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74 Comments
- lhbaker, on 11/14/2007, -6/+36That ties things up nicely, doesn't it. Pilot ***** up, scapegoat dies, and murderer becomes hero. Vote Ron Paul.
Kidding! - doktorrocket, on 11/14/2007, -4/+32If a drunk driver kills my wife, kids, and 68 other people, my first thought would be "68 people? What the hell was he driving!?" followed shortly by "Wait, I had a wife and kids?"
- Lindane, on 11/14/2007, -3/+27"While in prison, I did not feel I was away from my motherland."
Kind of says more about Russia than the prison I think, haha. - Extracheese, on 11/14/2007, -5/+26I'm not really sure what the right answer is in this case but I sympathize for the guy losing his wife and kids. According to the article, the controller "refused to apologize" while the man had even attempted to show him pictures of his children. Its just an unfortunate situation. For all we know...and I'm kind of assuming...the controller was a bit of an ass and pushed this guys buttons and he snapped. Though clearly, a hero's welcome isn't necessary..
- stklaw, on 11/14/2007, -1/+19Are you saying that outside Russia, you kill heroes?
- stronglikedan, on 11/15/2007, -15/+30In soviet Russia, heroes kill YOU!
- wes00mertes, on 11/14/2007, -2/+15I don't watch Rescue Me and while I would definitely think about killing that person, that is an entirely different story than me actually killing him, serving 5 years in prison then being hailed as a hero.
- inactive, on 11/15/2007, -9/+22So, lets say a drunk driver hits and kills your wife and kids and 68 other people. Everyone here is going to say you don't even think, just for a second, about killing that person? Anyone watch Rescue Me?
- mikhon, on 11/14/2007, -2/+13no killer should be proclaimed a hero... but there is always two sides to the story, here is some info on that crash:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkirian_Airlines_F ... - dillyhoo, on 11/14/2007, -3/+14Gotta love vigilantism, kind of makes you look differently at all the "that guys should be shot/raped/disfigured/etc" responses you see to ugly crimes.
- wes00mertes, on 11/14/2007, -2/+12... wtf. So it is the pilots fault because he trusted the controller?
With that logic, it was his family's fault for trusting the pilot to trust the controller. - jesperhh, on 11/14/2007, -1/+11If by drunk driver you mean a person who is stressed because the company he is working pushes their employees too hard and have ***** equipment that doesnt work then no, i wouldnt blame that person, i would blame the company.
Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkirian_Airlines_F ... - stephant, on 11/14/2007, -0/+9Way to pick out one part of the article and ignore the rest. Did you read this part?
"A Swiss court this year found four air traffic control managers guilty of manslaughter over the accident, giving three of them 12-month suspended sentences each and fining the fourth. Four other employees were acquitted.
Defendants in the trial mainly blamed Mr Nielsen - who was alone on duty on the night of the accident - for poorly handling the events leading up to the crash in Swiss-controlled air space over the German town of Ueberlingen.
When the two planes collided, both the main and the back-up telephone were out of order, radar software displaying flight co-ordinates was in a restricted mode and Mr Nielsen's only colleague was on a coffee break."
Suppose this guy didn't think he had anything to do with it and he blamed the people that left him up there with no phones or help. Suppose he felt like he was prosecuted unfairly and sued unfairly and now this crazed man wants him to get on his knees and beg forgiveness. Isn't that one way to read the article as well? You guys are pretty damn heartless to think that there is ANY justification for killing some guy because of this. - computergod, on 11/14/2007, -0/+8He came to this guys house with his kids photos, and goes into "a blind rage" when he gets shoved out of the guy's house. Fair enough, but WHY DID HE BRING A KNIFE WITH HIM?
- DeskFlyer, on 11/14/2007, -0/+8Yeah, it is a tough situation all around. I couldn't imagine what was going though either of their minds after the accident. But keep in mind that only one party had malicious intent to harm anyone here....
- geoken, on 11/14/2007, -2/+9So what is and is not welcomed in Russia can now be determined by the views of some random 'group'. Can I choose some random group in America and infer the entire country's belief system from that of the afformentioned group?
- puto, on 11/14/2007, -2/+9"trusted the controller"
And the controller let them down.
If they both would have trusted the auto system, this would not have happened. In other words if the controller had said nothing, then there would have been no accident. - BabyWookie, on 11/14/2007, -1/+8If you want to dwell on history, why not go back to the early 17th century, when you Poles tried to gain control of Russia by installing Dimitry the False, the fake czar and repeatedly invading and pillaging the country. If the whole of Russia hadn't risen up against you, united by Duke Pozharsky, the Russians would still be speaking Polish. BTW, do you hate the Germans too? They killed a lot more Poles than the Russians ever had. One also has to consider that at the time of Katyn Forest, Russia was part of the USSR, which was micro-managed by a psychotic absolute despot, who spoke Russian with a thick accent. Also, who started the Cheka (aka NKVD, aka KGB)? A Pole named Felix Dzierzhinsky, that’s who. Seriously, get over your hate. It’s not healthy.
