What is Digg?222 Comments
- chris8535, on 10/12/2007, -6/+171The disturbing aspects of this writing aren't their violence, language or plots. If that was true, then almost every play write in Hollywood should be suspected as a possibly mass murderer.
Rather what is disturbing is his stick-figure characters created as an excuse for violent acts, made to relieve an internal rage. The emphasis on a mother as a savior, the father/stepfather as evil and a few other things are basic psychological archetypes. But as an english major, I have critiqued my share of really disturbing works, and believe me this is no where near the worst. And :gasp: none of those students have gone on to kill 32 people. It is important to recognize mental immaturity coupled with rage or sadomasochistic tendencies, and possibly reach out to those people. But that is very difficult, and you cannot force someone to be your friend.
As we struggle to make sense of this horror, many of us will seek answers in a single issue or a single person. If there is one thing I have learned in life, its that a community is always partly responsible for the actions of its members. His community may not have been virgina tech, or possibly he was a part of no community, and that worsened the issue. Make no mistake, this individual bares the brunt of the blame, and always will, but blaming someone who is now dead and gone will not help us understand this. We need to openly discuss how this may have come about, research these shooters lives, and try to come to grips to the responsibilities we have to help people who are suffering. - jazbek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+53@ jer2eydevil88
The guy had been in the U.S. since he was 8 years old. I think by the time he got to college, he would have a pretty good grasp on the english language. Although the media has been playing up the fact that this kid was a "South Korean National" (keeping up the stereo type of asian-americans as "perpetual foreigners") , he was raised almost entirely in the U.S., basically an American. - ophilye, on 10/12/2007, -5/+49I'm not sure if this really throws up any more red flags than most violent things...
If Stephen King were to go on a murdering rampage, would everyone look at his books and say "oh, yeah, it all makes sense now." Does it make no sense that he's not doing so right now??
Yeah, he had issues, and these may be the kind of thing that a teacher can say "Hmm, maybe I should talk to the kid"... but no, you can't read these and say "oh yeah, that's it. If anyone writes something like that, they are definitely going to shoot someone." .. and unfortunately, I think that is what the world is going to expect from these stories. - Wuffles, on 10/12/2007, -6/+49As someone pointed out in the last article, it is extremely disturbing that the play "Mr Brownstone" contains the lyrics:
"The show usually starts around seven
We go on stage around nine"
Frightening, I think. :C - michael.calfee, on 10/12/2007, -5/+46Wow, that's some terrible writing.
- HNIC, on 10/12/2007, -9/+42The CNN headline was, "Tech killer wrote 'violent' plays".
Time to BAN all pencils, pens, and paper! These devices are poisoning the minds of our children. - Unclekoolaid, on 10/12/2007, -9/+42These are messed up to say the least
- SJkiteboarder, on 10/12/2007, -13/+46Please take the time to read these. If these are truly the works of Cho Seung-Hui, they are important insights into his life. These plays are clearly the works of someone who is very angry and has little grasp on reality. The characters in these plays are so completely irrational that you have to question whether the author understands basic social interactions. These are sad and disturbing.
- insanenoodle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+33He was an English major?
- quacker912, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30First shooting around 7:00, second around 9:00...yeah, that is pretty crazy.
- hollowex, on 10/12/2007, -3/+29How long until someone makes the plays and puts them up on youtube?
- richardmcbeef, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26mcbeef here,
i would like to say that i was not portrayed fairly in this play and the draft that i was given differed greatly from the final product.
i will be publishing my own sequel called "mcbeefs redemption" which will show my kinder side and how i finally bonded with young john, it should be out by early to mid 2008. im currently looking at getting reese witherspoon cast in the starring role. - jazbek, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22I think they did raise some red flags.. one of his creative writing teachers referred him to campus counseling after being concerned about his writing, but no one paid attention to how it turned out.
- maggiemerc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I dunno. I'm a writer myself. Back in college we frequently workshopped our plays. Many, like these two, painted in broad strokes, and many, like these two, used a lot of disturbing imagery. You can't really fault a professor, or even a counselor, for not taking further action when reading these plays. They read like rushed 10 minutes, not like great works he spent a lot of time on. The first is like a strange attempt at merging How I Learned To Drive with Glengarry Glen Ross, and frankly pedophilia and murder are extremely common (and now days pedantic) in theater.
What is really disturbing is the title character of each piece. Both men are slowly driven to doing something nasty to another person. There's the build and release. And both plays feature young people who get their comeuppance. Which makes you wonder which character he related to most in each piece, because every writer relates to at least ONE character in some form.
