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86 Comments
- inactive, on 11/10/2007, -3/+115In communist Poland (no this isn't one of those jokes) alcohol was heavily taxed, however cologne was not. Since cologne has about 70-90% ethanol, and was cheaper for the same amount, alcoholics would often drink cologne rather than go to the liquor store.
It also makes your breath smell better than straight booze. - sicc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+96A. They are in prison, maybe you're giving them a bit too much credit.
B. Apparently you didn't read the article, it's already happening. - acreman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+78I'm sorry that is not a hair question.
- vsujohn2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31With what goes on in some prisons, maybe they should be drinking sanitizer :-/
- 5N00PY, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27In many places, drug stores stop selling ANY product containing alcohol after a certain time at night, because alcoholics can and will come in a drink it - regardless of the potential health risks.
- nocturne, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17"I don't think a lot of people realize these are ethanol containing, or alcohol containing. They are really no different than a really concentrated liquor," Doyon said.
Except for the fact that it's denatured? All hand sanitizers contain either a toxic variant of alcohol, or additives to make it taste absolutely horrible. Government requires this in order for primarily alcoholic products to be sold without having to pay the alcoholic beverage tax.
As for distilling it, you'd have trouble separating the two type of alcohol from each other. Even so, you have other things to worry about if inmates have stills... - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16The hangover's a bitch, but at least the vomit would be self-cleaning.
- JasonPrini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16I heard in communist Poland alcohol was ridiculously cheap. Very, very cheap. That's from my father-in-law, who left Poland to come to Canada in the late 80s.
People had to wait in line for hours and even days to get SUGAR, and you think cologne was plentiful?
I call BS. - danakin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Hilarity ensues!
- neritai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Methanol and ethanol are just two, very simple types of alcohol. All the chemicals with "-ol" at the end are alcohols. The "ol" tells you that there's an active hydroxyl group, which is an oxygen and a hydrogen. The hydroxyl group is quite reactive.
For the simple alcohols, the prefix just tells you how many carbons there are. Methyl is 1, ethyl is 2, propyl 3, butyl 4, pentyl 5, hexyl 6, heptyl 7 (this is the one used in perfumes), octyl 8, nonyl 9, decyl 10, etc. etc. Other prefixes and whatnot will tell you how those carbons are arranged. The "iso" in "isopropanol" (rubbing alcohol) means that the carbons are in a cross pattern - two of them link to the third, and that third links to the -OH group (which is the active group of alcohols).
Methanol is known as wood alcohol, and will blind you, then kill you if you drink it. Amusing fact: one effective treatment for methanol poisoning, if caught soon enough, is ethanol (drinking, or grain alcohol). Ethanol will saturate your receptors much faster than methanol, and the body will then filter out the rest of the methanol instead of absorbing it (go go liver!). Of course, you end up with ethanol poisoning, and liver damage, but that's more treatable than blindness and death, hee hee.
Ethanol is the *only* one that is potable, and the government requires that it be denatured to avoid the liquor tax. Denaturing it just means that it stops being drinkable - i.e., toxic. This is usually accomplished by adding trace amounts of toxic substances. - pgoowy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11From the article:
"While the hand sanitizer contains other chemicals in smaller amounts, it is primarily the same type of alcohol found in liquor, and acts on the body in the same way...."
I guess you could always distill it to get rid of the impurities. - anagoge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Like L'Oreal?
- sfacets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I would have said they would make bombs a-la Molotov cocktail...
...Or Napalm. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@NaziHatinChimp
"There are two types of alcohol, methanol and ethanol. "
Great name but....you are totally uninformed. CH3-OH = methyl alcohol
C2H5-OH = ethyl alcohol ( the kind you can drink)
C3H7-OH = propyl alcohol, aka propanol
C4H9-OH = butyl alcohol
C5H11-oh = pentyl alcohol, pentanol
C6......Hexyl (hexanol, and very close to gasoliine)
C7.....Heptyl alcohol
etc....and then there are more complex alcohols, like glycerine,
and there are isomers of the vasic alcohols above, like isopropanol, propanolol,
n-butyl asshatanol.
and, don't forget the super complex ones like 1,2,3 tri-butyl 4 benzoyl N,N dickweedanol.
(OK I made the last two up....but you get the idea. )
Any organic (carbon-containing) molecule with a tail of -OH (oxygen/hydrogen) attached to one of the Carbon atoms can be called an alcohol...and its name will end in 'ol', and include the rest of the details of the molecule in the name.
Organic chemistry has the original, totally user-friendly language.
- griz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7See mom!! Washing your mouth out with soap doesn't work.
- transeunte, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I agree with Hitler here
- awol21, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8ethanol = good, methanol = bad
- oilcan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6there are many many types of alcohols. anything you've ever heard that ends in -ol is a type of alcohol. propanol, butanol, etc.
- iomegaboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6My wife worked at a prison for years. They were not even allowed to bring in lotion or bottled water (as employees). It amazes me at the wide variation in security that exists in our prisons.
