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278 Comments
- secaedelcielo, on 11/14/2008, -6/+128Pushing the limits of capitalistic greed... ):
- dngermouse, on 11/14/2008, -4/+110They already earn billions a year, used games are the only way i buy games for the wii because i don't want to pay 50-60 bucks for a crappy port, corporate bastards. What happened to all the promised game support for the wii? as an owner i feel cheated and disappointed. I mean look at all the games coming out for the ps3/360 this winter. What do wii owners get? a ***** cheerleader sim? ***** off..
- rovai, on 11/14/2008, -3/+90What a waste, looks like, in the long run, there's gonna be a heck of a lot more junk in the landfills. I guess this will eventually effect the rental market too.
- MidnightRIder77, on 11/14/2008, -4/+81This is such *****. Every other market (cars, clothes, instruments etc.) have had people selling sell used items for years and have accepted the fact that once someone buys something, it's theirs and they can do whatever the hell they want with it. People in the game industry need to get the ***** over themselves and accept that.
- daveisfera, on 11/14/2008, -1/+76Sadly, until we stop buying into this type of thing, it won't stop.
- chaosblade77, on 11/14/2008, -5/+66You'd think they would just listen to their customers.
1. Sell the game for what it's worth. Some games are fun enough and have the replay value to be worth $60. A lot of popular shooters are good examples of this, they remain popular until something better comes along, and even then they still don't die off immediately. A game like Mirror's Edge, regardless of how fun it is while you play it, just isn't worth the $60 price tag considering it's so short and has little replay value.
2. Strive for replay value, even in single player games. Give people a reason NOT to trade in the game. If your game is 15 hours long and someone has no reason to pick it up and play it again after beating it the first time, why wouldn't they sell it or trade it in? Publishers expect gamers to just let a game sit on their shelf and collect dust, or trade it for cash?
3. Sell games for less. The #1 reason the used game market and game rentals thrives is obvious. Just listen to the people who consistently buy used games. The reasoning behind it is always price. Granted used games will always be cheaper, if publishers can force competitive pricing between new and used games, as well as offer these incentives, more people will probably be willing to buy new games. - aimhelix, on 11/14/2008, -1/+44Dear Nintendo,
You used to be cool.
:( - CaptCarrot, on 11/14/2008, -5/+43What happens when Chevy, Ford and Chrysler realize that people sometimes sell their cars after driving them without using a dealership as a middleman?
- RainNIU, on 11/14/2008, -0/+36So this is basically DRM for something that you physically purchase?
***** them. - Zippo, on 11/14/2008, -2/+36What the ***** Nintendo.
NO. - sliksta, on 11/14/2008, -10/+37Just who do these bastards think they are? May they burn in hell.
- ELCad, on 11/14/2008, -2/+29Wii Speak is a game?
- sliksta, on 11/14/2008, -6/+32Yeah, if you say so. Then again, no.
If you BUY a game, it is YOURS. You should be free to SELL it. And why the ***** should we care about the developers? Don't the game companies make enough money already? Ninendo sure as hell does. Don't support their greed. - cawpin, on 11/14/2008, -2/+26This practice has to be illegal. They are taking away your right to sell something you buy. I know there are laws against this.
- FallenTurtles, on 11/14/2008, -0/+24It's good to know I'm not the only one who's going to buy All Star Cheer Squad! Go team!
- chocula78, on 11/14/2008, -0/+24It's good to know that I am not the only angry Wii owner out there.
- EtherGnat, on 11/14/2008, -0/+23Apparently video game producers and some Diggers want to overturn the first sale doctrine, which has been a legally protected concept for at least 100 years. This isn't an issue new to videogames; it's been argued about over books, music, movies, and other creative properties.
"The first-sale doctrine is a limitation on copyright that was recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1908 and subsequently codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109. The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained. That means that copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy end once that copy is sold, as long as no additional copies are made. This doctrine is also referred to as the "first sale rule" or "exhaustion rule"." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_sale - doctechnical, on 11/14/2008, -4/+25"From the point of view of a game producer, there is no difference between a person buying a used game, and a person pirating the game."
A point of view that is patently absurd. If I borrow a book from a library, is that equivilent to my stealing it from Borders?
I'm not going to preach about greed because I believe, like Gordon Gecko, "Greed is good". But don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining, they're not doing this out of any kind of moral standing, they just wanna squeeze out as many bucks as possible. And as a consumer I can take it or leave it; I don't by DRMed music and I sure as ***** won't buy games with this sort of protection built in.
Somehow the movie industry has struggled by with a huge secondary market renting their works (Netflix, anyone?), I don't think the used games market is gonna kill video games. - inactive, on 11/14/2008, -2/+21I buy games. I play games. I beat games. I sell those games to buy new games. It's the circle of pseudo life and Nintendo is f*cking that up. Let us do what we waWnt.
