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- Broelke4, on 10/11/2007, -25/+281This should happen more often.
- TrentTheThief, on 10/11/2007, -12/+239I think Germans worry about cults.
- russianmobster, on 10/11/2007, -13/+194Cruise got pwnd. : )
- rauz, on 10/11/2007, -14/+150This is fantastic, let's hope this spreads to the rest of the civilized world. And the US.
- generalloy, on 10/11/2007, -8/+134This is a good thing. Scientology is classified as a business/cult in Germany, NOT A RELIGION.
Additionally Tom Cruise isn't a citizen of Germany AFAIK, so they can refuse to let him in whenever they want. This just happens to be a good reason ;) - kevinHaney, on 10/11/2007, -11/+108Praise Xenu!!
- SgtAl, on 10/11/2007, -7/+87Someone should have banned the filming of John Travolta in Hairspray.
- diggeridooo, on 10/11/2007, -4/+77For those who don't know who Xenu is: Scientologists believe in Xenu, a guy who brought people to earth and exploded H-bombs! It's ridiculous. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/ Scientology even sued people for publicizing the Xenu story. http://www.scientology-lies.com/faq/teachings/aliens.html
- agrabob, on 10/11/2007, -2/+66To backup lty83:
'Defence Ministry spokesman Harald Kammerbauer said the film makers "will not be allowed to film at German military sites if Count Stauffenberg is played by Tom Cruise, who has publicly professed to being a member of the Scientology cult".'
I wish our government called Scientology a cult here in the US. - luftrofl, on 10/11/2007, -8/+69Scientology isn't a religion, jackass. It's a scifi convention gone wrong in almost every way imaginable.
- decipherd, on 10/11/2007, -2/+59They do seem to take Scientology a lot more seriously than other countries,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Scientology_warning_leaflet.jpg - CptCancer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+59You know you can type *****, right? Watch this,"***** *****, ***** *****".
- iamnos, on 10/11/2007, -4/+59They specifically say that its his belief in Scientology, which Germany does not recognize as a religion, that is the reason they are denying filming rights.
- myeyesarered, on 10/11/2007, -2/+48I'm Swiss and I've been to almost every European country and the U.S. for many times. I can say from what I have experienced, that Germany is one most liberal countries I have visited so far. Racist believs are taboo in Germany because of it's history. Of course - also Germany has some problems with xenophobia (the right wing party NPD gets some vots sometimes in poorer regions of Germany) but compared to other countries these problems a very small.
If you are saying that they banned tom cruise because the movie is about the Nazis and Germany doesn't want their Nazi-history to be shown in Movies, Tv etc. you are also not correct: We receive German broadcast stations in Switzerland and there are really a lot of documentations of Nazi-Crims in German Television.
They banned him, because Scientology tricks people in social dependency and tries to steal your money. They also risk the heath of their members with strange "medical" methods (->look up: touch-assist, fever-assist). - Beaver6813, on 10/11/2007, -6/+52To be honest the reason why is because Scientology denies key facts about what happened in the war, the holocaust etc. Germany doesn't want the facts to be distorted any more than needed, they've faced up to what happened and want to put it behind them and now if Cruise is going to be in a lead role he might try and influence some of the film... well thats the only reason i can think of apart from hes "Just a scientologist"
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+46in germany, we like to separate church and state. scientology is not recognized as religion, it is officially a cult. tom cruise has no intentions of ever shutting up about scientology, so why should he be let in?
should we allow every religious fanatic in our country to promote propaganda? when we let a fanatic like hitler in, people complained, if we ban religions (unlike the USA, racist groups of all kinds are officially against the law) we are called racists...
make up your minds - drlog, on 10/11/2007, -1/+41@iTorrey
Scientology is a cult, not a religion. - ACrazyGerman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+37With damn good reason.
- Godlesswanderer, on 10/11/2007, -5/+40Religion? I think you misspelled cult.
- FortyCaliber, on 10/11/2007, -9/+43"... You know, the [Germans] made [scientologists] wear little pieces of flair!"
- Philluminati, on 10/11/2007, -1/+34Ahh... the religion of the pyramid selling scheme.
- Jok3r, on 10/11/2007, -5/+38Nice to know the Scientologists are signing up just to post comments.
- dtietze1, on 10/11/2007, -3/+33We have. Definitely. It's just that Scientology has nothing to do with "religious beliefs".
I applaud the Bundeswehr's stance on this. Casting Tom Cruise for this part is a total farce. - DirtySnachez, on 10/11/2007, -3/+32..and the US. That made my day =)
- Broelke4, on 10/11/2007, -4/+32Agreed, let them think as they wish, but when they manipulate others for their own gains a line must be drawn.
- Space_Balls, on 10/11/2007, -3/+29They are not barring the film from being Taped. They are just not letting them into German Military Installations. I would equate that with the US Military not supporting movies that portray things like Area 51 (as for example in Independence Day). Also, as states elsewhere. Scientology is not a recognized Religion in Germany, and its dibious recruiting practices have been televised more then once.
And on another note, Tom Cruise is the last person I want to portray someone as heroic as General von Stauffenberg. - dukrous, on 10/11/2007, -3/+27Technically, every religion started as a cult Scientology started as a scam and continues to be one.
- pintomp3, on 10/11/2007, -7/+31how do you define a religion? how do you define a cult? because it extorts money from it's followers? the incredibility of it's beliefs? because of it's age? i'm not sticking up for scientology here, i'm against organized religion in general. but what makes the church of scientology so different than the catholic church or televangelism? is xenu more far fetched than a man/god who is his own father?
- riven, on 10/11/2007, -3/+26Are you saying that you really consider Scientology to be a legit religion?
