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- sbader, on 10/10/2007, -1/+240FTA:"From Michigan, Mr. Lampros recalled one comment that Mrs. Fernandez made during their meeting about why it was important for Indira to graduate. She couldn’t afford to pay for her to attend another senior prom in another senior year."
That statment is soooo f*ed up I don't even know where to begin. - shifty2, on 10/10/2007, -0/+131This is a sad story about a principal with no balls to fail a student who deserves it. Its all about numbers. Remember, each school gets a finite amount of funding. The more students fail, the more they have to dump money into re-educating failing students. Also, each school has to keep up with the percentage of pass vs. fail.
FTA: "They also describe a principal worried that the 2006 graduation rate of 72.5 percent would fall closer to 50 or 60 percent unless teachers came up with ways to pass more students."
Also, FTA: "Samantha Fernandez, Indira’s mother, spoke on her behalf. “My daughter earned everything she got,” she said. Of Mr. Lampros, she said, “He needs to grow up and be a man.”"
WTF is wrong with this woman? He was a man about it when he submitted her failing grade only to have the retard principal reverse the FAIL to PASS. the student, mother and principal... FAIL! - Tyrsson, on 10/10/2007, -4/+99This is a good story that is emblematic of much wider problems with grade inflation throughout the educational system. However, I am a bit concerned about how the media got the student's name for this story. Unless it was offered by the student and her family, there are some serious problems not only with the school's grading policy, but also with its protection of students' privacy.
- davecor, on 10/10/2007, -4/+77This is a result of the "Self Esteem" movement that decided that failing grades were so traumatic they had to be avoided at all costs.
I have worked with graduates from schools like these and they are very proud of how ignorant they are. Some actually get angry at people who know more than them and indignantly demand "How do you KNOW stuff like that?!?!?!" - airwalkery2k, on 10/10/2007, -0/+67That last quote tells you why we are even in this state of affairs.
"Samantha Fernandez, Indira’s mother, spoke on her behalf. 'My daughter earned everything she got,'she said. Of Mr. Lampros, she said, 'He needs to grow up and be a man.'"
I had a teacher that told me once it was mainly the fear of parents that scares schools away from having teachers, and toward treating their students like spoiled kids. Rather than teachers call home when little Bobby is failing, the parents will call the school and demand Bobby gets a better grade. Somehow, they get pressured into it by parents who treat their kids like princes and princesses. - Yez70, on 10/10/2007, -14/+77This really pisses me off. I was NOT a steady attender for my senior year classes. I went on review day and test day and ignored all homework. I was already accepted in the school of my choice and I was told homework was only 10% of my grade, attendance was NOT part of my grade. I read all the assigned chapters and participated in the review day discussions. I aced every test and exam. I was getting an A- in the classes.
They bored me, and since I was learning the material and proving I was doing so, I felt no need to spend 3-4 extra days a week in class watching the others struggle when I could be bettering myself in the library or learning different programming languages, on my own, in the computer lab.
Two weeks before graduation my government teacher (a required course) drug me into the principal's office to inform me I would fail my senior year if I missed one more class - even though I was getting an A- in the class already. They made a specific attendance policy that only applied to me apparently. I was no longer allowed to do my self studies and was banned from the library and computer lab for the remainder of the school year.
It's sad that the intelligent get punished and are not allowed to better themselves on their own, yet the struggling students get to pass with no effort other than attendance in class?!
I did attend government class for two weeks, and caught up on an extar hour of sleep every day though. :D - jonnypyro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+55"“My daughter earned everything she got,” she said. Of Mr. Lampros, she said, “He needs to grow up and be a man.”
yes. bc earning a failing grade and having someone else change it to passing makes her so much better. hella dugg - someant1114, on 10/19/2007, -0/+48The statements made by her mother near the end of the article are appalling
"Samantha Fernandez, Indira’s mother, spoke on her behalf. “My daughter earned everything she got,” she said. Of Mr. Lampros, she said, “He needs to grow up and be a man.”"
