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Epic won't ever develop for Wii: "we go forward, not back"
megatonik.com — When asked whether there would ever be a time when Epic would be forced to give in and create a game for the Wii, Mike Capps said, “no, we go forward, not back. It makes more sense for us to invest in the next-generation tech.” As for why he believes the Wii has become so popular, he says it’s like a virus that just keeps spreading.
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- wiizy, on 04/21/2008, -127/+60wii hasnt needed epic....so they can keep they garbage on other platforms
- mywhitenoise, on 04/21/2008, -29/+124Yeah, only quality games come out for Wii, no garbage............think about that for a second.
- KingGoonie, on 04/21/2008, -18/+46All systems have their garbage games.
- WhereAmI, on 04/21/2008, -16/+58The Wii just has so so so much more.
- aliengoods, on 04/21/2008, -9/+5Unlike the PS2, PS3, Xbox, or Xbox 360? Get real. Those platforms only have 1 good title in 20.
- mywhitenoise, on 04/21/2008, -8/+5...and the Wii has 1 good title in 50
- KibibyteBrain, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1I think the problem is most of the game development houses have been having financial problems along with everyone else in tech right now, and so overall there have been few serious attempts at making high-quality games. And of course, a crappy game is always going to trick some people into buying it, and they are cheaper to make(at least hopefully). And the worst thing about the Wii is that until it was about to come out few people seriously expected it to be the top selling next gen console, so most of the games out of it right now not by nintendo or its closer devs have literally been thrown together to exploit the market.
- BlueSkyfish, on 04/21/2008, -11/+52It's only natural for the market leader.
- aywwts4, on 04/21/2008, -3/+32The cheap and easy to develop for market leader.
Leader of a demographic that skews heavily towards people that never read reviews. - Murdats, on 04/21/2008, -8/+7@aywwts4
I believe the 360 is the cheapest and easiest to develop for, I also believe that the above post was correct in saying that the abundance of garbage is due to its popularity, its lack of quality can be explained by the same thing that caused the lack of quality games for the 360 for its first year aswell. - zeebo, on 04/21/2008, -1/+14@Murdats
You'd be wrong though, the Wii is by far the cheapest and easiest to develop for this generation since it has the simplest hardware, and you only have to worry about how the game will run at 720x480, and not at 1280x720 and 1920x1080, it also doesn't hurt that the Wii's devkits are less expensive. What's hurting the Wii's number of quality games is the attitude of companies like Epic 'only graphics matter', which led to a number of developers getting caught with their pants down and having to rush Wii titles to market to make up for money lost on larger budget 360 and PS3 titles. - senatorpjt, on 04/21/2008, -1/+5@Murdats
The 360 isn't the cheapest and easiest to develop for, it's the cheapest and easiest to port to. If you were going to develop for only one platform, the Wii is the easiest, but if you develop for the 360, you pretty much automatically get a PC version out of it. - Murdats, on 04/21/2008, -4/+1@zeebo
I dont see what the cost of the hardware has to do with simplicity of the platform.
the fact is that Directx is a well extablished platform that is relatively simple to develop for, and you can basically get 2 for the price of one if you develop for the PC and 360 (which a large portion of the games are)
I will not dispute the price of the SDK but surely if you have a larger population of potential developers well trained in a platform then you dont have to pay for specialised skills or training time.
of course I am looking at all this from the point of a large scale game studio, not a shovelware firm where game quality probably is of little issue and the cost of the SDK is probably the largest cost to incur. - Murdats, on 04/21/2008, -2/+1sorry stupid edit timer, I wanted to add that I do not know the figures and if someone could point me in the direction of them that would be much appreciated
- aywwts4, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Isn't a shovelware game studio exactly what is relevant here.
The market leader get the shovelware developers, the cost to shovelware developers directly affects the number of absolutely craptastic games a system has.
Ninjabread man, I'm looking at you.
- aywwts4, on 04/21/2008, -3/+32The cheap and easy to develop for market leader.
- KingGoonie, on 04/21/2008, -6/+17Hey WhereAmI... you might wanna take a look at the average ratings for exclusive games.... 360 has most, Wii right behind (even though its a year head start) and PS3 dead last. PS3 doesn't even yet have an exclusive game over 90%... Wii has 4 or 5 now I believe.
So... yea it has more garbage games then the others... just like PS1 had the most crappy games of any other system in history.. and PS2 right behind that... it still has some of the best games too.- staticneuron, on 04/21/2008, -11/+3Insecure much? He was talking about the amount of trash games on the Wii not the amount of highly rated ones. But if you must go there how many of those highly rated games are Nintendo staples? Ok, now how many have come out for the PS3? When titles like MGS4, Final fantasy, jak and daxter and god of war comes out (just to name a few). And worst of all taking in "average: ratings means you are going to pick up reviews from sites that just like to throw trash into the wind.
- bigbadgoat, on 04/21/2008, -0/+4Sure the PS3 doesn't have the highest rated games, but it has almost double the amount of games as the wii that are rated 75 and above and about 2/3rds of what the 360 has.
The wii also has about twice as many games with a 50 or lower rating, so what were you saying again?
- WhereAmI, on 04/21/2008, -16/+58The Wii just has so so so much more.
- DarkprinceArmon, on 04/21/2008, -5/+8Most of my gaming library exist on Wii.
- boombye, on 04/21/2008, -3/+5On the Virtual Console?
- DarkprinceArmon, on 04/21/2008, -1/+0on both the virtual console and on disc. I have about 10 dis games (not including Wii sports) and about 7VC games
- boombye, on 04/21/2008, -3/+5On the Virtual Console?
- twertyto, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1Nintendo has been known for quality games bursting in orginially instead of packing graphics over ***** gameplay and story. Some game developers spend so much damn time making on graphics that the game content suffers. Epic is one of those developers. Currently I would say that the Wii has more quality games than the other consoles but it also has lots of crap.
- KingGoonie, on 04/21/2008, -18/+46All systems have their garbage games.
- BlueSkyfish, on 04/21/2008, -10/+50Wow, two "Epic hates you" stories in one day?
http://digg.com/pc_games/5_Months_And_Still_No_UT3 ...
I bet Epic just lost a lot of respect from the gaming community today.- whoreable, on 04/21/2008, -3/+33http://digg.com/gaming_news/Epic_steals_user_creat ...
Make that 3 Epic hates you stories.- boombye, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Yeah I love that story about the guy who made a map just like the one in CoD4 and wants credit for the unoriginal idea when Epic does it and then bans him because he keeps trolling on about it on their forums ***** off people.
- mandrakeRaptor, on 04/21/2008, -6/+7heh, or gained some.
- BestJaxx, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1They sure as hell gained mine.
- BoneStamp, on 04/21/2008, -10/+5I'm sure there are exceptions, but anyone I know who owns a Wii, would not be considered part of any gaming community
- boombye, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3I wouldn't say that, I can't get a hold of Mario 64 anymore, so I dled it on my Wii, and now I'm going to play some Mass Effect. But according to you, some noob, that's probably half my age, and probably wasn't even born when NES came out, I'm not a real gamer.
- BoneStamp, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1I'm not sure what my age has to do with it, although if you must know I bought an NES when it came out. Gauntlet was my first game. I never said you're not a real gamer... I said that anyone I know who owns a Wii would not be considered part of any gaming community. Sure, they're gamers by virtue of playing games... but they're not hard core gamers. And, of course, as I said - there are exceptions. Clearly you are one of them.
- boombye, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3I wouldn't say that, I can't get a hold of Mario 64 anymore, so I dled it on my Wii, and now I'm going to play some Mass Effect. But according to you, some noob, that's probably half my age, and probably wasn't even born when NES came out, I'm not a real gamer.
- AmaDaden, on 04/21/2008, -1/+8http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/868/868001p4.html
Read that page. this story is total BS
IGN: Wii Fit's pretty fun.
Capps: Is it?
IGN: At last year's E3 everyone was hatin' on me for saying it was gonna be good. But sure enough, it is.
Capps: Well everything they do is good!
That is from the story. He does not like a lot of what the Wii is but he respects Nintendo and owns one him self. This story is all spin
- whoreable, on 04/21/2008, -3/+33http://digg.com/gaming_news/Epic_steals_user_creat ...
- rpgmaker, on 04/21/2008, -4/+6FTA: "[The Wii] It’s a virus where you buy it and you play it with your friends and they’re like, “Oh my God that’s so cool, I’m gonna go buy it.” So you stop playing it after two months, but they buy it and they stop playing it after two months but they’ve showed it to someone else who then go out and buy it and so on. Everyone I know bought one and nobody turns it on. Obviously there’s a class of people who really love it and enjoy it and are getting into the games but I’m still waiting for that one game that makes me play it."
- tsf5000, on 04/21/2008, -2/+7Your ability to cut and paste is astonishing.
- PleaseJustDie, on 04/21/2008, -1/+5He's grabbing the entire quote in context since the description left out the remainder of the quote which made the description more sensationalized than it turned to be in reality.
- MonsterChaOS, on 04/21/2008, -1/+4Ever hear of Mario Kart? Smash Bros? I own a PS3, and when my friends come over its pretty much all Wii.
When I'm home alone its a different story.
- tsf5000, on 04/21/2008, -2/+7Your ability to cut and paste is astonishing.
- Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -2/+3You've obviously never played Gears of War. Not flawless, but it's sure better than the gimmicky crap for the Wii.
- 2moredead, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Touched a nerve, huh
- mywhitenoise, on 04/21/2008, -29/+124Yeah, only quality games come out for Wii, no garbage............think about that for a second.
- InvaderDem, on 04/21/2008, -161/+164This guy is in danger of being labeled a hypocrite. All systems are adapting to the motion-sensing technology. Wii started it. PS3 announced it right after the Wii announced it. The 360 is apparently working on a motion-sensing controller. So if he develops his future games to have motion-sensing capabilities he'll be a hypocrite.
Watch ... in ten years every home console will integreate the same technology that the Wii currently uses.- Azimuth1, on 04/21/2008, -32/+340He's not criticising the motion controls, he's criticising the ***** Wii hardware and the low-res graphics it puts out. Also a company who's primary franchise is an online-focused FPS needs an online service that isn't completely broken.
- InvaderDem, on 04/21/2008, -47/+27Just because the Wii doesn't have the best graphics means that its hardware is *****. Graphics are the big boast at the moment, but soon we won't notice a difference between the PS5 and the PS6. What will happen then? Video game companies will strive to be more interactive and do what the Wii is doing. The Wii is trying to be a next-gen system ... it's just taking a different approach at it.
