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- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Or for those of us that can't troll the front page all day EVERYDAY it's a way to see something we missed the first time.
- robbh66, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14A single ship could hardly turn the tide of a war like WW2
- PhairOh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11While one aircraft carrier would have made little difference, I believe that duxxyuk was referring to the lack of foresight on the part of Hitler to realize that carriers would be important. In my mind, and the minds of many historians, the main reason for Germany's ultimate defeat in WWII is due to bad decisions attributed directly to Hitler, and this could easily be one of them.
Imagine if the German army had had 4 carriers at the beginning of the war. Despite their apparent inferiority to what the Allies had, their benefit would have quickly been seen causing newer and better carriers to be built. Imagine how much differently the Battle of Brittain could have gone if there were 4 aircraft carriers just off the British coast. Think of how differently the convoy system would have had to be in the Atlantic if there were German fleets, complete with full aircraft carriers and battleships, patrolling the waters. At the very least, a sizable number of American carriers would have had to been moved from the Pacific to the Atlantic to counter this threat, leaving the United States even more vulnerable in the Pacific.
WWII is filled with these kinds of "what ifs" and "if onlys" and this could clearly be a significant one. - cyberdork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@ProximaC:
"America won because ..."
because the Russians broke the Nazi's neck first. - cyberdork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ChillHomie:
Great, so you think a weapon has to be designed to please the eye?!?
And actually it's was faster (33.8kn) than the US Essex class carriers (33kn). - procdaddy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I heart WWII stuff.
- Charlesbian, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Anyone looking to experience this beast in a quasi-realistic atmosphere should try out the free game Navy Field, surprisingly indepth. The thing is a beast ingame and I can only imagine what it would have been in real life if compelted.
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8How close we were to losing? We might have lost some more battles, but I'm betting that ship would have went down with in her first five battles. Carriers are PRIME targets for bombers, with the defensive placements as badly laid out as they were she would have depended way to much on other ships and her small amount of aircraft for protection.
- RoryH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6http://www.duggmirror.com/
- TrevorBradley, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Don't forget the ÜBERSCHWERER KAMPFSCHREITPANZER!
http://digg.com/offbeat_news/UBERSCHWERER_KAMPFSCHREITPANZER
or directly: http://surbrook.devermore.net/superpics/machines/mobilefortress.html - ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5In the time it took them to build one of these, we built a dozen. America won because we could out-produce and out-manufacture the Germans and Japanese 10 to 1 on a bad day. Not only could we build more carriers, but we could build more planes, guns and tanks, and produce more soldiers and well trained pilots than the Axis put together could.
This giant carrier is no different than the Japanese battleships Yamato and Musashi, which was the largest battleships ever built. They lasted exactly ONE battle.
Size isn't everything. - Homerr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yay for Goering! Between Hitler and him the Nazis had no chance to win.
- Conwaysb0718, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I find it amusing how many major historical events, possibly world changing, boil down to the fact that one guy really didn't feel like doing what he was told.
- Gerolsteiner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ ProzimaC,
I think I accidentally regurgitated a lot of your comment in a reply above without having read yours, so I apologize.
But, when you mention the Mushashi and Yamato, don't forget the Shinano, I mean, come on, the largest aircraft carrier in the world taken down by a single US sub? Ouch.
And you are right about the eventuality of our victory. The US won on the Western front with only 89 Army divisions, 87 in Europe, and 86 seeing battle. The original Army buildup plan called for over 200 divisions, when it looked like Russia was possibly going to lose the war. We would have managed indeed. - Gerolsteiner, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@ most of the above posters:
The crucial word in the differences between the air forces and navies of the Axis and Allies is recoverability. Resource management, per se. The Americans could repair aircraft carriers in a fraction of the time it took the Japanese, and could build the P-51D far faster than the Germans could build the Me-109G. At any rate, infighting within the Nazi war departments usually ensured that nothing productive was done on a strategic production level, with Goering always meddling in things.
I guess it all worked out for the best now, didn't it? - listrophy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Why is it that every time I visit damninteresting.com, I end up mumbling to myself "damn...that's interesting"
- thisissayantan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Neither the Americans nor the Russians nor the Britons won the war.. The whole war was the rise and fall of a madman. A remarkable motivator by any standards, Hitler destroyed his own empire due to grave tactical errors caused by his bloated ego. One such carrier, or 10 wouldn't have made much difference to the outcome of the war-- it would have only delayed the inevitable.
