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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -74/+476It seems like people who are deeply religious are prone to having hallucinations and delusions. This guy was completely insane and is probably better off in jail.
- UltimaNut, on 10/12/2007, -42/+377I say, he likes god so much lets send him there and stop wasting tax dollars.
- PleaseJustDie, on 10/12/2007, -28/+301Nut jobs have been using religion as an excuse for thousands of years. If religion goes away then they will find another excuse to do what they do.
- KazamaSmokers, on 10/12/2007, -30/+209A 50-year-old Eagle Scout???
- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -62/+160@Powercat
Do you have an itch to scratch PowerCat? It seems you dredge up a 3 year old article to state your opinion.
I wouldn't blame the religion for the murder. Remember, if he was following the commands of his religious leader he wouldn't kill. So, to suggest that the religion is the problem, is intellectually dishonest. - ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -28/+125@tekrat
Good write up?? An article named "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history"?
You are a joke. I have yet to heard about a person that killed in the name of atheism or because they were atheists.
Communist leaders may have been atheists but they were mass murdering in the name of (their version of) communism and not atheism. - d4nie1, on 10/12/2007, -9/+83I don't think he was mentally ill. According to the article his friends and family were all antagonistic to an extreme degree towards the atheists, even to the point of saying that the only good atheist was a dead atheist. It seems to me that he was part of a group of people who carried extreme hatred towards atheists.
- toppgun, on 10/12/2007, -20/+90kazama
im a 17 year old eagle scout. once an eagle scout, always an eagle scout... unless they take it away from you. my dad is also an eagle scout, he is turning 60 this march. so is my uncle, he is 58
I am also an atheist. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+69You're supposed to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR! Not kill them!
- PabloMac, on 10/12/2007, -42/+102@ PowerCat "It seems like people who are deeply religious are prone to having hallucinations and delusions."
It seems when people make sweeping generalizations like that, they lose credibility. - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -2/+59"Why did they mention eagle scout?"
"They" didn't, the murderer did. Over and over and over. - praxodas, on 10/12/2007, -8/+63Paranoid schizophrenia is a sad, sad thing. Mentally impaired people should not have guns.
- drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -10/+51The thing that really chaps my ass is he got off with conviction on a lesser charge. Insane my bloated hairy ass. He knew exactly what he was doing, he knew why he was doing it. He made a conscious decision to set aside time commit the murder. He took the time to contemplate his weapons of choice. He knew his actions were against the law, he knew he would be convicted, and he knew he would be punished. These are not the actions of mental illness.
If the roles were reversed, the Atheist would get the death penalty. - revwolfwood, on 10/12/2007, -25/+64Anyone noticing a huge surge in athiest news lately? It's like all of a sudden it's the really cool thing to be. Great. Athiesm is the new hot topic. /applaud
- mutatron, on 10/12/2007, -13/+52I think it's because of the virulent hatefulness of a large number of "Christians" in the US over the past 25 years, combined with similar but more extreme hatefulness and rigid thinking in the Islamic world. Extreme religionists killed 3000 people on 9/11, they helped elect George Bush twice, in the classroom and in public policy they're trying to replace science with faith, and they fervently support their divisive "us vs them" mentality throughout the world.
More and more people see no difference between various forms of extreme religionism. It doesn't matter what religion it is, they're the same people just using religion as a means of feeding their hate-filled agenda of domination and exclusion. It's no wonder people are interested in alternative viewpoints when it's obvious that religionism is no guarantee of wisdom or morality and threatens to rend apart society as we know it.
Or maybe that's just me. - ZeroMP, on 10/12/2007, -12/+50"It seems like people who are deeply religious are prone to having hallucinations and delusions."
NO! Not true!!
I cite as undeniable evidence this article: http://www.local6.com/news/10660055/detail.html
...where Jesus himself was spotted in a tree.
Would you say that woman is having hallucinations?? I think not!
It is very clearly the face of Jesus and not just a typical face spotted
in a tree. - dearreid, on 10/12/2007, -11/+46It's like the Atheist otters on that episode of South Park, waging war because the other Atheists eat at tables instead of off of their bellies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3k-pr_ng_E
The problem is not any particular religion or lack thereof. It's the extremists who do terrible things, and they'll distort any belief system that's convenient to justify their means. There must be some kind of mental predisposition that some people have toward radicalism. Because for an outsider looking in, almost nothing any of them does makes any sense. - Fitzwarren, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36"Hitler most definitely was NOT a Christian."
I'm afraid he was a self declared Catholic (from Mein Kampf). Even if you decide he wasn't or that he later changed his mind on it (he tended to say whatever he needed to say to get what he wanted after all) his officers and army uniformly were Catholics (not arguable) and it was they who followed his orders to exterminate the Jewish people. Hating Jews is a peculiarity of the other two Abraham based religions remember. The Catholic church at the time refused to renounce Hitler and was never excommunicated. Saying he was excommunicated "by default" for his crimes is the current dodge of the church of course. The only real reason Hitler later had a problem with Catholicism was that he wanted National Socialism to replace it.