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -17/+8Neither Azimuth1 or the Epic employee said the Wii's hardware sucks because it can't output good graphics.
Nintendo is trying to make money, that's all. They thought they could get away with cheap hardware and they did. Why could Nintendo do both? Or do graphics at least semi-decent? Why couldn't Nintendo have a semi-decent online system too?
There's so many questions.- InvaderDem, on 04/21/2008, -9/+15Azimuth1 specifically stated that the Wii's "*****" hardware and low-res graphics were what Mike criticized.
So, what are they criticizing then? So far, the theory is that they are not talking down on the Wii's graphic capabilities or the motion-sensing technology. And their online system may be flawed, but it's not "last generation" because Nintendo WiFi was introduced with the Wii. What is left for there to point the finger at?
I think what Mike from Epic was basically bitching about is that they can't easily port their games to the Wii, so they're going to mock it. And another commenter said that there is optional motion controls in the PS3 version of Unreal Tournament 3. So if that's what Mike's issue was, he's a hypocrite; otherwise he just doesn't like the fact that the Wii is a PS2/Gamecube with motion-control and he can't easily port a game. - mattyice11, on 04/21/2008, -6/+13"And their online system may be flawed, but it's not "last generation" because Nintendo WiFi was introduced with the Wii."
It still isn't even good enough to be considered last generation. There will never be a Wii game with as good an online system as Halo 2...a last gen game. - estvir, on 04/21/2008, -4/+12No, I'd say Epic's issue is that the Wii simply cannot handle UE3. It could handle a 'lesser' version but there is no reason Epic would/should invest the time, money and resources to do so for so little gain (Though other companies can do it themselves and I think there are 1 or 2 UE games on the Wii). You also cannot argue with his virus analogy, it's true, we've all seen it happen to our friends and families we know who have bought a Wii.
Also, stop trying to paint Mike Capps as some awful, Wii hating liar, if you read it (Mostly page 4) you'll see he's kind about it, gives the Wii credit where it deserves and admits many of the games have not been to his taste.
Hell, if you actually read it you'll see he doesn't refer to the control scheme in regards to his "Forward, not back" statement, he's referring to the hardware:
"No, we go forward, not back. It makes more sense for us to invest in the next-generation tech. There have been shops that have done it. Red Steel was a launch title and that was on Unreal Engine. So it's been done. How you take an engine that's all based on shaders and materials and run it on hardware that doesn't support shaders is just impossible. It's about as easy as PSP for us. Maybe it would make sense, but it makes more sense to invest going forward."
Oh, and no, the Wii's online system is still worse then the original Xbox Live and games like Halo2, Crimson Skies, etc. In case you're not aware, that was last generation. - misterdrumz, on 04/21/2008, -5/+4I don't own a Wii but I can see how they've tried to push gaming in to another realm, like how the DS is marketed as a family device, the wii has been pushed as this too.
Granted, the Wii isn't as powerful as the 360/PS3 but then again how has UT gone forward from the typical online FPS? not much in my eyes, I'd prefer CoD4 and Team Fortress 2 any day over UT - deMonkey, on 04/21/2008, -2/+9If CPU, memory, and graphics don't matter, why not stick with the original Xbox? Or the Playstation 2 hardware? Why not even the Playstation 1 or SNES? I'm sure these developers aren't just wasting all that CPU power. Games are getting bigger, longer, and more complex. The physics and AI are always improving. The graphics are stunning, the sound is 3D and ultra high quality. This stuff all takes a lot of power. Even with the most efficient coding, at some point, the hardware becomes a bottleneck, and you must either upgrade or compromise. Nobody wants to compromise.
Edit - I replied to this in the wrong place, but the comment stands. Night time. :)
- InvaderDem, on 04/21/2008, -9/+15Azimuth1 specifically stated that the Wii's "*****" hardware and low-res graphics were what Mike criticized.
- volacide, on 04/21/2008, -12/+53Sorry. Hardware still *****. The Wii also doesn't have the processing power for advanced AI systems. Horsepower impacts more than just the visual side of things. Don't forget that.
- Jaydo, on 04/21/2008, -27/+7Learn not code so ***** and it wouldn't be that big of a problem.
- sat0shi, on 04/21/2008, -5/+28Learn not speak English so ***** and problem won't it be.
- InSectWar, on 04/21/2008, -4/+16Yoda? Is that you?
- volacide, on 04/21/2008, -14/+5Satoshi are you ***** serious? You act as if the following portion of my comment after "Sorry. Hardware still *****." was in any way improperly constructed. It was to get the point across plain and simple right off the bet, then explain why. Simplicity for the sake of impact.
I write english and speak it ***** excellently. Why are people so quick to jump on ***** like this? Please, view my profile and go take a look at any one of the numerous other comments I have made and get back to me you *****.
If I want I can be that pretentious dude that uses huge words and makes my sentences all complex just to make it look like I'm all high and mighty on my writing ability, but I prefer to blend that with how people talk in real life. Hence why I bend the "rules" here and there. - filefly, on 04/21/2008, -2/+16Dude, Satoshi wasn't even talking to you. He was replying to Jaydo, but since replies won't nest this far down... oh, never mind. I'm too tired for this.
- volacide, on 04/21/2008, -4/+9Hahahahah, holy *****, I fail.
God damn nested limit. Luckily I never dugg him down, so now I must digg him up. - volacide, on 04/21/2008, -5/+3That goes without saying satoshi, I'm sorry. I shouldn't be online this late posting comments, I tend to jump to the aggressive and ultimately incorrect conclusions far too often...
In my defense, there are a lot of stupid people on the internet. - sat0shi, on 04/21/2008, -3/+5'Tis all good volacide. This intarweb thing we're on can be a highly volatile environment!
- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -1/+10This little spat was funny until it became a ***** Full House moment.
- volacide, on 04/21/2008, -2/+1Because real men don't admit when they're wrong or apologize. *****. I forgot the cardinal rule.
- baylat, on 04/21/2008, -3/+18Graphics? What about the CPU power of Wii. It cant handle the needed processing power to run the next gen games.
- deMonkey, on 04/21/2008, -2/+7The hardware might not be bad, but it's not modern/cutting edge in any way. Some would call that "*****".
Epic wants to work with modern hardware, much like software developers don't write code for an Apple IIe anymore.- qwertydvorak, on 04/21/2008, -7/+5it is modern hardware. just not the most powerful. that is like saying the intel atom isn't modern because it isn't as powerful as a quad core. the controller scheme is modern / cutting edge, and the others tried to copy it later.
the wii has done what the others couldn't do. make tons of cash from people who wouldn't even consider a game system before. i am a gamer, but many of my friends never touched games of any kind before the wii. it is fun getting together to play golf or bowl and drink a case of beer. lots of times during football season we played a quick 3 hole round of golf during halftime. - deMonkey, on 04/21/2008, -5/+4^ By modern I meant modern top-of-the-line. Sure the CPU from my cell phone is modern but it only runs at 200 MHz. The Xbox 360 has 9.6 GHz processing throughput (3x 3.2 GHz CPUs) and a 500 MHz GPU. The Wii has a 720 (?) Mhz CPU and a 245 MHz GPU. That's over 10X the power for some pretty important stuff. I don't remember the RAM but I'm sure there's a huge difference, too. That all matters big time when you're a programmer, artist, or manager and you're designing a game. All the sudden developers can't use the same detail of graphics, physics, story line, audio, and so-on. All the sudden they have to code with hardware that's as slow as the kind of power they were using ~5 years ago. It's a step in the wrong direction in that respect.
It's like taking an Enzo and a Miata on a racetrack together. Sure the Miata's got a modern powerplant, but for what it's designed to do, the Enzo can eat its lunch without breaking a sweat. Personally I like games to have very high quality graphics. High definition matters to me. I played the Wii when my brother visited for Christmas and I had fun, but I bet Gran Turismo 5 would look like Gran Turismo 3 (or even 2) if it came out on the Wii. Imagine Crysis! I'd call these problems a big downgrade.
That isn't saying the Wii isn't fun or a great system. But top tier developers that are known to push the hardware to its smoking edge of sanity are not about to start making games for the Wii just to make money. They have their artistic vision, goals and ambitions which would be compromised. - zeebo, on 04/21/2008, -3/+6Your post is wrong in so many ways I'm not even sure how to respond to it. MHz are not the way to measure performance of CPUs, and certainly not the way to measure the performance of GPUs, nor can you add the combined speeds of the Xbox360's Xenon cores together to arrive at 9.6GHz, it simply doesn't work that way. The Wii may not be powerful compared to the other systems this generation, but its still most powerful than anything that was on the market last generation. If companies like Epic were really concerned with system power above all else, they would (as they had in the past) tracking the PC market exclusively. Even the dual core PPC970 Macs of a few years ago were capable of equaling or passing the performance of the Xbox360 (which is why they were used initially for demonstrations and development besides their somewhat similar hardware). Think what the modern quad-core machines could do in comparison to them.
Nintendo made the choice they did because of a valid business concern, they couldn't launch a more powerful system that would be competively priced since they wouldn't be able to eat an initial loss as Microsoft and Sony could. At the same time, Nintendo has different concerns looking forward than Microsoft and Sony, small form factor, heat output, and power consumption are important to them because coming into this generation Nintendo's big money maker was the handheld market, in which those are the primary concerns. - deMonkey, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2I am well aware that MHz to MHz isn't the only way to measure performance, but it's a good starting point. I could post GPU flops or video card benchmarks if I had some test hardware, but I don't. Find me a 1 GHz CPU that's faster than a 3-core 3.2 GHz CPU and I'll eat humble pie, especially when you're talking about FPU performance and throughput of the graphics over the system bus. Until then I'll stick by the statement that the Xbox 360 is a "***** LOAD FASTER" than the Wii based on the difference in graphics quality of the games. The GPU is so much faster, more transistors, and the system has a boatload more memory. Those things all do matter and that's the sole reason why Wii games look or run like ***** compared with the other current consoles.
