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336 Comments
- AbelVoicu, on 10/11/2007, -29/+498This is un-*****-believable. Why should the students be punished for something they had no control over?
- Itazura, on 10/11/2007, -28/+282@coolestkidalive
"I think the problem here is that the people who were loud weren't dignified."
Um...so these kids should be denied graduating from high school because people are loud idiots? That isn't the problem at all, the problem is that our education system is sooo beyond full of ***** that they care more about noise than they do the academic acheivements of their students. ***** pathetic, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just as pathetic. - FoolishMortal, on 10/11/2007, -5/+179"You cant shout fire in a movie theater."
I would prefer that no one shout anything in the movie theater and let me watch the damn movie. :) - enalios, on 10/11/2007, -23/+141sorry, your friends and family have too much respect and admiration for you... Diploma: DENIED!
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/11/2007, -33/+137Highschool graduation ceremonies are stupid anyway. They made sense maybe 200 years ago when graduating from High School really was a big deal. Now pretty much unless you have a higher university degree, education is just a normal thing that people do. Ceremonies are for achievements, but now High School is the beginning of our education system more than the termination. Thats why I refuse to go to a graduation ceremony of mine until I get a Masters or PhD. I will go when I feel I have really achieved something, not before then.
Also, our High School system in america is insane and near useless. I highly urge parents to look into direct-to-college options when possible. College isn't very practical either, but its an order of magnitude better than HS. Let your kids come out at 18 with 2-3 years of Uni study under their belt instead of wasting time reading poems by authors they don't care for and running laps. - SlvrEagle23, on 10/11/2007, -20/+108"...4 of the students were black and 1 was hispanic..."
Yeah...um...I'm gonna try to not sound racist with this comment, but seriously, these ARE the same people who yell loud and annoying ***** at the screen in the movie theater...isn't it possible they really were the most annoying cheers in the audience? I'm just sayin...
That, and what disc said above about the potential that they valued someone in their family graduating from high school more because of the fact that it was probably tougher for them. Looks like this probably isn't a race issue, but hey, if the only victims weren't white, it will probably be spun as one anyway. - CannedMango, on 10/11/2007, -13/+92Hey remember those last 4 years of hard work and learning that you did? Well that pales in comparison to the grievous crime of having people be happy for you. Diploma denied!!!
- disc, on 10/11/2007, -50/+116This is going to come off as bigoted, but eh, what the hell; I'll put myself out there. In my experience, the socio-economically depressed feel (justifiably so) that their graduation of a family member earns more merit than a quantitatively equivalent student. In fear that these additional difficulties that the lower socio-economical students overcome may go unnoticed, the supporters of these children make sure they are the best cheered for, potentially at the expense of the graduates before and after them. While I don't think this particular school's rule is entirely fair in its implementation (it is completely conceivably that somebody would excessively praise someone they wish to endanger,) the intent is clear; all graduates met the same standards of graduation, and all deserve equal acclamation, regardless of the socio-economical boundaries you had to overcome to get there. You're freedom of speech stops when it becomes a disturbance of my peace.
- Loonacy, on 10/11/2007, -5/+68So if I really hated someone, all I'd have to do to get to them is cheer while they're getting their diploma? Perfect!
- joshmoney, on 10/11/2007, -10/+68Let Are Kids Have Diplomas!
- swimdrum06, on 10/11/2007, -4/+51I went to this high school. I hated all four years I was there and was happy to get out. Coming from there, I don't think race is the issue here, although the students who go there/did go there might say differently. I was at the 2005 graduation, the year before they implemented the rule, working in the pit. This graduation was the most out of control spectacle I have ever seen. Kids were literally walking across the stage making gang symbols (gangs are a big problem in Galesburg) as well as the screamers in the audience. People didn't just scream for two or three seconds; it was for the entire time they crossed the stage. Audience members were also yelling things that had nothing to do with the ceremony such as "So and So is a Hottie!" It makes sense that this rule was put into place because the graduate behind them couldn't even have their name heard. It makes sense too for the sheer reason of moving graduation along quickly (the day I graduated it was over 101 degrees outside). I can understand that the rule might be a little unfair if someone in the audience was cheering and it may have not been the family, but in reality, the "diploma" that you recieve from my high school is just a crappy piece of paper. It doesn't mean anything, and these kids still did graduate. However, what the article fails to mention is that my hometown, being very low economically, has a lot of problems, and while these kids parents say that it's a race issue, I remember the year I graduated that a white kid didn't get his diploma. I think it's funny to all of the kids who graduated from Galesburg that this is so blown out of proportion. Having gone to this school, we all completely agree to the stupidity of the place, but it's something you just learn to accept and try to escape from that hellhole. Can't say I'm finding the suburbs any more appealing however.
