What is Digg?142 Comments
- SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -3/+176Dugg, for great justice
- laplacian, on 10/12/2007, -4/+121i love these types of stories on digg
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+84The best advice you could get when dealing with contractors is this: never pay them up front. They may want a deposit, and that's fine.. but if they insist on more than about 25%, take your business elsewhere.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+80I live drive my daughter to Auburn for daycare everyday and I've seen this guys truck. Good to know this, I'll never call him.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+62"Soiling" rofl.
This landscaper is a real "dirty" sort of character. I think his balls need to be pruned as retribution for his actions. I can't be-leaf someone could get away with this. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+43That dude is lucky the Wayback Machine (from archive.org) didn't get a copy of his SS# and DOB. Otherwise, it would be available for all time. The Wayback Machine is kind of scary that way.
- bram, on 10/12/2007, -1/+42Everyone should know about and use http://www.angieslist.org. It is a contractor rating site. It's a great first stop when choosing a contractor.
- benenglish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+34@alf
What did your wedding photographer do? I'm a former wedding photographer and I'm always intensely interested in problems with photographers. It's amazing how wires can get crossed, sometimes.
Just for the record, engaging a photographer requires a good deal of trust. Never be rushed (I can't imagine how people go about hiring a photographer during those zoo-like "bridal conventions") and never get involved with someone who gives off a bad vibe. That goes for photographers, too. I had one nice couple who came in to sign the pre-wedding paperwork and brides dad (who's paying for the work) asks me "Have you ever screwed up a wedding? I mean, totally screwed up as in the pictures didn't come out." I made the mistake of answering honestly with "Not really. One time I failed to deliver any pictures because the lab I use burned to the ground while they had the film for processing, but that's about it."
His reply? "I'd sue your ass in a heartbeat."
Remember, at this point no contracts had been signed. Even though I was just a few minutes from getting a fat advance check, I closed the folder with the paperwork and told the bride, groom, dad, and a couple of other people they had brought with them that I didn't feel we could do business. Dad started to blow a gasket but the bride, embarrassed as all hell, ushered him on out. I feel like I dodged a bullet that day. Some customers are just not worth the hassle.
So how did you and your photographer disagree? - Civil44, on 10/12/2007, -2/+34My fathers a contractor and wants to see this guy burned alive for soiling his profession's name.
- Zervun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+32dugg - gives good contractors a bad name
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30Digg users are ruthless... we will hunt this man down.
:D - TortfeasorG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26angieslist would be better if it were free
- PDelahanty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26I live in Massachusetts and am tempted to drive by the addresses to see if he labelled his truck yet.
- ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22Reminds me of this Simpsons episode
http://tinyurl.com/y8saar
"
contractor:
Now, don't you worry. Your kitchen
will be done in three weeks.
-- Two years later --
" - Ascus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20You can't blame him for paying more upfront since he WAS a friend. I've paid 100% up front to freinds in financial trouble before, never been a broblem.
- mccarron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Agreed, it's people like this guy that makes me not want to deal with contractors at all.
- alf86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14My wedding photographer tried to burn me like this. Personality-wise, he sounds like the same kind of guy, too. Forced me to take him to court which really pissed me off, because I hate lawsuits. My only solace was that this was a legitimate suit and not a grocery store "slip." He didn't even show up to court. In the end, I didn't get back the money he owed me, but I got all of the image files, raw and edited (he does all digital), and a copyright waiver.
Lessons learned:
1. Never pay more than half upfront.
2. Never trust someone with chronic customer problems. Unless they work at a rehab clinic, the customers probably aren't the problem. (Of course, I learned about the customer problems during the problems I was having with him.)
3. Never assume an established business is honest. Always check with the Better Business Bureau and small claims case files first when dealing with large sums of money, if you don't have good word-of-mouth. - Dpack1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I somehow think you'd be routing for the other corner if this were to happen to you. 6grand is a lot of money and if you read the article this 6grand has been out of his hands since the beginning of August. thats 6 months of interest. The court system is taking way too long to clear this up and the guy just wants his money back. Had he got that back in the first place (and the contractor didnt spend it on a new truck) then he never would of been named and shamed on the net.
- HORTENSE, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14what a rip-off! information like this is vital for every home owner. it helps keep the bad guys away who must be stopped!
- cerejota, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Thats the first thing in this post. All your base are belong to someone else...
- bobdole369, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15I left a message at the first number.
Maybe we all should suddenly need some landscaping. I let him know that I wanted him to actually DO the work, not just do some of it and run off with the loot.