Nintendo did have a valid business concern. They chose to put hardware profits ahead of what game developers want as they have many times in the past. Wii customers were the ones that picked up the bill and now have second rate number crunching power. Remember the SNES was going to have an optical disc add-on? Remember the N64 failed because it was based on cartridges and Sony had the CD? Nintendo isn't happy enough making profits from licensing and 1st party titles. Instead they insist on making a profit from the hardware, too, which is something Sony/Microsoft don't mind taking a hit on if it means the console will be faster and more able to handle the games released in the future. - Denithor, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2And exactly how many of those 3 cores (that are sooooo awesome) are any of those games using? Unless the software is properly load balanced for a multi-core system, a tri-core 3.2 GHz is going to run just barely faster than a 1GHz. Throwing around numbers without knowing what they mean doesn't really do a whole lot of good. On a side note, the 360 has to use up resources to run a low-rent version of windows which we all know is a memory/CPU hog. So take your tri-core 3.2GHz with windows and I'll take my 1 GHz with linux (Or the Wii's software) and I believe you'll find that they are about equal on performance. Granted, the graphics are prettier on the 360, however, that just means a longer loading times, and more chance for glitches in games. I like the 360 for what it is, but trying to compare the Wii to the 360 and the PS3 just ends up being a ***** contest, and who cares as long as you enjoy what you are playing, that's the whole point of gaming, at least in my humble opinion it is.
- deMonkey, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2Equal performance? Maybe for web browsing or the dashboard. You're ***** nuts if you think they're equal in performance for gaming. Even using ONE of those cores the Xbox 360 is still significantly faster than the Wii. THREE FOLD! I'm done here. Enjoy your Wii. :)
- gordyf, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2There is so much ignorance and filth in this thread that it's astounding. I can understand agreeing with Nintendo's decision to keep the Wii simple for cost reasons, but claiming that a Wii with a 1ghz CPU is going to be faster than a 360 with three 3.2ghz cores is ridiculous. Keep in mind here that even a completely single-threaded process running on one of these 3.2ghz cores is going to run circles around the 1ghz Wii core, and a well-optimized process will run several times faster than that.
Furthermore, claims that games don't benefit from multiple cores flies in the face of even a simple Google search revealing all kinds of threading improvements in games -- from physics calculations, geometry setup, texture loading, collision detection, environmental sound processing, there are tons of tasks that can be (and are!) parallelized.
Pull your heads out of your asses, guys. The Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3 are far faster than the Nintendo Wii, and this is not a point that can be argued. This was an intentional decision on Nintendo's part and seems to have been a good one, too, as evidenced by their market adoption.
- qwertydvorak, on 04/21/2008, -7/+5it is modern hardware. just not the most powerful. that is like saying the intel atom isn't modern because it isn't as powerful as a quad core. the controller scheme is modern / cutting edge, and the others tried to copy it later.
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -17/+8Neither Azimuth1 or the Epic employee said the Wii's hardware sucks because it can't output good graphics.
- requiem3, on 04/21/2008, -29/+19The Wii has next-gen gameplay, it just doesn't look like next gen.
PS3/360 look like next gen, but it has last-gen gameplay.- dmac41, on 04/21/2008, -2/+14Wouldn't it be current gen? Next gen would be a few years from now.
- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -4/+5"We go forward, not back." *picks up the controller and presses buttons as he has all of his life*
- KingGoonie, on 04/21/2008, -13/+2The wii online service isn't COMPLETELY broken. Its just not as good as the others... take mario kart for the wii, supposed to have an incredible online experience that is worth the price of the game all by itself... no lag or anything they are saying. Thats kinda annoying me in a way because its a title I was going to hold off on because of GTAIV... I love me some Mario Kart, but figured I could wait a month or two, but now all the talk abouthow awesome the online is... its going to be harder to not get it that first day. So its not completely broken, but they do need to step it up a notch. Or 10. Friend codes... wtf.
- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -1/+5***** Mario Kart until Nintendo learns that nobody in the damn world enjoys the existence of blue shells.
- Mrstupid7, on 04/21/2008, -1/+4Learn to dodge the blue turtle shells and stop sucking so much.
- Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2"The wii online service isn't COMPLETELY broken. Its just not as good as the others..."
Yes, but this is a business, you know, with COMPETITION, the Wii's service is the worst, therefore it might as well be broken.
- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -1/+5***** Mario Kart until Nintendo learns that nobody in the damn world enjoys the existence of blue shells.
- WhereAmI, on 04/21/2008, -16/+47The Wii has a gimmick, and anyone that respects gaming can appreciate what the Wii tries to do, but anyone that respects gaming can see that the Wii appeals to certain groups, and those groups do not include my friends and I. Unless I'm drunk.
- BrainInAJar, on 04/21/2008, -6/+47that whole comment sounded like you were admitting to fooling around with a guy in college...
" gay appeals to certain people, but those people don't include my friends and I. Unless I'm drunk. "- Aensland, on 04/21/2008, -2/+13Being drunk excuses a lot of things. Like lapses in judgement.
- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -1/+6Aensland: Not suckin' a dick, though.
- precision256, on 04/21/2008, -1/+4You ever suck some dick for marijuana?
- Jaydo, on 04/21/2008, -21/+9The Wii has core gameplay value... something 99% of games coming from the 360 and PS3 lack.
- sat0shi, on 04/21/2008, -14/+36"The Wii has core gameplay value... something 99% of games coming from the 360 and PS3 lack."
Hahahahahahahahahahahaahhahhaahahahaha... *breath* ... hahahahahahahahahhhahahahahaaha!
(This is coming from a Wii owner.)
So, if by core gameplay value you mean 50 random party games that don't actually even respond very well to the Wiimote, you may be right. The only games I've enjoyed on the Wii is Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy, and that's pretty sad.- alexforcefive, on 04/21/2008, -5/+3Mario Kart's pretty good. You know, in multiplayer.
- Mrstupid7, on 04/21/2008, -7/+7Quit buying the party games and look for other ones. They are out there.
- skeeterbug84, on 04/21/2008, -7/+3Right on. I am glad I sold my unit on craigslist last Christmas.
- metalhead87, on 04/21/2008, -3/+5Never played Zack and Wiki, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros, Metroid Prime, Super Paper Mario, Trauma Center, or No More Heroes, hun? :p
- aladrin, on 04/21/2008, -6/+5I've enjoyed a few more... Super Swing Golf 1 & 2, Carnival Games, Opoona... But your points still stands: Core Gameplay Value is -not- a feature of the Wii any more than it's a feature of any other system.
In fact, if you want Core Gameplay Value, the PS3 would be in the lead since it has a ton of things the others don't:
Backwards Compatibility: While Wii and 360 technically have this, you can't play 2-generation old games on the 360, and you can't plug your physical cartridge into the Wii (You have to re-buy the games, and only the ones they allow!)
Region Free: 360 and Wii are at least partially region-locked. PS3 allows ps3 games from all regions, and any PS1 games you buy via the PSN will play on any region console. (The account that buys them has to be from the right region to even get them, of course, but you can have multiple accounts.)
Sharing: PS3 is the only system that lets you share games you buy from the online store with up to 4 friends at a time.
The one thing the PS3 is missing now is good, new games. There's been a few, but most of them were also on the 360 and/or PC.
That's not to say the other 2 don't have good features, they just don't measure up to the PS3 right now.- zeebo, on 04/21/2008, -3/+4You're missing the fact that the Wii is fully compatible with gamecube games, which is more than can be said about the playstation 3 at this point as only the more expensive models now even have backwards compatibility, and even then the current models that feature it are partially software based and offer only about 80% compatibility.
- 1gunners4, on 04/21/2008, -1/+19"you can't play 2-generation old games on the 360"
Given that the 360 is the second generation of XBoxes, I'd be massively impressed if it could somehow play games from two generations ago. - g3r4, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1@zeebo
That still means that you can play MORE last gen games on the PS3, than the Wii. Sony secured the 3rd party last generation, and Nintendo was, metaphorically, forced to masturbate. No one else would touch them.
Have fun playing Wind Waker and SSB: Melee on your Wii. Umm... Metroid Prime too. I can't think of anything else, right now.
- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -3/+2I'd say anything Trauma Center related will show you that motion controls are awesome.
- BrainInAJar, on 04/21/2008, -6/+47that whole comment sounded like you were admitting to fooling around with a guy in college...
- mrgreen4242, on 04/21/2008, -12/+5I wouldn't call the Wii's online system broken. Reviews of MK Wii indicate it works really well, and MoH Heroes got it right with the EA Nation as well. I'd say that Nintendo's online system is having growing pains, but it's not broken. It has the massive advantages of not costing $50 a year and being designed to "just work" at the expense of more features (which, personally, I like).
That and the lack of voice chat it, for me, a feature. No more being called a fag newb by little kids FTW! (If I want to voice chat with my friends while I play I'll put my cell on speaker phone after 7pm).- SupaDawg, on 04/21/2008, -1/+4I hate the $50/yr argument. It's fricken pennies. Find me another way to get that much entertainment out of less than $5 a month.
- Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2...Growing pains? XBL never had growing pains, and it makes the Wii's online look pants-on-head retarded. $50 a year is less than a dollar a week for a service that's vastly superior. Would you rather drive a car, and pay for gas, or ride a unicycle everywhere?
- jeff303, on 04/21/2008, -6/+5company WHOSE primary franchise. whose.
- diptheria, on 04/21/2008, -2/+1why ya gotta be a dick?
- InvaderDem, on 04/21/2008, -47/+27Just because the Wii doesn't have the best graphics means that its hardware is *****. Graphics are the big boast at the moment, but soon we won't notice a difference between the PS5 and the PS6. What will happen then? Video game companies will strive to be more interactive and do what the Wii is doing. The Wii is trying to be a next-gen system ... it's just taking a different approach at it.
- evozero, on 04/21/2008, -3/+14don't think he's criticizing the motion controls. UT3 for ps3 uses optional motion controls for flying on the hoverboard.
- mywhitenoise, on 04/21/2008, -15/+44I hope motion controls aren't the future. I'm not too fond of them on most Wii games, and I absolutely hate them on all the PS3 games that use it.
- salmonmoose, on 04/21/2008, -4/+15Agreed. There is nothing worse than slouching around to play a video game, and then suddenly being required to sit in an upright position (I'm looking at you Heavenly Sword). That said, I did enjoy flying in Rachet & Clank (even if it did require sitting up).
I miss things from each console, but one thing I don't miss on the 360 is motion control (a wii like pointer would be nice though).- schoate09, on 04/21/2008, -9/+4That's why I sold my Wii. As a running athlete who runs many miles a day, I'd rather lay down to play video games, and the upright position was really a dealbreaker for me vs PS3 or 360 where I can lay on my back and play. Some PS3 games that require motion input randomly really annoy me, although Ratchet was kind of fun over here. And Super Rub-A-Dub was fun, but I can select once and a while when I feel like playing the exception.
