What is Digg?334 Comments
- manzplan, on 11/14/2008, -4/+98the threat of Hell should not be the reason people decide to be good or not..
- brb38, on 11/14/2008, -2/+60I just love how christians get so defensive about a holiday they stole from pagans...
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -2/+59FTA: "How do we define 'good' if we don't believe in God? God in his word, the Bible, tells us what's good and bad and right and wrong. If we are each ourselves defining what's good, it's going to be a crazy world."
I want to cry every time I read things like that. How can we have lived through the Renaissance and the Enlightenment but still have so many people hopelessly mired back in the Middle Ages? Why do I need someone to TELL me that I should be nice to others, that killing is wrong, that humans need to work as a group if we are to survive? People tell me that I'm a pessimist and a cynic, but even *I* am not cynical enough to believe that, without proper guidance from On High, all people will become vicious, murderous beasts. How the hell do you live like that? And what the hell kind of soul do you have, that when you look into the eyes of another human, all you see is barely-restrained barbarism looking back at you? - volvis, on 11/14/2008, -2/+43To quote, I was dead millions of years before I was born, and I felt no inconvenience from it. :)
- kezia1, on 11/14/2008, -1/+34As someone who takes pride on being a good person soley to be a good person, I am thrilled that this is going around. Morality is not tied to religion. Morality predates religion. And it will be there long after.
- WoundedCow, on 11/14/2008, -6/+38As a man of the cloth and a devout believer in God, this does nothing to change my beliefs, but if people want to advocate being "good" I say have at it. If people want to question the existence of God, I say, that's between you and yourself. Why make a fuss out of it? Will anyone really change their beliefs because of what some sign says? To me, its a non-story and a non-event.
- subterfuge, on 11/14/2008, -2/+34the same is true for theists. the difference is that athiests wouldn't disagree.
- inactive, on 11/14/2008, -2/+29Pagans have been celebrating winter and summer solstice for thousands of years, christians took that over and planted the 'birth' of their imaginary savior on that date instead.
Tricky little buggers aren't they? - Hetman, on 11/14/2008, -3/+30You are funny. This is because you do not believe that logical thought can lead to moral behavior. Which is about as far as from the truth as possible. Humans with their logic are able to create a moral authority. For examples we can look to Kant's and utilitarianism. Your morality is based on an approximately 2000 year book. Before that it was based on the old testament. Can you please tell me why your idea's are better than that of the old testament?It is because some average dewd jesus came along/ Some guy came along and said so. That does not mean it is the word of god. It means that humans are making strives and treating everyone equal. I know you would not like to treat everyone equal but that is fine. In the end truth conquers all illusions. You are worshipping a false idol. You are not worshiping another guy with great idea's who was not God. Which is fine but please look for newer philosophys.
- tokabowla, on 11/14/2008, -3/+27Ah, I see.
Bus ad in one city = 2000 years of "Worship Jesus or we'll KILL YOU!" - Fordi, on 11/14/2008, -1/+25Coffin? Why on earth would a rational person insist upon preservation of a dead body?
Burn me to ash once I'm dead, and compost the ash if you really need to do something with it. - subterfuge, on 11/14/2008, -1/+24"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property."
-The Bible, Exodus 21:20-21
And this is the source of your moral framework? - sodade, on 11/14/2008, -2/+23You know, if christians were all about the supposed core tenants of Jesus' teachings (like turn the other cheek, prince o' peace, do unto others, take care of the sick and poor, don't kill people, etc...) then I'd be all for their insidious influence on just about every aspect of american life. Instead, mindless morons get all lathered up and drooling about "theyre killin BABAIES" so they vote for criminal thugs who murder innocent brown people.
You ***** deserve every bit of anti-christian backlash that's coming. If your god was real, he would agree and call you hypocrites. - 47f0, on 11/14/2008, -1/+20Uhmmm - except Christians didn't give us Chrismas - they simply appropriated a much earlier Winter Solstice holiday - much as they appropriated Easter.
