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166 Comments
- 1town, on 12/11/2007, -3/+32Also: FBI man admits a pencil is a form of writing tool.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -5/+25"Anyone who knows what waterboarding is could not be unsure. It is a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot [...] People who have worn the uniform and had the experience know that this is a terrible and odious practice and should never be condoned in the U.S. We are a better nation than that."
-Sen. John McCain - TheRemoteViewer, on 12/11/2007, -1/+14"The technique involves pouring water on the covered face of a restrained prisoner." Jesus, talk about an understatement.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -7/+17Actually the military themselves say it doesn't work, because it produces unreliable intelligence. But don't let that get in the way of your sick revenge fantasies.
- MrWhite7, on 12/11/2007, -0/+10You could just have said "the end justifies the means" and been done with it.
- DooM, on 12/11/2007, -4/+13"Waterboarding is a torture technique that simulates drowning in a controlled environment. It consists of immobilizing an individual on his or her back, with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face[1] to FORCE THE INHALATION OF WATER INTO THE LUNGS. ... The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last long after the procedure.[4] Although waterboarding in cases can leave no lasting physical damage, it carries the real risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries as a result of struggling against restraints (including broken bones), and even death."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding - themonkman, on 12/12/2007, -2/+11The problem is that while we are waterboarding people to get information, it doesn't lead us to resolve the reason they want to kill us in the first place. It's not because we are free people. For Christ's sake, if that was the reason then the Netherlands or Canada would've been blown to dust a long time ago. The reason they hate America is because of our foreign policy. They see us as an invasion on their holy lands, a threat to their sovereignty, the country that assassinates their leaders and even overthrows democratically elected governments. Our foreign policy oppresses everyone that isn't direct allies with us. We wage wars under the auspice of spreading freedom when it's really about protecting our access to vital resources just so that we can maintain our bloated national excess. Anything to keep things as cheap as possible. If we were really about spreading freedom by force, then why aren't we freeing the people of communist China? The reason is because they give us trillions of dollars to which we are indebted to them, and that we get everything we want cheaper than elsewhere. You never see those flag waving war mongers crying over the oppressed people in China and demanding their freedoms, do you? Of course not.
This is the vicious cycle. We oppress them and steal their resources or overthrow them if they don't hand them over to us at a decent price. They hate us and in return use terrorist tactics against us. We go to war with them, kill or waterboard as many as we can while their children grow up to hate America for killing and torturing their fathers and being oppressive. Their children grow up and use terrorist tactics against us. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. I cannot believe that people cannot get this through their thick skulls. This is why Israel and Palestine will never be at peace. This is what breeds what we call terrorism. It's more like retaliatory attacks. In fact, that is exactly what it is. Don't believe me? Read up on Iran and what we did to them to reinstall the Shah. History repeats itself when the same mistakes are made. - floridiot2, on 12/11/2007, -6/+15Innocent until proven guilty... wait unless you're brown, then you're a terrorist.
You sir are a redneck *****. - ArchieAndrews, on 12/11/2007, -1/+9"You make it sould like it never works...and that's *****. the majority of the time it DOES work....."
[citation needed] - proliance, on 12/11/2007, -14/+22"The threat information he provided disrupted a number of attacks, maybe dozens of attacks.''
Good enough for me.
If you're not familiar with how waterboarding works, it tricks the subject into thinking he is drowning. But water does not enter the lungs, it stays in the sinus cavity. It is painful and probably the most frightening thing a person can go through. But it doesn't cause injury. - KidDynamo0, on 12/11/2007, -4/+11and you are an idiot...troll elsewhere moron.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -7/+13Congratulations to the terrorists then. They succeeded. Our country is now less than it was.
- joe8pack, on 12/12/2007, -3/+10what is the difference between American justice and 3rd world justice, when we hold people without attorneys or habeas corpus, don't charge them with a crime and torture them? How do we hold a moral high ground when we do everything the sleaziest governments do? How do we believe the words of the CIA when we cannot cross check them for accuracy. Does it matter it saved a single life if it costs us the spirit of this once great nation. Once we were not afraid to die for what we believed, now we will give up our rights at the drop of a hat for no reason at all, just a fearful insinuation. This is America in the 21st century, or the shards that still remain. We are becoming the scum we fight.
- ArchieAndrews, on 12/11/2007, -1/+8Yeah, cause its obvious the only 2 options are torture or easter bunny treatment...
- 1337Einstein, on 12/11/2007, -3/+9Killing patients to cure diseases also works, that doesn't make it a good idea.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -3/+9So, in order to win this "war" we have to sacrifice the very things our country is supposed to stand for?