- homercles337, on 04/21/2008, -5/+4Agreed. Motion control is a fad. Works great for folks in physical therapy, but this gimicky ***** is not going to stand the test of time.
- burrgrinder, on 04/21/2008, -3/+0I think the PS3 style might take off, where it augments a normal controller, but the Wii version is completely hit or miss with games right now. Some work amazing (Wii Sports, Mario Galaxy, Zelda), others make you so frustrated you honestly feel like chucking the controller through the TV screen (most driving games).
It's not really the controller design as much as it is the developers. This mentality of "port it to all platforms and ignore the unique characteristics of motion control" just creates a boatload of ***** Wii ports.
- burrgrinder, on 04/21/2008, -3/+0I think the PS3 style might take off, where it augments a normal controller, but the Wii version is completely hit or miss with games right now. Some work amazing (Wii Sports, Mario Galaxy, Zelda), others make you so frustrated you honestly feel like chucking the controller through the TV screen (most driving games).
- salmonmoose, on 04/21/2008, -4/+15Agreed. There is nothing worse than slouching around to play a video game, and then suddenly being required to sit in an upright position (I'm looking at you Heavenly Sword). That said, I did enjoy flying in Rachet & Clank (even if it did require sitting up).
- doctorfungi, on 04/21/2008, -27/+51Why is it that Wii fan boys seem to think that adding motion controllers to something makes it next-gen?
- Tishiablo, on 04/21/2008, -20/+24I guess it only becomes next gen once the 360 does it.
- tendonut, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2Oh wait...
- WernerCD, on 04/21/2008, -15/+36Why is it that PS3 fanboys think that putting shiny new graphics on the same crap we played last year is next-gen? oo more realistic smoke on halo. Whoopie.
Either side can spin it... New hardware (Same ***** in a better package) or new interface (same package with a new way of playing).
Either way both sides bring new stuff to the table.and calling people fan boys don't change the numbers. PS2 had last generation. And it seems like Wii/DS has the current gen.- schoate09, on 04/21/2008, -4/+13Seee, I think it is though. It's like PC eveolution, the more powerful hardware allows so much more than shiny graphics. First off, the amazing graphicso n my new 1080p Bravia really changed my former opinion of "graphics aren't everything". Nice graphics are a nice accessory to finish off a good game. But more importantly, the processing power that allows realistc AI, more characters and moving objects on the screen, realistic physics, all just moake for a much more immersive gaming expereince. Now, it's not always neccisary for fun, and Brawl and Galaxy show that, but the majority of the Wii's remaining collection is crap.
- acero47, on 04/21/2008, -4/+2Not everyone's willing to shell out big bucks for a hd tv (the 1080p Bravia is over $2000 according to a quick google search). If you don't have that, then the higher end graphics are not as impressive, thus making them not as important. I definitely think that the improved AI, and other non-graphics related effects of a more powerful system are more important.
- DarKnight90, on 04/21/2008, -9/+1You can get a 42" 1080p viewsonic for 1200 bucks.
Anyone who payed 2000 bucks for a TV is retarded. - SpectralSounds, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2There are a tons of variables that make a good TV and the size of the screen is just one of them. Sure, you can go out to walmart and get an "46 inch HD-TV" for a measly $1,000 but it will be a piece of *****. My 4665F looks a thousand times better. It was worth every penny of the just under $2,000 I spent for it. So, call me retarded.
- donte, on 04/21/2008, -5/+5At least when you buy the new playstation or xbox you are getting a new system capable of something more than the previous version. With the Wii you get motion controls on something that is otherwise equivalent to the gamecube. So you bought a new system to get a fancy new controller. With the other guys you get better graphics, more power to have more complex AI, and when you are playing online the capability to host more players. It's not spinning it one way or the other. Wii fell shorting of offering much more -- they just market it well.
- burrgrinder, on 04/21/2008, -1/+0It's really a toss-up for gaming "revolutions", but I think the 360 will influence the future of your living room more than anything else with the Live service. It's basically setting the stage for IPTV and downloading all of your content instead of going to the store or paying for cable.
Sony might incorporate this too with the Playstation Network and Home, but the credit goes to Microsoft for doing it first, and Sony owns media production studios, so they're in a more difficult position to sign contracts with other content providers. The Wii will never achieve this as their online ability mostly seems to be a means to distribute firmware upgrades and Virtual Console games, with other online features tacked on as an afterthought.
The "more complex AI" is pretty bunk too, as you can still have fun games without being overly complex. Realistic AI is only important if you're trying to be realistic, the Wii doesn't always have to do that.
- schoate09, on 04/21/2008, -4/+13Seee, I think it is though. It's like PC eveolution, the more powerful hardware allows so much more than shiny graphics. First off, the amazing graphicso n my new 1080p Bravia really changed my former opinion of "graphics aren't everything". Nice graphics are a nice accessory to finish off a good game. But more importantly, the processing power that allows realistc AI, more characters and moving objects on the screen, realistic physics, all just moake for a much more immersive gaming expereince. Now, it's not always neccisary for fun, and Brawl and Galaxy show that, but the majority of the Wii's remaining collection is crap.
- Kelmon, on 04/21/2008, -5/+15Typically because it's an attempt to produce an immersive experience not seen in gaming since the invention of the lightgun back in the 1980s. Something that could honestly be called "next generation" hasn't really occurred since the original PlayStation with its focus on 3D graphics and the XBox with its focus on online gaming. Games honestly haven't advanced much and up until the Wii appeared consistent mostly of fiddling with a joypad. Compare the experience of playing the likes of Tiger Woods on the Wii and the other systems and there is a heck of a difference that really makes the Wii a "next generation" experience.
However, I will say that motion sensing only makes something "next generation" when it adds something that makes sense and wasn't done before. Mario Kart, for example, would not count as "next generation" on the Wii even with motion sensing for the simple reason that steering wheel controllers have existed for many years. - zongamin, on 04/21/2008, -7/+5Whilst PS3 users are happy to drool over the same old games with better graphics you mean?
- Murdats, on 04/21/2008, -4/+7because the wii does something my PC hasnt been able to do for the last 20 years.
- sgglynn, on 04/21/2008, -1/+6Seriously? Everyone here is arguing what makes something a "next-gen" console?
1. Who cares, it's a stupid label
2. They are all next generation, it's a follow up to a previous model. Gamecube game out, then Wii, wii is the next generation console from nintendo. Just like iPod releases a new model, it's a new generation.
- Tishiablo, on 04/21/2008, -20/+24I guess it only becomes next gen once the 360 does it.
- latova, on 04/21/2008, -6/+51They hate PC gaming too, and they're run out of platforms to hate.
- reichg, on 04/21/2008, -10/+2unreal sucks i wouldnt want to play it on a console or wii epic needs to take a page from ubisoft now they make great 3rd person shooters and nnot crap like GOW and unreal *****, unreal 3 is just UT 2004 with new graphics nothing else waste of time and money
- Murdats, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1look at all the games you do like, chances are half them run on the unreal3 engine, the engine itself is awesome.
its like half life 2, even if you dont like it you have to admit they made a good engine that hosts some amazing games. - Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1Is this actually a comment, or did you ***** on your keyboard and click submit?
- Murdats, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1look at all the games you do like, chances are half them run on the unreal3 engine, the engine itself is awesome.
- magus_melchior, on 04/21/2008, -7/+8It's not like he "hates" the Wii, it's just that he's one of a lot of people who still think it's a gimmick. Hardcore gamers demand massive computational power and beautiful graphics, and it's clear that Epic is pursuing that. Unfortunately, that stuff costs a lot of money, Moore's law notwithstanding. So Epic's games will remain a niche market, because they don't want to pare down UE3 for non-shader hardware. On the one hand, it allows them to focus on pushing the bleeding edge of development; on the other, such a decision may threaten their financial resources.
- Murdats, on 04/21/2008, -2/+4I would say I am a hardcore gamer, so I use a pc, however I also use a wii because I do like what it can do (which my PC cant).
- spongya77, on 04/21/2008, -1/+4I'm a hardcore gamer, focusing on simulator and strategy games. I have to tell you: graphics is secondary when it comes to these games. (Not that it has to do anything with Wii, as it doesn't have the types of game I'm playing. Just trying to make a point that graphics is not everything. If the people who make games would keep it in mind, maybe 80% of the games would not be a piece of crap, with DirectX10 compatibility.)
- mrgreen4242, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2I think hardcore gamers demand a finished, polished product that has lasting value (not necessarily replay value, just a game that is fun through out it's full play time). This is certainly possible on the Wii, you just don't get the HD and higher resolution textures, etc.
- Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -3/+2Except for the fact that when you build a game around a gimmick, you get gimmicky games.
- acero47, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1I'll agree in part to the computational power, but no "hardcore gamer" cares that much whether the graphics are good or great. Why do you think all the best game lists have so many games from the SNES era? Because the graphics are so amazing? No, because they had great gameplay and a great story. Graphics are one of the least important things to "hardcore gamers."
Edit: sorry, I just noticed Morality said almost the exact same thing below me. - rpgmaker, on 04/21/2008, -4/+2"So Epic's games will remain a niche market.."
Ok, just read that sentence again, turn off your internet and kill yourself. You will be making us a favor.
- Morality, on 04/21/2008, -12/+24Hardcore gamers don't give a ***** about graphics. Hardcore sales marketing teams tell us we care about graphics.
Hardcore gamers care about gameplay.- pjdk28, on 04/21/2008, -3/+13you push hardware limits and you expand what games are capable of. you should never be happy w/ status quo
- cigawoot, on 04/21/2008, -4/+5Hardcore gamers do, in fact, care about gameplay. You can polish ***** to a mirror shine, but it'll still be *****. Frankly, I'd rather have a game that plays well and its FUN instead of a game that looks pretty but has no substance.
