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91 Comments
- airencracken, on 10/12/2007, -4/+105Problem: Getting drunk allows rape to happen
Solution: Don't get so ***** drunk.
Idiots. - corbettl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+41@airencracken: You are 100% correct. Common sense isn't so common anymore. Instead the people in power "must" save us from ourselves.
- Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26Before getting all indignant about this, please RTFA:
"Wisconsin had been the only state to exclude alcohol as a potential legal intoxicant in rape cases before the law change, sponsored by Sen. Cathy Stepp, R-Sturtevant."
Perhaps the real story is that alcohol was NOT a date rape drug in Wisconsin until now. - greyghst168, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21But people can use judgment and take steps to prevent getting overly drunk before they get drunk enough to impair they're judgment.
- politech, on 10/12/2007, -9/+24Without Alcohol most of those big tall women of German stock in Wisconsin would never get laid at all!
Don't ya know!
Ya Hey Dere! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15I don't see how anybody CAN argue for alcohol as a date rape drug.
1) The "victim" takes the drug voluntarily in most cases. It's hard to not notice there's alcohol in the drink you're taking.
2) There's quite a noticeable double standard in our treatment of men/women when alcohol is involved. Many states laws say that its rape if the woman has had n drinks. The guy could have 3 times that much and still be held liable for his actions. Why is he held to a higher standard?
3) Another double standard exists in our treatment of drunk drivers, and I'm kind of surprised you don't see more of them using this as an argument: The alcohol as rape argument is based on the reasoning that a woman who has consumed alcohol is incapable of making a rational decision... but only relating to sex?
If she's deciding whether or not to have sex, she's not liable; but if she's deciding whether or not to drive home, she is? I've always viewed sex as a more important decision than driving home, so I'd expect a greater level of impairment screwing with that decision. If I'm drunk enough to change my mind about sex, I'm way past the point of knowing if its OK to drive home. - IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Did someone sneak the alcohol into their bodies without their knowledge? No? Then it's not a defense.
- The_Wallbanger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This is just going to make the legal waters murkier. Alcohol used to be considered date rape drug if the victim was unconsious, now it will only require that victims can't give free consent. Anyone who has ever had second thoughts the morning after will now have a legal president to claim rape on the basis of compromised consent. It's not clear how a jury would deliberate. Given the usual mutual alcohol consumption for both people, couldn't alcohol also be considered the "date raper" drug?
- Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12You should have more hometown pride. I've heard Milwaukee isn't as bad as it smells.
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10no it's not really, because they've decided to took that substance and they've decided to be drunk (thus increasing the chance to get laid)
- itsthinking, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I live in Wisconsin as well, and as much as I want to get out of here, I've come to obtain a certain pride for our state recently. I used to hate it here, but Wisconsin isn't all that bad, plus, we have one of the best Senators, Russ Feingold.
- liquidedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Awesome. Now a girl can get wasted and have a questionable hookup just by being an idiot and the state will protect their honor!
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7So if both you and your partner are both drunk, and she claims date rape, can you also claim the same?
- Hoffer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6When I was a sophomore in college, I picked up a girl at a party. We were making out and such and discussed going back to my place for sex and such. We got back to my place and she went back to my bedroom. I stood and talked to my roommates for 10 minutes then went back. She was passed out drunk. I tried to wake her, but she was out.
I didn't even sleep on my bed because I was so uncomfortable with the situation. I was afraid she'd wake up in the morning and freak out because she didn't know where she was and who is this guy. I slept on the couch in the living room.
I would say that if I had sex with her in that state, it would have been rape. Even though we had intentions of having sex once we got to my place. So, I could see how alcohol could rate as a date rape drug. - lorensingley, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10It is a logical decision to make alcohol part of the family of date rape drugs because, yeah, it lowers people's inhibitions a LOT. But I do that that one difference between the normally thought-of "date rape" drugs and alcohol is that all parties involved are usually consuming it, rather than the perpetrator giving to someone without their knowledge. I guess we as a society need to keep deciding what to allow and what to dis-allow in the name of fun.
- sosuke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7pardon my chuckle at your pun, indiggnant, and thanks for clearing that fact up
- escheppa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Don't you just love the smell of beer fermenting when the wind blows out of the Menominee valley... I know I do.
- escheppa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8If it wasn't for germans in wisconsin you wouldn't have any beer to drink to begin with.
- kakwakas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8With the way the law works, you're usually held liable for anything you do drunk as you MADE THE DECISION to get drunk.
So, if there's a really drunk girl and a really drunk guy who do it, and the girl cries rape the next morning, is the guy still held liable? I can imagine that in court...
"YOU RAPED THIS WOMAN WHILE SHE WAS OVERLY INTOXICATED! HER JUDGEMENT WAS IMPAIRED TO THE POINT WHERE SHE COULD NOT HAVE CONSENTED."
"...But I was overly intoxicated and couldn't have consented, either!"
"BUT YOU HAVE A PENIS, SIR!! IN THIS COURT OF LAW, THAT AUTOMATICALLY MAKES YOU SUPERIOR TO WOMEN IN EVERY WAY. YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY, SIR. NOW GO TO PRISON AND GET RAPED SO WE CAN IGNORE IT." - shawbin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5That's a Minnesotan accent you're doing, not someone from Wisconsin.