- Jagdhund, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's funny, because those are the two countries we (America) helped rebuild after WW2. Countries tend to favor you more when you rebuild their economies and start trading with them after a war. You know, instead of having them pay massive debt and devaluing their currency to the point where they get pissed and rise up and try to conquer you.
- eexlebots, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ProximaC
possible but if the Russians hadn't been mauling the German so badly on the Eastern front it would have been a hell of a lot more difficult...the only way the Normandy invasion was possible was because so many panzer divisions were yanked from "Fortress Europe" to try to halt the Russian advances.
Japan never declared war on Russia and tried desperately throughout the war to broker a peace agreement between the two powers they fought Russia before the war and kne wbetter than to poke at them for an extended period of time. Japan's refusal to declare war on Russia also made it difficult on Germany as Russia was not getting a pounding from both fronts, thus allowing their military to shove evertyhing into the German-occupied theatre. - ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Russia was similar to the US at that point in terms of being able to mass produce faster than the Germans. The Germans blitzed their way deep into Russia, but they were unprepared for an extended conflict. They hoped that Russia's cities would be as easy as Frances to occupy. They were wrong. The real killer for Germany in Russia was the weather. Far from home and under-equipped for extreme weather, the winter in Russia was devastating to them. It would have been for the Japanese as well. I believe Russia had the man power to fight a two front war with Japan at the same time too, just like we did. There simply wasn't enough Axis troops or materials to fight the two largest superpowers of the day at the same time. Japan knew it and as you said tried desperately to broker peace and keep it a one front war. Hitler was a greedy bastard though, and believed nothing could stop him. He literally believed that he was invincible between his military "genius" and his quest for religious artifacts to give his armies supernatural powers.
- thisissayantan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland.
On September 3, 1939 the United Kingdom and France declared war on Germany, followed quickly by Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
from wiki--
"
On December 7, 1941 a Japanese carrier fleet launched an unexpected air attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. The raid destroyed most of the American aircraft on the island and them along with two other badly damaged battleships eventually returned to service). However, the four American aircraft carriers that had been the intended main target of the Japanese attack were off at sea. At Pearl Harbor, the main dock, supply, and repair facilities were quickly repaired. Furthermore, the base's fuel storage facilities, whose destruction could have crippled the Pacific fleet, were untouched.
The attack united American public opinion to demand vengeance against Japan. The following day, December 8, 1941 the United States declared war on Japan."
Where was the US between 1939-1941? Waiting for the Europeans to wipe themselves out? - TricK2039, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4battle of Britain was a suicide mission for the Germans, the planes they used were far weaker for dog fighting and the such.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain#Luftwaffe_strategy - redrighthand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ever since the "how long can you live in out space" story I have been addicted to this website. It truely lives up to it's name of being Damn interesting. Keep posting the newest sotries this site deserves traffic
- SickFinga, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8@vertinox
Are you kidding? Germans doninated the air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_ace#World_War_II
USA wasnt nearly as good in the air in WWII - ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because you mumble out loud while typing the URL?
- ripcrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Looks like a converted ocean liner. How about all those port holes?
- cyberdork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No need for long disscussions about why America would have won anyways.
If the war in Europe had taken a little bit longer it might have been Hamburg and Cologne instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. - manicdvln, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Really? I hear it's going great in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am not saying that USA didn't play a significant role in rebuiling these two nations after WW2. But for countries to rebuild, there sure as hell must be a willingness by the host nations to welcome the foreign help and use it to their advantage. In fact, US aid to japan backfired in the 80s when everyone was claiming gloom and doom for the American economic independance, as Japan ferociously reinvested in USA and assumed to take over the world.
- vguard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They were probably too busy building flying saucers and cloning copies of Hitler.
- ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oh yeah! I had completely forgotten the Shinano. It was a battleship converted to a flat-top if I remember correctly. They built a huge superstructure carrier deck right on top of it.
- Stemp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Don't forget (I know you won't like it) that the French Air Force won the air battle against the Germans, and Churchill even said that the «Battle of Britain» was won (partly) during the «Battle of France»
20% of the me-109 were shot down, mostly by French Pilots.
