus of the Bible. Not one artifact or eyewitness account. Not even in the Bible."

      I'm sorry, but the incredibly contradictory nature of this quote shows me that you're not very good at reasoning and comprehension. If your entire belief system is based on thoughts such as this, then you're probably better off believing in nothing.
      • DrMonkeyLove, on 03/11/2008, -5/+14What's contradictory about it? He chooses not to believe in something for which there is no evidence. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. I think it is a bigger quandary to have a belief system that has no evidence to support it in reality. All of my beliefs certainly have a foundation in evidence. If you're willing to believe one thing without evidence, then you should believe anything without evidence. That said, all hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!
      • dildoolielly, on 03/11/2008, -3/+8----------I'm sorry, but the incredibly contradictory nature of this quote shows me that you're not very good at reasoning and comprehension.---------

        Beliefs based on blind faith are utterly irrelevant. You can believe that cows came from outer space, that aliens created the universe, that people reincarnate into other life forms after death, or that a half-man, half god was sent by his father (and himself) to die for threee days and return to a place called "heaven"...

        You can believe ANY of these propositions but your believing them does NOT make them true or real. So it is wild conjecture at BEST.

        If what's true for you is not true for me there is no truth in it. Truth is an absolute, not some wishy washy idea. To say we have to believe in a "god" because we can't "disprove" a god is ludicrous. If this were the case, then we would have to believe in every single figment of mankind's collective imagination, such as Santa or the Toothfairy because we cannot truly "disprove" their existance either.

        What you think is a logical way of thinking actually fringes on the psychotic.
    • dangerbyca, on 03/11/2008, -9/+9Hey dildoolielly, have you ever heard of the 1st-century Jewish historian Josephus? Sorry, but there were people that lived the same time as Jesus and wrote about him.
      • nullifidian0, on 03/11/2008, -3/+4Yawn.
      • Rodman930, on 03/11/2008, -3/+6How about someone who actually saw him in action. Like the 5000 people he fed with magic fish, Or the people who were attacked by zombies after his death.
      • DrMonkeyLove, on 03/11/2008, -3/+5Yeah, there are a lot of people writing about the Flying Spaghetti Monster who have never seen him either. What's your point? It's living at the same vs. first hand experience.
      • ElGigi, on 03/11/2008, -3/+7Josephus born 37 A.C.

        Even if Jesus existed, he didn't lived at the same time.
    • ostracize, on 03/11/2008, -4/+9@dildoolielly
      It's very difficult for us 21st century people to think in first century terms. Of course now a days, someone like Jesus would be in every newspaper, on every station, and plastered against every webpage. Therefore, it is perfectly natural for us to expect a detailed description from many contemporaries who could record everything as he moved and spoke.

      But you need to appreciate the context within which Jesus lived. The society was almost entirely oral and writing was reserved for a very select few. And even those who did know how to read and write, rarely did so because it was such a time consuming process. Every letter had to be carefully written to ensure it would be preserved. Then this would have to be done many times over which takes a very long time. Most people couldn't read so why would they even bother. There was nothing about the culture that was tailored for writing because it was entirely orally based. Look at any text about the ancient world and you will see how this is true. Sometimes the only stories we have about the ancients didn't make their way to written word until several hundred years later and historians still consider them fairly reliable.

      At the time of Jesus and for decades afterword, everything was passed on orally just as it had been for thousands of years. The message continued to spread orally back and forth and there was always enough people around to correct mistakes in the stories. However, it soon became clear that someone needed to get this stuff down in written form before all the eyewitnesses died or there would be no one else around to correct the mistakes in the oral word. And so the gospels were written many years after Jesus.

      I think most Christian apologists will readily acknowledge these facts and it doesn't bother them because they understand 1st century Jewish culture.

