What is Digg?194 Comments
- zlintux, on 10/11/2007, -2/+61People need to learn their rights with this thing, including, but not limited to:
- You have the right to request to only be contacted by US mail
- You have the right to privacy, and the collectors may not inform anyone of your situation (however, talking to a spouse could potentially be argued to not violate your privacy)
- Defaulting on a contract or breaking a contract is purely a civil matter, and not a criminal one. As long as you didn't willingly defraud anyone, you cannot be imprisoned.
I strongly encourage anyone being contacted by debt collectors to demand they only be contacted by mail. Prior to making this demand, get the name of the collection company, their address, and the name (or employee id) of the person with whom they are talking -- they are required by law to provide it (they key is to keep interrupting them and not let them talk).
If they are violating your rights, report them. You may even have an avenue through small claims court for damages which could help out with your debt.
See http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fdc.shtm for more information (and how to file a complaint against a debt collection company). - M4tt3r, on 10/11/2007, -3/+56"Now how are they going to collect?"
By checking her body for loot. How else.
/serious sarcasm - pimpinainteasy, on 10/11/2007, -5/+38Now how are they going to collect?
- Tabou, on 10/11/2007, -7/+35They'll collect by robbing the populace $39 at a time. You know that bogus fee you incur every time they receive your payment 1 day late, or you happen to go a dollar over the limit, etc...
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+26The difference between a slave and a debtor is that a slave does not voluntarily enslave himself, so that he can afford petty consumer items and 'exotic cats', while equating the availability of credit with a corresponding increase in actual wealth.
If anyone here takes the time to actually read the summary of the facts as found by the magistrate, I am sure that there will be less sympathy for the woman. It is fair to say that her part in this was very substantial, and her history is by no means of probity. - cracked22, on 10/11/2007, -2/+21I read the actual court articles - what a sad story.
- MaxPayne3476, on 10/11/2007, -7/+25For the post above me,
The only way it can go to the next of kin is if the loan or credit card was shared or co-signed by the next of kin. They can't just load debt onto another human being.
@fly1m1
Agreed. People just need to learn some ***** responsibility. I'll sum it up in a lil somethin somethin - "Credit cards are not a ***** loan. They are not "free money". They are a convenient and protected way to carry around cash without ACTUALLY having to carry around cash and great for emergencies, say, if your car runs out of gas and your cashless. If you don't have the money now - DONT ***** USE IT. and keep ***** TRACK OF WHAT YOU SPEND AND ALL RECEIPTS!"
Violla, that's it. People who get into debt for spending too much money that they didn't have get no sympathy from me. This lady is no exception. - ShrimpCrackers, on 10/11/2007, -4/+21Not to mention, once you're late with a payment, some cards will change your APR etc, or alter your limit. Its pretty pesky what they can do for being late. They don't teach kids how credit cards are more like a loan. I actually think maybe they should give kids limited credit cards so they can get better experience spending, and give them hefty fines like "well you've spent all your lunch credits so no lunch for today".
I've experienced debt collectors last month when they somehow thought I was a Roshanda Williams and they kept calling all hours of the day. I kept telling them that I was not Roshanda and heck I was Asian; they had the wrong number. They insisted on calling anyway, disturbing my sleep and holding my phone line hostage and giving me threats of all sorts of legal action and so forth. I got really angry and all of a sudden the phone calls stopped; I guess they finally believed me. I don't want to imagine what it may be like having all year of that. - Kronos6948, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15Having been in debt and also worked for a collection agency, I've seen both sides of the coin.
There are credit card companies that are predatory. They seek out people with borderline credit, promise them the world, and in the fine print, screw them. First Premier is one of those companies. They offer a credit card to people with the worst credit, tell them that they get a $300 credit limit on the card, but if you read the fine print (which reads like legal papers), once you do the math, after you get the card you're already close to $200 in the hole in fees just for opening the card.
Now, having worked for 2 collection agencies (I ended up quitting because the job was making me sick to my stomach-I left due to stress), there are some underhanded tactics that debt collectors use to get info. We called neighbors, acting as friends, saying we couldn't get a hold of the debtor...that I maybe their phone was out. We asked the neighbors to go nextdoor and see if they were home and see if we could talk to them. Some places have collectors who illegally impersonate attorneys and employees of attorney's offices to threaten lawsuits. We were trained to badger people into giving money. One thing to remember, debt collectors pay scale is incentive based. You get a low base salary, with bonuses for making your goal. If you don't make your goal for 2 months or more, you're fired. So, not only are you not going to get a lot of money, but you're in danger of losing your job. Sometimes you get a bad lot of debtors that aren't going to pay, and you have to continuously work those accounts, whether you've already argued with the debtors or not.
