What is Digg?Sponsored by Best Buy
My wife likes to take pictures of everything. Got any ideas? view!
bestbuy.com - With a Kodak(r) EasyShareTM 3X Zoom, she'll have impressive 10.2-megapixel performance, right at her fingertips
216 Comments
- maxman137, on 10/12/2007, -17/+148The kid isn't blind though, he's deaf, thus complicating the situation. It's not like the dog is able to sign to him, so I don't see how it would do much good in a classroom setting anyway.
- NoNom, on 10/12/2007, -2/+122I wondered why a deaf person would need a guide dog until I read, "...trained to alert a deaf child to potential danger, such as fire or smoke alarms and cars."
Then I remembered this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXnpVk4MHBI
During school the dog wouldn't be as much use because of all the people around. However, I can see the use for it when going to and from school/bus stop. - pmcall221, on 10/12/2007, -4/+82These dogs are trained not to interact with other people. The dogs alert the person when an alarm sounds and can grab the attention of the owner when someone calls their name and can even point to the person calling them. These things are handy in a crowd situation for deaf people. Plus the school is setting themselves up for a ADA lawsuit.
- Ystig, on 10/12/2007, -3/+64Small people cling to small expressions of power.
- cameron074, on 10/12/2007, -6/+56"As John's parents stood across the street, about 100 yards from the school, Principal Timothy Voels and Assistant Principal J. Darryl Strabuk held the door open for other students but closed it when John and Simba tried to enter at 7 a.m."
jeez, doesn't really seem like that was necessary. if the kid needs his dog then he needs his dog. whats the problem - StarCrusher, on 10/12/2007, -3/+53>>He is deaf - not blind. What does he need a dog for?
It's possible that you have no knowledge of things you post about. Let me try to help you buy a vowel,
This is from the Department of Justice (you know, Federal folks, Washington guys who enforce laws?) It's on their web page devoted to questions concerning service animals. The page is at http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm
Q: What is a service animal?
A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.
Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. "Seeing eye dogs" are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
_ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
_ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
_ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.
A service animal is not a pet.
-more-
Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), privately owned businesses that serve the public, such as restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities, are prohibited from discriminating against individuals with disabilities. The ADA requires these businesses to allow people with disabilities to bring their service animals onto business premises in whatever areas customers are generally allowed.
I'm not a lawyer so it will take me a few minutes to research whether or not local schools are subject to the ADA but I'm betting they are. At a minimum, the school system is criminally and civilly liable for denying a disabled individual use of their service animal. Unfortunately, the law applies whether you've heard of service animals for the deaf or not. - d4nie1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+38Unless the dog has some kind of behavior problem that the article doesn't portray, I cannot imagine why the school would have a problem with it.
- DropZone01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+36@ mikesty
Yeah other people can alert him, but the article also stated that the dog needs to be around him all the time to be "bond" to him. This is so that the dog is always working. The dog doesn't know any different so it can't be given any off time from what it's responsibility is. I don't see there being a problem with the dog being there. It will also help the dog in a situation with a lot of people around so that there isn't a problem in a crowd any other time, it will just be natural for the dog to be in that situation.
Since nobody seem to have a problem with a blind person having a dog why do they have such a problem with a deaf person having a dog. Someone else can always lead a blind person around to avoid their dog their just as people are suggesting that other people can alert a deaf person that there is danger or someone is calling their name. The problem is most people don't consider something that is second nature to them especially if they aren't thinking about it all the time. The dog does. - ub3rgeek, on 10/12/2007, -7/+37Can you all get over the fact that an Assistive Dog is not a pet. He needs to have the dog with him at all times. It does not have to be a distraction in class unless the teacher lets the kids get out of hand.
A guide dog IS NOT just for blind people. Both Deaf and wheelchair bound people have great uses for them. Dogs for the deaf are used to alert them of bells and the like. Dogs for wheelchair bound people help carry things, pick things up or pull them if they have some muscular disorder.
This is a sensitive subject for me considering I have a wheelchair confining birth defect. The ignorance of people can be frustrating sometimes. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26Hooray for the two biggest jackasses on the news today: Principal Timothy Voels and Assistant Principal J. Darryl Strabuk!
How pleasant it will be for them years from now when they can google themselves and be reminded of what ***** they are.
The next step in this sad little story will be the lawsuit which the school will fight and lose, thus wasting taxpayer dollars and pissing away educational funding.
