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51 Comments
- RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -2/+29It is more complicated than "screwed up." Buried at the end of the article is the story of black parent who herself used race as a selection criterion while hiring a nanny, "sighing with relief when a black one appeared." In the middle of the article are these two facts:
1. "Numerous black parents successfully employ nannies"
2. Many nannies of "African-American or Caribbean descent themselves" avoid working for black families.
"Numerous black parents successfully employ nannies, and many sitters say they pay no regard to race. But interviews with dozens of nannies and agencies that employ them in Atlanta, Chicago, New York and Houston turned up many nannies — often of African-American or Caribbean descent themselves — who avoid working for families of those backgrounds. Their reasons included accusations of low pay and extra work, fears that employers would look down at them, and suspicion that any neighborhood inhabited by blacks had to be unsafe." - SeafoodGumbo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22It is amusing to see how the NYT places these well-to-do black families in the victim's role. In addition to the example you noted, there's this passage:
“It seems like our own color looks down on us and takes advantage of us,” said Pansy Scott, a Jamaican immigrant in Brooklyn, basing her conclusions on working for a single black family years ago.
The reporter doesn't think that, even though this nanny may have worked for only one black family, she may have had scores of conversations with other nannies that helped her to arrive at her opinion.
And there's this curious passage:
"But some do have race-based preferences themselves. African-American professionals, who constantly battle the stereotype that blacks do not speak proper English, sometimes hesitate to hire Caribbean nannies who speak with lilting accents or island patois"
These families are discriminating, but since they're the featured victims of an approved group, the reporter will supply a valid reason for their discriminating. If this were a white family practicing the same choices, it would be called racism by the NYT.
In a related note, when I used to wait tables, black waiters would complain if they got a table of blacks (bad tips) and would tell you that they prefered to get a table of whites because they tipped at a much higher rate. Similarly, black cab drivers also avoid picking up young black fares because of the risk of being robbed. - Deuterium, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Boo frickin hoo, cry me a river. So pay your nannys a living wage and you won't have this problem. Frickin rich people, black or white.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14My heart bleeds for the rich, be they black or white. If only one could find some decent truffles to go with the Dom Perignon and caviar! Oh woe is me! I'll have to send the manservant to Italy to do the weekly shopping.
- caederus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Having hired a Nanny about a year ago, it is like posting a job for a new family member. The decision is based as much on emotion as it is ability. A 2 year old doesn't understand being professional to "get the job done" he/she is pure emotion. So going with something that would be emotionally acceptable for both the family and the Nanny is a big hurdle, and the hardest hurdle to overcome.
So if anyone on any side of the relationship is the least bit uncomfortable it will not work, and the parents are back looking for a Nanny. I have seen white families go through a new Nanny every couple of months because of a focus on "experience" or "ability" and down playing the emotion. This is very detrimental to the kid(s). - zgystardst, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9From the article: "Many of the African-American nannies who make up 40 percent of her work force fear that people of their own color will be “uppity and demanding,” said Ms. Cascio, who is white."
"uppity and demanding"! ROFLMAO! - reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10It's a sad fact that most black neighborhoods have the highest crime rates.I'll be honest, I wouldn't want to work there everyday of the week.
I live in Birmingham, AL, and most of the shootings you hear about happen in black urban neighborhoods, and I'm sure the case is same in most of the bigger cities. Of course, this is a class issue more than a race issue, but still.
I think it was Chris Rock who said this (paraphrased): "Even black people don't want to live in a black neighborhood." - monergism, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I can believe it. Hiring a mother to take on your responsibility can be exasperating.
- trotter, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8HOLD UP. This Mr. Boone character says:
"To have someone refer to other black people as ‘colored,’ what does that teach your child about race?”
but
“There were points where I got so frustrated that I picked up my child and I said, ‘Tomasina will show you out,’ ” said Mr. Boone, who is African-American and serves on the board of the National Association for the Advancement of COLORED People. (emphasis mine).
seriously. - terrya64, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Velcro on the ceiling, problem solved.
- kremvax, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I think the nyt writer did a good job of laying out a lot of things that surround a very messed up issue.