Everyone should find the FDCPA online and read it. Understand your rights. And, make sure you find out what your local rights are, because there are some laws that are different locally that all debt collection agencies must follow. - pintomp3, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17i agree that it's pathetic how much debt the average consumer is carrying. that's part of our consumer culture. after 9/11, bush said to go shopping. however, things like medical emergencies can't be helped. to make things worse, bankruptcy laws were recently rewritten to make it harder for consumers to declare bankruptcy. it doesn't help that health insurance companies do their best to avoid paying out on claims. the debt-carrying consumer culture is fostered to benefit the banking industry.
- Wacer, on 10/11/2007, -5/+19Everybody should tear up their credit cards as this is the only way to make CC companies straighten their act out.
- rosefu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12"I guess this has to be said again: DON'T BUY STUFF YOU CAN'T AFFORD."
Including medical treatment, I suppose.
One of the most common sources of overwhelming consumer debt: soaring medical bills.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14470912/site/newsweek/ - Elliuotatar, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12About "Roshanda"...
I have had debt collectors calling for a Hernandez. They've never been abusive, but they called so often that I've turned off my ringer and let the answering machine pick it up now. They never leave messages. But I've used *69 to get the number they're calling from, and it turns out that it's not just one debt collection agency that's calling but many. That's why each time you tell one to take you off the list you still get calls. There's something like 30+ such agencies in the country too. I got the names of them by putting in the numbers that called me into google and found pages listing them all. I suppose I could call them all and ask each one to remove me from their list, but that wouldn't stop the fire department and police from calling looking for donations, or this certain christian organization which is nonprofit from doing the same. You can't make them those guys you off their list. So now I just give the really important people my cellphone number, since the telemarketers and bill colelctors and donation seekers can't call that. - xrisnothing, on 10/11/2007, -14/+24This story is *****. Racking up massive amounts of debt is a symptom of mental instability and unhappiness. The woman was bipolar. Her debt and the issues that aided her spending are what drove her to suicide. The debt collectors certainly did not help her, but they can't be blamed. Sorry to bring a dose of reality to the pity party, guys.
- agimat, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12
Don't spend more than you earn.
/still scrapping the bottom of the barrel but no credit card debts - joklem, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Some people do it because they have to.
Here's a good example of how you get in extreme debt.
I'm Canadian. I was in the military for 4 years, went through basic training and other specific training just fine. Then a little problem came up: a slipped disc. Now, obviously, these are known to be timed bombs -- in other words to not be a on-the-spot thing, but my doctor told me this one wasn't from a previous accident, and it did in fact happen on the spot (I had a full medical check from that same doctor before joining the CF). I was on medical leave for 7 months with pay and expenses for physiotherapy (free healthcare only supports a big fraction of the price, but if you want to be fit in the time frame I wanted, you have to go the private way, which is $$). Anyway, some day an officer came to me, and asked me to go see their "specialists", who basically claimed the problem was there before I joined the CF. My family doctor didn't want to go against them, and I was too broke for legal fees. I now owe the state a 5 digit figure.
I'm still under employment, so I'm immune from debt collection for the time I'm there, but once I get out, I'll have to pay em or declare bankruptcy. - helinism, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12I think its a tragedy brought on by a number of things. However, that doesn't excuse the company of their behaviour. Especially as they were made aware of her mental state and so knew she was vulnerable prior to their threats of immediate jailing and so on... Its well worth reading the pdf of the court docs as it contains much more information.
- Avalontor, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13people should read up on the symptoms of Bipolar disorder, it explains a lot in this case.
- prelelat, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12Well if you think about it, yeah go pay your bills. On the other hand why is it that when someone dies and it’s talked about seriously on digg that everyone says, "Pay your bills", "I'm glad they died". This seems to be ***** obvious does it not? The question isn't that she should have paid her bills, the question is, is the collection agency using moral practices when collecting. One of the posts stated he was getting calls all day from the collection agencies. This doesn't seem to be a very proper way to do things. Your pushing someone’s buttons by having 30 people call them in a day. You could phone them once a day for a month and it would be as traumatizing as what some people go through with a collection agency.
This doesn't just happen with people and credit cards either I know a friend who thought when he cancelled his satellite bill had cleared anything up. He even talked to them on the phone and they said it was clear, yet he received a collection agency call. I can't remember if he took it to court or ended up paying it, he was considering both but it was only like 20 bucks.