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Okay, ethanol = good. It's the stuff you find in liqour.
Methanol = bad. It's the stuff you find in rubbing alcohol.
And no, rubbing alcohol is not 10% bad, it's 100% bad. Rubbing alcohol is almost always methanol only. It's diluted with water in various concentrations, but it's still all bad for you to drink.
On another note, methanol is not bad for you by itself, it's when the body processes it that it becomes deadly. However, the body prefers to process ethanol instead. So if you drink a mix of methanol and ethanol, you might be okay. The standard treatment for methanol ingestion is ethanol. The methanol will get ignored and pass through the body without damage.
So a 90% ethanol 10% methanol solution probably wouldn't do anything severely bad to you at all. Other than destroy your liver, which happens anyway. ;) - drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6At least nobody will be dropping the soap. Think about the a-holes that are silently thanking this move despite people drinking the stuff.
- oilcan, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9interestingly enough, 70% alcohol is better at destroying cells than higher concentrations. That's why in biochem labs you make your sterilizing spray bottles at 70%, rather than keeping it at its azeotropic concentration of 95%.
in other news, I have to go pee now from drinking up our lab's alcohol supplies. - andygeorge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@dorianh49
"Can someone please tell me what I missed now that everyone is saying, "I'm sorry, that is not a hair question"?"
its in reference to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx2ytr2Oyv4&eurl= - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4sounds like my average weekend: a gallon of hand sanitizer makes for a fun evening, but i usually chase it with a bottle of listerine to get rid of the "soapy" taste...
- kcap122, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6yes that's true. in case u didnt know, if u buy ethyl alcohol sanitizer from the drugstore (rubbing alcohol, but not isopropyl), it has ingredients added specifically so that you can't boil off the alcohol and drink it.
For instance, they put in benzene (very nasty for you) because it has a boiling point that's very close to alcohol. In theory it is possible to separate the ethanol from the other stuff in there, but it would be much cheaper to just buy the potable stuff.
Interestingly, behind the counter at the pharmacy, they have a lot of USP ethyl alcohol available to make different medications (topical formulas, cough syrups, etc). I'd love to get my hands on that stuff. It's probably the cleanest alcohol you could ever find. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4And you know that because.....
- arkmtech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I don't even want to imagine the hangover... O.o
- aegis9975, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Most solvents and soap products commonly are based off, or contain, methyl alcohols and are highly toxic and are unfit for human consumption. Drinking methyl alcohols will cause severe gastric problems, blindness, and death. Whatever they are in prison for, drinking hand soap will be more punishing to them then anything the legal system can throw at them.
- SLP1111, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Drinking soap and alcohol? Thatd make for one hell of a hang over.
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3FTFA:
"Alcohol-based sanitizers are credited with being more effective against germs and less irritating, but health-care providers and hospitals and correctional facility administrators should be aware of the potential misuse, the authors said in the article."
I still don't see why prison inmates need a special hand sanitizer, rather than ordinary soap. it is not like they are going to be performing surgery.
Most people just use a bar of soap to wash their hands.. If they don't want them carving things out of soap..(like chess pieces, etc), they can provide ordinary liquid soap, like the kind in the little dispensers in public restrooms. it is not sanitizer, not alcohol based.
Sounds like there is some hidden, ulterior motive in the prison officials' decision to use this particular product! - mdmadph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3good lube, maybe? seriously, lube drops the rate of STD transmission during anal sex by a good margin. it'd probably evaporate quick, but that's what big bottles are for.
- Pezza131214, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It seems like the solution is easy
1. Replace ethanol based soap with IPA based soap
2. Don't tell prisoners, find the blind ones later
3. ????
4. Profit!!! - WetSplatter, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Ever hear of pruno? They'll drink ANYHTING! What could be better than a trip to the infirmary right?
- dorianh49, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Can someone please tell me what I missed now that everyone is saying, "I'm sorry, that is not a hair question"?
- jawbreaker4fs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I thought that was obvious.. being as there's a distinction between "maximum security prision" and other types of prison?
Perhaps you were also surprised that there's a wide variety of soaps available? - macaddct1984, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Alright, from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubbing_alcohol :
Composition:
In the United States, rubbing alcohol, U.S.P. and all preparations coming under the classification of Rubbing Alcohols must be manufactured in accordance with the requirements of the US Treasury Department, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, using Formula 23-H (8 parts by volume of acetone, 1.5 parts by volume of methyl isobutyl ketone, and 100 parts by volume of ethyl alcohol). It contains 68.5-71.5% by volume of absolute ethyl alcohol, the remainder consisting of water and the denaturants, with or without colour additives, and perfume oils. Rubbing Alcohol contains in each 100 mL not less than 355 mg of sucrose octaacetate or not less than 1.40 mg of denatonium benzoate.
Health Effects:
Isopropyl alcohol is oxidized by the liver into acetone. Symptoms of isopropyl alcohol poisoning include flushing, headache, dizziness, CNS depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma.