Also, Halo 3 fanbois that bitch because my TV isn't high-def can suck an egg. My TV big old CRT TV is good enough for my Wii, I don't need fancy high-def graphics to have fun. Games that require heavy number crunching or pixel pushing power are played on my PC, screw the Xbox 360 and the PS3. My PC and my Wii are just fine.- pjdk28, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1your thinking is so slanted. What if we just stayed with floppy disks 20 years ago? that cd-rom "myst" game was a fanboy darling and almost single handedly revolutionized the pc gaming industry. The principle here is the same, and it is deeper than graphical polish: the creative vision of any gamemaker is limited by the hardware. Improving the hardware means LESS GAMEPLAY COMPROMISE. there really is no argument here
- tendonut, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1But you are comparing storage media to other hardware. You could very well make a great (not pretty) game with a 486 under the hood as long as you had enough storage to store the game. Floppies just weren't cutting it. We will hit the DVD storage barrier eventually, just not this generation (And don't say the PS3 because we all know it wasn't necessary yet)
- cigawoot, on 04/21/2008, -4/+5Hardcore gamers do, in fact, care about gameplay. You can polish ***** to a mirror shine, but it'll still be *****. Frankly, I'd rather have a game that plays well and its FUN instead of a game that looks pretty but has no substance.
- Risingashes, on 04/21/2008, -3/+9Agreed.
Good graphics can be there but they lose all appeal 2 seconds after the fighting starts.
Most people were perfectly happy with 8bit graphics.
Graphics should facilitate gameplay not stand separate from it. Does anyone actually sit down next to a reflective lake and have a picnic in a game? Are such people really the demographic that gaming companies want to appeal to? Wouldn't they be better off going outside?- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3A friend of mine was playing an MMO and some stupid girl in there tried to get him to go "enjoy a sunset" with her. XD
- mrgreen4242, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3While I think that saying people were satisfied with 8-bit graphics is a tiny stretch, I do think that the Super NES was pretty close to all anyone "needed" from video game visuals. The faux 3D and scaling effects, great looking animation and sprites... it was enough to immerse you in a game and let the game play be the primary focus.
- tendonut, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2@mrgreen4242
I have been a hardcore gamer since the 8-bit era (maybe even the Intellivision if you want to strech it), and I still have to say, no system has entertained me quite like the SNES did. The graphics may be comparable to ass by today's standards, but I can't think of a single game I would rather be stuck on an deserted (yet powered) island with besides Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past - JRobL, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Aren't 16 and 32 bit games still being made for hand helds? I suppose they sometimes break the rules with particle effects, but it's not like good ol' sprite art ever stopped being beautiful. And as for consoles, I just judge by "fun" and "not fun". Makes everything a lot easier.
- ZenMojo, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1Most people were fine and dandy without the cellphone, too. Your point?
- ripter, on 04/21/2008, -0/+6I don't know why your being dugg down, this is so true. I'm sorry but I've gotten more fun out of Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World than I did Halo 3. (Now I'm not bashing halo because I do like the games.) It comes down to game play, it's great if you have good game play AND good graphics, but I'd rather play a fun game than a boring game that's pretty.
I think the issue is that gaming companies spend all their time on making it look pretty instead of developing the game play. When you develop for the Wii you can't do that, you can only do so much for the graphics. (I'm not saying that all Wii games are fun) - methos75, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1So ***** true, its hardcore gamers like us that bought Okami, SMT, Tales of the Abyss, EDF, Odin Sphere, Ar Tonelico, etc and its us keeping series like Graduis, KOF, etc alive and single-handed keeping 2D gaming alive. Its not the causal hordes buying Arcana Hearts or Persona 3: FES or excited that the SNK Collection being released next week, there too busy buying shallow games that have good graphics like AC, Motorstorm, etc.
- rpgmaker, on 04/21/2008, -2/+1It just happens that the games with strong graphics seems to have the best gameplay then. In this era, when you talk about hardcore gamers the titles that come to your mind are far from being Mario Kart Wii, Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit or the RE remakes. Not bashing the wii I own one myself, just speaking the truth.
- Drax0n, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2Ummmm I'd take Mario kart wii or Mario Galaxy over ANY 360 game no matter how many pixels per inch the 360 game has. Hell you can double or triple Halos graphics.. but its still halo, its still just another polished copy of Doom and wolfenstien.
- InvaderDem, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2People who don't agree that graphics equal greatness are people who grew up with 8/16/24/32-bit consoles. Unfortunately, todays' hardcore gamers grew up with the PlayStation and the Playstation 2 who were told that graphics do equal greatness.
- ZenMojo, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2It's not graphics, it's immersion. The reality is, poor graphics usually equals poor physics and limits your immersion in the gameplay environment and therefore interactivity.
- Kbriggs, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1I consider myself hardcore, and I'd much rather go out and drop 2k on a l33t television, and an HD gaming console than watch bobbleheads on my old school projection tv.
- Drax0n, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1To bad there arn't any good games on those l33t systems. every single "next gen" nrpg has been complete crap (well I admit Portal was a fun 5 hours). I'd take FF3(hint thats on SNES) over any next gen game. at least that game had a storyline, and gameplay.
- pjdk28, on 04/21/2008, -3/+13you push hardware limits and you expand what games are capable of. you should never be happy w/ status quo
- TheXeno, on 04/21/2008, -3/+18Okay here's the deal. The wii is awesome, awesome in the fact it has extended the videogame market into areas previously uncharted. More people who normally don't play games, are playing. That's cool. Though don't kid yourself, if you go in thinking the wii will give the the same gaming experience you've gotten used to for the past 20+ years or so (depending on how old ya are) you'd be mistaken. It's a casual console, built for the mass market. It doesn't push much as far as boundaries, but it is affordable, and does offer a unique way to control. Plus you'll also get the same Nintendo franchises, with the same old characters, if you're into that sort of thing. (I'm not, but that's just me)
Gaming is going in two directions now, and it's a good thing, casual and hardcore (hate that term actually, but it's familiar enough you'll know what I'm getting at) Markets are getting bigger, and Hollywood is getting a little nervous at the growing medium. All this competition is good, but sometimes we forget with all this personal bias, that honestly, Nintendo is in its own different category now. It's forward for some, and backward for others. To Epic its understandably backward, to others its a new frontier- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -3/+1I embrace the genocide of people who can't stop saying "casual" and "hardcore" when it comes to games. The Wii is capable of appealing to both sides and has. You're the same idiots who call anything by Nintendo "kiddy".
- rpgmaker, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1I embrace the genocide of people who embrace genocide.
PS: Nintendo is not kiddy that is not what TheXeno is saying. Even though that's what the Nintendo marketing suggest by itself. - Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -2/+3I DO say that Nintendo is "kiddy", I didn't before, but the Wii has changed my mind.
Yes, it has good games, but they're all built around a gimmick designed to appeal to people who've never played real games.
It's like giving an Amish person a golf cart and saying it's a Porsche.
- rpgmaker, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1I embrace the genocide of people who embrace genocide.
- methos75, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Whats funny though is that the Wii is embracing the same same people who call nintendo "kiddy" the casuals, you never hear a true hardcore gamer call Nintendo games that.
- dynelol, on 04/21/2008, -3/+1I embrace the genocide of people who can't stop saying "casual" and "hardcore" when it comes to games. The Wii is capable of appealing to both sides and has. You're the same idiots who call anything by Nintendo "kiddy".
- converge, on 04/21/2008, -4/+11Epic Fail.
- inkswamp, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1One of the few and only times I'm willing to digg something like that up.
- precision256, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3I see what you did there.
- kmb1794, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2/watching
- LordRedSnake, on 04/21/2008, -2/+6The day motion control is forced onto games on other systems is the day I stop playing games. If I want to move my body and arms around to have fun I'll go out and actually play a sport or go to the gym. When I play videogames I want to sit back and relax and move my thumbs around.
- louiedog, on 04/21/2008, -2/+3The first time I opened a door in Metroid by moving the Wiimote around and contorting my wrist I wondered why I couldn't just press x. People try really hard to convince themselves that stuff like that is fun and immersive and makes the game better. I don't get it.
- Mopatop, on 04/21/2008, -3/+4You seem to be overlooking the fact that all motion sensing controls suck. Epic make serious games, you can't play games seriously with flaky, unresponsive input devices.
- Drax0n, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1You have also forgotten that Epic sucks. All they do is Copy Doom, and Duke 3d over and over.. than beat it witha dead horse, than rape it and copy it again.
- fotbr, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1"Serious Games"
*****. They make games aimed at the FPS market. A market that lives and breathes one specific form of gaming. A market with (apparently) lots of money - either their own, or their mom's and dad's money. And a market that gets lots of publicity. But they're not "serious" games, because, after all, they're GAMES.
- Kbriggs, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2I like the Wii started it comment, b/c I think the Wii & the PS3 were both released around the same time. I'm not sure b/c I was only born in 83', but I think the almighty powerglove started it.
- Linh, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1the motion controls for the ps3 were announced after nintendo revealed what code name "revolution" was. Whether or not sony really had it in the works as a surprise, or if they simply did throw it on there, will always likely be debated.
- Saabzilla, on 04/21/2008, -2/+6Listen up Wii Fanboy! Would anyone like to venture back 10 years? Who here remembers the Microsoft Sidewinder Freestyle Pro. A failure it may have been but is was a motion sensing PC controller! Originally released back in 1998.
For a history lesson look here - http://wii.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/706/tit ...
Any way, how good would Gears of War look on a Wii... (take a look at your toilet next time you take a dump)- Drax0n, on 04/21/2008, -2/+1Gears of war was so boring, who cares how it looks when the game sucks...
- Shaflugi, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1I don't know, I'm guessing it would still look like 20 shades of gray and brown.
- blankb, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2he has
0 diggs
lol - huntersquid, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Maybe they're just sore about the poor sales of UT3.
- InvaderDem, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1It looks like my original comment will be dugg down pretty soon. Shame too, I'm proud of the long list of sub-comments my comment created.
- Azimuth1, on 04/21/2008, -32/+340He's not criticising the motion controls, he's criticising the ***** Wii hardware and the low-res graphics it puts out. Also a company who's primary franchise is an online-focused FPS needs an online service that isn't completely broken.
- Christbait, on 04/21/2008, -59/+40It's the fact that the Wii as a whole is a big trendy gimmicky toy.
And at the end of the day, the Unreal Engine is all about stunning visuals... and the Wii does not do "Stunning Visuals".- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -19/+4It doesn't do too much either, basically, it has random, simple fun games cornered (Though last-gen the Xbox had some fun party games like Fusion Frenzy and some other similar types o games) but that's about it.
If you want games with good story lines, immersive gameplay, etc chances are you'll be looking for games on the PS3 or Wii. By the way, I'm not saying the Wii won't have any games with good stories, just in comparison to other consoles it will be far less.
