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74 Comments
- Bught, on 02/22/2009, -3/+62Red light cameras are not to reduce accidents, they are to make more money for the cities that implement them. That's why there are several cases of the yellow lights on such intersections being really short sometimes to the point of being illegal according to traffic regulations.
- inactive, on 02/22/2009, -9/+57Red light cameras cause more accidents than they prevent.
- DrLeePhD, on 02/22/2009, -0/+30you know what this means when people vacation in cleveland and rent a car...
wait, that never happens. - Rememberthe0511, on 02/22/2009, -3/+23A IP address is not a person and nether is a car a person. I have no idea how it is legal to send someone a ticket because a picture was taken of their car. The whole thing is nothing but greed.
- inactive, on 02/22/2009, -1/+20I'm sure the dealer has a clause in the leasing contract that puts you in charge of the "FINE".
- AlienMushroom, on 02/21/2009, -1/+15The appeal fee's so expensive.
- treefrog001, on 02/22/2009, -0/+13Red light cameras should only be allowed if there is also a "countdown display" that shows the number of seconds remaining until the light turns yellow. We have a number of those where I live (the walk/don't walk display turns into a countdown display when there are 10 seconds left), and they're GREAT. We don't have red light cameras, but the countdown displays are wonderful in the winter when the roads are icy, and you're wondering whether you can make a light, or need to start slowing down so that you can stop safely without sliding through the intersection.
- Coopjust, on 02/22/2009, -4/+17I'm glad this loophole exists. Red light cameras suck. Often, cities put the yellow light time below the state/federal/city legal minimum to make it more profitable. They're disgusting, and they cause way more accidents than they prevent.
I'm sure Ohio will just amend the law. It's not a reasonable expectation for the company issuing the lease to have to pay for the tickets of people they lease to. - kashk5, on 02/22/2009, -1/+11You clearly missed the part about the yellow light span being shortened to the point where reasonable drivers are being ticketed as the yellow light turned out to be shorter than they expected. Hence why people call such cameras money makers for the municipality rather than a means to curb red light violations.
Also, these cameras will take a picture even if you're just a little bit past the line. Say it's raining or snowing and the car takes a little longer than usual to stop, but does so just a little bit past the line. Regardless of the circumstances, that guy is still going to get a ticket because of the way the system is set up. - Pinkertinkle, on 02/22/2009, -2/+12Why should the owner be responsible? Tickets should given to people not cars, Cleveland's just trying to make another buck.
- vsujohn2, on 02/22/2009, -2/+10Having long yellow times (even only slightly) and NOT traffic cameras will help prevent major accidents. With the traffic cameras you have to shorten the yellow to the point of being unrealistic in order to make the whole system cost effective, but then it makes it more likely to result in fender benders.
- ShugNinx21, on 02/22/2009, -0/+8Very Rarely do cops pull over and or ticket for not having a front license plate where it's required.
One reason is if you have a neighboring state that doesn't require them then the cops can't tell if you're supposed to have one or not.
From the rear they can see you're from their state and should have a front plate, but they can't see the front of your car.
When they see you from the front, they see no plate, but you could be from PA where they don't require front plates.
Needless to say they don't spend time trying to look at the fronts and rear of every car they see, and most of the time don't remember to look for it. - ShugNinx21, on 02/22/2009, -0/+8You too tools need to learn that weed does not kill people.
I don't find it particularly awesome and find it rather overrated, the same way that teenagers go ape bananas ***** about drinking, but comparing it to a massive pile up in a intersection that would result in injury and death is just ignorant. - TommyHigh, on 02/22/2009, -6/+13I used to work for a government transport department (reporting on accidents), and I can quite honestly say (from experience), that red light cameras DO NOT cause more accidents (statistics for this are quite clear), and in fact reduce major accidents at problem intersections.
- borninda818, on 02/22/2009, -0/+6the person driving is in the picture as well, and that person gets the ticket. At least that's how it is in California. They even black out the passenger so that you spouse doesn't see who you are cheating on him/her with.
If it is the owner, that's a pretty bitch move. Moral of the story: don't install your front license plate. - curtisag, on 02/22/2009, -1/+7Here's another loophole, move to a city that doesn't ***** you.