The story is sad, why not show some ***** compassion, and stop stating the obvious. - dakboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Once you tell them you're not who they say you are (assuming you're right), they HAVE to stop. You let them go too long. One call is an honest mistake, the second time make them stop.
- GawtMilk, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13@merm
I could go out on the street and say, "Buy My $50,000,000 Ferrari". If someone came up and bought it from me, but didn't pay up, why would you sympathize with them? Credit cards work very well for people who can pay the debts. Much like Ferrari's work well for some people. If you cannot pay off a credit card's interest, DON'T USE ONE!
"but credit card companies make their living ***** the poor by giving them huge credit lines and attaching impossible APRs to them."
-And credit card companies lose their money when "the poor" don't pay their bills. They explicitly state that this is how they make their money. You don't "fall" for anything. If "the poor" can't pay off their debts, they shouldn't use a credit card. It's not free money.
The woman was bipolar. You know how many bipolar people attempt suicide for trivial reasons? I have a bipolar aunt, it doesn't take credit card debt for her to get depressed. The thing about being bipolar is you could win the lottery and still feel worthless and suicidal. It happens without warning, it's chemicals in the brain not conscious thought that leads to depression, when you're bipolar. - enalios, on 10/11/2007, -17/+25sigh.
dugg, because this story deserves the front page.
I submitted my story, linking to the same site, about an hour before yours though... just sayin'. Really don't mean to whine. - dakboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8The BBB is, in my experience, useless. It's best used when it's a local, small company you're fighting for.
You're getting defrauded & scammed by someone. Maybe someone else got your Macy's card number. But like gasaddict said, you're paying for ***** you didn't buy and the story sounds bogus. If it's legit, why are you bothering with level 1 customer service? Get bumped to a supervisor. Write them letters, instead of calling. You're letting it continue the way you appear to be handling it, and if you're LETTING it happen, well, a fool and his money... - vertinox, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11@mushishi
Can you buy a house without going into debt? (So that you have a place to live)
Can you buy a car without going into debt? (So that you can drive to work to pay your house and car bills)
Yes... This is a credit card issue, but I would argue because of hyper inflation and bad practices of the Federal Reserve we can no longer function normally (at least like our parents or their parents) without going into some sort of debt.
I suppose we could rent an apartment and not own a car, but it is often hard to raise a family or live close enough to a place that has public transportation in order to actually go to work.
The root cause of the problem isn't bad consumer habits (well some people that ring up $20,000 debts on clothing sprees) but when you are paying off student loans, car payments, and housing payments and can barely make it then I suppose the only alternative is to give up having a normal life all together and live like a monk under a bridge somewhere. - insomniac8400, on 10/11/2007, -15/+22I don't get it? People spend money they don't have then blame the loan company for trying to get paid? WTF?
- mal1964, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7"It kills to Discover"
- bkreck, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I really hate to say this.
There has to be a lot of naive high school kids commenting on this story, or It maybe some very rich people for all I know. I just want to know what area you people live in to be able to live without credit cards. I mean I'm doing it now, But I also live in a area the cost of living is fairly low.
But hey who am I to say anything I guess there are a lot of well adjusted people comment on this story That never felt taken advantage of at one time or another. - Portwineboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7This is a very common myth. It is not true. If you make a payment, it must be applied to your debt, however, the debt collector is under no obligation to accept a payment plan.
"Q. Can collectors refuse to give you (or agree to) a reasonable payment plan?
A. There is no law compelling collectors, who own the debt, to agree to any payment plan! Don't believe the myth that collectors, who refuse payments, forfeit their right to collect the debt and that the debt goes away. This is just not true!
Under those circumstances where collectors are working on behalf of a creditor, the collector is obligated to submit all reasonable offers to the creditor. In this case, only the creditor, has the right to refuse your payment offer.
Collectors who own debts can refuse your payment plan (and they usually do). However, collectors who refuse reasonable payment plans run the risk of losing their case should they pursue court action.
This is why it's so important to put payment offers in writing and keep accurate records of all efforts to resolve the issue."
http://fair-debt-collection.com/ODFaq/index.php?p=default&cat=3 - krached, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7To those saying next of kin, that is not true. If the debts exceed the value of the estate, then those creditors just take a loss. In the sense that the debts reduce the potential inheritance, yes the next of kin pay. And some debt, notably student loan debt, is extinguished upon death.
- Fly1m1, on 10/11/2007, -42/+49How about paying your ***** bills.