That is, assuming we are getting the whole story and that's a certified assistance dog. - d4nie1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26You didn't read the article. It says, "The Caves believe John and Simba must bond around the clock so that the dog can work most effectively as an assistance dog, trained to alert a deaf child to potential danger, such as fire or smoke alarms and cars."
- jeffdjohnson, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26Imagine the horrific situation if the kid is using a restroom (alone) and the fire alarm goes off.
The easy solution seems to be to instruct the other kids not to bother the dog, or else get disciplined. Or the alternative is to make all fire alarms have a visible alert, which seems more costly if the school is old. - nene7070, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Starcrusher beat me to it, of course, but i want to reiterate: Just because someone is blind doesnt mean they do not need a service animal. There are animals for people who have a seizure disorder which help to alert others to the seizure, protect the person having the seizure from harm, and comforting the person after their seizure is over (yes, it may seem silly, but having a seizure can be scary!).
Also, people with physical disabilities have a lot of need for service animals: holding open doors, picking stuff up (my sister knows a dog that can pick a penny off a counter without getting it slobbery), helping them get dressed in the morning, among other things.
Note: I am in a wheelchair, but I dont have a seizure disorder.... i have had one seizure after a shunt malfunction, thats how i know its a scary damn thing!
Another note: all public buildings are required to follow the ADA. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+25You know, yeah it helps him to be alerted, I gave that a lot of thought - but if the problem is strictly being around people, why can't the other people just help him out and alert him that something's on fire???
- IMustBeEmo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15RTFA *****
- charmedguy18, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12There's a girl at my public school that has a severe defect of the back and brings her guide dog to school. She even has all her senses, AND she could use a walker... A dog is just a lot better for her. And the school district has allowed it with open arms since the beginning, as they should. The girl was in elementary school when she started using the dog, too. This is ridiculous that this school district wouldn't let someone who needs to dog not have it, when, yes it's not NECESSARY to have it, but it's a good idea, and in the best interest of the person in question.
- zip22, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12not really. the article says that the deaf person needs a dog. the poster is saying he knows a number of deaf people who dont need dogs and asking why this kid does.
if you were claiming your peanut allergy required you carry a peanut sniffing hamster, then we could ask why other people with peanut allergies don't use or need peanut sniffing hamsters. - Rivetgeek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@Soave
First off, it's not a pet, read the ***** article.
Second off, these are highly trained dogs, you'd have more of a chance getting bit by a kid in class. - rijet0711, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14WTF is wrong with schools in the US?
- charmedguy18, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Good job at missing the point.
- ubuwalker31, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@StarCrusher
According to ScotusBlog, the State may or may not be entitled to sovereign immunity from suits under the ADA.
http://www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/archives/2006/01/court_adds_some.html - So the school might be gambling that they don't have to follow the ADA and allow the kid and his service dog into school. IMHO, they are gonna loose. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Deaf Kid to school:
Thank you for the $30 million settlement. - zephc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10 scroll up to #c4586140 (StarCrusher's comment) you silly goose
- IMustBeEmo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16I think that the needs of a deaf person are much more important than allergies.
- silvercatmon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8What with the dislike of people with allergies? d3c0yn4m3l355 and other getting digged down, just because they bring up the problem of people with allergies?
There is a valid argument about allergies and Service Animals, that doesn't mean the kids shouldn't be allowed to bring the dog into school, but it IS something that should be discusses.
I think the kid should be allowed to bring the dog into school.
I'm thankfully cats are not Service Animals since I'm allergic to them (I wasn't when I was a kid), but I still think cats are great. If there was a cat Service Animal and I had to come into contact with it regularly then I would have to speak up for my right to breath normally and a compromise would hopefully happen. - Rockout, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I don't think that the family is arguing that the student needs the dog for the classroom or for school related activities. They are trying to train the dog to assist their son, and part of that training is to bond with the person it's trained to assist. The student is preparing for life after school...
If I had a deaf son and a dog would be able to help improve his life in ANY way at all, I'd fight for him to be able to have that dog. Why should he have to rely on the other students to alert him to danger if he can be self-sufficient? (Ok, self-dog-sufficient)
There was a student with a dog when I went to jr. high, and after the first few days, it became routine... it wasn't a disruption to us at all. - Hegemony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"School to deaf kid: You can't bring your guide dog to school. (with pic)"
Good thing there was a pic, I had no clue what a dog looked like.
