What is Digg?316 Comments
- SPARTACVS, on 10/10/2007, -14/+105Saying it has better fillrates than the Gamecube isn't saying much.
- h0ly, on 10/10/2007, -11/+92There's a little gem in there, a much more valuable comment than the original forum post:
"Julian Eggebrecht (CEO Factor 5)
Yes. I'm so disappointed knowing exactly what the Wii can do -- and I still think nobody knows it better than we (no pun intended) [laughs]. I really have to say, boy, am I disappointed! They all have finally figured out, five years into the hardware's life cycle, how to do at least basic shaders and a rim light, but that's what everybody does.
But I still don't see enough bump and normal-mapping, if any. I still don't see enough post effects, although you would have insane fill-rates with Wii. I don't see any of that. I was digging out Rebel Strike the other day and was looking at it, and we had some people who were visiting ask, "Why isn't anybody else doing this on Wii?" And I am at a loss. I really am." - Kenelm, on 10/10/2007, -17/+94It's actually far better than Xbox or PS2 graphics, but it's still far below what the PS3 or Xbox 360 are capable of. So it's neither last nor next gen, it's in between.
- HenvY, on 10/10/2007, -4/+70Wow, the wii has better graphics than the gamecube? Someone give the R&D team a pay rise.
- letdowntourist, on 10/10/2007, -7/+73This article says absolutely nothing about actual graphics processing power. Its arguments include "well its predecessors could, so it obviously can" and "who can say, based on the small library of early games we've seen so far." There was no debunking, no testing, just unfounded statements, speculation, and screen captures.
Worthless. - crackedplastic, on 10/10/2007, -10/+75I agree that the Wii is underrated; however, this article honestly doesn't explain anything.
- miglaugh, on 10/10/2007, -7/+63"...better than the Gamecube could."
Was that ever in question? yikes. - HA5TY, on 10/10/2007, -39/+95As you can see by the number of Wiis sold, Graphics aren't the main reason people by game consols
- SlamShut, on 10/10/2007, -15/+53Wow. A breathless recounting of pie-in-the-sky hardware specs. Too bad the games still look like *****.
- reddevil3, on 10/10/2007, -19/+57So far the Wii hasn't produced anything which is better than the Xbox (though Mario Galaxy will change that). In fact all of the current (and most of the upcoming games) could be easily handled on the Gamecube.
It is true though...the Wii can't produce graphically-intensive Xbox games like Chaos Theory and Chronicles Of Riddick. - jmask5, on 10/10/2007, -16/+52Mario Galaxy is a beautiful game s is Super Smash Brothers. The thing is the reason no one is doing this is because they are lazy ass developers who want to make a quick buck so then they can use that money and go crazy on the PS3 and Xbox 360. Have fun bitches but don't come crawling back when no one buys your stuff and need to squeeze more money out of the wii. I feel sorry for the idiots who buy some of these games though like Alien Syndrome for example what a Joke,
- lacronicus, on 10/10/2007, -7/+38take a look at assassins creed or crysis and tell me that again. more power does not necessarily mean shinier textures.
- Kreigster, on 10/10/2007, -8/+38ok, no more argument, the wii is capable of last-generation graphics.
- LoompaOompa, on 10/10/2007, -1/+30It doesn't. They look exactly the same.
- bustaballs, on 10/10/2007, -2/+30Because you need your eyes checked. They look the damn same.
- sugarhigh4242, on 10/10/2007, -7/+35This is clearly a fanboy piece. I'm not an expert in graphics coding, but even I know a lot of this is pure garbage. My problems are especially with #2 and #4.
#2: Graphics Voodoo
Total strawman. No one would argue that Wii can't perform "fill rate calculations" because that term has no meaning at all. And fillrate is a lousy measure of modern graphics hardware. When Nvidia released their Geforce3 in 2001, they had inferior fillrate compared to the previous Geforce2 series. Similar to clockspeed in the CPU market, fillrate is no longer a useful figure in determining GPU performance.
And it is a fact that the Wii's Hollywood GPU does not have Pixel Shader hardware. The Gamecube had a technology called "TEV" on its graphics hardware. It is assumed that ATI developed an advanced version of this technology for the Wii. Only official Wii licensees really know what the new TEV is capable of, and this information is NDA'd. On the Gamecube, these units were more similar to hardware T&L units on Geforce2-era GPUs. They had built-in operations available to programmers, and offered limited programability.
Pixel shaders are capable of running custom applications. There is no reason to believe Hollywood supports programmable pixel units, whether they are called "shaders", "TEV" or any other name.