Makes it easier to sell the con job to the rubes if you let them keep their old holidays. - Timpala, on 11/13/2008, -22/+40An atheist in their coffin. All dressed up and no place to go.
- 47f0, on 11/14/2008, -0/+18gnosticism refers to your level of knowledge. Theism refers to your belief in a deity. Two related, but different things. I'm 100% atheist, and about 99.999% agnostic - I have no religion, and I'm fairly sure that there is no deity.
The 0.001% is simply because it's very difficult to scientifically disprove things - I have about the same level of agnosticism regarding dragons, unicorns, and leprechauns. I doubt them, but complete disproof is not easy, nor, I suspect, worth my time. - emailowndme, on 11/14/2008, -0/+18this was in response to an earlier ad campaign which basically told atheists they were going to hell from the sides of buses. Some atheist put together a donation box for a joke, and got a substantial amount of money in return, so he decided to rent buses too.
I read all this about a month ago when this story first hit the front page, no crap the one that's on the front page now, is a repost of the one posted at least a month ago now... - Battlecry, on 11/14/2008, -1/+19Actually, the reason is a combination of the distance from the sun, the wobble of the earth's axis, and your location on the globe :)
- Battlecry, on 11/14/2008, -0/+16That's a pretty rational point of view, good on you.
Also, looking at some of your previous comments, you don't seem like any 'man of the cloth' I've ever met. You've been married twice, divorced, and have kids. Do you realize that that term implies you're a clergyman? - jake86, on 11/14/2008, -2/+17The war on Chrismahanakwanzka has begun again.
'Tis the Season.
Now pass the eggnog! - kaskarn, on 11/14/2008, -0/+15I'll shut my hole the second you and the christian communities shut theirs. If I strongly disagree with a concept that is shoved down the throat of every citizen in this country, you bet I will mock, criticize and ridicule as much as I can.
- 47f0, on 11/14/2008, -0/+15Oh really, x2611? Please point out some of the common holiday images from, say, Easter and Christmas in your big ol' book of myths. Evergreens? The lights? Burning Yule logs? The word Yule? Gifts? Rabbits laying eggs? All pre-Christian. All stolen by Christians.
Oh, and we're not mocking you - we're pushing back because you mock us when you want to rewrite the Constitution to look like Leviticus and teach our kids your crap mythology as if it were science, all while using our tax dollars to do it. - Defiant001, on 11/14/2008, -2/+17"And what the hell kind of soul do you have, that when you look into the eyes of another human, all you see is barely-restrained barbarism looking back at you?"
A brainwashed one. Thanks to religions having their own school boards (make sure you put the idea in the kids head when they are at a vulnerable age and will believe anything an adult tells them, then reinforce it over the years) and parents ramming the stuff down the poor kids throats at an early age too. - brb38, on 11/14/2008, -0/+15That's the whole purpose of hell. It's where sinners go. Ergo it is being held over the heads of those who believe in it.
- korea, on 11/14/2008, -2/+17Signs on the bus totally dictate my behavior.
- drinkthepill, on 11/14/2008, -0/+13Cut the Atheist some slack. They just tend to get annoyed when Christians try to get the Goverment to pass laws that take rights away from women, and make homosexuals second class citizens, all based on what they believe is the will of a magical man in the sky.
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -1/+14Jimmy's a well-known troll. Leave it alone. You can tell him that the Bible was written by humans, revised at the Council of Nicea (also by humans), translated into English (humans again, who knew?) and then edited under the auspices of King James (yet another human) - it won't make a difference. If he doesn't grok it yet, he never will.
- Lewie, on 11/14/2008, -1/+14Humans have always made up the standards of good and evil. Just because you think God wrote the book doesn't mean it's true. And even that changes with the wind. Whites weren't allowed to marry blacks because it was immoral, and many people used scripture to back it up. It is the bible that claims absoluteness, but changes meaning to fit one's mood. People cite the bible for capitalism (God helps those who help themselves), and communism (What you do unto the least of these you do unto me). Do I take an eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek? THIS is illogical and dangerous.
