What is Digg?817 Comments
- hokeywebb22, on 12/02/2007, -35/+156This guys intention was not to kill anyone. If he was some crazy guy who was looking to kill someone who would not have called police first. He waited until the last minute to step in. when he did he fired his gun into the air to let the robbers know to stop. After that they tried to charge him on his own property and he shot them.
This is the kind of person I would love to have as a neighbor and the kind of person I hope I am. - theblueprint, on 12/02/2007, -26/+146I've been robbed twice.
As a "victim", I would have been eternally thankful to anyone who would have intervened in any way. It's a horrible feeling to realize that someone has been rooting through your home while you weren't there. I lost a lot of "stuff", and a particular item that held great sentimental value... Losing something that can never be replaced is as bad as the feeling of being "unsafe" in your own home.
I watch my neighbor's apartments, and I've confronted people I don't recognize lurking. I'm not out to shoot someone, but I do arm myself, and I would shoot someone who threatened me. - inactive, on 12/02/2007, -71/+131He deserves a commendation for saving the taxpayers the expense of trying and housing the vermin.
- ggnictee, on 12/02/2007, -14/+71I don't think anyone knows the facts of the case well enough to make any determinations at this point.
We do know that it is Always illegal to use deadly force to defend property. It is not illegal to use deadly force to defend life. This is taught in every first year Tort class at every law school in the US.
You are never required to run away from someone who is in your home. Every state allows you to use deadly force to defend yourself in your own home. the "liberals" are not trying to take away this right.
However: you are not allowed to shoot a thief who is retreating, you are not allowed to us deadly force if you are only protecting property. This is also every state.
The court will have to decide whether going to your neighbors house with a shotgun is more like the first or second situations.
but right now there aren't enough facts. - showyoudawei, on 12/03/2007, -13/+51Listen to the video transcript of his 911 call... sounds like murder to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA__Shw5x90 - paulinsf, on 12/02/2007, -14/+50From the tape I heard, it didn't sound like a deadly confrontation at all. He was talking to 911, as he watched the crooks breaking in next door. Basically he was saying "Shall I shoot them? Hmmm, why not? Then he shot them." Was his life in peril? No. Would most of us like to shoot someone we saw stealing our neighbor's stuff? Yep. He had a gun and the opportunity so he went ahead and did it.
- jeffiek, on 12/02/2007, -15/+48"but still didn't he provoke the situation"
They broke into a house. He fired a warning shot. They could have run away. They didn't, they went after him.
Who provoked the situation? The thieves. - inactive, on 12/02/2007, -22/+53I'd love to have a guy like that for a neighbor. One of my friends from high school had a neighbor like this. I was waiting for him outside in the car one time and the guy came over to talk to us. When the kid got in the car he was like "yeah that was Fred. He talks to everyone that he hasn't seen in the neighborhood before, and he always brings his pistol".
- mikesbaker, on 12/02/2007, -16/+45did you listen to the audio - they crossed into his yard presumably to break and enter into his house. I would have done the same thing.
- hendrixlives64, on 12/03/2007, -13/+41this is ridiculous! anyone who actually listened to the 911 call which was on the front page several hours ago could tell that he left the house with the intention of shooting the robbers. not only did he needlessly endanger his own life, but appointed himself judge and jury to declare that the lives of these men were worth less than a few hundred dollars worth of material possessions. first off, the robbers would likely have been apprehended fairly quickly with his prompt call to the police. second, you may find it easy to say "they were thieves plain and simple, the world is better off." but you have absolutely no insight regarding the situation of these men. they are people like you and me and obviously a series of unfortunate events drove them to this drastic means of self sustenance. correctional facilities and prisons exist to reform people like this. ideological heroism aside, this is murder, plain and simple.
- inactive, on 12/02/2007, -75/+103He hasn't been charged yet. Hopefully this doesn't even make it to trial.
- constantia, on 12/03/2007, -8/+36Listen to the 911 call:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5306638. ...
An officer (yes a REAL police officer) is begging him to not shoot. Yes, the robbers turned out to be armed bad guys. But there's a reason vigilante justice isn't the law of the land. The next time someone decides to go all Bronson, it could be people involved in a domestic dispute or teenagers pulling a prank on a neighbor.
We're lucky enough to live in a country where citizens can arm themselves. But those arms are for defense, not for playing cops & robbers. - illyriah, on 12/03/2007, -20/+46Death for stealing stuff? Yes. Why? Because these people didn't just steal "stuff." They stole a family and neighborhood's sense of safety. They endangered any people in the house, any children in the area, and society as a whole.
I'm liberal, and I am tired of listening to people defend the criminals. - blazes816, on 12/03/2007, -1/+27It is in Texas.
- inactive, on 12/02/2007, -19/+44Unfortunately for you there is a Texas law that protects Mr Horn.
- Zarxrax, on 12/03/2007, -3/+27This was covered on an episode of the simpsons. It doesn't work if you invite them.