- pervy_the_clown, on 10/11/2007, -2/+47they graduate, just don't get their diploma. still stupid, but they still graduated
- endustry, on 10/11/2007, -10/+53If this were about five movie patrons being ejected for making a ruckus, most of the comments would be pro-establishment, "Yeah, screw those inconsiderate bastards, etc. etc." As is, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding and people are, per usual, digging on knee-jerk emotion without thinking much about the issue.
First, these kids are NOT being denied the right to graduate; they're just not getting their little paper diploma. In terms of getting into college, the transcripts of the one girl will still say she had a 3.4 and graduated with honors. Colleges don't ask to see diplomas and neither do future employers. They're basically keepsakes. This is really the school's only recourse to make an example of these five kids and show the families of next year's commencement that they're not ***** around.
Look at the evidence as a means of estimating the problem: all the parents had to sign waivers promising not to make noise. Things like this aren't done arbitrarily by some ***** school principle just to ruin people's fun for no reason other than to be a dick. Binding parents to agree that they will behave is a huge step and clearly, at least to me, a sign of how bad things had gotten at previous graduations. If I had gotten all dressed up and dragged granny down to see my kid's graduation and I couldn't hear her name because the family of the previous student totally drowned us out, I'd be pissed. I'd want something done to ensure that everyone's kid and everyone's family got to hear their child's name -- it's what you sit there for an hour waiting for.
Some people cannot control themselves in public -- particularly when in groups. I live in NYC and experience this all the time. Whether it's the band of teenagers on the subway -- white or black -- who decide to ruin the commute of everyone on board by being loud and obnoxious or even when it's the gaggle of tourists who clog up entire sections of the sidewalk making everyone have to scrunch up to snake past them or walk in the actual street just to get by -- some people just suck at being considerate of others. If all of the faculty in charge of reporting the families turned in the same names, I'm sold on the fact that these five families were the same kind of people. - HigherLogic, on 10/11/2007, -3/+40>> You cant shout fire in a movie theater.
The real question is, can you shout "theater" in a crowded fire? - lo0ol, on 10/11/2007, -2/+37I had mixed feelings about this during my high school graduation. On one hand, it's fun to cheer on your friends and family, since graduating high school is an important aspect of your life. On the other hand, we had a fair minority bringing in air horns and really going crazy with the celebrating, which I think is a little inappropriate for the occasion. As TFA brought up, the main issue that was that other parents couldn't hear their own kid's name read off, and I think that would be pretty aggravating if you were the parents. Also, I distinctly remember sitting during my graduation and hearing a fair amount of the names of my peers being read off and getting no applause, either out of respect to the written instructions or to maybe a lack of extended family present, and that just lead to an awkward delayed applause to fill the silence.
Should they get their diplomas? Sure; I think the school system was a little over the top here. But it's really just an awkward ceremony to begin with. - robbh66, on 10/11/2007, -2/+36Did you read the article? The only thing that happened to her is she didn't get her paper diploma. She graduated.
I'd be mad at her age too but when she gets older she'll realize that all it represents is that she's not a complete ***** retard. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+38I don't even know where my diploma is...lol
- NoOneButMe, on 10/11/2007, -3/+31Dude, It's not the paper that's important, but what it signifies that matters.
- somunny, on 10/11/2007, -0/+28Because it played the clarinet in the marching band.
- footbag01, on 10/11/2007, -5/+31I've been to at least 10 graduations, and at each one they tell you to hold the applause until the end. Then everyones family tries to make as much noise as possible when the grad crosses the stage. Whats wrong with this school?
- dannyboy3020, on 10/11/2007, -5/+27The students and their parents SIGNED a contract. I don't understand why they couldn't simply adhere to it. Did they figure nothing would happen?
- humansky, on 10/11/2007, -5/+26"You cant shout fire in a movie theater."
What if there really is a fire??? - shewasjustagrl, on 10/11/2007, -4/+24@Itazura
I'm certain that having a diploma taken away doesn't equate to not graduating. It's just a nice foil-embossed piece of paper that symbolizes your graduation, but it's essentially useless for anything but framing and displaying on your wall.
Talk about over-sensationalizing the issue. Even the commencement ceremony isn't necessary for graduation. - Dmaulchris, on 10/11/2007, -1/+21New school payback: cheer for the kids you don't like.
