What is Digg?1395 Comments
- Bricks, on 10/10/2007, -18/+338http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Security_Guard_Powertrip
Is a recent/similar story from Tiger direct. Some might say these situations could be avoided with a simple flash of a receipt. But that isn't the root of the issue. The more I think about it, the more I support preserving the rights that these people are defending. - Ouze, on 10/17/2007, -21/+325I can't believe the amount of people who are cheerfully willing to roll over for any rent-a-cop with a velcro badge. Granted this guy is not being discriminated against because of his skin color, but nonetheles, historically speaking, when Rosa Parks refused to move, you were the guys whispering "why doesn't she just shut up and go already?"
Unless it was a Sam's club or similar, where your membership is predicated on some pre-specified policies, those guys have no more right to demand your reciept then I do. - theblooms, on 10/17/2007, -16/+286I do this ***** all the time at Wal-Mart (or as often as I go there. I try like hard to avoid that place.) They ask to see my receipt and I say "No thank you" and keep walking. They always yell "Sir, SIR. SIR!" at me, but that's it. I don't appreciate being treated like a criminal after handing over my money.
- abusive, on 10/10/2007, -12/+182If you don't like a store's policies... really show them you don't.
Don't shop there. - acrodev, on 10/10/2007, -11/+165Remember the last time your receipt was checked at a mom and pop store? I miss those days.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -10/+143You same people who complain that "all he had to do was show a receipt" probably fly into a rage over the fact that Microsoft keeps requiring people to install software to make sure their copy of Windows isn't pirated. It's the same situation - being treated like a criminal without any reason. Why should I be made to feel like a shoplifting suspect for walking into a store?
- dtrinh, on 10/17/2007, -5/+121It's going to hinge on that Obstruction charge. Any judge who reads that HE called the police is going to see the obvious stretch and desperate attempt at a charge. It sucks it had to happen in a family scenario, but I think this guy is going to come off pretty well. Plus, no Miranda rights read? There's precendence enough to get off on that alone.
- Onyxblaze, on 10/10/2007, -6/+109If you don't have anything to hide then you shouldn't have any problems with this tracking bracelet along with random drug tests and home searches for incriminating materials...
- derekbalsam, on 10/10/2007, -15/+116You "try like hard to avoid" Walmart, and yet you still can't help going there? How hard can it be to NOT go to Walmart if you don't want to? Maybe the power of their convenience and low prices is simply overwhelming.
- thebman990, on 10/10/2007, -2/+90He has an update on there with the Ohio law that specifically says he is not required and cannot be arrested for not showing ID.
2921.29 (C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed. - Ouze, on 10/10/2007, -1/+82I didn't claim at any point this guy was Rosa Parks and I specifically referenced there was no racism involved. My point was the mindset of the average digg commenter on this story (and, i daresay, the average americans), where a citizen's rights are being trampled and when he stands up for himself, is regarded as being a unreasonable pain in the ass. You enjoy a lot of rights in this country because of the unreasonable men and women who came before you. Don't defend mindless authoritarianism, you police state craving pussies.
@Krecker - i bet there were benefits to keeping black people on the back of the bus, too. You can come up with any amount of reasoning to justify your mindless urge to OBEY, but that doesn't make it right, and it's not wrong for real men and women who stand up for themselves. - Smills, on 10/10/2007, -2/+67"Oh my god... A hammer for only 99 cents, I can't go on, you go on without me!"
- bonked, on 10/10/2007, -4/+66RIIIIGHT - all privacy should be based on the concept of "if you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't need privacy." Wow, what a brilliant idea.
/sarcasm & disgust - theblooms, on 10/10/2007, -3/+59"Maybe the power of their convenience and low prices is simply overwhelming."
EXACTLY. I shop there about once or twice a month, and generally only when I need something temporary, fast and cheap, like say a $25 DVD player for a gift. Wal-Mart is only 3 miles from my house, and if I need something cheap and last-minute, there is it. Yes, I am corporate whore sell-out, but it is what it is. And, for full disclosure, I worked for Sam's Club (a subsidiary of Wal-Mart) for 7 years, so I know PERSONALLY what a horrid and ***** company that whole organization is.
- digiguy, on 10/10/2007, -21/+75Give him a cookie for standing up to a receipt checker
- bonked, on 10/10/2007, -1/+55Once a purchase has been made, meaning the transaction has occurred, you have received cash for goods, the property purchased is no longer yours. You can't demand to see any of my property - and how am I to know this is going to happen until after the purchase since I won't be asked until afterwards.
- ryanhgqu, on 10/10/2007, -5/+56I don't like dropping a hundred bucks on a product, only to be asked FIVE SECONDS LATER if I stole it. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter much, but I just like being treated like an adult. If someone tells you to do something and a) they don't have legal authority to order you around b) you think their order is stupid ... why the hell would you do it? Oh wait, Milgram explained that to us...