- dgh1973, on 12/03/2007, -12/+35I definitely feel bad for this guy and support his intentions completely... but I can't help but play devil's advocate a little bit here. What if a friend of mine called me up while I was out of town and he was desperate for a place to stay, and I said "sure man, you can crash in my pad" but I didn't have a spare key to give him... and what if a guy like this saw him crawl in through a window and decided to have it out with him and killed my buddy?
I know it didn't go down like that in this story... but you have to think this through for a minute and notice the fine gray line here. This guy wasn't defending HIS house, he was defending a neighbors house. What if the situation wasn't so cut and dry? This is why you call 911 and stay the hell out of it IMHO.
I know I'll probably get dugg down, and I think this guy does deserve support - I'm giving this article a digg myself - I just couldn't help but stop and think about the "what ifs" surrounding a situation like this and say "yeah, this could be questionable in some circumstances". - Eunonia, on 12/03/2007, -10/+33There was no reason to kill them. He could have had them at gun point until cops arrived. Taking life is always wrong. It shows you the people that this guys is unstable. Sure they were robbing his neighbor. So what. I can't believe that for something easily replaceable, he took their lives. This does not justify anything other than him being the cold blooded killed. The quote "Boom, You're dead buddy", makes him a ***** killer. No other person would say anything to another being boom you're dead unless they are themselves Nazi Fascists. This is just wrong on all grounds. I hope that he is found guilty of murder. His life was not in danger, and he wanted to use his amendment right, but he over steeped his boundaries. Like I said, calling cops and telling them the info is right, suppose u want to be a hero and u go there with your gun, and u basically hold them until cops arrive. Then you are a hero. But now, he is a coward and a murderer. Those thieves did not kill anyone. What is upsetting here is that he said before he killed them, "Boom You're Dead". I think that will make him guilty of some kind of murder degree. I think he was just plain mad and decided to kill them, that's all. Any other person in this situation would just hold them until cops arrive and let them deal with the suspects. You may digg me down I suppose, but do we have to become like a vicious pack of animals that can't share a bone with the pack. We are not animals, but human beings. And he over did it. In another case, where the football player was killed, now that was cruel. 4 guys with guns, there is no reason to shoot anyone. These guys are the lowlifes of America. They should be each given maximum life or death sentence. This guy, should go to jail and die there. What do you think should happen to him.
- malkir, on 12/02/2007, -6/+29Had the thieves not attacked him they wouldn't be dead either... assuming his story is legit of course.
- issachar, on 12/03/2007, -3/+25Don't be stupid. The 911 operator SHOULD tell him not to intervene. If he chooses to ignore that advice and gets himself hurt or killed in the process then he is responsible for that. In the land of lawsuits, you don't need 911 operators or the state getting sued by distraught family members who felt that the operator somehow guilted him into intervening. This way it's clear. You are clearly advised not to intervene.
- Misinformant, on 12/03/2007, -27/+49He chased down and murdered unarmed men robbing an unoccupied house. The dispatcher told him repeatedly not to intervene.
I say keep the chair warm for him or however it is those lunatic, murder-loving Texans do it. - Jacob, on 12/03/2007, -1/+23if you confront them and they attack you you should be in full right to defend yourself. Sure they shouldn't be killed for stealing ***** but if you try to stop them and they attack you it's the same as if they attacked you anyways in which case you should be allowed to fight back.
- joot2112, on 12/02/2007, -11/+32If his intention was not to kill someone, why did he mock the dispatcher with the sound of a cocking shotgun? And why did he repeatedly say "I'm gonna kill 'em"?
- MikeFallopian, on 12/03/2007, -3/+23The advice of a 9-1-1 dispatcher is NOT considered legal advice. I'm not saying the guy should have shot the robbers, but you're under no legal obligation to do what a dispatcher tells you.
- mediumdaddy, on 12/02/2007, -8/+27There is an easy fix for this problem.... don't steal peoples *****!!!
- dan222555, on 12/03/2007, -12/+31Says you. I say my property is worth far more than the life of some ***** who would try and steal it.
- kingtriumph, on 12/03/2007, -8/+27I'm sick of people like you who always feel bad for the criminal, like somehow because society is ***** that gives them an excuse to do bad things. Your life is what you make of it, if you want to be a criminal, and you get shot by, well then too bad. Joe deserves a medal.
- siszam, on 12/03/2007, -31/+50He murdered those men. He was in no danger and chose to murder people over material items that did not even belong to him. A life is worth more than a tv or stereo. I hope this man gets decades in prison as an example to people. He makes all gun owners look bad. Most gun owners are not stupid rednecks looking for a chance to kill people. Responsible, sane gun owners only use their weapons against people as last resort, self defense.
- slut, on 12/03/2007, -4/+22You don't ever shoot someone in the legs, you shoot to kill. He was using a shotgun are you ***** retarded?