- Bleeblaow, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9Exactly. As of writing this, the post directly above yours has a reply which says, "I used to work with a guy who went into bankruptcy. A week after it was final guess what he got in the mail? Credit card offers from major companies."
Credit card companies prey on people like drug-pushers. Credit cards and everything they can buy are like an addiction to some people. And for others, like young college students with little real-world experience, it is easy to ***** up on your first credit card.
Credit card companies don't care about their customers who pay their bills on time. That's not how they make their money. That's why they would offer a credit card with a 20k limit to someone who already has a history of filing bankruptcy. Whoever diggs you down for calling them thieves and scam artists is simply being naive. - norman619, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Yeah I doubt that most of the peopel who fall behind on their bills did it intentionally.
- MaxPayne3476, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9"Everybody should tear up their credit cards as this is the only way to make CC companies straighten their act out."
Yes, because there is a big room at Discover HQ where they keep track of people that tear up their credit cards... "Johnson, we've lost another one"
You wanna know how to make CC companies leave you alone... don't get into debt in the first place. - MaxPayne3476, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11"By no means should overspending be excused, but credit card companies make their living ***** the poor by giving them huge credit lines and attaching impossible APRs to them. Responsibility cuts both ways guys, and I'd personally like to see financial institutions using a bit more intelligence and responsibility as well."
Intelligence? What's more intelligent then getting into a business where you profit off of dumb asses who can't keep track of their expenses?
They're just making a profit in a lucrative market. The responsibility lies on you to make the CORRECT CHOICES on what you purchase. A credit card is not a loan. It's not a swipe now -> pay later deal. It's simply this: You don't carry wads of cash around on you. If you don't have the money, then you DON'T PUT IT ON A CREDIT CARD. It's as simple as that. - MaxPayne3476, on 10/11/2007, -4/+10"but credit card companies make their living ***** the poor by giving them huge credit lines and attaching impossible APRs to them.""
Credit card companies and banks do not make their money off of poor people. Poor people don't pay the money back. They make the money off of middle class citizens who wanna live a lavish lifestyle but don't quite have the income to do so. They attach the huge credit lines for the spending because they know they can make it back thanks to the middle class income, yet, attach the high APRs so that they can maximize the profits in as little time as possible.
Viola, it's not some big secret.
If you need a loan, get it through a Credit Union. So suppose a monthly finance plan would ACTUALLY work better for you for an entertainment system, take a LOAN out. Don't put it on your ***** credit card. It's not a ***** loan. - Grouser, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9The woman had serious mental problems and her behavior was self-destructive, even when she was manic.
- Portwineboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I'm not sure why anyone thinks FDCPA doesn't apply in this or any other debt collection. It does. Just because Discover had a subcontractor (what I'm inferring due to lack of hard information in the article) doing the collection doesn't mean anything. The law is the law. I've been in bad debt with poor credit three times in my life. Once due to medical bills, once due to a divorce and once due to just plain being a ***** with my income to debt ratio.
In each case I've been able to deal with the issues, eventually, but I never more than once got a threat, a call at work, harassment, etc. The penalties of ignoring the FDCPA are huge for collection agencies and can lead to the debt being wiped out.
First thing you tell the debt collector. "This call is being recorded". Laws on recording vary by state. Federal law only requires the consent of one party. This site a good resource. http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6People should pay their bills, no doubt about it, but I won't be shedding any tears for the credit card companies. They laugh all the way to the bank every second of every day of every year.
- norman619, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7I agree 100% but there is a problem. The credit card companies can shoulder some of the blame here. I used to work with a guy who went into bankruptcy. A week after it was final guess what he got in the mail? Credit card offers from major companies. He was blown away by that. He decided to call one of these companies and have a talk with them. He informed them that he just finished going through bankruptcy and they actually said "Good that means you don't have any more debt and can start building credit" and then went on to offer him a card with a $20,000 limit! What kind of ***** is that? I was listening as he spoke with them. What they did was the same as offering a Long Island Icedtea to a rocovering alcoholic. These companies are partially to blame when they are willing to do ***** like this. Logic says the woman on the phone should have balked at the news and told him they can not give him ANY kind of credit.
- kidd3ckz, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8you keep spelling ***** wrong.
- LowRentDiggs, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Life throws curveballs and the "just pay your bills" and "don't buy what you can't afford" lines don't always fit. I simultaneously lost my job and was diagnosed with cancer. Does that make me a bad person for not being able to pay my Mastercard bill? The best advice is to not use credit at all unless it's a life or death situation, even if you THINK you can afford it. Tomorrow you may not be able to afford what you can today.