- giddytonk, on 11/14/2008, -1/+17Don't buy it.
- Heyu8myrice, on 11/14/2008, -1/+17Looks like the price of used games are gona fall even further...
- kzrystof, on 11/14/2008, -1/+15I agree. We really should boycott those things. If we don't, they'll push this practice a little further...
- FlareHeart, on 11/14/2008, -2/+16So if I start up a car company, can I make it against my company's policy to then sell my cars used? No, because that is unethical and unfair.
I can understand why the gaming companies feel like they are getting screwed, but so is ANY other corp that has products that can be sold used. Get Over It! Used game (and any other product for that matter) sales are going to happen. It is a fact of the free market. Go Away and let me buy my used games in peace. At least I am buying it...or would you rather me pirate them? If this continues I will switch from part-time pirate to full-time pirate. - peestandingup, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12The Wii has officially derailed. Mine just sits there collecting dust now & taunting me of what might have been had Nintendo not made so many stupid mistakes, especially regarding online play.
- apackofmonkeys, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12@Harabeck:
They made the product, then sold it. After that, they don't have that piece of plastic anymore. They got what they deserved, payment for one new game.
They don't sell the "experience". If you broke your game and called them up, would they give you a new one? No, they'd say "We sold you a plastic disc and you broke it, *****, we don't care that you didn't get to experience the last half of the game". But then you turn around and claim that they somehow have rights that extend past the disc when they want more money? That is NOT justice, no really, that's not how we define justice outside of your little ethics class, in the REAL WORLD. - Darthyoshiboy, on 11/14/2008, -5/+165 Minutes with a WAD loader and you can bet that this becomes a moot point. Not that I've got any experience with that sort of thing. ;)
- Speed, on 11/14/2008, -1/+12Way to miss the point. Don't buy the new game.
- nickert0n, on 11/14/2008, -4/+15***** them its no different then used books, movies, clothes, gag balls, or condoms.
- pedo, on 11/14/2008, -1/+11what? are you trying to sound stupid? because if you are, you've succeeded.
- secaedelcielo, on 11/14/2008, -4/+13That's just like saying renting games is a bad thing, though.
Oh well... - mywhitenoise, on 11/14/2008, -2/+11or a lot more piracy...which is REALLY easy to do on Wii.
- eyepatch100, on 11/14/2008, -0/+8Damn in, Animal Crossing was going to be the Wii's magnum opus!
- EtherGnat, on 11/14/2008, -1/+9But we aren't talking about illegal copies. We're talking about legally purchased copies, which people should have the right to do whatever they want with. Read my post on the first sale doctrine above.
- jakatak, on 11/14/2008, -0/+8Wow. If they become like the music industry it will bite them in the ass.
- i4ybrid, on 11/14/2008, -0/+8Wouldn't this lead to people cracking their Wii and just downloading games now?
- mreade, on 11/14/2008, -0/+8What a sad state of affairs...
- godphase3, on 11/14/2008, -1/+8I bought my wii a year ago, played it, loved it, and still play Super Smash Brothers Brawl from time to time.
Unfortunately, I just don't play it enough. I can't think of very many games that I actually want that for the system. It's saddening, and as a longtime nintendo fan it's hard on me. But, I got around that. A couple weeks ago I bought an Xbox 360. If good games come out for the wii, I'll be waiting, but I gave them my best effort to support nintendo and was sadly let down. - mediaspree, on 11/14/2008, -2/+9Your comment reads like stereo instructions.
- stoanhart, on 11/14/2008, -23/+30Well, in this case it's not really greed at all. From the point of view of a game producer, there is no difference between a person buying a used game, and a person pirating the game. The gamer plays, and the developer doesn't see a dime. They are simply trying to make some money, which is relatively difficult with a video game, as the article describes.
Besides, used games in their current state should be boycotted for two reasons:
1) The developer doesn't get any of the money, only the middle man does. If you are looking to game on the cheap and don't have a problem screwing the developer, then just download the game. It's even cheap and more environmentally friendly than buying used games, and the developer is no worse off.
2) The middle men (EB et al.) will buy games for $10, then sell them for $50. THAT's where the greed is.
So, really, this move actually cuts down on the amount of greed and moves some of the revenue back to its rightful destination. - nonpareil, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6There are legal arguments against this kind of thing, available in many states. Wait for some of us lawyers to sink our teeth into this. It's going to happen.
- snea, on 11/14/2008, -2/+8Wow, looks like I won't buying it then.