People who tout "Gameplay over graphics Nintendo winzlol" need to think a little more. Nintendo is starting to fail with gameplay or at least not expand it outside of quick "YAY FUN" which is good and all, but some of us like variation and deeper games.- artemus, on 04/21/2008, -9/+8i think that the idiots who think that Nintendo doesn't have games with "amazing" visuals had better take a look at some of the games on the system. Super Mario Galaxy anyone? What about Super Smash Bros? Words cannot do justice to how amazing that game looks. I was playing it on my brother's HD TV, and was amazed at how good it looked. And it wasn't in 480p, either. Nintendo spent invested millions of dollars into researching their CPU and GPU chips. You think that they spent that money just to create a "slightly more powerful gamecube"? Yeah, the architecture may not be brand new tech, but the microprocessors are. (By the way, there's a very simple reason that Nintendo went with Gamecube tech, and it wasn't because they were cheap. It was because developers were already familiar it.
But I digress. Face it, just because Nintendo has gone in a different direction, doesn't mean that they neglected graphics. They may not be HD, but let's face it, it's overrated to begin with. HD is a massive waste of time and energy. Instead of focusing on ways of spurring on creativity, we get the same old rehashes, of sports games, fighters, and Instead of getting involved a technological ***** contest, Nintendo has gone the other way, towards technological innovation.
The whole point of the Wii is to shake up the video game industry, and it seems to be having an effect. The fact that some of you think that the Wii is a "gimmick" obviously haven't either a)played the Wii, or b)are so insecure in your manhood that you feel that you have to bash it in order to feel better about yourselves. Well, I've got a message for you. Motion sensing is not a gimmick. It is an integral part of the future. It works, and it works well, and it is not going away anytime soon.- DarkSamus, on 04/21/2008, -3/+4lol wut?
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -2/+4I never said Nintendo games explicitly do not have good visuals, it's just that most don't and compared to other consoles, it will more or less never been on par as a whole.
Hell, half the things you said are addressing things I never said in that post and half of it is just plain stupid. So, I won't even bother to address the barrage of fallacies and straw men arguments you presented to us. - Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1First of all, your comment is so long that I didn't read it. Secondly, Nintendo games do not have "amazing" visuals, they have CARTOOON visuals.
- artemus, on 04/21/2008, -9/+8i think that the idiots who think that Nintendo doesn't have games with "amazing" visuals had better take a look at some of the games on the system. Super Mario Galaxy anyone? What about Super Smash Bros? Words cannot do justice to how amazing that game looks. I was playing it on my brother's HD TV, and was amazed at how good it looked. And it wasn't in 480p, either. Nintendo spent invested millions of dollars into researching their CPU and GPU chips. You think that they spent that money just to create a "slightly more powerful gamecube"? Yeah, the architecture may not be brand new tech, but the microprocessors are. (By the way, there's a very simple reason that Nintendo went with Gamecube tech, and it wasn't because they were cheap. It was because developers were already familiar it.
- daftfunk1, on 04/21/2008, -7/+26It is a toy. So is the X-Box 360 and PS3. The Wii is just the most successful toy. If the only goal is to have stunning visuals I wouldn't want to play their games.
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -2/+3It's not the only goal and the Wii may have the most success in regards to the amount of units sold but in other regards, they do not have the most success.
- acero47, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2other regards such as?
- bigsteve, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2Weight. In regards to weight, the X-Box 360 and PS3 are significantly heavier.
...and...therefore more successful.
- carpeclunes, on 04/21/2008, -2/+4If the only goal was to wiggle the wiimote, I wouldn't want to play their games. I want good graphics, good gameplay, and good controls (not gimmicky controls). And a good story, which many Wii games lack, even the good ones.
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -2/+3It's not the only goal and the Wii may have the most success in regards to the amount of units sold but in other regards, they do not have the most success.
- lordspidey, on 04/21/2008, -5/+2Aye but the gameplay is quite fine in many games.
- Thumper13, on 04/21/2008, -6/+24Screw you all. I have a PC for graphics...my Wii is for fun with the family.
I love my PC games, and they look fantastic.
The Wii games are more fun though. Fun without the intense involvement.
Both are great...I don't see getting rid of either.- GasPoweredGnome, on 04/21/2008, -2/+3Does the statement really need to start off with "Screw you all?" Not very family-friendly, you know?
- imlate, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2dugg for "Screw you all"
- reichg, on 04/21/2008, -3/+3incorrect the unreal engine is about rehashing same content with a new poslish thats all UT will ever be, try this epic come up with new weapons and not just prettier versions
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3UE is used for a ton of different games by outside companies, like Lost Odyssey for example. Also, UT3 has gameplay changes compared to UT2004 and all previous UT versions have gameplay changes.
I'll stop now since basically, you're dumb enough to think every UT game is the same and that UE is explicitly UT.
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3UE is used for a ton of different games by outside companies, like Lost Odyssey for example. Also, UT3 has gameplay changes compared to UT2004 and all previous UT versions have gameplay changes.
- coldpockets, on 04/21/2008, -2/+3The Unreal Engine is more of a "toy" than the Wii if we're talking about style vs. substance. The wii manages to be incredibly fun without incredible technology. What is the Unreal Engine without pretty graphics?
- Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2The Wii is shallow, I know several people who where hit by the "virus" just like Mike Capps says in the article. All seven of them own Wii, we've all been playing games for a long time, and none of them turn 'em on anymore. My best friend gave his wii to his grandma...how's that for substance.
- zyryx, on 04/21/2008, -3/+1sshhhhh... don't tell the wiitards
- DownkeyKowng, on 04/21/2008, -3/+1Aw muh gaawd, Supah Maw-wee-oh Gal-wixies stunned my baw' sacks!
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -19/+4It doesn't do too much either, basically, it has random, simple fun games cornered (Though last-gen the Xbox had some fun party games like Fusion Frenzy and some other similar types o games) but that's about it.
- doshindude, on 04/21/2008, -41/+16well I guess Epic doesn't like making money/being successful. Well at least they have their not-dignity.
- carpeclunes, on 04/21/2008, -1/+12Yes, Epic is not making any money. No one likes the Unreal engine. They are not successful at all.
- boombye, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3Maybe if you could teach them how to get Unreal 3 engine powered games to Wii, maybe then they could make some money and become successful, right doucheindude?
- MewTwo, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2That's funny that you say "not-dignity" cause it's the very opposite.
Developing a ***** game for the mass audience of the Wii just for a few bucks is pretty undignified.
- joey368, on 04/21/2008, -32/+17"we go forward, not back".
and no up either, but down.- mattcoady, on 04/21/2008, -1/+26And always twirling, twirling towards freedom.
- Shenaniganz08, on 04/21/2008, -0/+6sir I applaud you for the Simpson's reference
- AwesomeMonster, on 04/21/2008, -62/+342Who cares? Epic really only makes 2 games, GoW series and UT series. It's not like they are some must have developer.
- WhereAmI, on 04/21/2008, -7/+63They also make that moderately popular Unreal engine. Bad news if the game division of Epic doesn't want anything to do with the Wii. But I suppose a nice PS2 port couldn't hurt.
- zephyear, on 04/21/2008, -18/+11"moderately popular"
moderately? do you know how many games use Unreal? it's even used by film studios for CGI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine_games- JayD16, on 04/21/2008, -1/+30This wiki link would probably be more informative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
- JayD16, on 04/21/2008, -1/+30This wiki link would probably be more informative.
- TiMMY8765, on 04/21/2008, -1/+5eh if it goes long enough, id or croteam or someone will step up and make a good engine to license (remember how many games used to be based on the quake3 engine). there's obviously money to be made.
- Hollister, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2No one understands sarcasm it would seem...
ohh thats right you forgot the "/sarcasm" thats why- Hamletlere, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Yeah, because sarcasm is easily detected with no cues (voice tone, /sarcasm, whatever).
Sorry, I'm an extremely sarcastic person, but it can be difficult in this medium. I play plenty of games, although I wouldn't call myself "hardcore" anymore, but I couldn't have told you how many games used the Unreal engine. I assumed, with no cues, that "moderately popular" meant "moderately popular". I don't tend to extensively research a given comment to find out if it was sarcasm or not, unless it REALLY interests me.
- Hamletlere, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Yeah, because sarcasm is easily detected with no cues (voice tone, /sarcasm, whatever).
- TnTBass, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1I love the sarcasm. Especially the bit about a PS2 port, as that would be as equally "backwards" as developing for the Wii.
- zephyear, on 04/21/2008, -18/+11"moderately popular"
- Tyrghast, on 04/21/2008, -6/+27Again just to reiterate: Epic develops, supports and makes a bajillion off of the UT engine. The latest rendition is so freaking great, it'll keep the company afloat for a long time.
- quraid, on 04/21/2008, -0/+6Epic's main bread-butter isn't the games but the engine itself. if that engine isn't there, so wouldn't be a lot of games. they may use other engines but those engines are usually too underpowered or too hardware intensive.
- Risingashes, on 04/21/2008, -9/+4All the games that Epic makes are useless on consoles. Nintendo doesn't care, no one should care.
- Memitim, on 04/21/2008, -9/+13Oh the irony from a company that has been remaking decade old games as their bread-and-butter.
- Zpanzer, on 04/21/2008, -5/+9Nintendo?
- jjpertusch, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2thats why its ironic, man
- Zpanzer, on 04/21/2008, -5/+9Nintendo?
- RussellDovey, on 04/21/2008, -7/+2Hey! Are you forgetting their greatest game of all time, Duke Nukem Forever? It's a sequel to Duke 3D, you see.
- deaftly, on 04/21/2008, -0/+23D Realms makes Duke
- Clixx13, on 04/21/2008, -1/+0Turn off your computer, crawl under your desk, and stay there.
NOW.
- walbold, on 04/21/2008, -7/+7Who cares about the Wii? they really only have two games right now. Mario Galaxy and Brawl its not like its a must have console.
- Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -5/+2You forgot Zelda, that brings the grand total up to...3.
- AmazingAndrex, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Metroid...
- zlimness, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Gamecube
- Paradoxymoron, on 04/21/2008, -5/+2You forgot Zelda, that brings the grand total up to...3.
- boombye, on 04/21/2008, -1/+6Or maybe it's because they're focusing on making content based around their engine, which will not work with the Wii's specs.
- Typhoon2009, on 04/21/2008, -1/+1I heard a license for Unreal Engine 3 is like $750,000
- SAHChandler, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2That's if you are a large company. If you are an indie dev you get it for a hell of a lot cheaper, base comes with 10 installs. Because if you look at Companies like Naked Sky entertainment, they sure as hell could NOT afford Unreal Engine 3 for roboblitz.