I don't think he'll take the job though, I'm over a thousand miles away. - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15what a dumbass!!!
NEVER give ALL the money up front to independent contractors, pat them by the hour like any other employee, then when satisfied with their work you can pay the balance at the end of the job... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9In most states, 6k is above the small claims threashold.
I sat on a jury involving a similar contractor who was suing his attorney for failing to save himself from ruining his own reputation. We only deliberated for about 30 minutes and most of that time was talking about what a scumbag the guy was. - bergur1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9agreed. My parents got screwed because our contractor took all the money instead of paying the workers and then we had to pay the workers their share. We hired a lawyer, got a police officer to stand there in case he tries to run, and set a "friendly" meeting with the contractor. Of course he knew nothing but was surprised. In the end he paid up but we gave him some time.
It was priceless when the officer asked whose car was out front and he cried that it was on lease. - Sp0rAdiC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9The counter went up by about 700 in the time that i read about half that page. Not bad, keep up the good work digg!
- Zoshchenko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9When you need work done on your home or yard, the #1 rule is:
DON'T HIRE A "FRIEND"!
The friendship is guaranteed to end and the work will suffer. Just don't do it, no matter how much you want to "help someone out." - ahawks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Everyone is so quick to judge. I agree, the contractor sounds like a loser, and I'd be pissed, but the writer/home owner has failed to back things up, IMHO.
The first rule with a CONTRACTor is to make a *contract*. On paper, spelling everything out. He wants money for supplies, ok, either go with him and pay at the store, or demand receipts (as part of the contract). Have it spelled out what will make the difference between "$8000-$9000". When money will change hands, when the job will be complete. Have designs included with both parties giving approval.
My second point is statements like "The plants that you see in these pictures don't total to $1000.00!" WIthout a receipt, I really have no idea what they're valued at. Maybe there were more plants in the order than what are pictured there.
I get that things have escalated, and the guy did practically zero work for $6000, but not having things spelled out on paper is an invitation for just such a headache.
(Background: my previous employer was a small software company that moved buildings in 2004/2005 and had the new building remodeled from a set of brick walls with wood frame and pidgeons in the upper floor to a very nice space. I watched my boss go through many of the same issues over and over. I think most contractors, if they make verbal agreements, are using that as a strategy to push you around. DO IT ON PAPER) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Heres a similar site about a couple that got screwed by a wedding planning service...
http://digg.com/offbeat_news/How_Orlando_Weddings_company_screwed_these_people - EnergyPolice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yes, being in the contracting business is difficult enough without guys like the one mentioned screwing it up for the rest of us.
What about homeowners (sometimnes in VERY nice neighborhoods) who just decide not to pay?
Your options? Lawsuits are a WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.
It isn't referreed to as the "Justice System" it's properly called the LEGAL System- used to dispense the monies of both the Plaintiff and defendant to lawyers.
Want "Justice"? Good luck. You'll pretty much have to get that for yourself.
NO ONE, for any amount of money, can or will actually fight your battles for you.
Regarding my own 'legal' issue, (Breach of contract by the customer, fraud, and get this- the jerk threatened to kill me for attempting to enforce our agreement!) a personal acquaintence and Municipal Court Judge said to me "You'd be better served to throw a rock through this guy's front window. You'll feel better immediately!" - dime, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You cease being my friend once you steal 6 grand from me, tbh.
- nicociri, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Digg needs a new area: "Digg Courthouse" for this kind of stuff.
Anyway, dugg, if not for great justice (i tend to believe that "diggers justice" is alarmingly similar to "mob justice"), then just to keep the story hot, so the real justice gets moving... - localzuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"You may generally not use a companies copyrights or trademarks on your site. You don't own them. Even if they are in public view and your using a picture of it."
That completely depends on the law in your country/state.
For example, in the UK it is perfectly legal to use an organisations imagery for the purpose of criticism. It is a case of knowing the law in your jurisdiction. - datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Wow I live in this area and now exactly where that Ford dealership is. Needless to say any contracting work will not go to this guy or anyone even associated with him. Good post. Dugg.