- GRTWHT, on 10/11/2007, -6/+23It's her fault that someone else is too noisy? That makes about as much sense as charging the passenger in a vehicle for speeding!
- Elranzer, on 10/11/2007, -14/+31I just had a graduation ceremony this May, and I can honestly say that the only obnoxious, Arsenio Hall-style hooting, screaming and "Yeaaaah Dawg!!"s were coming from the black and Latino families. Honestly, every one. Each one louder than the last, as if it were some competition to see who could be the loudest *****. And this was a Masters Degree ceremony.
Granted... those black and Latino graduates got their paper diploma, nonetheless. - Tourney3p0, on 10/11/2007, -17/+32The problem isn't that they had too much respect for their family. It's that they had no respect whatsoever for anyone else's family.
- 35263526, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17endustry, there's a big flaw in your movie theatre analogy; the cinema patrons being kicked out are the people who made the ruckus. In this instance, the students are being punished what what _someone else_ did. Yes, they can encourage their friends and family not to make noise, but they can't ultimately stop them short of not giving them tickets. Plus, this paragraph FTFA raises a damn good point:
'"It's not fair. Somebody could not like me and just decide to yell to get me in trouble. I can't control everyone, just the ones I gave tickets to," Trent said.' - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17the only way i could digg you down faster is if you'd written "sheeple" in your comment.
- markingtime, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13charging the driver for the passenger not wearing a seat belt DOES make sense.
When I drive i don't go anywhere until everyone is buckled in. The Driver CAN control the passenger a lot more than these students could control their stupid families - Gir53457, on 10/11/2007, -8/+19Let me guess. You're the little ***** next door who claims to reject the government, legal tender, and anything mainstream with your mislead version of anarchy while driving your Mercedes that your parents bought you for your sixteenth birthday and enjoying all your fancy little toys and bad music. You're still in California dude, you keep claiming your moving to Japan... But you're still here. In America, Getting failing grades at De La Salle.
- merwin, on 10/11/2007, -12/+22@endustry
"If this were about five movie patrons being ejected for making a ruckus, most of the comments would be pro-establishment, 'Yeah, screw those inconsiderate bastards, etc. etc.'"
No, you dumbass. This is like a movie patron in the front row getting ejected when 5 complete strangers are making a ruckus. These kids who didn't get their diplomas did nothing. In fact, it doesn't even say that their parents or people that they gave tickets to did anything either. It just says that there was a loud disturbance when these 5 people's names were called. So just because a bunch of OTHER people who the person has no control over yell and scream when the person's name gets called, that person doesn't get a diploma.
Punishing the student for what the crowd does. Only in America... - polypropglop, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11"Minorities should be seen and not hear."...
What the hell is this world comming to? :( - Pogue_Mahone, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10The punishment in this case was awful - punishing one person for the actions of another is a fundamentally flawed enforcement of a rule. The quote at the end,
"It's not fair. Somebody could not like me and just decide to yell to get me in trouble. I can't control everyone, just the ones I gave tickets to," Trent said,"
perfectly explains why this is a problem. If for no other reason than that they should have reconsidered the punishment while the ceremony was still in planning stages. Punish those yelling, not those accepting the diplomas. If that doesn't work, then perhaps in the future they should limit invitees to the ceremony to only parents or legal guardians, and then escort those people out if they yell.
That said, why the hell can't people just be quiet at a graduation ceremony? It's a solemn culmination of many years of hard work, and the hooting and yelling and other BS like that demeans the entire ceremony and shows a lack of respect for the nature of the accomplishment. This is a graduation ceremony, not the championship game of a weekend slo-pitch tournament. Sure, for someone who's already graduated from high school a high school diploma might not seem like a big deal, but for someone who's just finished their time in high school it's likely the biggest academic achievement in their life. Hoot, hollar, and be a boar on your own time. Unless the school is deliberately taking a different tack, graduations are meant to be serious, solemn, yet happy experiences. - endustry, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11Next time you leave Aunt Bessie's drunk ass at home.
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11@KyleGoetz Actually, I did very well in English class, and like poetry quite a bit, albeit it only a very narrow selection of prose and themes. I am also minoring in Japanese Language and Culture on top of my Computer Engineering BS. The problem is forcing students to do things they do not care about and pretending they are being educated. Universities recognize this and allow for free interpretation as far as it is sensible and also allow students some freedom in studying what they are interested in. In High School, I took 4 years of Spanish but now know far far less of it than my 1 full year of Japanese study so far because I did not care about learning Spanish but am very interested in Japanese. Also, I did not like American literature very much at all but studied more of it than English and Swedish literature which I like at all. I hated American History but now love studying Chinese History, a class that wasn't even offered. Disagree on why you think Lincoln was a horrible President in HS and get shafted with your grade. Write the same well thought out paper in college and it is graded fairly. Some people think that Steinbeck is a genius. Others think he is an idiot. It shouldn't be "taught" either way. That is the problem. I think students should be forced to expand their horizons, but not to what other people think is valuable because.
