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- oskite, on 10/12/2007, -19/+305This won't work, because suddenly Vermont will be very, very crowded.
- Screwy1138, on 10/12/2007, -7/+192Well, until recently, republicans generally favored smaller government.
- zlintux, on 10/12/2007, -23/+193Sorry to rain on your misinformation, but your "fact" is severely wrong.
Behold what less than 2 minutes on wikipedia and a calculator produce:
Number of years for each party between 1900 and 1999 holding office:
Republican - 53
Democratic - 47
Now, 47% isn't quite "over 80%" ... but close!
And if you want to tack in the last 7 years on there, then it's 59 (55%) to the Republicans and 48 (45%) to the Democrats. - Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -13/+114For the record, this is not an April Fool's joke.
This may not be a bad idea, so long as as they do it at the same time as the Cascadia movement. The Republic of Cascadia, which consists of Oregon, Washington and British Columbia, was something even Thomas Jefferson was for.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_%28independence_movement%29
Maybe what the US needs is to be broken up. Vermont and Cascadia to start. Texas should be its own country too, and let them duke it out with Mexico. The south can become the Confederacy, Dixieland, or Jesusland, whichever they prefer.
Great Britain, Germany, France, Japan, etc all seemed to more well-liked by the global community after their empires were broken up. - emil1212, on 10/12/2007, -10/+99I like their thinking. Though highly unlikely, if Vermont even gets to the point where they actually vote on seceeding from the Union, more power to them.
- johnlandes, on 10/12/2007, -5/+86They can merge with Quebec when they leave. They will become maple syrup powerhouses
- LowRentDiggs, on 10/12/2007, -10/+65"This may not be a bad idea, so long as as they do it at the same time as the Cascadia movement."
I am 100% behind the creation of Cascadia. I really like the idea of North America becoming a federation of independent states based on regions. De-centralizing government is the main reason I'm for it. I have no idea if or how it would work but it would be nice if people in the Northwest could decide our own issues without having to ask permission from the people of the South and Midwest.
"They have chosen South Carolina as their republic:"
How can we make sure this happens? :D - jonathantneal, on 10/12/2007, -9/+63"who is more stupid, the people who turn this submission into a political debate, or those that don't realize the date this article was published?"
That's what they said about 8-bit ties. - nakile, on 10/12/2007, -1/+52Reminds me of this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/New_map_WEB.jpg - Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+55More on this not being an April Fool's joke:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vermont_Republic
Also look at the Free State Project, a libertarian movement which has chosen New Hampshire to be an independent republic as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project
Of course, where would a discussion about radical secession movements be without religious nuts? There's also the Christian Exodus, those who have decided that the US government is too liberal (even during the republican-controlled Congress during GW Bush's term). Their primary goal is to make homosexuality outright illegal, and build an America where religion (Christianity) rules, similar to Islam states. They have chosen South Carolina as their republic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Exodus - animaniac, on 10/12/2007, -11/+59So by your logic, potholes bad, kids without health care good. Cool!
- t3soro, on 10/12/2007, -2/+49"Just what everyone wants - to become a small, irrelevant, and land-locked country."
I don't really see the problem with that... - Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+52"I really like the idea of North America becoming a federation of independent states based on regions."
So did Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and the rest of the founding fathers. They never planned on it to become like this. Of course, the Federalist movement started (more power to the federal government than what the Constitution gave it) and it all went downhill from there. Abe Lincoln (the first Republican) is to blame for much of the shift in power to the federal givernment. - rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -9/+50Republicans were for small government when that meant staying out of Big Business' way. Now they're for Big Government because they give handouts to Big Business.
- d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -11/+49"^^ roads, hospitals, schools, police, fire-service......."
You know that states and local governments already pay for these services, right? - tkstock, on 10/12/2007, -19/+57@zlintux
-------- BEGIN MISINFORMATION -----
Sorry to rain on your misinformation, but your "fact" is severely wrong.
Behold what less than 2 minutes on wikipedia and a calculator produce:
Number of years for each party between 1900 and 1999 holding office:
Republican - 53
Democratic - 47
Now, 47% isn't quite "over 80%" ... but close!
And if you want to tack in the last 7 years on there, then it's 59 (55%) to the Republicans and 48 (45%) to the Democrats.