/sarcasm - PsychePsyche, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Sarangati > why should the kid allergic to the dog have to transfer to a class they probably don't know anyone in,? Not to mention the cirriculum would definitely be different in another class. So because this kid is deaf, the allergic kids (there's bound to be more than one kid allergic if its a normal class room of 30 students) get ***** over. If this happened to me, i would torment the ***** out of that dog so there's no way the kid train him as an aid dog, and then beat up the kid.
What is wrong with you? Tormenting a dog? Beating up a disabled child?
Just because the school might have to reorganize some classes because some of the children might be allergic is a lot less ugly than discriminating against a deaf child. - nene7070, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12The school is required to allow a properly licensed service animal, under federal law. If someone is allergic to the dog, they can be transferred to another classroom, and then stay the hell away from the dog... Problem solved.
- itsmrdumass, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9For the lazy...
W. Tresper Clarke High School
740 Edgewood Drive
Westbury, NY 11590
Principal Timothy Voels (516) 876-7450
http://eastmeadow.k12.ny.us/images/timothy_voels.jpg - borg359, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10The stupidity of the people running our education system never ceases to amaze me.
- ajchavar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7just to clear up a fact for anyone saying he has limited hearing and is not deaf:
he has cochlear implants, which give him limited hearing. in order to get CI's you generally need to be completely deaf from birth, and they are implanted pretty young, with "updates" as the child grows.
the type of hearing you get from cochlear implants (from what i know) is artificial and quite different from what people with normal hearing hear.
long story short, he is deaf, and only hears through use of his implants. - dboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This was posted by someone in their talkback section, and has very valid points:
"Let's get some stuff cleared up. First of all, one of the main problems here is that Mrs Cave did NOT follow procedure and is now causing chaos in our neighborhood. IF Mrs Cave followed procedure and started this one on one with the super of our schools, we would NOT be where we are now. Instead, she went to a board of Ed meeting and started problems. I find that the EMSD would also have to alert the other parents to a dog being in our school due to other children having allergies. ALL children in that school have rights. What if some of John's teachers are allergic to dogs? Classes may need to be changed. This is NOT just a HS we are discussing here. Our MS and HS are connected, therefore, parents in the MS would need to be contacted also. Most know how much dogs shed and their dander goes a flying. Our school also has a large BOCES program in it for the Blind and hearing impaired, none of them have any dogs. We also have a program for Autistic children. Many of those children are very frightened of dogs. There is a lot to be considered here. How does anyone know by just reading the article that the Super isn't trying to put all of this together, as I have said, ALL the children in this school have rights. This is why procedure needs to be followed. We also have a Senior in the HS that has the implants, he is a heck of an athlete! He doesn't have a dog. How fair is it to all the other parents that since Mrs Cave couldn't follow procedure that we dropped our children off at school with cop cars in front of the building. Mrs Cave is NOT benefitting John at all with the way she is handling things. She set him up for disappointment. She got him in the middle of this battle. a battle that might not have to been fought if procedure was followed. This morning on News12 she said this doesn't have anything to do with John bonding with the dog. She also said that the school wouldn't let the kids in the school. She brought her 2 kids and their friends to school early, complained that the kids were out in the cold, she didn't mention that she was over 1/2 an hour early! The principal can't be blamed for any of this, he is following procedure and the rules of the district. Why did Mrs. Cave have John take his implants out to go into the school this morning? He understood everything that the newscaster was asking, but took them to out to go into school. So look at it this way, the district may NOT be breaking the law in terms of the disability act, but there are many factors regarding bringing the dog into the school. We have HUNDREDS of children in those 2 schools, all of which have rights and their own disabilities. " - titlesaysitall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Uh, pretty much everything.
- milkmage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@swiftekho
yes, traditionally, assistance dogs are for the blind, but there is such a thing as hearing ear dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_dog - spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The whole thing that some of those that don't want the dog in the school that I have read here missed is that the dog needs to bond with the child 24 hours a day. The ADA provides for this and is necessary if it is in there.
- twitchr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5i know quite a few people in the deaf community, and the one thing they all have in common is their pride. They truly feel they can do anything a hearing person can do, but hear. most of them turn their noses to implants and the such. they just want to be looked at the same as anyone else. i asked one of my deaf friends about this article and if he ever felt the need to have a guide dog, and he laughed.
this kid just wants an excuse to bring his dog to school. - PhillyMJS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5A taxpayer-funded public school is public property, subject to the full force of the ADA. Period.