For those willing to reply with «French surrenders etc...» don't forget the casulaties :
France Population : 42m Killed/Missing : 250,000 Wounded : 350,000 Total (Military) : 600,000 Civilian (deaths) 270,000
U.S.A. Population : 129m Killed/Missing : 300,000 Wounded : 300,000 600,000 Total (Military) : Total (Military) : Civilian (deaths) : none ? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Good thing we won, else everything would be in German. Much better than it's all Spanish, Korean, Chinese, etc etc . . .
- eexlebots, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ProximaC
possible but if the Russians hadn't been mauling the German so badly on the Eastern front it would have been a hell of a lot more difficult...the only way the Normandy invasion was possible was because so many panzer divisions were yanked from "Fortress Europe" to try to halt the Russian advances.
Japan never declared war on Russia and tried desperately throughout the war to broker a peace agreement between the two powers they fought Russia before the war and knew better than to poke at them for an extended period of time. Japan's refusal to declare war on Russia also made it difficult on Germany as Russia was not getting a pounding from both fronts, thus allowing their military to shove everything into the German-occupied theatre. - zaclohrenz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0DuggMirror seems to have not cached the photos... Is anyone aware of a mirror that did? All the ones I am looking up have not cached them.
- jambox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0come on, let bygones be bygones.
Roosevelt wanted an end to the British Empire and rightly so (I'm English BTW), so he waited until we were almost done for. - plingboot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3"Are you kidding? Germans doninated the air."
Not so sure about that, From what I understand the RAF pretty much wiped out their air attack quite early into the war, thus : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain - jambox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Okay, so what would have happened if Germany had left Russia alone and Japan thought better of attacking Pearl Harbour?
Would the US and Russia still have joined the war eventually? Perhaps, but otherwise the Germans had Europe more or less stitched up, plus the Japanese had taken more or less all of east Asia... - manicdvln, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2So what if the Germans and Japanese lost in WW2, they are still the economic powers of their regions. Japan is the 2nd larget economy, and Germany follows as 3rd.
Why fight with guns when you can control millions with the might of a dollar. - DejaVuDarkmist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Damn this thing is a beast!
- jambox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Yeah, the RAF PWNED the Luftwaffe!
Spitfires were fast and had big guns, Hurricanes were maneuverable and cheap to build, we used better fuel than the Germans (higher octane content - thanks to our American allies) and had a proper radar network in place. The RAF nearly ran out of pilots but fortunately were bolstered by Polish, Free French, Czech (and other countries') pilots.
And Goerring was perhaps the single biggest ***** in military history - had they built any heavy bombers, London probably would have suffered the same fate as Dresden and Tokyo. - ChillHomie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Oh yeah, one aircraft carrier would totaly have made us lose.
- ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4"because the Russians broke the Nazi's neck first."
Irrelevant, we would have won anyway. It would have been a different war without the Russians. It would have been more difficult because we would have been fighting all of the German troops instead of splitting them between two fronts, but the result would have been the same in the end. We had the numbers and the manufacturing to continue long after the Germans became depleted. - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3@"USA wasnt nearly as good in the air in WWII"
What you are talking about is quality over quantity.
Of course the US didn't have better pilots, it is just that the fielded so many pilots in the air while Germany's aces (even with better planes) could do nothing to stop the massive bombing campaigns or interdict the Normandy invasion.
Had having better pilots helped... Germany and Japan wouldn't have been carpet bombed to kingdom come with strategic bombers. - fletchdawgg, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0i tried accessing the site--it seemed to be crashed.
- ChillHomie, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4This thing is indeed a beast, it's ugly as hell and probably slow as a brick, terrible design compared the Americans Carriers. Would have been destroyed upon entering the water.
- pleaseluggage, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5OK, I see what you're aiming at, retracted. sorry
- loriencfau, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1http://www.duggmirror.com
- vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3Yeah, the Graf Zepplin was an interesting idea, but it wouldn't have won them the war. What Germany and Japan needed was experienced pilots and lots of them with a training program like the US.
The won the early parts of the war because they did have experienced pilots, but because of attrition they weren't able to keep up so they both were unable to prevent Allied bombers from hitting their home territories. - duxxyuk, on 10/12/2007, -12/+2Interesting information. Another titbit of info that shows how close we were to losing WW2.
- pleaseluggage, on 10/12/2007, -15/+2ummmm, what does that have to do with the post.
Spam? Convince me otherwise and I'll retract my comment. -
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