This person makes me sick. Your daughter didnt earn jack *****, and parents like you are the reason we have millions of ***** up useless kids running around. You need to grow up and realize education is VITAL in this day and age and that your daughter (as well as YOU) need to take responsibility for your actions. ***** the prom and ***** you. - Donald2007, on 10/10/2007, -0/+47Its also quite typical of the attitude of many parents today (their attitude being another reason our educational system is a terrible as it is...and getting worse)
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+45Seeing that I'm more than half way from getting my teaching degree, I find this article 100% relevant to me. It's just a prime example of how the education system in the United States, or in certain areas of it, is completely ***** up. Thankfully, I went to a high school that wasn't ruled by this type of administration. I remember a huge number of people who weren't allowed to go to the prom due to the fact that they didn't pass a certain test, or they didn't meet the educational requirements. I remember one parent complaining to the principal about how the prom was a right of passage for their daughter, and denying her that would mentally scar her. I think the girl actually failed a required graduating math course of all things. The principal didn't buy it, thank science.
- dygel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+44Here's the silver lining to the whole thing: thanks to the great elephant that are the Internets, this girl's actual failure is now a subject of personal record. So if she were ever to try to take up employment at some place of a higher calibre than, say, McDonalds, a manager could easily google up what a loser she is.
- Calcularius, on 10/10/2007, -0/+40Let's see how well she does on the math portion of her S.A.T.
- NoOneButMe, on 10/10/2007, -15/+49If the student's over 18 - and many senior's in high school are; especially one that had to repeat a grade, then the issue of privacy isnt really relevant.
- witcompe, on 10/10/2007, -13/+45Your rant about why you should not have to go to class, just proves what you are missing. Doing homework, classwork and attending class gets you ready for the professional world. Homework in school prepares you for the deadlines at work. Classwork and non-truancy prepares you for the day-to-day life at work. The grade does not matter except to prove that you know the subject. Knowledge of a subject is only half of what school teaches you. The rest is how to live and be a productive member of society. If you do not learn to suck it up and jump through the hoops, you will find that eventually there will be no hoops to jump through, and no pay-check.
Or to put it bluntly, there is a vast difference between knowledge and wisdom. While you may be very knowledgeable, you are not very wise. - qwertydvorak, on 10/10/2007, -0/+30another gem FTA: "Miss Fernandez meanwhile took the test and scored a 66, which still left her far short of a 65 average for the semester. Nonetheless, Mr. Arocho tried to enter a passing mark for her. When he had to relent after objections by the teachers’ union representative, Mr. Lampros was allowed to put in the failing grade. Ms. Geiger promptly reversed it. Samantha Fernandez, Indira’s mother, spoke on her behalf. “My daughter earned everything she got,” she said. Of Mr. Lampros, she said, “He needs to grow up and be a man.”
he needs to grow up and be a man ? the mother needs to grow up and maybe backhand some sense into her daughter while she is at it. - jem522, on 10/10/2007, -1/+29I know someone who just retired from this high school. She was so disgusted with the way students acted. Many students would leave for long periods of time to visit their family's home country and be shocked that she would fail them. So, this is true and I'm digging it to make sure people see this galling example of entitlement thinking/complacency/faciliation.
- dlmaher, on 10/10/2007, -0/+28I teach high school, primarily sophomores, so when I have a senior it is usually someone who has to pass to graduate. The only pressure I have ever felt is to make sure I am in regular communication with the parents of any senior in danger of failing. The issue is not to make them pass (other then legitimate pedagogy, encouraging and helping them to do better), but to make sure parents are not taken by surprise the week before graduation. Every time I hear a story like this one I am glad I teach where I do
- NSMike, on 10/10/2007, -3/+27Welcome to the No Child Left Behind education system, folks. This story is exactly what that ideal breeds - the truly gifted are overlooked and the students who could care less about their education are rewarded for spurning it. I fear for our country's future when these slouches enter the work force.
- smpx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+25She has no reason to take the S.A.T.s. Last I checked, degrees are not required for Walmart employees. She would, even with her limited math skills, have no problems deducing that the number on her welfare check is higher than zero-- what she earned.
- Takalth, on 10/10/2007, -2/+23I have to disagree on this. People who show up to class, do very little, and get acceptable grades are the reason why so many people expect to be able to show up at work, do very little, and keep their job.
My school days were about 15% useful stuff, 40% useless but mandatory stuff (like listening to the teachers tell me stuff I already knew), and 45% reading various novels. School taught me how to show up for work and not work. Fortunately, my parents taught me how to work, but I'd hardly say that public school prepares you to be a decent employee. - shifty2, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21if parents are complaining that schools and the educational system are failing, they need to stand up as parents and do the right thing... get more involved with their kids and THEY should help their own kids learn more. The way I see it and do it with my child, is that i get involved with his schooling as much or more than his teachers. I re-enforce what they teach and add just enough more to help him get good grades and succeed.