----- END MISINFORMATION ---
Actually, what he said was pretty close. In the period of time between 1950 - 2000, Democrats held the majority of Senate and House around 80% of the time. And, I used your precious Wikipedia too!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Divisions_of_US_Congress
If you drop in the last 7 years, the percentages drop some, but not much - we've had two tied Senates since then.
Let me sum it up for you if you don't want to take the time to go through them:
Senate (two year spans)
Dems: 20
Reps: 6
House
Dems: 22
Reps: 4
I know you'll probaby bury me because you can't handle the truth - so be it. But I told you. - look4alec, on 10/12/2007, -2/+40ben & jerry are also from vermont, what will we do? I couldn't handle an excise tax on their rich and fruity flavors
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -21/+53^^ roads, hospitals, schools, police, fire-service.......
- EBFoxbat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+35Bootleg Syrup, direct from VT, available now! ($69.99/gal.)
- nestafett, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31like switzerland? I lived there, it was great, if we had a little switzerland in the u.s!
yay! - LGFAlbatross, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33At least that border fence would be a whole lot less expensive than the proposed one on our southern border.
- redlemon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24man.. doesn't it bother you that those stoners are so active and vocal that they represent the stereotype of a person from your state?
- cyberdork, on 10/12/2007, -7/+29@zigamorph:
Ok, so the past 50 years, 1957-2007:
Democrats: 20years (40%)
Republicans: 30years (60%) - oskite, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23But what about Steven Colbert's Americone Dream?! Obviously it would have to go.
- gutistg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19@ all of the people arguing about years spent in power
Sorry to try to spoil your argument, but Democrats = Republicans and vice versa. - crashflow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20@johnlandes
they can make the new OPEC. the OMSEC, the Organization of Maple Syrup Exporting Countries.
if you thought the oil crisis was bad... - slezzzter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two?
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
--Thomas Jefferson
The constitution has the beautiful little secession clause just so these reminders can be sent without the blood of patriots. The Feds need this type of reminder that they derive their power as a voluntary concession (membership in the Constitution) from the states (who, of course, are given it by the people). - sc0ticus, on 10/12/2007, -14/+30"I would vote to get rid of government services entirely and spend my own money on those services. What can it provide that I can't get on my own cheaper?"
Yeah.... you let me know how that works out. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Constitutional US government no longer exists in any case.
A short list of why:
Common defense has been replaced by imperial conquest.
The borders are wide open.
Tens of millions of invaders are lowering the standard of living all over the 50 states.
Congress is largely owned and operated by the corporations.
The legal system is persecutive not protective.
The original intent of the constitution is now deeply buried by twisted precedent and obstruction.
Maybe not out right secession, but a reset is clearly needed.
With provisions to prevent the hi jack that has occurred.
As far as the first attempt at secession, Lincoln was clearly wrong in his vicious attack.
The very concept of "perpetual union" is a clear perversion of the concept of free states.
Slavery was never the issue and Lincoln's own words make that clear.
The 14th amendment did more to enslave than to free as it created the "second class citizen"
congress continues to batter to this very day.
. - LowRentDiggs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16You can count on it happening, the only question is "when?". It could be a thousand years from now, who knows. I really don't see this system, and where it's heading, lasting more than a couple of hundred years at most and probably much less. Some kind of revolution will have to happen and hopefully it will be peacable and an amicable solution for most.
- giveer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16@FallenOmen
"Keep your words tight lipped! If your Canadian you better honor..."
- If you're Canadian, we spell 'honour' with a 'u'.
"... your country and bever again talk ill of them."
Honour my country? I love my country I honour my country by not respecting the separatist ideal. I'll let them speak, but I don't agree with it. That sounds honourable enough.
"If your not CANADIAN...."
-- Oh, I almost forgot, the contraction of 'you are' is: you're, not your. That's twice now.
"...hence STFU and get the steppin"
And get the steppin? Are you actually capable of reasonable debate or do you make all your posts like this?
"all in all STFU anyway if you know whats good for yeah there cappy !!"
Wow. "stfu anyway" he says. Thanks for making the Canadian educational system look so mighty and top notch. I'm gonna go chew a hockey puck and dry hump some whale blubber I guess. - redlemon, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19i think you should all brush up on utilizing the space you are given to speak your mind more effectively!
- knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
- ksponge, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21In reality this has nothing to do with parties. It has to do with money and large scale industrialization of society with no new checks put in place to stop the figurehead conglomerates that emerged from that battle. However, those same conglomerates would not give up their consumers so easily.
- Egoist, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18tkstock beat me to it. This is a stupid argument anyway, but Congress has far more power than the President and are the only ones who can make laws and fund projects. The President makes policy decisions -- he doesn't enact laws or create new government branches at a whim.
If you want to measure who has been in power over the last 50 years, the parties within Congress are what you should be counting. Counting Presidential terms to measure which party has been in power longer is like kicking the tires of a car to see what kind of gas mileage it gets. /End Government 101 - redlemon, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20hdtv-
germans (just an example because i know for a fact) pay way more taxes on their income than we (americans) do. and it works over there. pretty well, i might add. just because an area is smaller than the us doesn't mean it cant support itself. in fact that notion is retarded. so dont ***** talk about intelligent debate on digg at 5 am. - redlemon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1420% of vermonts population is over 135 years old?
- Leomarth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13There is actually a small movement for this very thing. However, I don't think it would ever happen. The Civil War was about secession (not slavery as many thing it was -- the north still had slaves after the Emancipation Proclamation). And, if we allowed one state to secede, it would threaten the power base of the central government. We can have that, can we?
- knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I hold the Constitution of the United States of America to be among the wisest, if not the most wise document ever produced by mankind.
I respect a decision of a Court of Justice in the United States, as long as the ruling is not contradictory of the mandates of the Constitution of the United States.
In this respect, the ruling of that Court may be null and void as all powers not delegated and not prohibited by the Constitution to the Federal Government are then expressly stipulated to belong to the States or to the People.
If this Nation were to choose to divest itself of the Constitution, or any part of the Constitution, I would be no part of that treachery.
The Declaration of Independence was itself a declaration secession. "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
This is between the People and their God, should they desire to have One, otherwise they have Right to depend on their own Social Consciousness. - redlemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12edit: no, you're wrong. that was not why the southern states seceded. simpsons episode > you
- wageslaven, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13"The Civil War was fought to settle the question of secession, and it did. There is no such thing as "peaceful secession." Once a place becomes one of the several states, it's a permanent thing."
Thats some fine "Democracy" you got there. - Enchantrem, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14I call *****. we can't even let non-states be responsible for their own defense (Equador, Japan, Saipan, Puerto Rico, et al), why wouldn't we defend our own new landlocked dependant?
As for federal spending... a state can do for it's people the same things a federal government can.
I say, de-centralize, and let democracy rule. - darkmule, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@urusai:
Did it?
I have to agree with Jeanette here. The Civil War in no way shape or form amended or changed the written words of the constitution on the issue of secession. Going on the basis of 'just because the president said so' is not a basis I consider constitutional. Yes once a state joins you would assume they would want to stay, but if a state can vote to admit itself to the union, why can a state vote to exit the union? If all of the members within the state all agree with massive support behind them, what is the problem with allowing them to exist?
Like I said in my other post, power to them. Unless someone can remind me of where it discusses the area of secession in the constitution, the state should have a right to do what it pleases if in a democratic way -- abiding by their state rules. Hell, if California's legislature has the power to split the state into several smaller states, why cant a state secede? - jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14I think this is interesting... that the US Government might possibly mismanage the union so bad, that the union starts to fall apart...
interesting concept. I hope it doesn't happen, but Bush certainly is trying his best to make it happen - deepfog, on 10/12/2007, -23/+34I would vote to get rid of government services entirely and spend my own money on those services. What can it provide that I can't get on my own cheaper?
- gback2000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I have a flag with 49 stars. Perhaps soon I will be able to raise it.
- porcupus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I live in Vermont and am very active in this. Granted our local economy is nowhere near self sufficient at this point, and we would run into problems when the big companies do leave. Too many of our people work for the box chains. Burlington Bread is just one such project that has been picking up a lot of steam lately. Free thinkers are welcomed. Please if you are disgusted with the state of this country move to Vermont, move your business here. It is possible to make a living as a small business in our state.
- redlemon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12i mean you can raise it if you'd like. who counts wyoming?
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