As for specific techniques such as "Self-shadowing" and "light scattering", any CPU is capable of any graphical effect you can imagine. However, without dedicated graphics hardware, these effects are likely to bring the system to a crawl. Is the Wii capable of self-shadowing? Yeah, but nowhere near what we're seeing from 360, PS3, and modern PCs. Any limited implementation in Wii software is going to be used in very small doses.
#4: Physics
The poster starts with a youtube video "proving" Wii's powerful Physics potential. The video is a lousy demo of next-gen physics. It consists entirely of rigid body collisions. The PS2 and Xbox would be capable of running the same demo. The 'new hotness' in physics is soft body dynamics. Soft body physics involves non-rigid objects like cloth, water, fire, hair, Jell-O, etc. You don't see any of that here.
The poster than points to the fact that AGEIA offers a middleware option for the Wii. This fact is absolutely meaningless. Middleware providers have to provide solutions for all hardware. For instance, AGEIA also offers a mobile version of the PysX tech for Cell phones.
Several PSP games have HAVOK physics. But no one is comparing Killzone Liberation to Motorstorm.
Bottom Line: People who think Wii is the same as Gamecube or PS2 are going to eat crow as future Wii games are clearly more advanced. However, the Wii cannot be considered in the same technology "generation" as Xbox360 or PS3. Nothing on the Wii will ever be able to rival even the launch titles for the proper next-gen consoles. Wii fanboys, such as the one who wrote this post need to accept this an stop hoping developers will unlock some hidden CPU Nintendo forgot to mention.
- catharz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+29With the current crop of games, I'd say the Wii is over-rated, but massively under-utilised.
When developers get off their lazy asses and put some work into stretching the Wii's capabilities, then it'll match my expectations.
As it is, my Wii will continue to gather dust until I see something that has the following:
- Controls that are more than tacked-on waggle
- More depth than mini-game after mini-game
- Graphics that makes it look better than my PS2 games did
Until I see games that achieve all of the above, I won't be buying them. - Angmar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+26The Wii's architecture is very similar to the Gamecube's.
- afx1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+26you, sir, have no idea what you're talking about
- lordmetroid, on 10/10/2007, -3/+27Even the Gamecube was better than the PS2 graphic wise at the end. Resident Evil 4's graphics had to be downgraded for PS2 from what I heard.
- afreytes, on 10/10/2007, -7/+29I wouldn't blame developers, but business suits who thought the Wii was fail. These are the same business suits who, after adding a "Wii" column in their Excel spreadsheets, are startled to realize that even if they produce the ***** game they will still make some dough off it. So, off they go, rough riding developers asses to get games out the door as quickly as possible, never mind if its unoptimized or graphically subpar. If it looks more or less like Wii Sports it's done.
In this respect, the Wii is a victim of it's own success... - noahhoward, on 10/10/2007, -30/+51Really not sure what the big deal is so the PS3 and 360 give you better graphics, every new console has been giving better graphics, Nintendo finally did something new and different, the graphics are at a point where I could care less if they got any better. If I want more realism I'll go outside. I don't care about the texturing on the rock at the bottom of a pond that has nothing to do with the game, why would I need more graphics power.
- imikedaman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22Wow, it's like the guy recently figured out what a compiler was and wanted to find a way to sound smart using the term.
- loganhid, on 10/10/2007, -17/+38Far Cry Vengeance FTW
- manbearpigm16, on 10/10/2007, -11/+31Dugg down for being a forum post.
- louiedog, on 10/10/2007, -9/+28I'd rather have a beautiful looking game that was a lot of fun than an ugly game that was a lot of fun. It's not like the 360 and PS3 are selling games based solely on the graphics. Movies should be about story, plot, acting, direction, etc. but no one would have seen Transformers if the robots had polygon counts of around 50. Great graphics aren't necessary, but they're a major part of the experience.
- catharz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+18With the graphical quality (or lack of) in most Wii games?
Personally, the Gamecube looked better than most Wii games I've seen so far. - ramshaw, on 10/10/2007, -6/+23I don't give a ***** if it can do amazing graphics. If no one is using the horsepower whats the point?
- fishbeef33, on 10/10/2007, -2/+19When I was in high school I only ever bought Sega Genesis games and outright refused to play SNES unless I was tied down to a chair. Then I got to college and realized that fanboys are stupid. Who cares what system you have as long as it has games you like?