      If you are serious about really understanding this issue and really would be happy to be proven wrong, I recommend reading Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" to better understand.
      • DrMonkeyLove, on 03/11/2008, -1/+4"Of course now a days, someone like Jesus would be in every newspaper, on every station, and plastered against every webpage."
        No, people like Jesus end up in mental hospitals for claiming they're the sons of God.
        • ostracize, on 03/11/2008, -2/+1Not if he were healing the sick and raising the dead. Crowds followed him not because of his claims, but because of his actions.
        • looselips, on 03/12/2008, -0/+2@ ostracize
          Before and after pics or it did NOT happen.
          Bible logic = terrorism based fear and superstitions
          Maybe gullible believers did not feel like burning at the stake or in the hell the swindlers suggested?

          Wet toothpicks glow when inserted into electrical outlets.
      • dildoolielly, on 03/11/2008, -0/+6-----------The message continued to spread orally back and forth and there was always enough people around to correct mistakes in the stories.---------

        You mean like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? "Gota get those "eyewitness" accounts before they all die? Your kidding right? You tell me to read something that doesn't contain evidence? Your post is a coppout, typical.

        Why don't you present what you feel is the best piece of evidence for the biblical jesus?

        I have a theory that magical invisible green elephants control the universe from their homes inside doorknobs. Prove me wrong and if you can't, you can send your tax dollars to my Paypal account as a "faith based" initiative
        • ostracize, on 03/11/2008, -3/+1I'm confused. There's really no reason to be so incensed.

          I'm only saying lack of contemporary writing is a pretty poor argument because there really was no concept of contemporary writing like there is today. In an oral culture, everything survives by word of mouth and those people had oral tradition down to a science. One of the ways they kept oral tradition reliable is to keep repeating the message and correcting the mistakes. You simply couldn't get far saying one thing when everyone else says the opposite.

          Think of a game of telephone. When you whisper the message around the circle, it gets lost pretty quickly. But an ancient oral tradition would be like playing telephone as a collective group where instead of whispering to your neighbor, you speak the message to the entire group and then your neighbor does the same thing, then his neighbor does the same thing, etc. Of course the last person to go is going to have the same message because he heard it many times and heard the corrections when someone screwed up.

          It's up to you to find the best piece of evidence for the biblical Jesus (or the best piece of evidence that he never existed). Lack of contemporary writings about him is completely ignorant of history and a very poor argument.

          If you want to know the answer, you need to keep searching. Again, if you are serious, I recommend "The Case for Christ". If you don't care, then butt out of the argument. Similarly, I don't care if you think magical invisible green elephants control the universe from their homes inside doorknobs, so I don't have to bother addressing the argument either.
          • dildoolielly, on 03/12/2008, -0/+5All that drivel and still you still have not one shred of evidence, typical. And don't tell me to read some book that is also without evidence written by some other nutball. You're delusional

            Do you really think it all began with a sanctimonious Jewish wonder-worker, strolling about 1st century Palestine?
            Christianity was the ultimate product of religious syncretism in the ancient world. Its emergence owed nothing to a holy carpenter. There were many Jesuses but the fable was a cultural construct. Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs. Don't believe me? Try and find ONE artifact. Also, following a star would lead you in circles. The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin. That idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses. Again, look it up.
            Historians and Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road. "Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure" ? Don't believe a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.

            http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

            Sorry but, Intelligent, educated, well-rounded, scholarly, non-superstitious, non-threatening, critical-thinking, balanced, emotionally & mentally healthy and socially stable people require historical evidence and scientific observation to make logical decisions. Untruths, mistruths are nothing but distractions to historical fact. People who are capable of intelligent debate, and not prone to "magical thinking" (one of the hallmarks of mental illness and psychosis) should confront such ludicrous claims especially when those psychotic beliefs begin to turn into laws and campaign platforms, you've overstepped the boundry separating church from state.
          • ostracize, on 03/12/2008, -3/+1@dildoolielly
            Wow,
            You have clearly read a lot of that same Jesus-Myth rhetoric but you aren't giving proper due to the other side of the debate, just nonsense that people like Kenneth Humphreys are feeding you. This puts you on par with the creationists who accept everything people like Ken Ham feed them about science at face value. To be a critical thinker, you need to understand both sides of the debate:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_hypothesis ...
            http://www.tektonics.org/gk/humphreysk01.html
            http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm
            And finally Lee Strobel's book

            Believe me, I've seen both sides of the debate and the hypothesis is more far-fetched than creationism.