- Cerebron, on 02/22/2009, -1/+7Not everyone reports fender benders, but you can't hide a major pile up.
- mcquitty, on 02/22/2009, -0/+5In Dallas, they have run into a problem. You see, the cameras were put up and then people stopped running the red lights. This made the cameras more expensive to operate than the revenue they generated. So, they actually talked about raising rates as a way to solve this.
Tell me it's not about money. - MickJT, on 02/22/2009, -0/+5Exactly what I thought. I read down to see if someone had already made the comment.
- Fixhotep, on 02/22/2009, -0/+5You're wrong about them not causing accidents. After putting a ton of these in Houston, rear-end accidents have sky rocketed. People are so paranoid of getting a ticket that they are slamming on their breaks instead of going through.
We have a few red-light cameras at intersections where expressways end and people are going 55+ (55 is the posted limit). It doesn't go down to 40mph until after the lights. These intersections have seen a large increase in accidents since the cameras were installed. - benitojuarez, on 02/22/2009, -0/+4I only get a ticket for no front plate when im being pulled over for something else, but not always. ive gotten 3 warnings and an actual ticket. Come to think of it i havent been hassled about it in 6 or 7 years though.
- SumoSniper, on 02/22/2009, -0/+4Maybe you Americans are just weird.
Here in Perth none of that ***** happens. It would seem indeed that you guys just need to extend the yellow phase a bit. I've never heard of having to rush for lights. Hell, here, if a road is at or over 80kph coming up to a set of lights, there are warning lights about 100 meters back that flash well before the yellow starts so that trucks can slow down.
It sounds less like the Red light cameras are the problem as the design of the light phases. - cupholder, on 02/22/2009, -1/+5"Longer yellow." What does that solve? If some tard is barrelling through during a changing yellow, they'll still have a chance of wrecking.
Longer switch time would solve this. Sure, that means that all 4 sides are red for longer, but that would solve it. - Cerebron, on 02/22/2009, -0/+4The owner will pay the fine, but I'm sure the contract ensure the driver will have to pay the owner.
- kashk5, on 02/22/2009, -0/+4It's not that they're bored, it's what they're hired to do. It's also the way the system gets fixed, slowly and meticulously. Also, it doesn't matter what the legislators meant at the time of writing the law, it's what was actually written. Legislative intent is usually only found at the federal level as most local governments don't have side notes about each law they pass. So no, we can't just assume what the law was meant to be, we have to stick with what is actually written down. If there's a problem with it, the legislature can then go back and correct the flaw.
- inactive, on 02/22/2009, -0/+4Problem is you still have to face a judge when you go to court. And there's no guarantee he or she is going to have sense of humor about this.
They could easily tell you to pay the ticket knowing there's nothing you can do except spend 20 times as much money getting a lawyer to fight it. - Corrosionx, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3This is why democracy doesn't work.
- Paulish, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3No such city exists. Every city will try to ***** you in one hole or the other. The only choice you have is which way you like being violated more.
- kashk5, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3In many states you're required to have a front license plate. Sure, you won't get your picture taken, but a cop is going to pull you over, so you get a ticket anyway.
- qwertydvorak, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3here's how to fix all problems with speed / red light cameras.
http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm - s0nicfreak, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3@ShugNinx21
but what if they go in front of you AND behind you?
"No front license plate, hmmm, let me see what state he's from..." - PopcornDave, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3The only problem with the countdown displays is that they all have to be consistent. In San Francisco they have those, but some turn yellow when it hits 0, and some wait a few seconds after they hit 0 so you're never quite sure what type it is.
- catxors, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3In the US they also like to do a few seconds of red on all sides as a safety margin, which is probably why people run those reds in the first place: they know (or "know") that the other direction won't get green for a few seconds, so it's actually OK. I don't do this because I'm anal about driving regs (except speed limits) but it's understandably tempting.
