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- smackywentz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21My sister is a just recently became a mormon, coming from our family which is made up of mostly nonreligious people, so it's a very big deal. What I don't get is she claims it has made her a better person and all, but to be honest with you she has never been more unhappy and more of a bitch than she is now. Which leads me to my question because I have now met a number of mormons and they all have the same air about them. Why do you people think you are better than everyone else? You do, you really do, you think you are the only right way and anyone who utters a curse word, like *****, or buys something on Sunday, is some heathen from the nether-world. It's ridiculous.
- Jorlwind, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16My Grandpa was a Mormon, and close to becoming a church leader. It didn't take some great realization or science to convert him from the faith.
The damn bishop sold him a bad fridge and wouldn't give him a refund. - laika333, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13Joseph Smith was called a prophet...
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb - wageslaven, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Ive dugg you up. I think its important that we have an _actual mormon_ around to answer some questions. I hope others dont reflexively bury you because you professed to be a theist.
Can you take a moment and answer these couple questions?
A) Do you believe Joseph Smith as contacted by an eternal, conscience being and given a tome?
Ala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Plates?
B) Being that the Abrahamic God delivered a New Testament to the America First Nations, why was no record of the faith/teachings, or of "reformed egyption" retained? Where did that go?
- and the kicker -
C) Being that Joseph Smith was convicted of being a disorderly person, and an agitator for reformation in the fundamentalist church of the time, would it be more likely that he was a liar?
and D) Being that their is no proof of any part of Abrahamic faiths, why should Smith's additional mythology be accepted? Say, the rest of the Apocryphal Books, or the mythology of Muhammad? Are you cherry picking the mythology you accept on faith and arbitrarily ignoring other, equally supported testimonies? - 89vision, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10"I remember writing an in-depth paper at BYU about the Mormon persecution in Missouri and discovering that the evidence suggested that the reasons they were driven out of town had nothing to do with their religion, and everything to do with their arrogance, pugnacity, unwillingness to associate with the other townsfolk, and the huge voting bloc that they represented, giving them near absolute power over local political matters."
Then they left Missouri and the same problem exists in Utah today. Growing up in suburban Salt Lake City most of the kids in my neighborhood were all mormon and their parents wouldn't let them come to my house to play simply for the fact that my family didn't believe what they did. Ive met a few good mormons, but most of them are the most self-righteous, arrogant people I have ever met. - Dougman82, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10I've been a Mormon my whole life, and I know firsthand what you are talking about with the self-righteous jackass nature that so many Mormons have. One reason why I dislike living in Utah. It was nicer to live in Houston where most people were Southern Baptists.
I don't have any beef with Mormonism with respect to Christianity in general - my problem is more on the side of God himself. I'm pretty sure that God exists, but the lack of any role in my life makes it hard to believe that He cares about any of us. It really hurts to grow up believing that God is this or that, only to see that in real life it really doesn't apply...
@jorlwind - no offense, but your Grandpa is a freakin' bitch. McDonald's screwed up my order yesterday - I guess I'll never go to McDonald's again... - smackywentz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10Speaking of hell, read the Satan Delusion on this same blog. ( http://secularskeptic.blogspot.com/2007/05/satan-delusion.html ) His view of it makes it seem like hell is probably the better choice anyway. Either way it's a perspective I never thought of.
- TritonX, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9Mormons are not the only one to believe they are better person because they have faith. But hey, we are going to spend the eternity in hell, so at least they won't bother us there. When they make their leap of faith they become illogical and will believe everything their preachers feeds them. I have to admit that sometimes I envy people who can just ignore everything logical and put their future in the hands of others, shouldn't that be a relief, no more moral judgment to make, everything is fed to you through the great book, you don't even need to understand it, just repeat it, and you have the ultimate argument on your side "god did it, or god want it, or god told me to"
- smackywentz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5One question I have for thiests of the non-mormon persuasion, is why they think it is so impossible for Joseph Smith to have been contacted by a spirit of some form, but the idea that Moses was is just like a ***** fact.
Also could someone explain the _underlines_ around words of importance I have seen lately? - BLueSS, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@smackywentz
Non-Mormon theists who believe the Bible don't believe Joseph Smith's account was credible due to the fact that it contradicts stuff previously written in the Bible. - wageslaven, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Youve clearly never met an Arab Muslim or a Jew of any nationality. Being in the favor of God does wonders for your humility.
/sarcasm. - br549, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Take off those stupid mormon bifocals. Everything you see is being distorted by them.
http://www.utlm.org/ - AnteChronos, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7@dougman82
"my problem is more on the side of God himself. I'm pretty sure that God exists, but the lack of any role in my life makes it hard to believe that He cares about any of us."
Not that I'm trying to convince you of anything, but God lacking any role in your life can be explained in two ways: First, it could be that the nature of God is completely different from what you expect it to be (which seems to be you current stance). Second, it could be that there is no God at all. Personally, I think that option B makes more sense. I mean, if your choices are between an indifferent God and no God at all, with no real method to determine which is correct, its much simpler to just go with 'no God at all' and move on to the next issue. - deepdiggdude, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Carnitine,
Isn't the truth beautiful? And to think of all the children who, as we speak, are being taught to fear, to cower from myths, to look away from the light. How many of them will be lost forever? How many young minds will be trapped by the teachings of those who, themselves, were unable to escape the prison of religion? How many can we save from God?
I celebrate your awakening and I encourage you to apply your missionary skills to enlightening the youth of our world. Tell them that it's safe to let go. Tell them that love and compassion are not the privilege of the faithful. Tell them that curiosity and skepticism are rewarded in the real world. Tell them that life is awesome and precious. Tell them that the meaning that they give there own lives will always be more sublime than the meaning others insist they observe. Tell them to think, not to pray,- to learn, not accept, - to insist on evidence, not to rely on faith. - Dougman82, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2@wageslaven: This is a little difficult as I find myself doubting my faith these days. I will answer these questions according to what faith I have left. You see, I don't doubt for any doctrinal points of the church... I guess I am angry with God for whatever role He is or is not playing in my life. Kind of a weird situation, I guess. Basically, these are my answers based on the faith that I have - but I would not be willing to give my life defending them...
A) Yes, Joseph Smith was contacted by God and Jesus, as well as an angel that led him to a tome.
B) The Gospel given to the early American nations was simply forgotten. Look at the state the American Indians were in when the early European settlers came across the ocean. They were spiritualists with little or no written records. Some held on to legends such as Quetzacoatl (sp?) that many Mormons attribute to Jesus' visit after His resurrection. The Book of Mormon holds that at the decline of the civilization, the "believers" were hunted down and killed.
C) That certainly does make sense. However, just look at first-person accounts of people in and out of the church that knew him. Most state that he was a just man. Also, look at the Book of Mormon - I don't care how good a liar you are - that is quite the piece of literature to just fabricate.
D) That is simply according to revelation given to Smith. He claimed that God let him know what was "true" and not - that the Apocryphal books are mostly true, but also contain a lot of fiction, that the Q'uran as also initially good, but changed over hundreds of years, and that the Bible itself is true, though not without its errors through transcription and translation. Smith basically taught what he said God told him.