- Seemefearme, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2It cost much more to create your own engine. And chances are it won't be nearly as good as the UT3 engine.
- Clixx13, on 04/21/2008, -0/+0That, and it takes years and years and years, and probably more years to do it. Especially for this gen.
- mbonzo531, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3Ironic since I bought both of those games, played them twice and never looked at them again. Part of the reason I didn't even think about playing GoW was because I must beat zelda.
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1The Unreal Technology goes into a lot of games, and is very important to the Industry.
Their technology even goes into games that aren't Shooters, and onto platforms that Epic doesn't release on.
- WhereAmI, on 04/21/2008, -7/+63They also make that moderately popular Unreal engine. Bad news if the game division of Epic doesn't want anything to do with the Wii. But I suppose a nice PS2 port couldn't hurt.
- KingGoonie, on 04/21/2008, -92/+208Stupidest statement in history. As others pointed out above... it can be argued that the wii is more next gen then the other systems... Sure the 360/ps3 have better visuals... but thats just visuals. Wii gives you a different way of playing most of its games... so what is more "next gen" better graphics or a different play style? I mean really... People REALLY need to learn what the hell constitutes something moving into the next gen... not just in videogames but in everything...because better graphics is the same thing that has been happening ever new console since the Atari...so really its the same old same old... new system.. better graphics... when you get right down to it, its not really doing anything new. The wii is. Honestly to me this sounds like something a lazy developer will say. "What... what do you mean we can't just make the games prettier then the last one... what do you mean we have to change the entire thought process of what gaming is? Thats not going forward!" Silly,silly comment.
- WhereAmI, on 04/21/2008, -26/+13The Wii is a step back, and if you want my statement to have industry backing read this article:
http://www.megatonik.com/2008/04/20/mike-capps-say ... - estvir, on 04/21/2008, -20/+49You're giving the Wii too much credit for it's gameplay and forgetting the benefits good graphics bring, like helping the gamer be immersed. Also, they'er not changing the 'entire though process of what gaming is' all developers do is go "Ok, so in real life they'd move their hand to the left.. so I guess we make them do that with the Wiimote" -- Wow, that's really re-thinking the entire 'thought process.'
Also, different doesn't explicitly mean it's better. So far as far as gameplay goes, the Wii has kind of sucked. There are some stellar titles (Of which more or less all are first party Nintendo titles) but those are quite few and most of the 'amazing gameplay brought about by the Wii' consists of garbage games which are either mini-game repacks or games who attempted to use the Wiimote and sucked.
The "Nintendo has gameplay over grpahics" is a tired myth pushed by nonsensical kids in small boxes. You're going to have nightmares when you come to the realisation of what I've presented.
* By the way, there's going to be a ton of knee-jerk reactions by Wii fans to my post so I'll make it clear, I LIKE the Wii and I've had a ton of fun playing it (And I'll have a ton more once SSBB is released in Australia) but a lot of you are giving it too much credit for things it doesn't deserve and glossing [or plain ignoring] it's problems.
What will be interesting is when someone else (MS or Sony) come out with a fairly equivalent accessory to the Wiimote and than whatever console will have graphics, online, sound and, wait for it, the amazing 'gameplay' (I laugh every time I say that) brought about by the Wiimote.- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -9/+9There's also a ton of things I didn't cover like:
Developers/publishers would make more money on the X360 (RECORD SETTING attachment rate, it's near 8 now, multiplatform games tend to sell three fold, the platform with the most money spent on it, etc), quick/fun games like what the Wii gives us aren't the end all, 'fun' is subjective, people want 'serious' games, etc.
Have you ever thought about those things? There's also so many other things I haven't covered in either post.
There is next to nothing wrong with what Mike Capps [and others] have said.- DarkprinceArmon, on 04/21/2008, -0/+0I said this already, but most of my gaming library is on Wii. Although Xbox 360 share alot of top selling games in the ten list, I don't think the attach rate of the system is that much far off than the Wii.
- goldisalie, on 04/21/2008, -2/+16Excellent comment, and I'd just like to add that not only is this fanboy trying to redefine 'next generation' hardware to suit his own rabid fan love, but you missed some important points. Next gen hardware is not simply about graphics, what about physics? Game content and AI? These things require serious levels of hardware. Think of all the new avenues that open up when you can create much more interactive environments thanks to physics in gameplay. This is the sort of thing that is pushing games into the future.
Now I hate to burst your bubble fanboy (gparent, not you estvir), but sadly the wii is labelled last gen because it is LAST GEN HARDWARE. Jesus son do some research: it is a game cube, thats it, thats all. Oh no thats right they slightly improved the graphics hardware.... but that is irrelevant you say? Wii is called last gen because Wii IS last gen, you cannot argue that point, even Nintendo devs shouldn't argue that point (although I'm sure they do).- Daz3, on 04/21/2008, -4/+2"Next gen hardware is not simply about graphics, what about physics? Game content and AI?"
I have yet to see physics in a game that don't feel tacked on, the gravity gun in HL2 is probably the best exploitation of physics so far (in terms of how much the physics actually added to the game).
You are right, the Wii does contain last gen hardware. It also contains potential, a potential that has not yet been fully realized. Graphics, physics and AI, the things that you claim are the hallmarks of a next generation console, are all limited by hardware; it is all a rehash of a rehash of a rehash that will come to an end when the hardware needed to create those nice visuals becomes too expensive (see PS3). The creators of the Wii have foreseen this future and removed Nintendo from the 'next-gen' ***** contest by choosing to traverse a different path - the path of innovation, attempting to change the WAY we play.
My point is that comparisons between the Wii and the next generation consoles are entirely void, apples and oranges, squares and circles - choose your own cliche.
- Daz3, on 04/21/2008, -4/+2"Next gen hardware is not simply about graphics, what about physics? Game content and AI?"
- Daz3, on 04/21/2008, -3/+4"and forgetting the benefits good graphics bring, like helping the gamer be immersed."
I find Doom and Quake to be as immersing as Crysis.
"Also, they'er not changing the 'entire though process of what gaming is' all developers do is go "Ok, so in real life they'd move their hand to the left.. so I guess we make them do that with the Wiimote" -- Wow, that's really re-thinking the entire 'thought process.'"
Here you confuse the Wii with the games developed for the Wii - the lack of imagination and creativity shown by developers is in no way the fault of the console. Unfortunately, the potential of the Wii has not been fully realized and a lot of it does feel gimmicky. The Wii's first party games are basically examples of the potential that the console holds; yet third party developers just port games to the Wii and tack on wiimote functions.
"'amazing gameplay brought about by the Wii' consists of garbage games which are either mini-game repacks or games who attempted to use the Wiimote and sucked."
I agree, the console has not been fully realized; imagine what would ensue if the Wii was opened to the homebrew community.
Personally I see the Wii as neither moving backwards or forwards in the traditional 'next-gen' sense, but rather I see the Wii as moving sideways (or at least attempting to). Nintendo's next console is something that I am really looking forward to.- Di0genes, on 04/21/2008, -3/+3"I find Doom and Quake to be as immersing as Crysis."
You aren't doing it right.
- Di0genes, on 04/21/2008, -3/+3"I find Doom and Quake to be as immersing as Crysis."
- Risingashes, on 04/21/2008, -8/+4Graphics do not make the game.
Screw immersion. - random19, on 04/21/2008, -8/+3Yeah, you're giving too much credit to graphics. Go play Super Mario Galaxy and tell me it doesn't look better than any other game on the market. Who cares about graphics when everything in the game is either dust-colored, gun-metal, or jet black. Graphics aren't the be all end all of gaming.
- Forsakenmantra, on 04/21/2008, -2/+8No offense, and I'm probally going to be dugg down by Nintendo Fanboys, but Super Mario Galaxy is not the greatest looking game on the market. I own both a Wii, 360 and a computer that can play Crysis on Very High (which btw after an hour or so is so boring it doesnt matter). But I'm sorry to say that it isnt the prettiest. It's nice sure, and have played a lot of it, but you are using a bad example. Mario Galaxy uses almost NONE of the wii's motion controls except for crappy tacked on nonsense, like using the wii mote to pick up star bits. Totally gimimky and tacked on. I play Brawl with a GCN controller and I will probally do the same for Mario cart. And to be honest, if those games came out on any other system as well as the Wii I would never have bothered buying it. Its just that my love of Zelda and Metriod willed me too.
So take off your blinders and see that you bought the Wii for its exclusive titles and not because mario galaxy is the greatest looking game on the market. - KrustyTClown, on 04/21/2008, -1/+4What are you talking about? Take a look at uncharted, Warhawk, UT3 and then tell me Mario Galaxy is the best looking game on the market.
- random19, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Not all of us like gun-metal. Regardless of how shiny and reflective it is.
Joking aside, are you actually trying to tell me that Super Mario Galaxy has BAD graphics? I might have been exaggerating when I said it was the best looking game on the market, but it is still a beautiful game.
What I'm trying to say is that a game's appearance is more than just graphics. Color and attention to detail matter too. Two games that showcase both of those fantastically are Galaxy and Brawl. Two games that don't showcase both of those fantastically are Warhawk and UT3.
- random19, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Not all of us like gun-metal. Regardless of how shiny and reflective it is.
- Firgof, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Forsakenmantra: So then, we've come full circle? A wii game is -not- a wii game if it does not inclusively use the remote? So not only are you lauding on developers for using the wiimote but when they cannot use it due to the type of game they're creating you bash them for it when they try to at least -make- some gameplay elements that involve the controller?
You may respond: So if it didn't 'need' the Wiimote why did I buy it? That's simple: For when designers finally figure out how to use the darn thing without -over- using it or -under- using it. See: "Camera" buttons on the N64 (which were almost never used for their intended purpose).
And so what? If the Wii had 'next-gen hardware' and it also had Metal Gear Solid 4 coming out for it would that absolutely dethrone your ability to play it on the PS3 because the Wii 'costs less'? The console is only a vehicle and medium through which game designers run their games. If someone's trying to run a Ferrari like a construction vehicle it isn't going to be pretty even if the ride is insane. Vice verse with a truck and a landspeed test.