            And I sincerely apologize for everything Christians have done to you and your country. You're clearly very frustrated. I wish as much as you that Christians would butt out of politics because it only drags the U.S. and Christianity itself down.
          • dildoolielly, on 03/12/2008, -0/+3------------------You have clearly read a lot of that same Jesus-Myth rhetoric but you aren't giving proper due to the other side of the debate, just nonsense that people like Kenneth Humphreys are feeding you..../non evidence snipped/------------------

            Just the facts, no need for all that crap, just the facts.

            -NO eyewitness to the Jesus claim. Not ONE (not even in the Bible!)

            -NO archaeological evidence, not ONE ancient work found that mentions Jesus

            -The Jesus story copies many direct attributes from earlier religions and the similarities early Christianity shares with then-contemporary religion and mythology is staggering.

            If you don't like the fact that there is zero evidence of a historical Jesus then publish evidence that challenges it. No more debates filled with fancy symantics, just back up your statments with actual science.

            How many times must we ask?!
    • paddleguy, on 03/11/2008, -5/+3Are you stating that the Romans did not document the crucifixion of Jesus? Pilate himself documented what had transpired. Jesus was here - that's indisputable, the question is was he the son of God? My thoughts are yes. Did it go down they way we are shown in the Bible? Probably not since it was put together by men after the fact. Do you have faith that when you turn on your light switch, the light will come on? I'm not sure why, because you can't see, hear, or smell electricity. Faith is a leap, you either make it, or don't.
      • dildoolielly, on 03/12/2008, -0/+3JUST THE FACTS, MAAM!

        -NO eyewitness to the Jesus claim. Not ONE (not even in the Bible!)

        -NO archaeological evidence, not ONE ancient work found that mentions Jesus

        -The Jesus story copies many direct attributes from earlier religions and the similarities early Christianity shares with then-contemporary religion and mythology is staggering.

        When you can show eyewitness account to the Jesus claim and/or archaeological evidence, I'm all ears
      • dildoolielly, on 03/12/2008, -0/+1Have you read anything at all besides what your Pastor has spoon-fed you?!

        Are you purposely overlooking that the countless references in the early NT are not to a crucifixion under Pilate, but to a crucifixion in completely unspecified circumstances, which is not the same thing at all.

        BTW, Paul mentions only the crucifixion, the resurrection, and the ascension, and presents them as having occurred in a mythic realm, rather than an Earthly one.

        Jesus's life as a living person can be disproven by the fact that Paul seemed unaware of Jesus's life despite writing shortly after Jesus was supposed to have died, with Jesus's biography first provided by the Gospels of Mark, John, Matthew, and Luke, written around the end of the first century A.D.

        A cult that demands that people believe in it or be damned to eternity in hell is essentially mind control.

        I suggest you locate the nearest university and set up an appointment to speak to a Historian in person. They can
        easily answer your questions. Christian leaders of being reluctant to teach early church history because it supports, rather than debunks, the idea that Jesus was a mythic figure rather than a historic personage.
    • tilleyrw, on 03/11/2008, -7/+2Jesus lived about 2000 years ago. Was he a mystical Messiah, Son of God? Only in the sense that we are all Children of God (or of the Divine).
      Jesus was a hippie who journeyed to the Far East = India and learned yoga and yogic philosophy. Why does so much of Christianity match yogic philosophy?
      When he returned to the Middle-East and began preaching, more and more followers liked his words. He became a political threat to the Caesar and was executed. No immortality or a Return during the Apocalypse. A hippie who preached too much and had too many followers.
      • Hypermarkalan, on 03/11/2008, -4/+2He was also known as "Josh," and he developed the martial art "Jew-do."
        • BabyWookie, on 03/12/2008, -0/+2I thought that it was Jewie-jitsu?
      • dildoolielly, on 03/12/2008, -0/+2Actually, I had to talk to Jesus twice tonight. He gave me two hard tacos when I had ordered soft. And the bastard didn't put any hot sauce in the bag either!