- crapmatic, on 11/14/2007, -0/+7Even more interesting:
"[The suspect] said he had gone to the air traffic controller's, Peter Nielsen, house to show him the photos of his children who had died in the crash. But he said Nielsen had hit his hand and motioned him to leave. Kaloyev said the envelope containing the photos had fallen out of his hands. "I was unaware of what I was doing. It seemed to me my children were turned in their coffins and thrown out of them. I don't remember, I don't know what I was doing," he said."
It's almost like that "she slipped onto the knife" story.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20051025/41890668.html - Cypres0099, on 11/14/2007, -0/+7For some reason I saw the headline and instantly thought of Guitar Hero. There's something wrong with me.
- Instaa, on 11/14/2007, -1/+8He wasn't a drunk driver though, he was a single guy on duty with no working telephones....easily a recipe for disaster.
- computergod, on 11/14/2007, -3/+10This isn't a drunk driver, this is a guy doing is job with bad support/equipment. ***** troll.
- BabyWookie, on 11/14/2007, -2/+8What happens was that the Russian guy tried to show the air dispatecher his dead children's photos and the guy pushed him, causing the pictures to scatter on the ground, at which point the Russian guy snapped.
- pilot3033, on 11/14/2007, -1/+7The controller gave one aircraft an order to climb, and the other to descend. The pilot of the aircraft ordered to descend was also getting warnings from his TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System), and orders to climb from it. So...both aircraft ascended and hit.
Either way, there is a reason we as people have come up with a justice system, so people don't take law into to their own hands, and dish out punishments they see fit. The fact that this guy is coming home with a shortened sentence and is being treated as a hero is disgusting. - Comatose51, on 11/14/2007, -1/+6A plane full of Russians who happen to be the children of many high Russian officials go down in a crash. A man shows up at the controller's house with a picture of his supposed kid PLUS A KNIFE and kills him in an instance of blind rage? Right. This isn't the first or only time the Russian government have murdered someone on foreign soil.
- tmbrwolf19, on 11/14/2007, -0/+5You don't even seem to understand what an air traffic controller does. An air traffic controller acts like the lines on the highway. They feed the pilots information on where they are supposed to be in an imaginary lane in the sky. The pilots have a wide range of instruments at their disposable and they are ultimately the ones in control of the plane. Saying that it was the ATC's fault is looking for someone to blame at its worst. If you family was killed by a drunk driver, you would be pissed at the driver... not the highway crew that built the road.
- mrurc, on 11/14/2007, -1/+6Thanks! The crash was obviously a tragedy and the man's defense that he was having a nervous breakdown is certainly plausible. Still, a hero? Not so much.
- stephant, on 11/14/2007, -2/+6Then you're an idiot. An idiot for two reasons: 1) There is almost a 100% chance you wouldn't have the guts to do it and 2) if you did you'd be worse than the guy that killed your family. At least he accidentally did it because he was drunk and terribly irresponsible. He wasn't taking the law into his own hands or settling a score. You, well you'd just be a murderer. If civilized society agreed with your ridiculous opinion there wouldn't be civilized society anymore.
- Pilot85, on 11/14/2007, -3/+7Ok, first, it seems like Nielsen (at least from what I could gather from the article) was the only one who DIDN'T ***** up that night of the crash. Second, what the hell is with these weak ass prison sentences? 12 months SUSPENDED sentence for manslaughter? 5 years out of 8 for friggin murder? And they thank him when he murders the man who was trying to do his job properly?
- Fizban140, on 11/14/2007, -0/+4Those were the managers of the tower, they could have been people who trained the employees, enforced policy and procedures and other similar stuff. They didn't cause the accident, they probably weren't even working that night.
- JointheArmy, on 11/14/2007, -3/+7"What happens was that the Russian guy tried to show the air dispatecher his dead children's photos and the guy pushed him, causing the pictures to scatter on the ground, at which point the Russian guy snapped."
This was already posted, but in the reply section so I reposted it for everyone to see.
The man was just trying to get an apology from the air traffic controller and he was being a dick from what I could tell. If I was him I would apologize even though I didn't think it was my fault. But to push the guy instead of showing sympathy for his loss...he was asking for trouble. This doesn't excuse the murder, but if I just lost my family I probably wouldn't be thinking very objective as I would now. So I can see how this little push could lead me to taking it out on the guy I held responsible. - Pilot85, on 11/14/2007, -0/+4upon further research, the accident summary by the ICAO
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id= ...