There's still plenty of decent Gamecube titles that I missed. - shame126, on 11/14/2008, -9/+15Ok well from their point of view its understandable. But as a gamer .... :/
- zuke004, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6Games degrade overtime as well just not in the same physical manner as clothes. A game like GOW2 will lose gamer appeal as it gets older and has less people playing multiplayer etc. New technology will come out and graphics will get better. There is no difference between the video game market and any other market. And bacon boy above is way off. Yes I can't photocopy a shirt, but if I sell my copy of a game I no longer have the game, we're not talking about selling illegal copies here we're talking about selling a physical paripheral or a cd containing the game. If the publishers don't like it, why don't they offer "recycle" coupons. I'd send a publisher my old game so they could recycle it and give me a 5 or 10 dollar coupon to buy another game. They could just repackage and sell the game I just gave them themselves. Don't bitch about the used market publishers, join it and beat it.
- aelias, on 11/14/2008, -1/+6In order for 2 million people to buy used at store B, it would mean that Company A sold the 2 million to begin with.
Just sayin' - doctechnical, on 11/14/2008, -0/+5"...without the "cost" of resold games, the original games will become cheaper."
Huh? What "cost" of resold games? In terms of dollars and cents what difference does it make to the developer if I sell my game to a buddy for a buck, or just chuck it in a landfill? The only thing the *might* be losing is my buddy's potential sale, but if he thought the game was worth full tare new he wouldn't have gone looking for a bargain.
And assuming the industry does drive out the secondary market, what incentive would they have to lower prices? With less competition they'd raise them. - shauncorleone, on 11/14/2008, -2/+7If people would embrace game-swapping sites and local marketplaces like Craigslist, you wouldn't see the obscene profits made by the likes of Gamestop. It's a win-win situation for customer and seller when you cut out the middle man. You could sell Halo 3 to somebody for $30, who saves $20-25 off the Gamestop used price, while you make likely twice the money you would get in store credit from Gamestop.
Perhaps the perfect localized game swapping/selling web platform isn't out there yet, but you know what you're getting into when you trade your games in or buy used @ a store like this. - stoanhart, on 11/14/2008, -6/+11"That's just like saying renting games is a bad thing"
There is a difference there, though. A rental store doesn't buy movies for $9.95 like a consumer would. A single DVD costs them much, much more, because they have to buy a version with a rental license. Same goes for games.
"Don't the game companies make enough money already? Ninendo sure as hell does."
Yes, Nintendo does. And in this specific case, where they are trying to limit the resale of hardware, I think that's a pretty dirty move. But many other, purely software companies don't make that much money. Developers go bust all the time, even if they made good games.
"What happens when Chevy, Ford and Chrysler realize that people sometimes sell their cars after driving them without using a dealership as a middleman?"
Not really the same situation. For one, a used car is not the same as a used game. A used game will work exactly the same, and provide the same experience. If a used game is available (and cheaper), there is no incentive to buy the new one. With cars, the new car will be more reliable, come with a warranty, and generally be in better shape. Secondly, this is not about the manufacturer wanting you to use a middleman (as in your example); this is about the middle man (EB games) making a ***** load of money off the of the manufacturer's hard work while essentially giving them the finger.
Finally, I'm not trying to say that the used market should be actively blocked. I'm just saying, this is not purely a greedy move by developers, but an attempt to redirect the bulk of the profits where they belong: the people who made the game, not the people who sold it. - EtherGnat, on 11/14/2008, -1/+6I know I don't care much about the bottom lines of companies that treat me like a criminal for exercising my legally protected right to sell my own property.
- metaliq, on 11/14/2008, -0/+5Okay okay okay...
I don't quite know what to think in this situation. I don't think that a company, especially in our economic times, wanting to actually make money off of their creation is a capitalistic greed. I can totally see where they are coming form in the form of used games... They don't make money off of it, even though they created it, and, without money, they will be unable to survive as a business producing games. That's a drastic example.
But, at the same time, I come from the consumer's perspective. Saving $10 buying from someone on craigslist helps me out quite a bit, because, well, $10 goes a long way for me right now. That's even if I am able to purchase a game anyway.
So I see where they're coming from, but I also see the incentive of purchasing used. I do it more often than not.
So a possible solution I could see is to lower the cost of the game... but then the used market does the same. They're in an invisible capitalistic battle: One company is reselling another's product for profit, while the ones that create it are in a situation that can starve them of income.
Calling this capitalistic greed is ridiculous though. This is business. I don't see anything "greedy" about wanting to make money off of what they put effort into.
Also note that, before I read this article, I was like "what the hell?". After reading it, it makes sense to me. - coadyj, on 11/14/2008, -0/+5Look, its as simple as this. If they do this they will lose money.
If I dont think I can trade in my nice shinney new disk, Im not going to buy it.
Maybe not everyone feels this way but most do.
If i cant buy second hand games for a console, im not going to buy it.
People stop buying nintendo, goodbye nintendo.
Q.E.D -
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