Parents who blame educational systems on their kids bad grades shouldnt look into pointing fingers at the schools, but rather look in the mirror for the real solution. - chinesedewey, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22Did you even read the article?
Spoiler alert: The student was a she. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21People don't quit jobs, they quit managers. With management as ***** by the pricinpal and assistant principal I wouldn't expect the guy to caer much about the job. The same thing happens in every profession. You shouldn't blame the teacher for giving a *****, being smacked down and then not giving a *****. You should blame the administration of the school.
- BESTenemy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+20They lower the passing grades so more kids can pass - more kids pass, the school looks goods, and the IQ of the country slips another 2 or 3 points. And pretty soon all you'll need to get into college is a pencil. Got a pencil? Then get in there, it's physics!
- George Carlin
Complete transcript can be found here:
http://war-on-morons.skynetblogs.be/post/4788812/george-carlin-and-vested-interests--the-real- - ruyz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+20how is this legal? i pay an arm and a leg to go to school, and when they're gone i bust my ass to pass. wtf
- Neiby, on 10/10/2007, -2/+21No kidding. This bitch is a ***** stain on society. She's going to "graduate" and then end up having eight kids and live on welfare for the rest of her life. What a total waste of oxygen.
- adb44, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19At some point the student has shown a complete lack of interest in actually completing the requirements for graduation, and we have to ask what the point of sending her back through would be. Did she learn her lesson? From the mother's statements, almost certainly not. So now she's out in the world, no decent college will accept her and she'll most likely flunk out of anywhere that does, and she'll be outqualified out of any job by someone who actually gives a crap. The school does her no particular favor by letting her graduate with a phony diploma, and though it must be infuriating for the teacher, maybe she's better off on her own. You can only lead the horse to water.
- NoOneButMe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+18I was talking to an old teacher of mine sometime during the last week of high school before I graduated (this previous June) - he was discussing the version of this policy that my school has and said that students cant get below a 55 for the first 3 quarters because the school wants to have the illusion that the student can still pass for the year - (((55 * 3) + 95) / 4) = 65. But in the 4th quarter, the teacher can give the student the grade they deserve - anywhere from a 0 to a 100.
- bunger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18You think this is bad? It goes on all the way to the very top. College, graduate school, doctorates.. I dare say that the teacher in this story (who, I notice, missed an awful lot of work for his first year), should have known this was coming well before starting the school year.
You want better teachers and more rigorous standards? Pay them better than 35k/year. At that rate, most of them rightly feel like underpaid babysitters. - jdh24, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16This is political correctness run wild. We don't want to 'hurt anyone's feelings' or face a lawsuit or risk a bad report card for the overall school, so they pass people who do not deserve it. The entire school system needs to be revamped and we need a paradigm shift in government services.
- jonnypyro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16thats completely off from this article. if you read right, you noticed she DIDNT get failed bc the teacher didnt like her. he was failed bc shes an effin moron
- Damphair, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16From the article, it sounded like the teacher's union opposed passing the student.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16or my personal favorite.
"She couldn’t afford to pay for her to attend another senior prom in another senior year."
Sums up the student's mindset of school. - someant1114, on 10/10/2007, -0/+15The statements made by her mother near the end of the article are appalling
"Samantha Fernandez, Indira’s mother, spoke on her behalf. “My daughter earned everything she got,” she said. Of Mr. Lampros, she said, “He needs to grow up and be a man.”"
This person makes me sick. YOU NEED TO GROW UP AND BE A MOTHER. Your daughter didnt earn anything except a FAILURE because she FAILED. Parents like you are the reason we have millions of ***** up useless kids running around. You need to grow up and realize education is VITAL in this day and age and that your daughter (as well as YOU) need to take responsibility for your actions. You make me sick.
Sorry for the double post, I tried to edit the above one to be less abrasive but it gave me a error and posted the wrong one - mishabear, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15You pay for an education, not a diploma. If you want the education, study. If you want a diploma, earn it or buy it on the Internet.
- kdepa, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16Seriously? I hate the NCLB program just as much as the next person, but that has literally nothing to do with what happened here. Grow up.
- completerobot, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16Ugh. I hate New York City public schools.
- prammy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16I had a failing grade in one of the mock exams my school does before the final. It was an indian school and since the same exam is done on the same day by all CBSE schools across india and the middle east, my school gives us mock exams to prepare us for the real thing.