"In order to save the village, we had to destroy it" - Troika37, on 12/12/2007, -2/+7I was waterboarded at SERE. You don't drown, water does not enter your lungs, you do not experience anything which causes 'permanent physical damage' - which by the way, is the definition of torture as it stands. Being waterboarding is terrifying. It instills pure, unadulterated fear. It does not cause any physical harm. To those who say water enters the lungs - a teaspoon of water in your lungs will kill you. How does it begin to make sense that you can tolerate a pint of water in them?
Instilling fear is not torture. Eliciting an emotional response is not torture. - mbthompson, on 12/12/2007, -1/+6What the hell is this doing under odd news? Oh, that's right, couldn't get it promoted in the political section like you should have huh? Burying and I hope others follow.
- Wargalas, on 12/11/2007, -13/+18Mr Kiriakou said the method broke Zubaydah - one of the first top al-Qaeda suspects captured after the September 11, 2001 attacks - in less than 35 seconds, according to ABC.
"The next day, he told his interrogator that Allah had visited him in his cell during the night and told him to co-operate,'' Mr Kiriakou said.
"From that day on, he answered every question,'' he said.
So.....it worked. Kind of takes the wind out of the sails of many people's argument that the technique doesn't work.
What the article doesn't say, but others around the internet do, is that this technique lead to the guy giving us the whereabouts of Khalid Sheik Muhammed, the guy who planned 9/11. He also handed over the identities of people that we didn't know about.
He can claim that "Allah visited him that night" all he wants, but the bottom line is that this technique worked and it yielded crucial, CORRECT information.
Now me personally, since I've seen up close and personal what the 9/11 attacks did to people, with burns, nightmares, and horror stories, I don't see the big deal in making a person believe he's drowning. I'm angry enough even to this day to want to peel their skin off with a dull rock to get every bit of information out of them. - detales, on 12/11/2007, -4/+8No *****.
You don't have to be an expert to judge whether or not waterboarding is torture. You just have to not be Dick Cheney. - amn3, on 12/12/2007, -0/+4Not if someone I knew was in deep with Al Queda. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -6/+10Dylson, I'd be willing to kill you for the change in your pocket for saying that. ;-) And on to other news, THE JACKASS that posted the article didn't even read it.
/QUOTE/
But he also said that in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks, there was a sense of urgency in getting information on terrorist groups.
"What happens if we don't waterboard a person, and we don't get that nugget of information, and there's an attack,'' Mr Kiriakou said.
"I would have trouble forgiving myself.''
/ENDQUOTE/
Seems like a very level headed sort of guy working for the CIA. I would certainly like to work there with him. - amn3, on 12/12/2007, -0/+4How do you know that it's only one case Mr. Critical Thinker?
- cfuse, on 12/12/2007, -0/+4Whitehouse denies that a pencil is a writing tool. Claims that Iran is developing it's own writing tools for military use and claims the most appropriate course of action to ensure peace is to launch an all out attack. Rest of the world grumbles, France complains loudly, nobody does anything. UN suggests that sanctions on things that can be used to make writing instruments, nobody pays any attention so UN spends the next 6 months drafting a resolution to condemn everyone for not listening to them. Iran claims that it is only making writing instruments for civilian use and that nobody there is gay - is widely disbelieved by everyone.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -3/+7Interesting that you bring up bombing Japan in WW II, since we convicted Japanese guards of war crimes....for waterboarding.
There are rules in war. You break them, you should be punished. In accordance with the law. That applies to both sides. I'm all for imprisoning enemy combatants, after they have had their day in court. - DooM, on 12/12/2007, -0/+4Here's a couple of links to the articles that broke it anyway - there hasn't been any confirmation or denial from Pelosi, et al. Sooooo... not sure this is evidence but in the absence of vehement denials I'll take it at face value for now:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119734098837720381 ... - themonkman, on 12/12/2007, -1/+5No, it's you war mongering interventionalists that are pissing of people who'd rather have nothing to do with us that are going to get us killed. If we just traded with Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran and kept the ***** out of their god damned business we'd have nothing to worry about. People rarely hate without a semi-justifiable reason. Why don't we just worry about America and who comes here and for what reasons. The Middle East can deal with things on themselves. If they want to blow each other up, then fine. Not my business or problem. It's nothing that a single press of the red button here in the US couldn't handle if things got way too out of hand. We did it with the Soviets in the Cold War. Nobody is a threat to us if we protect our borders and stay the ***** out of other Nations affairs. This is what the founders of our country advised. Trade with all, ally with none. Worry about the affairs of America. Look what happens when we ignore it! God you people are stupid. I hope your happy with what your ignorance has caused. We probably wouldn't have had 9/11 if it weren't for ***** like you.