- MadeInGuam, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9"Highschool graduation ceremonies are stupid anyway. They made sense maybe 200 years ago when graduating from High School really was a big deal. Now pretty much unless you have a higher university degree, education is just a normal thing that people do."
For the majority of Americans, high school is the last form of formal education. High school doesn't come easy to a lot of these students, so when one actually sees the light at the end of that academic tunnel, the commencement ceremony is quite a big deal - even if it's "just a normal thing that people do." - PDelahanty, on 10/11/2007, -4/+13Their parents signed the contract...so why are the students punished and have to do community service because Aunt Bessie was a loud bitch? ...or because their ex-girlfriend yelled to intentionally get them in trouble? It's a bad policy and the students themselves did nothing wrong and should not be made to do community service as a result.
- merwin, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11@shewasjustagrl
Yes, they are still graduating. But let's say you're the first person in your family to ever graduate high school. Wouldn't you want to proudly display that "piece of paper"? - jennamalia, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8oops:
Two of the five Galesburg High School graduates who were denied diplomas because audience members cheered for them during their graduation ceremony say administrators have offered to grant the diplomas if the people who disrupted the ceremony apologize.
http://www.register-mail.com/stories/060107/MAI_BDCRLMCK.GID.shtml - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13"it's an important solemn occasion" WTF?
It's not like it's a funeral. It should be a celebration of the students achievement. If people in the crowd are being unruly that's one thing, but cheering for your friend or relative hardly warrants this sort of punishment.
These zero-tolerance policies that schools have are breeding a mindset that will undermine the very fabric of America and ultimately lead to its demise. We've got a dictatorial wing of the US government educating and raising our children, paid for by their parents. These school administrators all need to be fired. We pay their salaries and in return they act like this? - fpssledge, on 10/11/2007, -4/+11from article
"...Meanwhile, the school said the five students can still get their diplomas by completing eight hours of public service work, answering phones, sorting books or doing other chores for the district, situated about 150 miles southwest of Chicago."
Yeah, because even after 12 years of learning isn't quite enough. They MUST answer phones and sort books. The rest of them deserve it, but these guys don't.
You know my high school always told everyone they wold be withheld from graduation ceremonies if they didn't act accordingly. I might agree with them to on that (to a point). But actually withholding a diploma is madness. They deserve that diploma. If they wanted to ban them from the rest of the ceremony or whatever else then there wouldn't be any fuss. But witholding a well-earned diploma is absolutely unacceptable. If I were them I would sue them for the diploma, and on top of that, make sure they lose their jobs over it.
oh yeah, I'm not sure you exactly need a diploma these days. I've been through about 10 different interviews over a year and not a single one even asked to see a diploma. They always ask about college, but never a diploma. - BigKoala, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9How about using microphones and loud speakers?
The people who work at schools seem to be really stupid. - Greg888, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Sounds like a crap town altogether. I'd get the Hell out of Dodge. You deserve better.
- Nick22, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Blocked eh? That explains why its on the front page right now.
- KMye, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9This school is ***** up, but I'm a little disappointed in the students, too. I would wager that at my graduation, after the principal refused to hand out the first diploma, every student after him or her would have had the ***** cheered out of them. But if the school's audacious enough to try this, maybe they'd already broken the students...
- wazzat, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9Who cares? They still graduated and all they're missing is a stupid piece of paper that will sit in their attic for the rest of their lives. I don't even know where my diploma is.
It's not like it's the pinnacle of achievements. It's just high school. - shewasjustagrl, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10@CannedMango
Again, just wanted to point out that losing a diploma doesn't mean losing your status as a high school graduate. It's just a piece of paper.
If something seems overly ridiculous or impossible, think it through. Maybe it really is. - insomniac8400, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6"School officials said they will hear students and parents out if they appeal. Meanwhile, the school said the five students can still get their diplomas by completing eight hours of public service work, answering phones, sorting books or doing other chores for the district, situated about 150 miles southwest of Chicago."
The school system is screwed. They will pay out millions for doing this. Community service because someone else cheered for you? If that action isn't illegal nothing is. - jull1234, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Make the parents/family do the 8 hours of community service to earn the diploma back.
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