Why should I do what a book tells me to do? Because the Pope said so? Does that pope have any moral authority over me?
If God exists, maybe he should come down and tell us directly what his rules are, because for the last few thousand years, it has been the interpreters of the bible that have been making those calls, and so the THEIST argument falls apart on the basis of its own lack of proof of authority. - NWVG, on 11/14/2008, -1/+14Actually it wasn't the Christians that originally created the holiday that would eventually become the consumer Christmas we now have: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Dies_Natali ...
- jeremyduffy, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12Does belief in Santa Clause lead to persecution, pain, death, and arrogance?
- talonstriker, on 11/14/2008, -0/+11As an athiest/agnostic, I couldn't care less whether god exists are not. Just don't try to impose your morals on those who don't share your morals through laws (gay marriage, etc.).
- tamman2000, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12I think that there are a lot of people out there who don't realize that it is OK to not believe in god. I thought there was something wrong with me because the whole religion thing seemed silly to me my whole life. As a child in the midwest 20 years ago some of your peers would beat you if you said that you weren't sure there was a god (it happened to me once).
I turned out alright, but I worry about people who have parents that are less open minded than mine are. My parents never tried to force me to believe, they could tell I wasn't wired that way. But I still felt pressure to believe from the rest of the town that I lived in.
My main hope for this ad campaign is not for more people to become atheist/agnostic, but for people to talk about it and realize that it is OK to be one. Realize that godless people can be good people, and people should be judged by what they do, not what they believe. - Fordi, on 11/14/2008, -0/+11"Make nooooooooooo mistake about it...........Atheist extremists, the activists that want to remove God from everything, they DO believe in God, they just don’t like God."
Actually, the beef has to do with using your God in my politics. It's not like chocolate and peanut butter; they aren't delicious together. - Akira71, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12Being good for goodness sake is always preferred. I don't care what religion you are. Just do it because you should.
I do find it a bit interesting that the non-religion Humanism is pushing their non-religious ideas even though I agree with them. - 47f0, on 11/14/2008, -0/+11Not really - we believe in the Christian Taliban that wants to rewrite the Constitution to resemble Leviticus, and infect our kids minds with their stupid and immoral mythology.
So, yep, if you push us, you're gonna get pushed back. Sorry, but you don't get to hijack the country that gave you freedom of religion just so you can take that same freedom away from everyone you disagree with. - inactive, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12nice circular ***** logic, no wonder your head is up your ass. isn't it odd that anti-Xtians often know far more about Xtianity than those who call themselves "Christians"? FACT: Xtianity is descended from Paul, not Jesus, and has no more in common with the teachings of the actual man (or men, there were at least two men whose stories were converged to make these myths) than the ***** from the Mormons. Dec 25th was a feast day for 2,000 years before your fairy tales first puked up.
- brb38, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12you poor, poor little man. Even as an atheist you can still partake in holiday festivities. It's pretty much a non-religious capitalist holiday anyway.
- Valmorian, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12"You might say that you inherently feel this way, and I would say that you feel that way because you were raised in a mostly judeo-christian society and our nation's morals are heavily influenced by that particular philosophy."
That must explain why cooperation, mutual aid and charity is commonly witnessed across non-christian cultures and even into the animal kingdom (many animal species have altruistic behaviours as well). Oh, no, wait, it doesn't. - malex, on 11/14/2008, -0/+10Your first example only makes sense if you believe that organized religion has no more influence on the rules and functions of our society than the belief in Santa Claus. This is demonstratively false if you think about even briefly. (Example: a political candidate is not at a crippling disadvantage if they admit to not believing in Santa.)
Your second example makes no sense at all. Global climate change is an empirical event that can be studied with the scientific method. Examining religious beliefs though hard scientific logic is exactly what Atheism advocates.
You also seem to think that Atheism's intention is to "silence" religious belief, or "eradicate" it from public life. As far as I understand it, it merely seeks to protect the religious freedoms insured by the First Amendment, meaning that all people have Freedom of Conscience, and that no one religion has social dominance over the others, or those without religious beliefs.