You'd think this kid was just faking beinf deaf to try to bring his pet dog into school or something, the way these asshat school officials are acting. Though I'm sure they'll come around and make nice once the multimillion-dollar discrimination lawsuit is filed. - oakapple, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This reminds me of the story a couple years ago who had a "no tolerance" policy on weapons. So, some kid helped his grandmother move over the weekend, using his pick up truck. He drove the pick up to school on Monday, and apparently a couple things fell out of grandma's boxes, including some silverware - one of which was a knife. The principal was wandering through the student lots looking for wayward weapons (I guess), saw the knife in the bed of the kid's pickup, and suspended him. Thus, proving once and for all that "educators" are completely incapable of free thought. This story is just another in the piece of proof in the greater theorem. Kid's deaf, uses an assistance dog, the law requires schools to accommodate assistance dogs, as Dick Cheney would say - it's a no-brainer....unless, of course, you're a school administrator.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ mikesty
Many people in this world are dicks. Unless I had a friend that I could trust my life with and who I knew would be accountable for me constantly, I would want a dog too. - osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@maxman137 - You didn't read the article, that's what we are here to discuss, not what you think about the title. The dog must be with him during the day to form a bond with him, as a part of training.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5bahhh the principal will change his mind real quick once they send the subpoena to him.
- sHARD>>, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I dunno about whether this kid needs it or not, but I used to work near a large deaf campus (over 1000 students), and was near it daily. None of them had an assistive dog...just seems kinda weird that he does.
- FrankieB078, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You are also ignorant. These dogs are trained to sit quietly where their owners tell them. I know first hand how hard it is to train a dog to do this. I worked with East Coast Assistance Dogs in high school for 2 years training these dogs for disabled persons. It's only distracting to students when they allow themselves to be distracted. Otherwise the dog is usually sleeping until told to move.
- GoGoUnicorn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Since this is a handicap he will have to deal with for life, I feel the school should have their students' best interest in mind. They certainly don't have the authority to dictate how this student should handle his impairment.
The dog, like other guide animals, is meant to be with the kid 24-7 to assist him; the school should respect that. It's not an unreasonable request. - Holosoth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5While they might be a little unreasonable, it is kind of too much to have a dog go with you just to hear. Humans (Yes, Teachers are human) have a much easier time communicating with each other than a dog to a human.
Look, Its not like if a fire broke out he wouldn't know about it. Lights flashing; people running (Not counting the fact he probably can hear them). There are a lot of signs. Even if he couldn't hear them, the students are the teacher's responsibility. The teacher would probably help out the kid to make sure they got out safely.
Buses? Unless you actually ride them, you may not have ever been close to a moving one, let alone almost be killed by one. Bus drivers must be certified (Yes, there are a few with issues). I doubt they would "accidentally" run over any kid period. They check and do their job right.
So it's Major Distraction and Allergy risk vs. Unecessary Extra Protection of a partly deaf person. Gee, I wonder which one anyone would pick. - d4nie1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4No way. Maybe the first day or two the kids would be interested in the dog, but after that he would just become a normal part of the school. These dogs are highly trained and are not going to be running around barking and howling.
- shampoovta, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4 I have known adults and kids with cohlear implants and they in themselves are a whole new debate.
- topgun553, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This doesn't seem like it is possible to me.
My sister has down syndrome and has an assistance dog from Canine Companions for Independence, and as far as I know this does not seem legal to me. The way we were told, the only place a certified dog, (from a nationally recognized assistance program) can be rejected from entering is from Hospitals and Doctor offices. You are told to use good judgment in situations, but legally a school should have no right what so ever to not allow a trained assistance dog into the building.
It is a common perception that assistance dogs are only for people who are blind, however this is not true at all. Anyone who is handicapped and accepted at an approved assistance dog program may receive a dog. For my sister we didn't need the dog to turn on and off the light switches or anything like that, its primary purpose was to act as a catalyst for social interaction (which it did greatly).
I really don't understand why a school would do something like this and stick by it. It does nothing beneficial for the school, and makes its school officials seem ignorant and stubborn. - GoGoUnicorn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@maxman
I don't think hearing impaired people only need sign language to get by in the world. Crossing streets, hearing alarms, all this daily stuff we take for granted is more dangerous with the loss of hearing.
The dog is meant to be with the kid 24-7 because the kid will have the handicap 24-7.
What's the complication? -
Show 51 - 100 of 216 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is 