- littlebylittle, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7These piece of ***** excuses for human beings need a book full of laws/regulations shoved up their call centers.
- PeakAction, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7***** slimeball credit card companies and their collection agency toadies deserve to burn in a JET-A tanker truck fire. It would be nice if everyone could live under the mantra, "Don't spend more than you earn," but that just isn't possible for most people in this society, especially if you have to do things like EAT and see a DOCTOR.
The credit card companies to their very best to throw you down a deep dark hole, and I think it's time we as a nation revolt and start making THEM put the lotion in the basket for a change. - amoirae, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5See, the hyper critical on here always have all their bases covered and whenever an emergency strikes they have what they need.
They get their entertainment by criticizing others for not being perfect like they aren't. - sporg, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7I love to see those who obviously have had money their whole lives say " Why dont you just pay it back ". Everyone is not a spolied little ***** like you who can depend on momma and daddies money. There are many circumstances beyond someones control that could make them unable to pay. Like medical problems for instance.
- KelliShaver, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Exactly. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who get themselves into money problems buying luxuries they can't afford, but there are a lot of people who go into debt for reasons beyond their control. I believe medical bills account for something like 80% of all personal debt in this country. I had a near fatal kidney infection a few years ago (that came on without warning or notice, so it was kind of hard to prevent) and suddenly we found ourselves $6800 in debt almost overnight, what with deductibles, co-pays and things insurance wouldn't cover.
- JonLatane, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6@jrocknyc
Yes, because living within walking/biking distance of your job is easy. Especially if you follow your advice about paying rent, which can pretty much double how much you pay each month as compared to taking out a loan on a house. Not to mention going to the store to get food for yourself - that would be impossible. - ShdwNova, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5When first reading the article I was like 90% of everyone commenting, "The lady should have paid her bills" and
"don't buy stuff you can't afford." After having read the decision set down by the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals
(hosted by The Consumerist, linked to from the article) I have 100% sympathy for the deceased and her husband
and I think he does have just cause for action. Everyone who is just blaming the deceased should probably read it.
Here you go ---> http://consumerist.com/assets/resources/2007/06/macdermid-v-disover.pdf - ZZeke, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4(whoops, I cut my post short there)
cont...
when he called back my boss got on and told him if he called there again, he would sue him personally as well as his company if he continued to harrass me at my job. I never heard from that agent again.
I agree with those who say that this woman was obviously unstable, but this is exactly why these collectors really need some ethics training in their jobs. You don't know who your talking to or threatening in this case, and the tactics they used against her are deplorable. Listen, I'm not saying it's right to live beyond your means and then burn the credit company, but I think that some of the responses here on digg are totally callous, and they reflect the same mentality as the collection agents. I would love to see some of these folks lose their jobs or total their "50K Ferrari" (a cheap one, no less, probably not even a 355)...then you'd hear all their sob stories about how ruthless and immoral these collection agents can really be. It's easy to criticise when you have no real financial problems, or if you know you never will. That's really the whole issue here - those who have no financial problems simply do not understand nor do they care to understand what it's like when something bad happens and you can't pay your bills. It took me a long time to get back on track, and I won't be getting another credit card until congress reverses the law they passed back in 2000 or 2001 which says that credit companies can charge you more than 20% interest (I could get better rates from the mob). I get offers all the time - which brings me to one last point: When the credit card agencies stop issuing credit to people who they KNOW can't afford it, like 19 yr-old college students, and when they stop spamming everybody's email and real mailboxes with offer after offer, there won't be a need for ruthless collection tactics anymore. - egrumling, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4So do I, but not because his wife racked up a bunch of debt. But, because his wife was bipolar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder
Not a fun time for the people around someone with bipolar disorder. Meds suddenly stop working, no one knows why. A former GF lost her job, took part time with no insurance, and stopped taking meds (also, she didn't like the way they made her feel, since they suppressed the manic times). She'd go on buying binges (thank god usually at the dollar stores), get a bunch of worthless crap, and really seem like she was high or something. Then comes the crash. I just couldn't take the crashes. Sleep for 2 days straight, cry, yell. Repeat until the next manic phase. Get about a week of normal behavior. And please, no jokes about this being normal for women. It wasn't, and you can't understand until you live through it.
MOST bad cases of bipolar disorder end up committing suicide, it's just too bad that credit agencies pushed her over the edge. As much as I would like to blame the bloodsucking vultures, this time I don't think they should be blamed. The root cause is the mental disorder. -
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