- dapperdrake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Actually, besides this, Wisconsin has a tradition of being very forward. The first kindergarten was started in Wisconsin. Stem Cell research was started by a professor in Madison. Also, a UW-Madison physicist invented the integrated circuit. I know that this is Digg and maybe the facts don't matter, but Wisconsin is a state entirely different from any other you might visit and you all should stop by sometime, at least Madison.
- dapperdrake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You guys need to come to Madison sometime. It's one of the nicest cities you'll find and has one of the best colleges around- UW-Madison.
- billybob476, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's like the government is trying to be their...BIG BROTHER!
(pun intended) - vegasbright, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Its wisonsin.
Wisconsin is like soviet Russia, only with a lot more poverty and alcoholism. - Nonsuch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Personal responsibility? What's that?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I married my "date rape" victim, so it's not all bad.
- CoolWind, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"The alcohol as rape argument is based on the reasoning that a woman who has consumed alcohol is incapable of making a rational decision... " That's only part of it. She may have made a rational decision NOT to have sex by saying NO, etc. But she may not have had enough energy and consciousness to put up a fight.
- raitchison, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Agreed, from TFA:
----------------------------------
Blanchard also stressed that the somewhat lower bar on consent standards for victims does not extend to perpetrators, who can be charged for crimes whether they have been drinking or not.
----------------------------------
In other words, if you've been drinking, consent to sex then later change your mind (or decide the guy pissed you off and you want to get even) you can't be held accountable for your actions, but if you have been drinking, and you have sex with someone else with their consent you can be hed accountable for not knowing that the person will regret it in the morning, or will regret it after you failed to call them back, or if you;ve broken up with them. - Bcalibur, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8I live in Milwaukee Wisconsin, so thank you state laws for giving me one more reason to get the ***** out of Wisconsin for college.
- lorensingley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@PAStheLoD - As long as she didn't say she was your girlfriend only when she was completely hammered :P
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I can't have sex with my drunk girlfriend or what? :)
- fatJohn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This is already a law in some states, one being Michigan.
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Not really true, we can also pay for it :D
- lorensingley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I assume you are including yourself in that category?
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Don't know, worth a trial maybe :D
- jamms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i've grown used to milwaukee and the weird laws in this state. overall it's a good place to live. see ya on brady st.
- PAStheLoD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah, that's true and sad, but this won't change that. If someone is too ashamed to report that she was raped, she is also ashamed to report that she was raped _while being drunk_...
- donolsen1155, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Doesn't seem like it compares to me.
Seems virtually impossible to slip a gal a case of beer without her knowing. - qwickone, on 10/12/2007, -3/+61) The spirit of it is to make sure guys don't take advantage of women they KNOW can't make judgement decisions.
2) Guys generally have to drink a lot more than women to become incapacitated. That's why men can drink more, pound for pound, than women to achieve the same BAC.
3) Excellent point that I totally agree with in the decision making aspect. I think they force you to be responsible for the driving decision, however, because you're more likely to hurt other (read: innocent) people by driving drunk than having sex drunk (unless you're full of STDs) - SilentPurity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Agreed I live in Upper Michigan, its the same way here. Without alcohol no one would have sex because everyone is so damned ugly.
- fjacky66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What if can barely Walk too?
- rbanffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What if I had sex with an ugly girl just because I was drunk? Can I call it date rape?
- jcronkhite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The best points made here on this topic so far! This is a law that was passed with a predetermined agenda. Where's the equal opportunity victim here? The only way to combat this is for those brave drunk males to sleep with the nastiest women in their local tavern, and then sue them for "rape", having them jailed. Send a message as to why this law is a crock of *****.
- hipstershaun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I agree a guy should not abuse a drunk girl, but what if he is to drunk to know better. Aren't they abusing each other. If they're both drunk they are both responsible for their own stupidity. If being drunk excuses her from common sense then it must excuse him as well... when they're both drunk. I've also seen it go the other way. Girl taking advantage of a drunk guy (unconscious in fact). If one is sober and the other isn't its rape. Otherwise it's consensual stupidity.
- 500freestyle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I'm pretty sure its always been that way, its just more defined now.
- Dundasbro, on 01/21/2009, -0/+2I think it depends, someone could intentionally make someone elses drink stronger in alchohol content in order to get them drunk faster without them noticing. Like several shots of vodka in someone's beer for example.
- Chimichanga, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It was made pretty clear that there was already a law that said if the 'victim' was unconscious it was sexual assault. So the new law doesn't affect your situation.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@CoolWind
I agree with your point of view, but its not relevant to the argument. It wasn't a rape because she was drunk; it was a rape because she said "no." Sure, the alcohol helped him overpower her, but its no different than a situation where the guy is just tougher.
The important situation here is the one where she gets drunk and says yes. - Tiabin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think the point he was getting at was that he had just been talking to her, and yet she pretty unpredictably blacked out. And thus... she was more ***** than he originally imagined.
- Chimichanga, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'd imagine that's where this part comes into play:
"Blanchard also stressed that the somewhat lower bar on consent standards for victims does not extend to perpetrators, who can be charged for crimes whether they have been drinking or not.
"Alcohol is not an excuse," he said. "It's our job to help jurors understand that people who want to commit sexual assault many times are going to take unfair advantage to get what they want."
It's a shame they didn't elaborate more on that, as it seems so obvious a question that they chose to ignore it. -
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