- jmpeagle, on 12/02/2007, -8/+25going for irony?
- inactive, on 12/02/2007, -8/+24I think the world is better off without those thieves. But that's just me.
- cufford, on 12/03/2007, -18/+34Unfortunately, contrary to what is implied and stated on the site, he was not "defending" HIS home and family. Furthermore, he took the law into his own hands, appointed himself judge, jury and executioner. While I am also quick to applaud a citizen standing up for what it right, we can't, in good conscience, in this country, ignore the rule of law that our society is based on. If we disagree with how things work, then we work to change the rules. That's democracy. His shooting of these alleged criminals was, as the least, illegal, if not morally unjustifiable. I wish him well and empathize with his apparent frustration at the time of this incident, but he was not entitled to take other people's lives in this case and as such I cannot support his cause in good conscience.
Cufford
Fresno, CA - dgh1973, on 12/03/2007, -6/+22"well i guess you have never been robbed. Please shut the ***** up if this has not happend to you. Ive been robbed twice, thank god my family wasnt home at the time. I dont think the robber would have thought twice about taking my life if he could get away with all of my stuff."
I've been in my house while someone tried to break in. Most burglars are looking for low hanging fruit and will run at any sign of trouble... like this guy did once I ran out and saw him. I was about 12 years old at the time and posed no threat to this 6 foot tall dude but he ran like the wind.
Burglars are usually not killers, they know they enter into a whole new world of legal hurt when they cross that line. I agree with what a lot of folks are saying here - burglary should not be punished with death. Digg me down all you please, but that's just a fact. - Fizban140, on 12/02/2007, -22/+38So long as we are burying thieves and criminals I don't see anything wrong with it.
- GordonV, on 12/02/2007, -4/+20Is this a scam site? Can Joe authenticate this?
- skjede, on 12/03/2007, -4/+19There's a new law that was recently passed in Texas allowing home owners to use deadly force on anyone within their property. They don't even have to prove if he was trying to flee.
- TicTacAtak, on 12/03/2007, -9/+24His intention was to shoot from the beginning...if he knew he was going to shoot he shouldn't have called the police before, instead he was told not to do anything yet went outside and killed two people when it could have been prevented.
I'd gladly shoot anyone who broke into my house but if the house next door was unoccupied like they are saying then I wouldn't do anything but call the police and sit back. - oldhick, on 12/02/2007, -8/+23So listening to the police is always the best decision?
- flux1, on 12/03/2007, -11/+26How would you feel if two people that you just saw break into a house started coming towards you? Would you just give them a hug and a smile since they are just two misunderstood people? If you ever are in a situation where you get put on trial for defending your life, I hope no one who wasn't even there when it happened comes up to you and says you deserve to go to jail because you weren't in any danger.
- rizzo2008, on 12/03/2007, -11/+24No death for invasion of another person's home. What if the criminals had killed him? Of course it would have never been dugg!
- issachar, on 12/03/2007, -4/+17Whether or not that's a good thing depends on the disposition of Fred. If Fred's a man who looks out for his neighbours that's great. But if Fred's a control freak with an inflated ego then that's a very bad thing.
- jmpeagle, on 12/03/2007, -16/+29the law is in the hands of the people
- byleth, on 12/03/2007, -8/+21Then why do armored cars have armed drivers? They shouldn't need to SHOOT anyone to protect something material such as money, right?
- nebbo, on 12/03/2007, -2/+14Isn't that the same as what he did? How hypocritical.
- SQLDigger, on 12/02/2007, -13/+25troll. "he deserves the death penalty".
- Birdoftruth, on 12/03/2007, -26/+38definition of murder is unlawful killing. So no he did not murder anyone. He killed them within his rights. They were on his ***** property. How soon we are to forget.
- spyd3rweb, on 12/03/2007, -1/+13The very existence of our freedoms depends on property rights and the ability to defend ourselves and property.
- RoboRay, on 12/03/2007, -2/+14You always shoot to kill because it's cheaper to pay a wrongful death settlement than lifetime medical care.
- FoxRacR17, on 12/03/2007, -14/+26What the ***** is wrong with you? He had no idea what those robbers were planning on doing! Its people that you that are making this country such a ***** pussy nation. What about Taylor from the redskins? He was being robbed, i suppose he did what you would do and just confront them and what did he get? KILLED. Its either him or them. And if they come on my property i can tell you for damn sure i'm not going to politely ask them to get out, its going to be them that gets shot and not me. This man did a service and its ***** liberals like you that make anyone afraid to do anything. It sounds to me like you care more about the criminals then the innocent.
- crapmatic, on 12/03/2007, -2/+14Uh, yeah, like I'm going to send money to a website with NO background story or specifics. I looked at this website just to find out where it is that a homeowner is responsible for a criminal's safety, and I couldn't even tell from that... Pasadena TX? Pasadena CA? Geez.
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