- fnaqzna, on 10/10/2007, -2/+46Exactly. A private citizen does not have the right to search anyone. EVER.
- Nerys, on 10/10/2007, -1/+44actually your not correct well half correct. while the officer has the right to ask you for ID (so do I) neither of us has the right to COMPEL you to show ID. ID does not exist nationally in this country and any other ID is strictly voluntary.
If your driving he can compel to display of a LICENSE to operate a motor vehicle but NOT compel showing of ID (semantic but important)
When your not driving its NOT ID and it still can not be compelled from you in ANY state that I am aware of. - infamousjre, on 10/10/2007, -10/+48i bet no one is embarrassed when they shop with you
- Crispuk, on 10/10/2007, -2/+40Ermm. Yeah it is his rights.
- yutt, on 10/10/2007, -3/+40Umm. Private property or not, this occurred in the United States. They don't have any right to search or detain you. At best they could ask you to leave the premises.
- dbcalo, on 10/10/2007, -3/+39i wasn't aware that cc had receipt checkers. that job doesn't exist at the cc here.
- praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -4/+40Something tells me he still would have been arrested even if he quoted the law to the police officer.
P.S. SkiFree rules! - usersock, on 10/10/2007, -2/+37Quoted from story and needs to be repeated:
"I understand that my day would have gone a lot smoother if I had agreed to let loss prevention inspect my bag. I understand that my day would have gone a lot smoother if I had agreed to hand over my driver’s license when asked by Officer Arroyo. However, I am not interested in living my life smoothly. I am interested in living my life on strong principles and standing up for my rights as a consumer, a U.S. citizen and a human being. Allowing stores to inspect our bags at will might seem like a trivial matter, but it creates an atmosphere of obedience which is a dangerous thing. Allowing police officers to see our papers at will might seem like a trivial matter, but it creates a fear-of-authority atmosphere which can be all too easily abused." - halavais, on 10/10/2007, -0/+34@consoneo: Which means that you have the right to kick me out. But that is the extent of your property right. Unless I have done something illegal, you cannot compel me to act in a certain way, or require that I be searched. You also may not detain me.
- nathanwalker, on 10/10/2007, -1/+35Did some digging.
Ohio Revised Code 2935.041 Detention and arrest of shoplifters - detention of persons in library, museum, or archival institution:
“(E) The officer, agent, or employee of the library, museum, or archival institution, the merchant or employee or agent of a merchant, or the owner, lessee, employee, or agent of the facility acting under division (A) , (B), or (D) of this section shall not search the person detained, search or seize any property belonging to the person detained without the person’s consent, or use undue restraint upon the person detained.”
Kid was in the right. He doesn't have to be searched. If they wanted to accuse him of shoplifting, then do that. But you have the right to refuse to be searched. - RealmDown, on 10/10/2007, -9/+43And their inability to control their inventory is NOT my problem. I refuse, REFUSE, to blindly accept their implication that I am guilty until I prove to them my innocence.
"Papers, please." *snort of derision*. God damn nazis. ***** em. - Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+32"I have nothing to hide" -- the quintessential fallacy of the privacy-ignorant.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 - iDragonFly, on 10/10/2007, -2/+33He gave up comfort and convenience, and spent some time in jail in order to defend 'the peoples' rights.
That makes him a real patriot in my book.
If more people had this guys fortitude, this country might actually have a chance at recovery. - moofer, on 10/10/2007, -4/+33Wrong. He was standing up for his rights. Period. You're an ***** for calling him an *****, and for being a coward by letting anyone that comes along and carries some form of rent-a-cop-badge walk all over you.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -5/+34I don't want my children growing up in a world where they're constantly treated like criminals, where they have to prove their innocence when there's not even evidence that a crime has been committed.
- yutt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+28You had a fine and clear analogy, that it is important to stand up for our legal rights, and support other who do rather than claim they are "being difficult".
Some people just enjoy taking things completely out of context, or are actually too stupid to understand. - p0tent1al, on 10/10/2007, -3/+30***** exactly Bonked. By the way, Neiby, it's a lot easier to digg you down, than for the millionth time, explain to some idiot his unalienable rights. Don't blame digg for your uneducation, you elitist. If you are really libertarian like you claim you are, you need to go read the Constitution. There are certain unalienable rights that we all have, being on private property does not remove that right.
Can Circuit City attack you, JUST BECAUSE you are on private property? They obviously did not attack him, but it is a example, to show you that just because you are on private property, your rights aren't taken away.
Next time, make complete sure you are ***** educated on what you are talking about, before you blame it on digg or the community. - lookoutforchris, on 10/10/2007, -1/+25@consoneo: And thank god the Constitution still works on private property. Interesting thing about the article is that he was trying to leave their property and he was prevented from doing so.
- Nerys, on 10/10/2007, -0/+24actually no they did not as he stated to the cop NO law demands he show ID so the cop "found" some other BS law to charge him with.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+24Precisely - being private property doesn't give them the right to violate the law, numb nuts.