(TCAS stands for Traffic Collision Avoidance System)
It appears to have been a case of TCAS said one thing, controller said the other, and no one told anyone else in time. I think they wrote a book about this very situation, called Tracon. It was a pretty good read. They really need to tell pilots either follow ATC or follow TCAS when it comes up, one or the other. This confusion is deadly. - danwallace, on 11/14/2007, -4/+8I wouldn't think about it, no. I'd just do it.
- computergod, on 11/14/2007, -0/+4Yeah, they why did he come to the guys house with a knife?
- WaldoX, on 11/15/2007, -7/+10Nielsen was just doing his job, the approval of his murder this says alot about russian society/culture. Vitaly Kaloyev is still a child, he needs to grow up first before he can be a man.
- jesperhh, on 11/14/2007, -1/+4TehSwat has a point, read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkirian_Airlines_F ... - inactive, on 11/14/2007, -0/+3just in case his point didn't get through
- computergod, on 11/14/2007, -1/+3The protocol is damn clear and the pilot didn't follow it, still the controller bears some responsibility, but they were both doing a hard job with not enough resources.
- inactive, on 11/14/2007, -5/+7are you kidding me?
- shlemielo, on 11/14/2007, -0/+2Heh. I did the same thing. Probably because "air", "controller", and "hero" all go pretty well with "guitar".
- ferrariman60, on 11/14/2007, -1/+3Isn't this that extremist pro-Putin group I heard about a while back that basically brainwashes teens into supporting Putin? The name sounds quite familiar. In any case, not normal people.
- playeren, on 11/15/2007, -0/+1It isn't fair to compare Peter Nielsen to a drunk driver. He was working on faulty equipment, in what seems a faulty organisation. The f"#¤%& hardliners in russia still think like old-school gangsters.
If I go kill the russian - will you hail me as hero? - mezura, on 11/15/2007, -0/+1Obviously, you people do not know how it feels when you lose someone because of someone's mistake or something that could have been avoided. The feeling is very different from losing someone due to natural cause. The feeling of revenge is so powerful that in your head, even when you kill this person a hundred times, it is not enough to ease the pain. So all you people commenting about what this guy did is not appropriate unless you are in the same situation as he is.
- neurosport, on 11/14/2007, -0/+1if that nielsen character knew how to speak russian maybe he would still be alive
anybody think there could be a misunderstanding there between two people who cant's peak each other's languages ? - trovoltex, on 11/14/2007, -0/+1Noone mentioned here, that Kaloev is North Ossetian from Caucasus where vendetta is still present, but rare.
- playeren, on 11/15/2007, -0/+1Jeez... And we know that from the only witness of the crime - the defendant himself.. How can you know what happend?
- trovoltex, on 11/14/2007, -0/+1Why only 15000? Why not 15 000 000? AFAIK there were 6000 dead, also very unclear documents. Also it is unclear was it Russian Army who killed, or German army. Really unclear.
Ruined your country? A Poland, I assume? Churchill words explains a lot to people which are not familiar with history. A hyena. You should know better the history about Poland, about your governments. Try also to find out what Poland wes doing 37-39, before the German occupation (that time also USSR took back old Russian Empire territory which Poland gained 20 years ago of that time).
Anti-semite? Ahh say say, nice to hear THAT from Poland! Must be a compliment? - Pixelante, on 11/14/2007, -0/+1You people don't seem to know all the facts. This guy didn't kill the air controller out of a fit of rage: he actually hired a private investigator in order to obtain his name and address, and then went and murdered him. It was premeditated.
However, Swiss law is a joke: the maximum you can get there for ANY crime is 15 years, and you would need to detonate a nuke on Bern in order to get that sentence. This type got 3 years for murder in the 1st degree, and just these days a lawyer got 4 years for embezzlement. Go figure. - klparrot, on 11/14/2007, -0/+1True, the ATC shouldn't have allowed the situation to get to the point where TCAS (traffic alert and collision avoidance system) got involved, but once that happened, yes, the collision is ultimately the pilot's fault. When the TCAS tells the pilot to do something, they are supposed to trust the TCAS, no matter what air traffic control is telling them to do. TCAS communication between the two planes determines a strategy for each plane that will avoid the collision, but for the overall collision avoidance plan to work, both pilots must follow it. That's why protocol says TCAS overrides ATC.
- playeren, on 11/15/2007, -0/+1Talk about people who shouldn't comment.!
Listen, you're not even able to understand that MURDER is never acceptable - let alone "appropriate" as you write. My compassion for the russians loss dissappeares when he goes out and murders an innocent human - you obviously think is understandable. What about Mr. Nielsens family - they lost a loved one to a knife stabbing. Should they go assasinate the russian guy? -
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