A lazier journalist wouldn't have brought out the issues that carribean blacks have with american blacks in NYC. And while they didn't need to point out the complexities of blue collars blacks working for middle class blacks, they did a good job of explaining a subtle challenging topic.
The writer did a lot of legwork, got a lot of very candid interviews, and brought out a lot of complexities that could have just been glossed over as "it's hard to get a nanny when you're black." - Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a black nanny would make such a statement in an article about blacks having racial issues with finding a nanny?
In any case, why would they say ". . . humiliating exercise for many blacks, the kind of ordeal that makes them wonder aloud what year it is." If that's a reference to the old days when white-against-black racism was what was causing the hardship, they'd better look again: the problem is that even black nannys aren't willing to serve in black families. - realchris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5..."said Barbara Kline,the owner of White House Nannies" kind of an appropriate agency name in this context...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18Sorry, I meant black people.
Do these people of African descent honestly believe they're the only group having a hard time finding a ***** nanny? I mean Jesus, it's not enough they receive special actions in recruitment, hiring, and other employment opportunities; now they have to complain to the Times they can't find a nanny in a city with 8 million ***** people?
Give me a break. - Jelfish, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5There's an underlying social issue here. Minority races have to deal with the fact that their race identifies them when they're in an environment of the majority race (think token black character). Thus, despite the fact that the mid/upper-class black family in the article may be financially and sophisticatedly equal to mid/upper-class white families, they must deal with the fact that upon first impression, most people will still see them as black before they see them as successful or normal. The result of this is that there is strong tension between classes within minority races. When, say, a lower class black person (or any race) acts in a way that lends to a generalization (the way a person speaks, acts, dresses, etc.), all black people suffer from this stereotype. Therefore, people who wish to rid themselves of that stereotype, typically more upper class people or people with many white friends, shy away from associating with those who fit the stereotype, for fear that people will project that image onto them. It's an internal fear that your personal identity is at stake.
This thing happens in all races, and even outside of race. A lot of male homosexuals (particularly those who are in the closet) dislike effeminate men because they perpetuate a stereotype. Or when "cooler" geeks disassociate themselves from nerds.. it's an underlying insecurity. - CanceledCzech, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Congratulations, you fail.
- VicousT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4So according to this article, black are discriminating against themselves??? Interesting.
- kronix2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5In Soviet digg, Russian reversal buries you.
- dgolding, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This could also be about the "new rich". Its not uncommon for folks who are newly affluent to have a problem handling domestic servants and have other issues around having, well, lots of money. The fear (possibly reasonable) of mistreatment of nannies by black employers could have to do with this.
- chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4LOL - haven't heard that one in a loooong time! So funny, yet so wrong.
- Derrekito, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@sillydigger
I think you meant to put a "/sarcasm" in there somewhere? - kronix2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The synopsis doesn't make clear that it's black nannies refusing to work for black families, and vice-versa. The "makes them wonder what year it is" comment implies it's racism from whites.
Marked as inaccurate. - Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5what people?
- theprodigy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Do you really think that upper-class blacks live in the bad neighborhoods you're thinking of?
- MacTad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oh how absolutely and utterly ridiculous! Has it occurred to ANY of these people that there are more black neighborhoods that DON'T have shootings every night than those that do? Of course not! They are too busy bowing to racist stereotypes. You are right in that it is a matter of class and not race. I live in an area that is mostly middle-class blacks. There have been a grand total of *TWO* murders in the 34 years I've lived here. The first was white on white where the guy picked up a trick, brought him back to his home and was murdered by said trick. The second was a very sad instance of a woman being stalked by her ex-husband, who finally shot her. They were both black.
I'd really love to see someone say that this is a high crime area because most, though not all, of the people on this part of the boulevard are black. The police are Johnny-on-the-spot when ANYTHING happens. They even help search for lost dogs! And the fire department takes a maximum of THREE MINUTES to get to my house and other houses in the area. This is in no way a den of crime. There are similar neighborhoods all over the country. However, the news focuses on crime, blood and death. I'm a journalist--a PRINT journalist. No one could pay me enough money to work for a television news network because doing so means I'd have to sacrifice my integrity. There was mention of new immigrants watching the news and seeing all the mayhem with blacks at the center. They do not understand that news, especially local news, caters to people's inner bigotry. And why not? They've done nothing but encourage it with their slanted depictions of black people. Not all local news is that bad, but I'd say that most are.