- fixyourthinking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I had a similar experience with an eBay dropoff store, except they sued me when I posted the story ... although it wasn't nearly as identifying and damning as this story was. I also run a blog that regularly tackles consumer issues ... this guy just started a website specifically attack one individual. My case is still pending a federal appeal from the Plaintiff. They lost an injunction ruling against my BLOG in April of 2006.
http://fixyourthinking.com/2005/12/special-report-you-gotta-b_113606486308815485.html
http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2006/11/blog_lawsuit_ov.htm
My injunction ruling win (for me):
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:8rEJ413tNewJ:www.brownraysman.com/tlu/BidZirkVSmith.pdf+bidzirk&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9 - DonCarcharo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You always see these horror stories about customers getting screwed over by small businesses and contractors. It does a lot to make you afraid of dealing with these types of businesses as a whole. However you very rarely see the other side of things. By that I mean customers who screw over small businesses. Yeah those types of stories aren't as identifiable and interesting but it's more common than you think. I've been self employed as a designer for over six years and I've come across a wide selection of people who did nothing but try and take advantage of me. I've had people charge back invoices after the project was completed. One customer I had sued everyone he worked with negotiating free design work as a way to offset future legal troubles. Another guy I worked for was writing bad checks to multiple designers and ended up getting an entire advertising campaign, billboards and all for free (of course he's now wanted by the FBI). And finally one woman I worked with ultimately rejected the design piece I developed for her and demanded her money back. I refunded her and then she charged back her initial payment. She got me for $1K and I later learned that she doesn't even really have a business.
The thing is people generally try and screw each other over. It doesn't matter whether you're the business or the customer, someone somewhere is going to try and take advantage of the situation. Some people are just rotten. The only thing is these days if you get caught, you're more than likely going to end up on the Internet with your pants down. - bdmbdm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@BearOwned:
He clearly mentioned why he gave him $6000 up front. And that was because he thought he was a good guy and he was having financial difficulties. - LordOfTheSponge, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Yup - never pay them upfornt. Set up progress payments. Give them a small portion at the beginning so they can buy materials or what not. But never the entire sum.
- bobdole369, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I am not a lawyer, nor is what follows legal advice.
If you are going to do something similar - It is of extreme importance to note jackwhispers case, as it describes a legal defense against "defamation" and "trademark infringement".
If you strike back in this manner, you can expect legal trouble. Their lawyers will stop at nothing to try and get your site shut down as well as you in court on some ridiculous trumped up nonsense.
Most often it will have to do with how you copied their logos or print their copyrighted name on your website. This is the easiest way for them to get you to shut down.
You may generally not use a companies copyrights or trademarks on your site. You don't own them. Even if they are in public view and your using a picture of it. Another important step is to ensure that your site is done "in the context of news reporting or news commentary". This seems to be jackwhispers saving grace. Fair use won't apply here. Neither will common sense. Read the quoted part below and note how jackwhispers site was intended as a "news" site, with pros and cons and articles about other things.
If you throw up a "big-company sucks" site, with nothing but negatives you will have a much harder time of fighting off the defamation part.
"Upon review of the content of the article, the court finds that Smith’s use of the BidZirk mark in the article was in the context of news reporting or news commentary. The article posted by Smith concerning the Plaintiffs is written for the purpose of conveying information. In the four installments of the article, Smith describes his experience with BidZirk in great detail. (Objections Ex. 1 (Smith Article).) In addition, Smith addresses the positive and negative aspects, in his opinion, of dealing with a an eBay listing company, such as BidZirk. (Id.) Further, Smith provides a checklist for using an eBay listing company and tips for selling items on eBay. (Id.) The fact that Smith reports negatively about his experience with BidZirk does not dictate that the article’s function was not news reporting or news commentary. As such, the court denies the Plaintiffs’ motion for a preliminary injunction. Therefore, after a thorough review of the Magistrate Judge’s Report and the record in this case, the court adopts Magistrate Judge Catoe’s Report and Recommendation" - fatlip, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5you're forgetting the 11th commandment..
thou shalt not be a douche - bobdole369, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5touche' and Dugg, thanks for pointing out my obvious USA-centric attitude. /humbled localzuk :)
- Mervz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7haha, so funny. I do business with the guy who got ripped off.
I hope Tom gets the money he deserves from this scumbag! - mjparker75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Truth is, many small businesses and contractors feel like they have to try and squeeze their customers, just to stay in business. I had a plumbing company come when an outside water pipe broke. They gave me an estimate of $400. After about 4 hours of work, they tried to bump it to $1000. I took one look at the amended statement and saw that they were charging $500 for three feet of copper pipe. Now, I got them to drop everything past the initial bid- but if my wife had been the one home that day instead of me, it would have been an easy $600 for that guy. My wife isn't dumb, but she doesn't often shop for copper pipe. I wonder how many jobs a week/month/year they work where they get away with that *****.