- saintdesy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+20I have no problem with people believing in the ideas behind Scientology (though I do find them silly in many ways). My problem is with the Church of Scientology and all the crap they do like ruining the lives of people who speak against them, charging hundreds of thousands of dollars for their 'services', running creepy organizations which employ billion year contracts, and making people cut off their family members if they leave the cult.
- andy3109, on 10/11/2007, -4/+21"Berlin says it masquerades as a religion to make money..."
Church anyone? My girlfriend (an auditor) will tell you that no business is more crooked than a church. - philippbock, on 10/11/2007, -0/+17You know what? I’m starting to feel a bit proud about being German.
- fantasticFlan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17Sure, but Tom Cruise is a prominent member of the Church of Scientology, and organization (important distinction here) with a long history crimes.
- WootZoot, on 10/11/2007, -4/+19Religion: A bunch of lies
Cult: A bunch of lies that make people pay out their ass. - crichton101, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16Scientology is just a scam job, and not a religion. and Germany has learned a great many things about letting some idealogical group with harmful ideas gain any sort of foot hold in their country and they never want it to happen again.
- dtietze1, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17Huh? You're WAY off base here.
There are TONS of movies, TV series, books, etc. about WWII, Nazis, etc. There was even a (supposedly not very funny) comedy about Hitler a couple of months ago (with Hitler portrayed by Helge Schneider, a famous German comedian/musician/musical comedian). See http://imdb.com/title/tt0780568/
There was a muti-part TV series about Albert Speer, in which the Stauffenberg plot was also covered (if I remember correctly).
So this has NOTHING to do with the subject matter of the movie -- apart from the fact that maybe we don't want Stauffenberg's heroic effort cheapened by having Tom Cruise act in a movie about it. - Beaver6813, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13They would have done the entire world a favour.
- CraigCarlyle, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15The LAST person I'd like to see in a movie about the July 20th plot would be Tom Cruise.
Hopefully they won't resort to big actors, and make it somewhat accurate. Like Der Untergang. - crichton101, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13There is a fundamental problem with the suggestion that we should just let scientologists have their beliefs and let them do what ever they want. I would normally agree that people should be allowed to believe in whatever they want to believe in. But when those same people actively insert themselves into other peoples lives, and force their beliefs upon others(which is what brain washing really is when reduced to it's simplest explaination), and tear families apart if they do not agree with said beliefs, and actively seek to discredit and damage the careers of what ever critics it may have, it stops being just a simple belief structure and becomes something rather dangerous. Germany learned that first hand when the Nazi party took power with murderous zeal. And what they were willing to do to their "critics" isn't that far from what Scientologists are willing to do to theirs.
The basic point it, any group that is unharmful to those around it, no matter the others stance towards them, is a perfectly group and has every right to exist. But the group that is harmful to those around it does not have any right to exist. - shrewduser, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16well i wouldn't let cult members into my living room, can't see how germany doesn't have the right here...
- MeneerR, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13Well, I would actually. In the 'free' world, freedom should be the religion. You may freely add any other religion and belief, but as soon as it conflicts we're gonna have a problem.
The problem with scientology is not that it is a religion, but that its a cult. It intentionally discriminates and enforces it power over its followers. The pope can say whatever he wants. But a Catholic person can choose to listen or not. Whereas scientology actually controls the persons life. They control at least their social life, but more often than not, also their financial life. If you want to leave scientology, you will loose all your money and all your friends.
In the end, its not like religions are now. Its like what they used to be. Means of power and oppression. You fantasize some story. You convice some dumb people. You extort money. You gain power.
Scientology is dangerous, because it harms the seperation between religion and state. Between religion and society.
The pope does not tell you to not do bussniss with other religions. The pope does not tell you to not be friends with people with different faith. The pope does not tell you to not put your kids in school with people with different beliefs.
That is why scientology is dangerous. It is not a belief. Its a militant organization. - arnoldrimmer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Me too
- spudnic, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13Judaism doesn't ask for loads of your money, engage is what is practically stalking, harass ex members, and encourage you to break of contact with your family.
- isseki, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Scientologists believe that psychiatrists are the cause for the holocaust. Germany is a country that (understandably) is very strict on "alternative" interpretations of war history, it's a country where holocaust denial is flat-out forbidden by law (as it is in several other european countries). In some way I can understand that Germany is not too keen on its war history being (mis?)used by a prominent proponent of an organization that has a distorted view of history.
- vudicarus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Obviously good debatable questions. On a practical note, I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. And let that line be Scientology.
- diggitizer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11Notice a lot of similar comments 'supporting' scientology (not saying they agree with it, but supporting the idea of it as 'free'):
scientology had a fight to get religious status, fight by paying people and planning to infiltrate the IRS, it is a con, they wanted to stop paying taxes and keep the government from spying. This crime syndicate needs to be stopped. Germany is an excellent country in the fact that it MAKES SENSE.
You cannot take the Mafia, put a cross on their logo, and then call it a religion to give it some freedoms. Why do the scientologist use a cross in their logo? Misleading, that is why, to con people.
In the US they either need to revoke scientology's 'religion' status, or remove all legal statuses of any religion, and descend on the scientology cult. Why? We all suffer when you have a criminal organization with so much power having judges and lawmakers in their pockets.
Tom is harming lots of people by condoning something THAT IS HARMFUL.
Since when did freedoms preclude the freedom for us to criminalize something, s'tology is criminal. - schlurp, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9yes, but strangely enough they don't consider filming at their military sites as speech
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11You don't know the history of pwnd, Cruise does.
- grumpyrain, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9I am confused here. I don't think much for Cruise or Scientology, and can understand why Germany doesn't recognise Scientology as a religion but rather a money making front. But what has Tom's personal religious convictions got to do with the movie?
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