The biggest problem in America other than, but in concert with, race is the lack of critical thinking in the average American mind. We are intellectually lazy. If there were more critical thinking, I'm betting race wouldn't be such a problem. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2maybe if they stopped dealing drugs this situation would not arise?
- danlucas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2There's also the possibility their perceptions have been colored by what they see in the news, one bad experience in the past, or just stereotypes being perpetuated throughout people they know even if they've never experienced it themselves. Prejudice can come from lots of sources, some more legitimate than others. It's more complicated than just being prejudice with or without evidence.
- VicousT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Did you even read the article? It's not just a black/white issue.
“Very rarely will an African-American woman work for an African-American boss,” said Pat Cascio, the owner of Morningside Nannies in Houston and the president of the International Nanny Association.
Many of the African-American nannies who make up 40 percent of her work force fear that people of their own color will be “uppity and demanding,” said Ms. Cascio, who is white. After interviews, she said, those nannies “will call us and say, ‘Why didn’t you tell me’ ” the family is black? " - desistere, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2LOL Don't teach my child to refer to people as "colored!" I will teach them myself by joining an organization that uses the archaic term.
There's some serious problems with the ways we discuss race in this country. Perhaps one of the biggest problems is the confusion between African American and black. Wake up! Not all blacks are African or American. Not all Africans are black. Not all African Americans are black...
Call a spade a spade but don't assume a shovel is one too. We need to stop using African American as a blanket term for all people with dark skin. The term African American should only be used to describe Africans which have immigrated here in the current generation. If we are to call people African Americans who once came from Africa, then all people are worthy of that title. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8These 'Soviet Russia' and '3. ????? 4. Profit!' jokes are ***** nauseating, not funny, and a waste of server space/bandwidth.
- jaythree9, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The United States of America: What a country!
- Alphateam, on 10/12/2007, -12/+13I wouldn't want the job.
- JesusIsSatan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If this story is even marginally true and not your typical "It's because I'm black" rant, then it is BLACK NANNIES who are racist against black families. In NYC, it's mostly black or minority nannies taking care of white children.
- jangeloca, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I read the article also and I have know those that have worked as a Nanny ,, you want to know what a Nanny is looking for?
1). Respectful work environment from the Parents , this is not a position to play attitude and power trips with
2). Good Pay = Living Wage
3). Nanny does not equal House Keeper , Personal Assistant plus watch the kids
4). Patience - If you have specific skill sets that you need learned then take the time to teach them , like how to work with a person of colors hair and do it with the attitude you are happy that the Nanny is willing to work with you
5). Good Working conditions and location of where you live can be one of them
Having Staff is not a right its a privelage and its not suppose to be a cheap one either that is unless you want to hire an illegal - aschocobo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5your ignorance is staggering.
Name: Tomasina/ gender: Girl/ origin: English/ meaning: Variant of Thomasina
Name: Tomasina/ gender: Girl/ origin: Hebrew/ meaning: Twin
Name:Tomasine/ gender: Girl/ origin: Hebrew/ meaning: Twin
from http://www.babynamecorner.com/babynames/t/21/ - kidcodea, on 10/12/2007, -8/+8what they need a nanny for? she wont teach the baby to slamdunk
- mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I always thought that was funny, too. Just like the Unite Negro College Fund. Go to a bar filled with black (or African Americans, or whatever we're supposed to say now) customers and say "you negro's are alright with me" and see what happens.
- haasim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I just wanted to say that "kremvax" nicely articulated what makes the New York Times such a great publication. The aforementioned article could have been very superficial and sensational, but it wasn't. Instead, the author concisely explored complex subject matter without giving easy answers.