In all that I'm finding it hard to spot him take any type of pro-Atheism stance. - njackson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+37This is so disgusting and disheartening. I myself am an eagle scout and describe myself only as agnostic, but the actions here are only more evidence that religion can bring out the most evil anyone has ever seen. After reading the article I am convinced that this was a product of upbringing, as it seems the boy's entire family behaves the same way and probably thought he did the right thing! I'm definitely siding with Richard Dawkins on this one...
- unixer, on 10/12/2007, -6/+39@KazamaSmokers
After you quit boy scouts you can still say what rank you where. For example If two people had exactly the same thing on there resumes and one of them added Eagle scout that would make a difference considering only 2% of all people in boy scouts ever get there - pwner, on 10/12/2007, -14/+46All I know is, I'm happy that guy is in federal "pound me in the ass" prison. Maybe he'll convert to Islam after a while too.
- sp1keNARF, on 10/12/2007, -9/+38they're being hypocritical, because according to their own beliefs, only god may judge a person. i like to say, jesus, he's great. most of his followers, not so much.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30I completely agree. If a Muslim had done this, it would be all over the news and the christian Americans would stereotype Muslims even more. However, when Christians do these things, they are labeled as 'crazy' and 'insane', never 'terrorists' or 'extremists'.
- Linshiwen, on 10/12/2007, -25/+52"It seems like people who are deeply religious are prone to having hallucinations and delusions."
Intrinsically, yes. - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+29PabloMac: "Hitler most definitely was NOT a Christian."
Hitler most definitely WAS a Catholic--
"Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews ... The work that Christ started but could not finish, I -- Adolf Hitler -- will conclude." --Adolf Hitler, 1926
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," --Adolf Hitler, 1941
You act like being a Nazi and a Christian are somehow mutually exclusive. You need look no further than the current Pope to know that is false.
http://ffrf.org/fttoday/back/hitler.html - d4nie1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29I thought the Boy Scouts didn't allow atheists or agnostics to be members?
- kooft, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26Yeah, there does seems to be a lot of Muslim bashing articles around recently. I hate to see anyone die in the name of religion (or at all for that matter). I don't believe this sect of 'Christians' represents the majority of Christianity anymore than terrorists represent the majority of Muslims.
- thcobbs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25Extremes of any culture exist. And to Christians, this action is as reprehensible as any murder of this nature, especially since it was carried out in the name of the Christian religion.
- jacobmiller, on 10/12/2007, -17/+38Why would the guy have to be insane? Christians killing atheists (or anyone who doesn't adhere to their particular little sect for that matter) is nothing new. Inquisition anyone? Crusades?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition - oriondr, on 10/12/2007, -14/+34Uhmm.. Hitler wasn't an atheist. He was a Christian. Christians killed millions of Jews, not atheists.
- Derrekito, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26@revwolfwood
Women had their turn, and homosexuals had their turn. It's our turn now, buddy. Atheists are among the most untrusted in the U.S. and it is time to change that.
@TomP
I have been for a very long time as well, it was a difficult choice to make because of my family. It doesn't bother me so much anymore, just wish they were not waisting their time. - rnelsonee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22TheCaptain:
I think just because that's what the guy was talking about a lot -- God and his Eagle rank. Maybe because, if he was 50, that means he got his Eagle sometime around 1960, a time when being an Eagle Scout was more relevant. More people knew what an Eagle Scout was, and what it stood for, so he felt compelled to tell everyone what he was, as he felt people would be more likely to believe him. Some people today don't understand what it is when I tell them I'm an Eagle Scout (although I don't really tell people anymore, as the Boy Scouts of America has veered away from what I thought it once was - as an atheist who supports gay rights, I don't think the BSA would even give me an Eagle award if I was 18 again). - catbeller, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23Read the article. This isn't some chemical imbalance. The killer's whole family was waving bibles and calling the atheists "devils". This is religion. With the mask off and the tea set put away. That family is religiously insane, and should be a case study for Dawkinesque deconstruction, stat. They are killers and potential killers.
Religion is started in three ways.
1. Schizophrenia. Someone hears voices.
2. Fraud. Someone claims to hear voices.
3. A god speaks to someone. Since there are so many different religions, there are a lot of gods running around. I call shenanigans on them all. And if only one is real, the rest of the founders of religions fall into category 1 or 2, schizos or liars. And Occam's Razor says if 10,000 are wrong, then the last one is wrong as well, so 3 is off the list -- unless ALL religions are started by gods, in which case we have a real problem with pantheistic multiperson solipsism. If there are ten thousand homicidal spirits running around whispering secrets into people's ears, what we really have then is a public health problem combined with an animus control problem. - meshgiath, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20@Powercat
"It seems like people who are deeply religious are prone to having hallucinations and delusions. This guy was completely insane and is probably better off in jail."