Obviously since the attacks it would seem he related to McBeef and Brownstone. I'd be curious to find out which play was penned first. It is easy to assume McBeef was first. The plot is a riff on extremely popular themes and very common for a first time playwright. But McBeef is also significantly more reluctant to "release." When he is finally driven to exact retribution it is "out of sheer desecrated hurt and anger." McBeef is largely sympathetic.
Brownstone, on the other hand, is portrayed as a violent and malicious man (though this may just be through the eyes of the students). He is quicker to release and actually happy about it. So if Cho Seung Hui did relate to these older men this second play shows a change in his thinking. He's a bad guy and through bad acts good things happen. It's cynical and, post-shooting, terrifying.
Sadly I may just be reading to into these plays in a vain effort to understand his motivations. - dolemite5005, on 10/12/2007, -13/+23What a puss, I've beat off to more disturbing stuff than this.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Gasp - Wow - that is some really bad art.
So what? Every knucklehead kid in the world thinks he is an artist.
If you want to see some really appalling performance art - just look at the media vultures circling over virginia tech. - nodong, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11And yet the legend of Richard McBeef will probably outlast most contemporary literature.
- dorianh49, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17and grammar check, too :)
- jtoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Good analysis. Much better than those who claims Cho was writing at 8th-grade level because they think the charaters' spoken English level is Hui's writing level.
- jfelcans, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I wonder how long it takes the media to dump this whole case on Marilyn Manson again
- rapier8, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13For an English major, he sure did suck ass at writing. Don't they teach you how to write or something in college?
- toddah, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"torturous rituals of communistic leaders or dictator"? His family emigrated from South Korea, not North.
- krebcycle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13They read very strangely; it's like he didn't know what to write for the playwriting assignment and wrote down his ***** up dreams or something instead.
- JorgeGonzalez, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Funny story: in high school, my creative writing class was assigned to write a scary story for Halloween. I decided to write a story about a gunman coming into the classroom and shooting up this one kid that I truly hated. I was pretty graphic about it.
Anyway, a year or two later, Columbine happened and the teacher remembered my story and I was "evaluated" by the school. I finished high school and did college and I didn't shoot anyone up. Just because you write violence doesn't mean you're going to commit a massacre. This ***** can't be prevented and it comes with the territory of being a human being. Sadly, people die unnecessarily. If we're going to act on this creative violence, people like Quentin Taratino or Mel Gibson would be behind bars. - milkdog, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17Chris8535 has a good point about society, and belonging. There are people, be it from any culture who simply do not feel they belong to any community. If they are truly shunned by people or not is irrelevant. The only thing which matters is how a person perceives the world. If someone sees the world as a terrible place full of hate, violence, and danger that is the world for them. On the other hand if someone sees the world as a safe place, full of opportunity that is the world to them. People are not bound by reality, we all create our own personal realities. The thing is that most of us in the world have come to agree to a certain degree about the way things are, that is to say that we all share a common similar view of reality. With our shared view of reality we can all communicate and understand each other and essentially function within a group or community. There are people who do not share the same view of things, and see the world as a terrible place, some of them feel that they are superior to everyone around them, and treat people as garbage. Others are terrified all the time and never leave their “safe zone” which in most cases is their home or neighborhood. Now we come to the even smaller group of people, their reality is shifted to such a degree that they view everyone and everything around them as a threat, or a target. In either case people who are trapped inside of a world where everything is wrong, or dangerous it is easy to see how such a person may eventually snap.
While this may or may not relevant to Cho Seung-Hui’s case it does fit the possible psychological footprint. In any case, it is difficult to take something like a play and decide that the author of said play with in x months arm himself to the teeth and go off killing everyone he sees. There is no way to make that kind of connection. It was said earlier in the comments that if we were to look at these plays as a sign that someone who writes such things is about to go on a rampage, we will have to look at every movie scrip ever written in the past 25 or so years.
When it comes to warning signs about things like this, people never head the warnings, they never make the connection until after the massacre happens. The reason people do not connect the dots as it were, is simple because it is much easier to find your way to the beginning once you have an established end. Think of it like solving a maze by working your way from the exit to the entrance. It is far easier to solve the puzzle that way. The point is that in most cases “warning signs” are pointless, and nothing more than another fear mongering tool, just keep us all looking for “warning signs” so we can justify spying on our neighbors and what not.
To quote hnic:
“The CNN headline was, "Tech killer wrote 'violent' plays".
Time to BAN all pencils, pens, and paper! These devices are poisoning the minds of our children.” - Buckiller, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13Mr. Brownstone- A crappy read and the playwright's style wasn't very interesting, probably the worst part about the play. However, I liked the plot a good deal. When I read this I naturally assumed the position of possibly another student in Brown's class. There seems more to this story than what we have been given by Seung Hui. These teenage characters sure looked and acted like thugs/gangsters to me. Perhaps Brownstone is not such a bad person, but rather the thugs perception of him is given. The ending was actually very comical.