- iFungus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+26http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/01/papers-please-arrest.html
- NikoKun, on 10/10/2007, -5/+28I'm sorry to say this, because I know a lot of blind people here, will disagree with it... But we are getting closer and closer to a police state... It IS true, and to ignore it, is to further allow it to happen.
- lookoutforchris, on 10/10/2007, -0/+23According to the article he was detained by a store employee. That's where his rights were violated. They can ask for a receipt, they can tell you to leave the store and never come back if you're violating their policies, they can call the cops if you refuse to leave their property. What they can't do is illegally search you or detain you. In fact they open themselves up to a suit if they try to arrest/detain you. Police have a great deal of protection against wrongful arrest. Private enterprises do not. I hope this guys sues CC and makes a good example of them. The issue with the cop and the ID is totally separate from the discussion of store receipt checking.
- halavais, on 10/10/2007, -3/+26Rather than flashing the receipt, I flash a slip of paper protesting the store's idiocy. Here's the pdf: http://alex.halavais.net/you-may-not-see-my-receipt/
- ninti, on 10/10/2007, -1/+24How about the right not be subject to illegal searches? For people to come to you and demand your fricking ID? You are an idiot, you need to turn in your libertarian badge and go back to self-identifying yourself as fascist.
- weeeezzll, on 10/10/2007, -6/+28Actually it does. They have no right to ask you for a receipt, if they think you stole something, then they may call the police and report a crime. But they cannot force you to do anything. The police officer asking for id is sort of a gray area. If a crime was reported to the police department, or officer directly then he has the right to ask for your ID whether or not you actually did anything. If however the store only reported to the police that the man refused to show his receipt then the police officer had no right to ask the man for identification.
- maanwi, on 10/10/2007, -3/+25Have you ever heard the saying "Give them an inch, and they'll take a yard"? This guy was unlawfully detained and shouldn't have to suffer the store's receipt-nazi to exit, andI applaud the effort of his avoiding this insult; maybe this illegal policy will be reconsidered after CC gets sued by the guy.
- rarson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+24You fail to understand the point: rights were being violated. It doesn't matter WHY rights are being violated, because neither situation justifies said violation.
- rarson, on 10/10/2007, -5/+26With the declining American economy, and Americans working more hours for less pay than 25 years ago, a LOT of people shop at Walmart because they can't afford to shop anywhere else. Most of the people who protest or boycott Walmart (and tell others to do the same) are reasonably well-off selfish prick ***** that have no clue how many people work 60 hours a week to be able to scrape by on Walmart goods. If you don't like Walmart and don't want to shop there, that's fine, but it really pisses me off when people try to trash Walmart and tell people not to shop there without realizing that a lot of Americans only do so because they have to.
- lookoutforchris, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21This is the same line of ***** they'll tell you at the door ... "we do it to check for errors." What *****. The illiterate rent-a-cop at the door only glances at the receipt for a 10th of a second and they never look in the bag. It's all a psychological deterrent against shoplifting. And you're telling me that he's aware of the shelf price of 1000s of items in the store (and the sale price, and the instant rebate price), can decipher the sometimes cryptic line item description in a receipt that's god-knows how long, and then will take the time to stop and tell me that I was overcharged $0.10 for a DVD. All without inconveniencing me and handling 10s of people coming and going at the door at the same time? 99% of customers know when they've been overcharged any significant amount anyway. The security guy at the door is there for SECURITY, not for customer service.
- InfinitySnatch, on 10/10/2007, -5/+26When they ask to check, they are calling you a thief. If I'm going to be called a thief for something I've paid for, then I might as well just steal it next time.
- p0tent1al, on 10/10/2007, -12/+33They can enforce their policies all they want, as long as they don't infringe on your rights. They could easily just have 2 people watching checkouts, and make sure anyone with a target bag is coming from those checkouts. It's their own fault for their ignorance and cheapness.
Furthermore, yeah he could of flipped his receipt, but people like me and him actually care about our FREEDOMS. When you allow corporations and the police to even slightly infringe upon them, they will see that it's ok and take it that step further. I'm sure you wouldn't find it fine if the people at the doors patted you down if they found you suspicious, but that is the next step away, you need to think long term.
Also, if every time. you choose to disagree with big corporations and government and police, then you are considered a juvenile (can anyone say nazi movement? Your either with us, or against us), then consider me, and a lot of people that live in this country "JUVENILE". My guess is if the police told you to jump off a bridge, you would consider it for a couple of seconds, in fear of being labeled as a JUVENILE.
And that very last comment you made is a really low blow. I'm not going to even respond to that, you've have already done the work for yourself..... - Ouze, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22Sams Club is a membership based company where membership is offered and continued membership predicated upon you agreeing to specific policies, such as the receipt check. Apples and oranges, sir.
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