- gfunk84, on 10/10/2007, -7/+22Nintendo GameCube was cheapest last gen, and it didn't sell the most.
- Shirleycakes, on 10/10/2007, -5/+20Apparently. Lots of people are under the impression that the Wii uses the same (if not cheapened) video technology as the Gamecube. I don't know how this rumor started but I'm glad SOMEBODY in development has clarified.
- dysonlu, on 10/10/2007, -10/+24If I wanted to swing my racquet at a ball, I would hit the tennis court. If I wanted throw a ball towards some pins, I would do it on a bowling alley. Now, why the heck are you trying to do those things with that Wii controller standing in front of your TV set?!
- mywhitenoise, on 10/10/2007, -7/+21They buy it for the hype.
I saw some guy glazing over Harry Potter at EB games, and he asked the manager "Excuse me, I know the Wii will look good on an HDTV like that, but will it look okay on a regular TV."
The nerdy part of me answered for the manager and said "Are you looking at the same screen that I am? The Wii isn't even in HD." - OpCzar, on 10/10/2007, -7/+21"16xQ AA, and I still get 70 to 100 FPS @ 1600x1200."
No need to show us your e-dick. - b3mus3d, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16Nintendo sure has an awful lot of fanboys, if that's the case :P
I don't seem to remember there being shortage issues with the Gamecube... where were the fanboys back then? - CReyes4182, on 10/10/2007, -6/+20You know you got a problem when most of the games on your current gen system don't meet the graphical standards set by your previous system :/
- s1mph0ny, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16972 mega pixels fill rate. The Original Xbox could do 932 mega pixels fill rate, and this was november 2001, not 2006. The Gamecube which was also released november 2001 rendered only 648 mega pixels.
So yeah, the Wii is better than the gamecube, nobody said it wasn't. It isn't any more next-gen then the Xbox was however. - Iam9376, on 10/10/2007, -6/+19Yeah! It's a wonder why the cheapest of the three consoles is selling the most!
- EXreaction, on 10/10/2007, -8/+21Why is everybody burying you?
People buy consoles because they are FUN. - Synn, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17Nobody made the claim that the Wii is on the graphical level of the 360 or PS3, kiddo.
- Tishiablo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14Didn't Doom 3 appear on the Xbox? ...
- imikedaman, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17Which is exactly the same amount I paid for ambitious titles like God of War 2 and Halo 2. Paying the same amount of money for a mini game compilation with significantly worse graphics is a little extreme if you ask me.
- KyleMistry, on 10/10/2007, -9/+21So very true. I bought into the hype at launch, and boy, do I regret it. It was basically a payment for an overpriced port of Twilight Princess.
The games so far are gimmicky, mini-game collections, or GameCube ports, and I'd rather not spend money on MORE Mario. The new Metroid looks pretty good, and so does Brawl, but that's about it for the next year.
So, now I'm selling my Wii. PS3 is starting to pick up in games, so I'll just spend money on that instead. - s1mph0ny, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14It depends on the texture detail. Very few games actually did render 720p and 1080i. Enter the Matrix was one of them.
- StateofMind09, on 10/10/2007, -18/+29Well the fact of the matter is that Wii games don't look good, and nothing shown so far looks impressive* graphically. It's a trend that will continue until people stop buying the Wii because it's $250 and start realizing what Nintendo is really offering right now. Basically, it's a new controller...and that's it.
*impressive in this case would just be better than last-gen. - imikedaman, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14You mean the Wii is a victim of its own marketing. They pushed innovation and smaller, more simplistic games, and they certainly got the second half. Too bad smaller games didn't equate to smaller price tags.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Here's the source:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/762/762984p1.html - Bkaufman, on 10/10/2007, -6/+15I love my wii, but the graphics are inferior to the other two consoles. Don't know why the fanboys won't just acknowledge this and move on. i have my wii for the awesome new controller that my girlfriend and my friends love, plus the exclusives, and i have my PC for graphic goodness. Best of both worlds.
- rebuilder, on 10/10/2007, -8/+17Fanboys...
Seriously, the amount of energy these people put into defending their pet console/phone/doodad and putting down every other similar object under the sun boggles the mind. If their toys are really that great, shouldn't they be playing with them instead of starting endless flamewars? - Holyfield, on 10/10/2007, -5/+14I could not care less about fill rate or normal mapping.
All I know is that Wii games just look like crap on my 1080p LCD, not because the lack of advanced shading effects or stuff like that, its because of the low sd output resolution the Wii produces. No Developer will be ever able to fix that. -
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