Richard McBeef- This one has a better writing style to it... and possibly a more rational plot. Personally I interpreted John as being a confused teenager that also has some type of psychotic problem (perhaps stemming from his father's likely accidental death) McBeef is the typical step dad we all see in movies or stories these days, just trying to fit into the family and provide. However, McBeef can not control his own emotions and temper just as John is also incapable of rational thoughts. I liked the ending to this as well, an innocent man kills his helpless stepson because of his inability to control his own temper/emotions (though he thought the only person with problems controlling his emotions was his stepson, John). - johnwyles, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15The reason people are calling it "messed up" or "creepy" is because its the writing of a sociopath with a warped and deranged mind who went on a killing spree. The writings shed bright light into the personal life of the killer and possibly why he killed (rape, agressive/violent father, broken home, etc). THAT is why they are creepy, not the writings in and of themselves, but the writings IN CONTEXT.
- vokiel, on 10/12/2007, -10/+17I don't get it, what do you find messed up about those exactly? They read like some play written by a 12 years old, trying to write a Southpark episode granted. Still ... The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was more messed up than this and nobody is witch hunting in Hollywood ( unless for the benefit of the camera of course).
I'm putting my money in the "fake" department. - tdk2fe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8House of 1000 corpses? Devil's rejects? Hostel?
Just a few movies that have came out in the last few years that are _much_ more twisted and violent than these. I'll bet the people who wrote those had early stories that probably read a lot like what is posted in this article. My point is simply that you don't have to be some kind of freak to make nightmares a reality - the scariest thing that will probably come out of this whole incident is the fact that this kid is just like you and me. - cartwheels, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9...but apparently not on your comment.
- Future2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Everyone please take the time to block this guy.
- seanc6610, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9But he moved to the US in 1992, when he was already 8, I doubt he got the foreign film effect from American movies. He was definitely here long enough that, as an English major, he should have had a grasp of the language. But to me, it seems like these aren't perfected or even revised essays, just streams of conscience filled with rage and torment. I'm no psychoanalyst, but I think it's fair to assume that he had some issues.
- Piggycow, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Looks like something a violence and swearing obsessed 12 year old would write to be cool.
- dorianh49, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Yes, look up there ↑; quacker912 already made that connection.
- Daisuke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8isn't that the same ruse scientology is using to convert people to their cult?
http://www.digg.com/world_news/SICK_CELEBRITY_CULT_OF_SCIENTOLOGY_ATTEMPTS_TO_CAPITALIZE_ON_VIRGINIA_TECH
yeah... about that... - cremophore, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Your writing is as horrible as Cho's
- PittPanthersFan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10English major?!
- klawz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What would you have done? The teacher alerted the authorities, recommended he have counsellings. What he wrote wasn't illegal. It wasn't a writing stating he was going to kill anyone. There is no hard-link to people who write stuff like this and murderers, less mass-murderers. Hindsight is 20/20.
- Buckiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@ prockcore
Ive read many short stories and plays that have interesting choices of dialect or jargon. Not all plays or stories have to realistically represent the vocabulary of a certain group, or any group for that matter.
Many writers write about subjects that they are familiar with. Take that for what it's worth... but in no way does that make someone a bad writer. There are many famous (and good) writers that write about what they recognize in their lives. - Buckiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This was mentioned in this article I believe. People tried to get close to Seung Hui but he was simply not going to have it... Totally closed shell.
But... I will be giving guys like this Snickers. - Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5THIS IS RIDICULOUS.First, people whine about Jack Thompson and his vendetta against video games, as well as the media drawing links between video games and violence, then people go and hop on the "writing" bandwagon as evidence for his behavior. HYPOCRITES
- foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Heh... spellcheck and grammer check still register on those pictures...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7He could have written Grindhouse 2 with Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez.
In otherwords, that movie would suck too.
- mlvassallo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5He lived in America for 12 years. He was an American Teen.
- Kikinou, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7This level of killing is about a below-average day in Iraq. Given how traumatized we all are with this, imagine how living in Iraq feels.
- jtoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I know he spent his childhood in the States. But you know how cruel teens can be. My guess is kids were so rude to him then that he spent his entire childhood in misery.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9So many mistakes in the scripts.
I must admit, it kept me well amused. - shinramen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5how long before a studio purchases the rights? god knows they've adapted worse...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7@unhappy: Uhm he even says in the story "The song by Guns N' Roses called Mr. Brownstone. The song was about their heroin addiction" Maybe you should read it again.
- revenge7, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Webster you are not.
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