- supermanred, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3I lease a VW, and I can assure you that if you run a red light you are better off taking the ticket yourself than going to court and having them send the ticket to your LEASING COMPANY... Probably not a good idea if you want to continue leasing your car. Im sure somewhere in the 8 pages of small print on the lease is a clause that will allow them to tell you to go ***** yourself if you have a traffic ticket sent to THEM instead of taking care of it yourself.
- j0en, on 02/22/2009, -0/+3I dont know about that but the guy who invented them is a douchebag,
- cawpin, on 02/23/2009, -1/+3If it reads "owner" then anybody that doesn't own their vehicle outright is safe. If I'm paying on a loan the bank owns the car, not me.
- gkisystems, on 02/22/2009, -1/+3The owner shouldn't be held liable for the driver's actions.
- paulvq, on 02/23/2009, -0/+2You're exactly right. I absolutely hate turning left when the arrow is green and the douchebag in front of me decides to slow down making the camera flash on me.
- inactive, on 02/22/2009, -1/+3The car violated the law. As such, the owner of the vehicle is liable for the actions, regardless of who was at the wheel.
Look at auto insurance. You insure the vehicle, not the driver. - mike23w, on 02/22/2009, -0/+2Can't the rental company charge the driver for the ticket?
- Buckeye17, on 02/22/2009, -0/+2I was pulled over on a busy highway, I-71, for not having a front plate. Got a $25 ticket + $70 court costs (even though I mailed in my ticket, still had to pay those). I'm in Ohio by the way.
- thcobbs, on 02/23/2009, -0/+2Incorrect. They have a lien on the car... you still own it. That's why your name is on the title, but you don't get the title. The title of the vehicle goes to the lien-holder.
Lease-holders do not own their car... the dealership does. - gcnaddict, on 02/22/2009, -1/+3Pusod notes that some lease contracts forward fines to the driver, but based on the wording of the law, I'm not sure if the contract itself would be able to defer the fines. If the law explicitly states "owner," then the owner of the car will incur the fine, regardless of contract.
IANAL - Abomonog, on 02/22/2009, -0/+2"Very Rarely do cops pull over and or ticket for not having a front license plate where it's required. "
You haven't been to Virginia I would guess. The police here are very keen on stopping drivers without front plates. They know what states require them and will jump on you even if you're visiting from Illinois or California (both also require front plates). - Coopjust, on 02/23/2009, -0/+2You didn't understand what I was saying.
Many times, cities (New York, Chattanooga, Dallas, many others) set yellow lights below LEGAL MINIMUMS. These minimums are intended to give drivers time to either make it through the yellow (the "point of no return" if they are approaching the intersection quickly and don't have adequate time to brake) or stop at the light. Cities put the limits lower to get more revenue.
It is also true that rear end crashes go up significantly at these intersections.
For more info, here is a good article:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2008/04/red-li ... - gkisystems, on 02/22/2009, -1/+3I'm a member of the National Motorists Association (motorists.org). They are dedicated to help protect the rights of drivers and do things like paying your speeding ticket it you take it to court and lose. Anyhow, this is one of their key issues and they are going to release a 9-year studying showing how red light cameras are a scam. More info:
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/ - meiran, on 02/23/2009, -0/+1Indeed they do. Or at least in the office where I work, even though the "registered owner" is responsible for the fine, the leasing company or rental car company pay the fine and then investigate to figure out who earned the citation and *boom* hit them with DOUBLE the original fine.
So have luck with that loophole everybody! - humperdeath, on 02/24/2009, -0/+1If you wanna drive like a dick, go ahead, just don't crash into someone else.
We can get by with just one law: Hit someone, or something with your car, go to jail. Thats it - walgman, on 02/23/2009, -0/+1Did anyone else think it was the other meaning of RED-Light?
- nogodforme, on 03/14/2009, -0/+1Red light cameras also cause people to MOVE or BOYCOTT that city.
Take Orlando for example. They have Red Light cameras. I'm visiting with friends from the UK in April. We're going to Sea World of Florida, but that's the only thing we're doing in Orlando. We're BOYCOTTING the city completely. Not eating at any restaurants, not buying gas, or souvineers. The city will get absolutely nothing from us in the form of tax revenue and tips.
The people from the UK are staying in Haines City, not Orlando. -
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