- ScionAltera, on 12/11/2007, -2/+6Good. Hope you're first. I'd rather die with the moral high ground than live as a scumbag like you.
- ScionAltera, on 12/11/2007, -3/+7So it worked in one instance. Torture has failed in numerous other instances. Big deal. It's still torture. It's wrong, and you suck for condoning it.
- ironhide, on 12/11/2007, -3/+7Where was the declaration of war?
- ArchieAndrews, on 12/11/2007, -4/+8Some guy saying that "it works" with no verifiable evidence solves your ethical problems with this? Really?
- themonkman, on 12/12/2007, -0/+3Even John McCain, who HAS been tortured as a POW believes that waterboarding is torture. As a POW, I believe that his opinion trumps your uninformed one.
- pcpimpster, on 12/12/2007, -1/+4so lame, but quite the chuckle.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -8/+11the CIA is on an all-out propaganda campaign to distract attention from their destruction-of-evidence scandal.
- blake_mooney, on 12/12/2007, -1/+4Not all midden eastern men are terrorists you stupid *****. Do you have any idea how many people go to guantanamo bay that are innocent? It's this generalized thinking that the government has brainwashed people into that truly terrifies me.
- Roger, on 12/11/2007, -5/+8You'd quickly change your mind if they did it to you or someone you know.
- kreneskyp, on 12/12/2007, -0/+3except you havent seen the intelligence so the saved lives really are "countless". in case you missed it when you start counting bodies you start at zero.
- buckrogers1965, on 12/12/2007, -3/+6Any information he had was useless after just 24 hours. This is all the time it takes to change all ongoing operations after you know someone was captured. All he had to do was hold out for 24 hours and he knew that any information he had would be useless to anyone. Nothing he gave up was of any use to anybody. For all we know he gave up people he didn't like and just said they were terrorists so that we would be continuing his terrorism against innocent people.
- crazywarthog, on 12/12/2007, -3/+6Nancy says no by being silent since 2002 !
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, December 9, 2007; Page A01
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk. - silverlinkx2, on 12/11/2007, -2/+5lol
- wishninja, on 12/12/2007, -0/+3well is seems that America is ok with this. Once they get everyone to admit it it will be time to got to stage two which is to allow the FBI to do this fist on murders, pedophiles, and drug dealers. Then why not allow the local authorities to do it to make their jobs easier? I oppose this no matter who it is or what they have done or are about to do.
- Error601, on 12/12/2007, -3/+6Please keep political ***** under politics. It's not hard.
- stinkymonkey, on 12/12/2007, -1/+3I still can't help think this guy is a plant from the CIA. I feel the CIA wants us to believe that back then it was OK to torture and now...they are better then that. Kind of like a very soft apology. I guess I take everything the government tells me with a grain of salt, and that's really sad.
- inactive, on 12/12/2007, -1/+3I think the big difference is intent or non intent. Do you know the difference. I am pretty sure the terrorists intend to kill civilians? No? Are you too stupid to understand that?
- themonkman, on 12/12/2007, -0/+2I believe in punishment for criminal acts, yes. I believe that everyone being prosecuted by the US deserves a judge and jury. This is the way the founders of our country built the foundation of justice, and it's the only right way to do it.
- Troika37, on 12/13/2007, -1/+3You cited international law as the reason to not waterboard. Don't go moving the goalposts.
Waterboarding is a horrific thing to subject someone to. There is no argument from me on that point. I simply disagree with your declaration of 'torture.' As long as it is legal under international statute, it can not be declared 'torture.'
Besides, you are quick to point out that morals are a fluid concept. We all have different morals and ideas as to right wrong. Some oppose gay marriage on religious grounds. The left condemn them for standing by their morals. Why do they now throw morals out as some sort of trump card? - Troika37, on 12/13/2007, -1/+3If you know anyone who has been to SERE, ask them if they believed - in their souls - that they were in a controlled environment. None of us do. Every single one of us was absoutely convinced we were going to be killed. It is part of the training that, in hindsight, was the most effective.
- Stevanoski, on 12/12/2007, -0/+2lol
- buckrogers1965, on 12/11/2007, -5/+7Water boarding is not "simulated." You are actually really drowning people with this technique.
- shootinputin187, on 12/12/2007, -2/+4"We're Americans, and we're better than this. And we shouldn't be doing this kind of thing.''
WOW, I had a good laugh after this, especially from a CIA man. The CIA, as an organization since its inception, has killed so many people, set up rebellion trust groups in foreign countries, committed the most anti-democratic acts--such as put pro-Western dictators into power during the Cold War-- and generally set up groups that comes back to haunt America. America is the epitome of the term "Blowback." The 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is America's worst enemy, and the world's worst enemy is America. -
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