The exam papers are later sent to be graded to a random school somewhere in India so that parent politics does not affect how the papers are graded. The process is time consuming and it around a month before we know if we passed or failed.
If a student fails the mock exam, parents are called and they are told that their child needs to improve by the second mock exam or else the child may not be able to sit for the finals.
I worked my ass off and got good grades in the second mock exam and a good grade in the finals as well. - ConservoHippie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Then you didn't RTFA. The Teacher's union was defending all that was good (failing students who deserve it).
- lifeandtimes, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13When I was in high school (~2000) our school district implemented a set of standardized tests they called CRTs. You took them in all your major courses, like math, science, english, or history. They were each 5 questions and you took around five throughout each semester. Now, these CRTs were added on top of any normal homework or tests the department had already planned. The thing about them was that if you failed just 1 out of 5 during the semester you automatically failed the class even if your actual grade percentage for everything else was over 100%. BUT, if you did absolutely nothing, but passed all 5 CRTs...you automagically passed the class with a D-. Same thing as this I guess. What baffles me is how anyone could come up with an idea like this or what my school district did. How exactly is it supposed to help students?
- Dush, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14I wish when people like that principal use federal law or any law as an excuse the journalist would actually ask what law they are referring to.
- mbelleghem, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Rrrrgh, this raises some old demons. I taught at the university level for a number of years, and on a number of occasions had papers that I marked as 'fail' bumped up to a pass based on the student complaining to a sympathetic dept head or course coordinator. Very frustrating, especially when I knew what the student was capable of and what the standard of work was across the other students in the subject. I clearly recall rather heatedly exclaiming 'what exactly does one have to do to fail around here?' on one occasion. The defense offered was that finishing university with a 50-odd average grade meant that student would never go on to any further education, but still, I felt it devalued the qualifications of every student who worked their asses off - and there were plenty of those. One of the reasons I decided against a teaching career.
This was at one of the very best universities in the world, too.
Needless to say, it was frustrating - but it gives you something to think about next time you're interviewing someone and you're wondering if you should check their transcripts. Good marks may be hard to get, but bad ones ain't. - AxeSwinger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11If what you describe is really true then skip HS altogether; get a GED (which should be a breeze), CLEP out of lower division university classes and start your Masters and PhD. If you not taking these steps then shut up go to class and help your fellow students understand the course material rather than being an immature prat.
You don't need a HS diplomas to attend college and you don't need a Bachelors to enter a Masters program. - dlmaher, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Makes sense... other then that fact that the only place the union entered that story was in supporting Lampros' right to give the grade he felt was fair. It was union rules that prevented the AP from changing the grade in the first place. Unfortunately unions cannot change "educational policy" and thus could not stop the principal from changing the grade. You are blaming the wrong folks here.
- jem522, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12Please forgive my mis-spelling - facilitation.
- jkizzle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11hell, its even that way in college. im an architecture student, and my freshman year we had three people fail an essential that obviously did not belong in the profession. sure enough, two of them talked to some higher ups and not only passed, but RECIEVED AN A! --based on their attendance record and completion of work (regardless of the merit of the work).
now, i dont mean to say the entire education system is screwed, but theres definitly gaping holes for the slugs to crawl through - boo19, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10I love hearing about that kind of thing. "Mentally scar her"? Maybe she should have applied her tiny, under-utilised brain and thought of that before she failed her ***** math class.
- boo19, on 10/10/2007, -7/+17This girl and her mother - the two of them need to be taken out and shot.
- Caleb83, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Someone who sucks this much probably doesn't have much interest in the SATs or college. I mean for someone who skips school this much. Plus, her parents clearly cannot pay for another prom, why would they be able to afford college?
- got-haggis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10most of the time, stuff like this has nothing to do with "political correctness" that is plain stupid. One of my friends teaches school in Baltimore City and like many other cities, they are forced to pass people that don't show up to class the majority of the time. Is it because they don't want to hurt anyones feelings? No, it is largely due to the administration not wanting to look bad, thanks to the No Child Left Behind sham. Even worse, teachers are forced to teach subjects other than their own! What do I mean by this? Whenever standardized test time comes around, all teachers in the school are forced (by the administration) to teach "to the test" regardless of what their normal subject may be. Again, this is so they don't get fired and can still make their INSANE salaries. City school administrators get paid way too much imho.
For a real education on city schools, watch the 4th season of The Wire. It is dead on how things are in Baltimore. -
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