Rubbing alcohol products that contain methyl alcohol can cause blindness or death when consumed.
Isopropyl Alchohol:
Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol, U.S.P. / B.P. contains 68-99% of isopropyl alcohol, by volume, the remainder consisting of water, with or without colour additives, suitable stabilizers, and perfume oils.
Isopropyl rubbing alcohol is poisonous and can cause permanent disabling illness or death if consumed. - Otto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Denatured" alcohol, on the other hand, is different. It's ethanol mixed with something else to make it non-drinkable. Traditionally, yes, it was 90/10 eth/methanol, however they use various other agents nowadays. That may be where the confusion comes from.. Rubbing alcohol != denatured alcohol. Not always.
- eirias, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@neritai - Ethanol treatment doesn't work quite like that. Ethanol is oxidized into acetaldehyde by the enzyme "alcohol dehydrogenase." Acetaldehyde is an aldehyde, and so it is more toxic than ethanol, but it is also fairly quickly converted into harmless acetic acid by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. Conversely, methanol is oxidized by the two enzymes in formaldehyde and then formic acid, both of which are toxic. Methanol, as a chemical, is far less toxic than either of its products.
Because of this, ethanol treatment does not work by saturating receptors so that methanol can be processed faster; instead ethanol is given to deliberately slow down the alcohol dehydrogenation process. A high, sustained dose of ethanol is given to the patient. Because ethanol competes with methanol to act as a substrate molecule for alcohol dehydrogenase, it competitively inhibits the oxidization of methanol, slowing the process. The fascinating component of this treatment is that methanol, which is not being oxidized, is removed from the body by either excretion through urination (via the kidneys and caused by ethanol's diuretic properties) or through the skin and lungs, both of which possess epitheliums that methanol can readily cross. - MrSir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@neritai
the ethanol does not saturate your receptors as you say, they saturate enxymes. The most active is Alcohol Dehydrogenase (in alcoholics CYP2E1 is activated as well.) This forms acetalehydem which is worse for you than the ethanol and i think this is what causes liver toxicity. But if those enzymes were to instead catalyze Methanol, you would get formaldehyde. Thats what causes the blindness and death. This does give the kidney time to filter the Methanol out because Alcohol DH has higher affinity for Ethanol. The reason the bad effects of alcohol last so long is because alcohol DH and Aldehyde DH (this along with other enzymes which im not gonna get into detoxifies the acetalehyde into acetic acid, and formaldahyde into..well i dont know yet) are very slow enzymes. You know about the Asian Flush when drinking? thats because many asians have Defective Aldehyde DH. I knew a guy who drank 4 beers and was red and itchy and sick to his stomache all week.
So, did the story say the alcohol was denatured? i would think it is, because if not it would be taxed, or highly regulated, like lab ethanol is. mmm, you can get away with drinking a little i know, but a gallon seems rediculous, i imagine that would cause some type of toxicity. i would think they would but something in it that won't cause permanant damage if you drink it. just something to make you sick and stop drinking it. it just seems to make sense to me.
i dont mean to throw big words around earlier, i just think this stuff is so interesting. - mdmadph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yet somehow they can't stop the rampant cornholing that goes on all the time.
well, you win some, you lose some, eh? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@foobar5892 I think you meant in Socialist Poland. Anyways. The same thing goes for Denaturated Alchohol, commonly used for agricultural purposes. I saw many a drunk punch a whole in both sides of a loaf of bread, and "filter" the stuff to drink.
- j3one, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2New favorite tough guy prison name... Bubbles.
- laserman92027, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My daughter works as a public defender in CA, they have had periodic outbreaks of the skin eating bacteria and other nasties. She has to wear rubber gloves and a face shield at time to interview these people. They truly may need something stronger than soap. It certainly needs supervision.
- dezmo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2still not a hair question, this must be the slow class
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1On the up side, this might eliminate the dangers associated with 'dropping the soap'...but on the down side, I bet the liquid stuff makes an effective lubricant, and with alcohol thrown in as an added bonus!
It's a local anesthetic and a bunghole sanitizer and a lubricant, all in one. I'm sure that's the REAL reason for it.
............................Huh huh! "BONE-US! " Huh huh huh
- dodgyc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"ATHF" and "bomb" are some hints.
- RatTrap, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Most hand sanitizers have isopropyl alcohol in them and you dont want to dtink that stuff.
- DimitroffVodka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Don't waste your time drinking it, Light it on fire! This stuff is pretty much napalm. I love to rub it on my hands than catch my hands on fire. It doesn't hurt and it scares the ***** out of unsuspecting people.
- robbh66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm not a proponent of convict's rights or anything but This is a great idea.
Prison = giant fishbowl. One gets sick, others will to. I'd rather not pay more taxes to take care of these guys. - dorianh49, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Thank you! Pretty funny stuff. I promise not to post comments with that quote more than once or twice a day.
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