On a side note: It's disappointing that online discussions about race always degenerate into... "I hate affirmative action" and "what are those black people complaining about now". - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3"Tomasina"
*ROFL* - jetsetter883, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0maybe they are afraid of the smell.
- PacoDG, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3All the while people are still get hired based on color of their skin for EEOC regulations, over people who are possibly more qualified then them.
Its all a sham. I am Ecuadorian, Japanese, Italian, and Irish (the "blacks of europe"?), am I too mixed to get any benefits because of race?! - mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1""these people"
Nice way to make yourself sound like a stupid racist or actually be a stupid racist."
Oh, shut the hell up. THESE is a pronoun. It's used to replace a more specific noun or in this case an adjective. He didn't say anything offensive, it's English, plain and simple - you heard it and interpreted it in a way that you wanted to, nothing more. I'm getting pretty tired of minorities immediately assuming everyone hates them, it's just a self-fulfilling attitude.
Example: I worked for a large telecom company, who was laying people off in my state, but at the same time bringing in workers from another state to do work in our state. I liked the guys, who happened to be black, just fine, but I didn't like the management decision to do that. I mentioned that people here were being laid off while "these people" were being transferred to work here. These people as in "these people from another state". But, of course, one of them had to assume it was a racial remark and got bent out of shape about it. I had to go on the defensive and explain my comment, because this jerk ASSUMED I was racist. It's things like that that slowly make someone racist. If every comment is assumed to be framed in an "us vs. them" mode, eventually I'm just going to assume that (the proverbial) you think I'm racist and don't like me, and as such I'm not going to say anything to you or interact with you because it's just going to end up creating trouble. - Winkyboy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2From the article, "In visits, telephone calls and e-mail exchanges across the country, nannies of all colors spoke of parents in sweeping ethnic generalizations: the Jews this, the Indians that."
So, why is this true? It's because EITHER nannies of all colors are typically racist, OR generalizations about races of people tend to be true. The next question is: which is more likely the case? - x00x, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Only the new York Times, the liberal media's organ of record would waste resources on a story like this. Oh! Blacks can never escape the
prejudice and racism so palpably prevalent in WHITE RACIST America. I mean, it's only about 150 years since slavery.. and no matter what
black people do, no matter how financially successful l they make become WHITE AMERICA will never let them BLACKS feel truly feel.
Oh! What miserable fate life has in store fo BLACKS. No matter the ten year NBA contracts at $25million per.
Soon the New York Times will demand a federally backed affirmative action program that guarantees BLACKS a nanny, WHITE of course .to legislate the inhumanity of it all away. - x00x, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Only the New York Times, the liberal media's organ of record would waste resources on a story like this. Oh! Blacks can never escape the
prejudice and racism so palpably prevalent in WHITE RACIST America. I mean, it's only about 150 years since slavery.. and no matter what
black people do, no matter how financially successful they become WHITE AMERICA will never let BLACKS feel truly free.
Oh! What miserable fate life has in store for BLACKS. No matter the ten year NBA contracts at $25million per. doctors, lawyers, professionals with
near100% financial parity with Americans WHITE RACIST AMERICA WILL NEVER LET THEM OUT FROM UNDER THEIR BLACKNESS
Soon the New York Times will demand a federally backed affirmative action program that guarantees BLACKS a nanny, WHITE of course .to legislate the inhumanity of it all away. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2I blame "it" on inbreeding.
- Fireinthedisco, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1thearrow
Good luck finding a black man in Russia. It's way too damn cold - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2@"Derrek Landauer"
"My bad" I forgot some of you people can't comprehend english so I can understand why you came to the conclusion that I was kidding. Lets try this again....
If I wuz uh young biotch I wouldn't wants ta werk fo' dem either cuz dere iz so many thin' dat could jet wrong. My most common fears would be sexual assaults from da males an' physical assaults from da overly aggressive females. just like mammy.
Yo Yo Yo! *scratches record* dat be tight yo. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -21/+12These people will always find something to complain about, very loathsome actually.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -19/+9If I was a young woman I wouldn't want to work for them either because there are so many thing that could go wrong. My most common fears would be sexual assaults from the males and physical assaults from the overly aggressive females.
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