I'd propose the opposite actually. From what I see, people who are prone to having hallucinations and delusions are deeply religious. - neoform, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20It's coming out of nowhere because there are tons of Atheists out there who are sick of all this religious ***** around the world resulting in carnage and we're tried of being the ones labeled as evil or satanic when it's clearly the religious that are doing all this evil.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22@salgat
Read the article and see how the Christian family behaved towards the atheists. - Evilstanley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Religion didn't even come up in any of my Board of Reviews, which is the way I think it should be. In my troop, you had the option to pursue religious badges if you wanted to, but they're in no way required for the rank of Eagle. This person is a disgrace not only to Christians and Boy Scouts but to humanity itself.
- excalibrax, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24@ KazamaSmokers
Yes they had eagle scouts 50 years ago...
@ jcblitz WTF - WarpFox, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20You can't be gay, however.
- computergod, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Well according to the bible you ARE supposed to kill atheists as well as anyone else who does not submit to the various silly commands your god.
Exodus 35:2: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.
More here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~owl233/biblequotes.htm
No, they are not out of context:
http://home.earthlink.net/~owl233/biblecomments.htm - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@"The story hits, and everyone jumps in with the 'Christian's are ***** crazy...' 'Christian's are what is wrong with the world today..."
To be fair, I haven't seen any crazy Buddhists kill anyone recently on the news. - Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I find it amusing that whenever religion/atheism comes up the flock repeatedly harp on about Hitler being an atheist, when in fact his own writings reveal he was a Christian repeatedly and unequivocally. Yet the same crowd is always claiming Einstein was a theist for making a metaphorical comment about god, they did this while he was alive and he clarified his position strongly that he did not believe in god.
I guess any "good" atheist is really a theist if she says, "oh god I am coming" during sex? "Bad" theists (ex Hitler) though are really atheists despite their own claims to the contrary. I suppose when you have belief system based on circular logic and no actual evidence, you can just choose to believe whatever you want to believe.
But let's be clear:
Hitler: Theist
Einstein: Atheist - ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -14/+29@toppgun
"as much good as religious organizations do, it is actions like this that make all that good go to waste"
*****. This HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. This has to do with people that are open to being murderers having an excuse to do it. This has as much to do with religion as kids on shooting sprees has to do with video games. People with mental problems are in the presence of a factor that gives them an excuse to do something crazy.
The real problem is that a LOT of people aren't making that connection and are berating religion, or video games, or paintball/laser tag, or wrestling, or boxing, or whatever other "violent" cause their simple minds can quickly latch onto as the scapegoat. The issue is not those things that spur the crazy into action, the issue is PEOPLE ARE FREAKING CRAZY.
Stop using scapegoats and just accept that some humans really just suck. - celeronxl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15@toppgun:
You realize atheists are absolutely not welcome in the Boy Scouts, right? There's a whole Penn&Teller: *****! about it. - isukeyo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15@ monergism:
"@Powercat
Do you have an itch to scratch PowerCat? It seems you dredge up a 3 year old article to state your opinion.
I wouldn't blame the religion for the murder. Remember, if he was following the commands of his religious leader he wouldn't kill. So, to suggest that the religion is the problem, is intellectually dishonest."
You've gotta be kidding! RTFA
"Word that we were Atheists traveled fast in this court room that offered very limited seating and the only others in attendance were 11 members of Shelton's family who immediately began taunting George and me with "the people from hell, evil, and devils."
"The one good thing of all of this is that another Atheist is dead and the world is better off for it" and "The only good Atheist is a dead Atheist."
These were statements from his family and friends outside the courtroom to the other Atheists. This man was apart of a group of religious hate mongers and based on their statements, clearly any one of them would be capable of doing this. - Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17Yup. Sweet, wasn't it?
- toppgun, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19jsd8c
as much good as religious organizations do, it is actions like this that make all that good go to waste. It is these types of actions, as rare as they are, that shame most religion. It is actions like these that make me lose trust in religion. It is this unquestioning loyalty to faith, this unquestioning devotion to their "god" that makes me despise religion and make me believe that all the evils it has brought upon us outweights the benefits.
Crusades, Inquisition and various other attacks on other lifestyles has caused me to see religion for what it really is, a manipulative opiate that keeps people from asking questions. It may give people emotional support in personal issues, but in the grand scheme of things, religion has brought more pain and suffering to humanity than good. - rationalist, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17@tekrat:
"Look at the story of 'The Good Shepherd' in your local theater. Another individual drive by a singular nationalistic based belief system."
Um, hate to break it to you, but The Good Shepherd is fiction; Edward Wilson, the character played by Matt Damon, is a fictional character.
I know, it's a subtle distinction, the one between fiction and reality, particularly for those who think the Bible isn't fiction, but it is a distinction nonetheless.
You remind me of Dan Quayle using Murphy Brown as an example of a single mother living out of wedlock. - chubbymidget, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"There now that that's done, let me just finish reading my bible".....
Gets to "Thou shall no kill" "Ohh Crap!!" - jsd8cc, on 10/12/2007, -10/+23Why can't I find this story on any reputable site? The only place I can find it is on atheist websites.
-
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