        Thats what I get for driving away from the pull-up window on a blind faith initiative
    • JoeVet, on 03/11/2008, -4/+4More amazing is that the "first hand accounts" ie the gospels were all written in greek and not the language of Jesus and his followers which was arameic. Its like the whole new testament is greek fiction that through the centuries became belived to be nonfinction.
      • PastorEd, on 03/11/2008, -3/+0Wow. I just... um... wow. Okay, here goes...
        Read your history. Who was responsible for the "civilization" of the ancient world? the GREEKS. Perhaps you've heard of Alexander the Great? Greek conqueror, educated by Aristotle? Pretty much responsible for expanding Hellenistic influence throughout the entire ancient world (with the exception of China... too far to march an European army, I suppose)?
        Yeah, that guy. Because of HIS influence, Greek became THE language of trade and commerce throughout Europe, North Africa, and Western Asia. Years later, the Romans show up, build a bunch of roads, draft a whole bunch of people from different cultures into an army, and march them all over the place. The main common language which allows all these people from different geographic areas to communicate? GREEK.
        Except by THEN, you have legions of Greek-speaking soldiers marching all over civilization, including Israel.
        So, THINK about this for a second... if you want to tell as many people in the most efficient way possible about the amazing thing that your god has done, are you going to use a regional dialect that only a few hundred thousand are going to understand? Or are you going to use the language that the vast majority of the Roman Empire is using for trade and commerce, and take advantage of the Roman infrastructure of roads and protected trade routes to spread your message as widely as possible?
        Still don't get it? Let's look at today, then. If you lived in Myanmar, and something incredible came to your attention which you were convinced the entire world needed to know about, would you post your oh-so-crucial information in Burmese, a language which hardly anyone on the planet can read (although the letters look SO elegant!)? Of course not: you'd use ENGLISH... not because English is a "better" language - not at all - but rather because it's INCREDIBLY WELL KNOWN.

        Okay, I admit, I started writing this reply in frustration, but seriously: pay attention to history; it gives you all kinds of great reasons for WHY people behave the way they do in today's world.
      • dildoolielly, on 03/12/2008, -0/+2----------------Okay, I admit, I started writing this reply in frustration, ------------------

        Thats probably because you are trying to prove something instead of learn something

        Just the facts, "Pastor"!

        -NO eyewitness to the Jesus claim. Not ONE (not even in the Bible!)
        -NO archaeological evidence, not ONE ancient work found that mentions Jesus
        -The Jesus story copies many direct attributes from earlier religions and the similarities early Christianity shares with then-contemporary religion and mythology is staggering.

        When you can show eyewitness to the Jesus claim and/or archaeological evidence, I'm all ears. Until then, stop

    • smrekar, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2I don't think this was legit. This doesn't sound like someone who put any research into the matter of making his decision. Sounds like he didn't know, so he asked a few people, they didn't know and he gave up. You would think he would atleast ask a pastor, read a book, do some research etc...
    • L4WL3RS34L, on 03/12/2008, -1/+1"Actually, one of the main reasons I denounced my Christian faith is because I can't find one single shred of evidence for the Jesus of the Bible. Not one artifact or eyewitness account. Not even in the Bible."

      Wasn't that EXACT same thing posted by some other digg user a few days ago? You just copy and pasted it, unless you're the same person.
  • wheresjim, on 03/11/2008, -2/+11I've found an engraved sign that reads "Occupant reserves the right to answer the door nude" keeps away Jehovas Witnesses, Girl Scouts selling cookies, annoying schoolkids selling magazine subscriptions, all sorts of annoying people.
    • TreatsTheBear, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3I like girl scout cookies. Any way to keep everybody but them away?
  • jimmoses, on 03/11/2008, -13/+9Everyone thinks it's so funny to mock the old religions. Well sonny, I've got news for you - Tomorrow the World Ends AND YOU MAY DIE!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qt9MP70ODNw
    • zmjone2992, on 03/11/2008, -2/+7Oh but we are mocking the new ones too.
    • alienunknown, on 03/11/2008, -2/+7Yea, whatever dude! Spend your life praying to something that doesn't exist, donating all of your money to religious organisations that are using you for this purpose and spreading hatred and prejudice.