I suggest you reexamine the arguments with an open mind. - zimz, on 11/14/2008, -1/+12Your argument is nonsensical, and you seem really scatterbrained. It scares me that you think the only reason one should behave in a humane way is out of fear of some sort of divine retribution. I don't want you or anyone like you around me when you suddenly lose faith.
- malex, on 11/14/2008, -0/+11Wut? Dude, I don't know where you live, but here in America there are religious billboards all over the place.
- jeremyduffy, on 11/14/2008, -0/+11Because Christmas can be (and often is) a non-religious holiday. The whole Santa and gift giving thing is completely non-denominational. That's why even some Jews will celebrate the Christmas "holiday"
- Greengoo, on 11/14/2008, -2/+13I'm an atheist, but I'll be either buried or cremated with a ceremony anyway, just to ease the unpleasantness on my friends and family, many of whom are religious. I mean, I couldn't care less, but I would like to help them out.
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -0/+11An old quote, but a good one:
"Atheism is a religion in the same way that NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." - scottnash, on 11/14/2008, -1/+12No, it just takes logic.
- tokabowla, on 11/14/2008, -0/+9Ah, I see.
An ad on the side of some buses in one city suggesting to be good = ERADICATING GOD FROM THE PUBLIC SQUARE!!!!!
Wow, that was easy! Anyone got a magic marker & some posterboard?
I need to ERADICATE some god around my town. - DragoonWraith, on 11/14/2008, -1/+11Of course, human fallibility means that there is no absolute authority in human morality - but the very recognition of that fact is the reason I'd prefer an atheist in charge over any theist. Anyone who believes they are absolutely right is far more dangerous than anyone who recognizes the possibility of being wrong.
- inactive, on 11/14/2008, -0/+10Nah... it's just a convenient time to appreciate the people around you and show it with gifts.
also this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Pre-Christi ...
Alot of the customs aren't Christian at all , thank Saturn for Christmas Gift giving! - Obermeister, on 11/14/2008, -0/+10Some people may want to live as hermits, or go around victimizing people for their own benefit. But non-crazy people come together to form societies based on some cooperation, and value things like kindness and trustworthiness. There are moral dilemmas of course, and the details can get tricky, but I think for the most part it is easy to overthink this. No one wants to live in a society filled with @ssholes. You don't need a god to figure that out. Just a little bit of critical thinking.
I understand some people have need for an authority to tell them what's right and wrong. Of course, since "god" doesn't speak to us directly, and his "book" can be interpreted many ways, you need other people to act the authority. I've noticed that a lot of those edicts, if you think about them, seem kind of @sshole-ish. Of course, that's why this really chafes the authority, the last thing you want is people asking questions, because then they might start questioning your authority too. - TheMoniker, on 11/14/2008, -1/+11Well, there are a few issues here. The first is that it's hard to see that something is good merely because God says it is. Consider the god of the old testament: he is petty, wrathful, homophobic bigot--a moral and social cripple who advocates such things as stoning children to death for talking back to their parents and killing adults for adultery, cursing and being homosexual. He also has a particular disdain for mixed cloths and shellfish. Recall that these are your god's direct orders, you can't simply get off the hook by saying that Jesus gave you a new covenant: the fact remains that at one point, you have to, by your view, consider that it was morally good to do such things kill children for talking back to their parents--and that it was morally wrong to mix cloths and eat clams. Nor will it do any good for you to claim that these were better than the other laws floating around at the time: the moral good isn't simply the lesser of two evils between barbarous bronze/iron age tribesman--that would be pitiful. What's more, it boils down at base to being little more than a celestial dictatorship. It's high time that we realized that crimes without victims are like debts without creditors, they simply do not exist.
The second issue is that you fail to note that there are many secular ethical alternatives, most of which do not involve obvious absurdities like considering that it was at one time good to consider shellfish to be abominations and stone children to death. -
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