- GreenLantern33, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I just tried to call him - no answer. LOL
- ThePerp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Agreed. Might be worth the dough for a month, if you're in the market to have something done.
- alf86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@benenglish
As far as the photography, he did a great job for the most part. He showed up an hour late, which was annoying, but delays had been accounted for so no harm done. The pictures were great and, being digital, he took a lot. The problems started when we ordered the prints. He gave us a date for when the order would be in ("at the very latest"), but when the date came that he said he would have them, he was nowhere to be found. When I finally got hold of him, he admitted that he hadn't even sent the files out to the lab yet, but he was going to be sending the files out the next day. Annoying, but okay, I kept my cool and waited for the next deadline to come up. This happened several more times over the next few months and my wife and I decided to stop calling on the deadline and show up at his office. This was especially annoying considering we live in Houston, while the wedding was in Port Arthur, TX, 100 miles away. His office is in Nederland,a smaller town sharing a border with Port Arthur. Anyway, we got the same song and dance, files not sent, will send tomorrow. This happened two more times, and finally he delivered a partial order. Single prints of some of the pictures we ordered, no multiples and no 16x20 canvas print of my wife and I with her family (the most expensive single part of the order). We spent about an hour with his wife going over what was missing and needed to be reordered. All of the prints missing were part of the package we paid for. Stupidly, we paid in full, in advance, per his policies.
A couple of visits and same old song and dance later, we get most of the missing prints, but still no canvas print. We continued having to fight for it. Several months later (just over a year after the original delivery date we were given) he ships us a 16x20, standard print. After trying for a couple of days to get hold of him, I finally managed to get him only to have him tell me that was all I was getting. He said he would not provide the canvas or the missing prints. I asked him specifically if he was refusing to deliver what we had paid for. He actually said "I think I've given you enough."
That's when I filed the suit. And when he didn't show up to court and a default judgment was awarded, he appealed. The judge of the county court sent us straight to mediation, where we struck the agreement I mentioned above. When the delivery date came, my wife and I went to his office to pick up the settlement. He showed up half and hour after the agreed upon time. He seemed genuinely surprised to see us. He then told us he looked but couldn't find our files and that he probably threw all of the disks away when he got the letter from the court. During all of my dealings with this man, I had remained cool and collected, but assertive. This was the only time I lost my cool and stormed out yelling at him. I admit, I partly put on a show for the customers he'd kept waiting by showing up late. Childish, I know, but it sure felt good to let it out. The next day I called the mediation office to set up one more session. When that date came, he showed up at the office three hours early with the original settlement in hand.
I think my biggest mistake was giving him far too many second chances, but I also wish I had filed for arbitration before filing suit.
Incidentally, my wife's cousin got married towards the end of this whole ordeal and hired the same guy, not realizing what we were going through. Due to bad blood in the family, she refused to heed our warnings about him and got burned just as we did. We soon learned of others in the same boat. - spreggels, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The answer to your not-really-rhetorical question is: the lazy/troubled contractor who screwed up a job. What does "troubled" even mean, anyway? It seems that the only troubles the guy has are being dishonest and untrustworthy. I also like how you described his consistently shady behavior, stretching over months, as merely a mistake: "Oops! I managed to cash your check within 45 minutes but couldn't get the work done in two months!" The contractor ceased to be a friend once he started screwing over the friend who had hired him to the tune of $5500. Period.
- TheBarge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Dpack1
"since the beginning of August. thats 6 months of interest."
6 months? Read closer... he gave him the $6,000 on June 16th, 2005. That's what, about 18 months of interest? Anyways, good luck to the guy. I got screwed out of about $9,000 from a company I did some contract IT work for. They never paid me, lied, changed company names and moved to another city (they owed a ton of people a ton of money). - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Isn't this just one person's side of the story, or should we be judge and jury, storm the castle with torches and pitchforks???!??!?!!?!?!?!? "
Uh, we haven't jailed, convicted, or taken $6k of this guy's money. It's just getting publicity, chill out man! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@LordOfTheSponge
Agreed, you should only pay for materials up front and those payments should be made directly to the retailer or have the retailer bill you directly. Never pay the contractor for materials. There have been tons of cases where the contractor never paid for the supplies and the supplier went after the homeowner for payment. Paying 2/3 of a job's cost up front directly to the contractor is idiotic at best. The rest of the payments need to be outlined in the contract with a firm timeline. I feel bad for the guy, but use some common sense. - vhold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No, only when the person ripped off goes out of their way to register a domain name and uses a lot of pictures.
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