      Religion is about control and money. There is no substance to it. Religion actually has nothing to do with "God".
      • zeebo, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3Right, but the Church of the Subgenius has a lot to do with "Bob".
  • ClevelandBrown, on 03/11/2008, -2/+4a stripper factory AND a beer volcano?
    • smrekar, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2im sorry to hear that your find button broke, let me help you.
      It has already been posted 4 times.
  • da_bradler, on 03/11/2008, -3/+4How dare you heathen diggers crash my noodly lords website.
  • Kyan, on 03/11/2008, -2/+19Maybe in 1,000 years there will be no proof of the FSM either. Then he will start gaining real popularity in Oklahoma.
    • senorburrito, on 03/11/2008, -0/+5oh wow
    • Hypermarkalan, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3The same thing's happening to $cient0l0gy, so I don't see why it won't with FSM.
  • Dundasbro, on 03/11/2008, -1/+10Am I the only person who read that as "When Religous Zealots Show Up at Your Door, Show Them *****!"? I think that would be more effective at anti-conversion, personally.
  • everfalling, on 03/11/2008, -2/+4mirror please.
    • senorburrito, on 03/11/2008, -0/+5seconded. his noodly appendage doesn't appear to have purchased enough bandwidth.
      • DrMonkeyLove, on 03/11/2008, -0/+3Blasphemy!!! He wanted this to happen.
        • cosinezero, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2No, we have free will! He just _knew_ it would happen.
  • shcotttty, on 03/11/2008, -2/+4when religious zealots show up at my door I usually use my firebats and medics
  • myass666mlong, on 03/11/2008, -3/+27***** religion
    • sakuraz, on 03/11/2008, -0/+6What if the child comes back to haunt you:S
      • nullifidian0, on 03/11/2008, -0/+6It did, and it's called scientology.
    • heartsblood, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1That's what marry said, look what happened to her.
    • smrekar, on 03/11/2008, -0/+1in about 100 years or less, reverse the sentiment.
  • mlfoley, on 03/11/2008, -3/+2Heretics. There are only Her Holy Hooves. They will trample all pasta She finds.
  • buddamus, on 03/11/2008, -1/+4I believe in the resurrection of Elvis
  • yellowcakewalk, on 03/11/2008, -2/+6Touching your OWN noodley appendage is still a sin in some religions.
  • BattMatt, on 03/11/2008, -9/+4oh, here we go again...

    Looky. You're "throwing out the baby with the bathwater". Just because some religions are idiotic doesn't mean there isn't clear and compelling evidence for the existence of a creator. Please read through http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/gods-existence.h ... with an open mind. You might be surprised...
    • Meccabilly, on 03/11/2008, -0/+2From the article: "The argument starts with the major premise that where there is design, there must be a designer.The minor premise is the existence of design throughout the universe. The conclusion is that there must be a universal designer."

      This minor premise is, in scientific terms, i believe called: a load of 'bulls**t'. The article you link to is so willfully ignorant and misleading It makes my brain cry.

      Basically it states - Design = designer, Universe = Designed, Therefor - God.

      You should indeed have an open mind, but not so open that it falls out of your head.




  • euvirtual, on 03/11/2008, -1/+5Blasphemy,
    There is only one true religion. The religion of Ceiling Cat. Ceiling Cat is real, I have seen him. Ceiling Cat created us all, so he could watch us masturbate.

    "Praise Ceiling Cat, who be watchin yu, may him has a cheezburger."
  • illumnat, on 03/11/2008, -2/+1There is, of course, only one true church...

    http://www.subgenius.com/
    • amatijaca, on 03/11/2008, -0/+0The best way to see the religious types run from your door is to tell them that you are a Communist. My father has used this technique successfully many times.
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