"Its just that my love of Zelda and Metriod [...]" Exactly. Your love of gameplay-centric games. And the Wii doesn't attempt to steer developers toward gameplay-centric games (And don't dare reply with 'yeah, but by binding their hands' as you will get cut down)? The Wii doesn't strive to create the very games that you enjoy? I don't know, I find it very funny that you pick two of the most renowned titles on the market, renowned before they came out due to their predecessors. Their predecessors being renowned for inventiveness and gameplay. From the standpoint of a developer, where would you go if you wanted to publish a game which had inventiveness and gameplay as central tenants to your style of gameplay? And don't use any other brand other than the companies themselves (nix Microsoft's XBOX for such first-party atrocities as "Fuzion Frenzy" and "Azurik: Rise of Perathia"; without their acquired developers they'd be awash in bad game design).- Forsakenmantra, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2See now either I didn't make myself clear enough or that maybe you didn't understand me. " So then, we've come full circle? A wii game is -not- a wii game if it does not inclusively use the remote?" That is exactly my point. Everyone complains that the Wii should be considered next-gen because of the innovation of the motion controls; that Nintendo chose innovation over power and graphics. And it is this point that I was saying was moot. The most popular games on the system do not use anything that I would truly call innovative in motion capturing technology. It was easier to aim in Zelda and pointless in Mario. Brawl sucks w/ the Wii remote and from what I've read Mario Kart is better w/ a controller.
I really don't know what you are going on about with your Ferrari nonsense, but I do know that the way Nintendo is targeting little children and the elderly for the Wii, developers are less likely to go out of the box on innovative game design. And the only reason I own my Wii is to play all of the tired but still I need to play them Nintendo titles.
- Forsakenmantra, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2See now either I didn't make myself clear enough or that maybe you didn't understand me. " So then, we've come full circle? A wii game is -not- a wii game if it does not inclusively use the remote?" That is exactly my point. Everyone complains that the Wii should be considered next-gen because of the innovation of the motion controls; that Nintendo chose innovation over power and graphics. And it is this point that I was saying was moot. The most popular games on the system do not use anything that I would truly call innovative in motion capturing technology. It was easier to aim in Zelda and pointless in Mario. Brawl sucks w/ the Wii remote and from what I've read Mario Kart is better w/ a controller.
- random19, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1eh I stand by my statement. I'm not wearing blinders (I don't think) and I've seen Warhawk and UT3 in action. I still say Super Mario Galaxy looks AS GOOD (saying its the best looking game on the market is, admittedly, an overexaggeration).
- KrustyTClown, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Sorry, but the clouds alone in Warhawk put Mario Galaxy to shame and UT3 and Uncharted are not GUNMETAL. They both have a ton of color and detail. especially Uncharted.
- Forsakenmantra, on 04/21/2008, -2/+8No offense, and I'm probally going to be dugg down by Nintendo Fanboys, but Super Mario Galaxy is not the greatest looking game on the market. I own both a Wii, 360 and a computer that can play Crysis on Very High (which btw after an hour or so is so boring it doesnt matter). But I'm sorry to say that it isnt the prettiest. It's nice sure, and have played a lot of it, but you are using a bad example. Mario Galaxy uses almost NONE of the wii's motion controls except for crappy tacked on nonsense, like using the wii mote to pick up star bits. Totally gimimky and tacked on. I play Brawl with a GCN controller and I will probally do the same for Mario cart. And to be honest, if those games came out on any other system as well as the Wii I would never have bothered buying it. Its just that my love of Zelda and Metriod willed me too.
- burnblue, on 04/21/2008, -3/+2Sure, if you want do an average of all games made then Wii gameplay isn't that great... same for the other consoles. The difference is the freedom, flexibility and potential that is in the controls, as evidenced by those stellar titles you mentioned. If Nintendo can make games that are so great for the Wii, I don't see why people judge the Wii by the crappiest games on it. games like Mario Galaxy looks as good as any other (given that you're the average viewer with a normal tv, not some 50inch HDTV.. I don't know the difference there). I have fun playing the good titles on Wii, and I get frustrated playing games on 360 and PS3 with their now-clunky controls. I don't know how else to evaluate it
- DarkprinceArmon, on 04/21/2008, -0/+0hey hey now. I have a 32 inch 1080p flat screen television and I don't think the Wii will look that bad with component cables, provided the developers actually took some time to prefect their trade on the system. The problem is the third parties, that just ***** out the products with out thinking about what makes good gameplay or great graphics on the Wii. I don't expect my Wii to look better than my PS3 on a TV that size, but I do expect developers to take some time working on what they produce for the Wii, rather than hitting the "port code" button.
- TnTBass, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Good comment.
That being said... I've never had my dad ask to play a game with me on my 360, or PS3. However, he will play games on the Wii (and he hates gaming).
So, next gen, or ass backwards? Does it really actually matter? The Wii has succeeded where other consoles have not. Each has their own target market, and for the Wii, the target market is most anyone.
- estvir, on 04/21/2008, -9/+9There's also a ton of things I didn't cover like:
- cRmtIMe, on 04/21/2008, -16/+47I don't know. To me, the motion sensor thing wears off pretty quick and I feel like I'm just playing gamecube while swinging my arms. I think the 360 is definitely more next gen than the wii.
- badassninja, on 04/21/2008, -15/+2And you have let MS define what is next gen for you.
- Ignignokt01, on 04/21/2008, -1/+9And conversely, you've let nintendo define it for you. Lets face it, 'next-gen' doesn't mean anything. Nintendo is genius at marketing their product, but when it comes to producing hardware, the wii's sucks in comparison to whats in the ps3 or 360 or a modern gaming computer, and that matters... a lot, especially to developers who want to take advantage of good solid hardware. The motion sensory stuff is cool and all (becoming a standard in gaming) but saying that it defines 'next-gen' is like saying the N64 was ahead a generation because it had rumble when starfox came out and the other systems didn't have rumble.
- KingGoonie, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2The N64 basically popularized 3D gaming too... wich Mario 64. And it also has at least 3 games in what are considered the 10 best games of all time...
- Kelmon, on 04/21/2008, -9/+5What makes the 360 "next generation"? What does it do that the previous iteration of consoles didn't (insert own RROD gag here)? Sure, the Wii would be more impressive if also packed in a supercomputer but then it would also have to be bigger and more expensive. I honestly think that Nintendo have got the balance right on this generation by not going for super graphics - I'll be damned if I'm paying the prices that Sony and Microsoft want for a console.
At this stage, Nintendo would do best to focus their attention on producing a good online experience, particularly for a console with WiFi built-in. - goldisalie, on 04/21/2008, -3/+4Kelmon, the 360 is next generation hardware... because it is the next generation of xbox hardware! What the hell is there to talk about here?? It is not the Xbox, it is new hardware, and thus 'next generation'. It has faster processing, better graphics and a multitude of other things. The Wii is a gamecube, it is decidedly NOT the next generation of hardware over the gamecube, it IS the gamecube.
- zeebo, on 04/21/2008, -3/+1So switching platforms entirely makes the xbox360 the 'next-gen xbox', whereas the Wii using an improved version of the gamecube's platform is 'just a gamecube'? The Wii is the next-generation gamecube, its hardware has been substantially upgraded but its still the same platform, much like the DS vs the GBA. The xbox360 is a completely different machine from the xbox. In fact, you could say that the Xbox360 is like the Wii, a next-gen gamecube. Both the gamecube and the 360 had custom processors from IBM, both had prototype ATI graphics chips both of which utilize a on-die framebuffer.
- Forsakenmantra, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3@ Zeebo
The 360 and PS3 are next generation systems because they use the latest hardware. The Wii is about as powerful as the original XBox. Hence it is not next generation, it is the generation before the use of the new hardware. Do some research before you randomly spout out nonsense and semantics.
- DarkprinceArmon, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1How may Wii games require full body motion movement to play?
- badassninja, on 04/21/2008, -15/+2And you have let MS define what is next gen for you.
- slightlygifted, on 04/21/2008, -8/+21theres more than just graphics a faster proccessor can do. better physics, ai , enviroment interaction (shooting a wall and it falls down) stuff you cant do on a wii. and some people honestly just think the wii mote makes it harder to play games. i myself own a wii and only play ssbb cause you can use a gc controller with it. half the time when you wiggle your wiimote to swing your sword in zelda it doesnt work. ITS ***** BROKEN.
- Kelmon, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2How much interaction can you have with a standard joypad? It's a trite example, but the interaction that you get in Metroid Prime 3 by having to use the Wiimote gestures to grab handles, pull them, twist them, and set them back to open some doors is much more immersive than what can be achieved with a joypad. Sure, making the Wii more powerful would make it a better system if it could retain its current form-factor and price, but you can't substitute physical interaction with virtual.
Honestly, I don't see the issue. Do we think there are examples of great AI on other systems that couldn't be replicated on the Wii?- HolyChimp, on 04/21/2008, -1/+3Yes, you can do all that, but would you rather have the ability to move a handle realistically in real time, or everything slightlygifted just said? Personally, if I open a door I want to just press the open door button and move on. Opening doors isn't what I play games for. I play games for the "physics, ai , enviroment interaction" and yes the graphics, because given the choice between Ok graphics or awesome graphics I'll choose awesome.
- louiedog, on 04/21/2008, -0/+3The first time I opened a door by grabbing a handle and twisting I wondered why the hell they added it to the game. It's STUPID. It doesn't make the game more fun. It's just tacked on. I'd much rather press the X button and get on with playing the game. Who wants to play a handle turning simulator? I didn't feel immersed in the game at all. It took me out of it by requiring me to perform a tedious, mundane action.
- KingGoonie, on 04/21/2008, -5/+3The sword doesnt work in Zelda for you? Your broken, not the wii.
- Daz3, on 04/21/2008, -1/+2Isn't 'The Force Unleashed' to be released on the Wii?
- joshuabowers, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Yes, but it will, supposedly, have a toned down implementation of the three core physics engines that will be running on the PS3 and 360.
- mrgreen4242, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1The Wii is certainly more powerful than the original XBox, I think even the most rabid fanboys have come to agree on that at least. There were several games that had destructible environments, more than passable AI, and and realistic physics in them. Saying the Wii isn't capable of this is just silly.
There's a few games using the Havok physics engine either out or coming out shortly, proving there's clearly the power there. People are starting to push the graphics a bit now, too. The 360 and PS3 were evolutionary products. Developers knew what to do with it out of the gate, there was just a bit of a learning curve for the hardware. One of the best looking games for the 360 (and any system this generation, really), Gears of War, came out within the first year of the 360's release.
People thought that developing for the Wii would be more simple than the 360/PS3 because the hardware similarities between it and the GameCube, but it's really the other way around. Developers are just starting to get a hang of what to DO with the system and it's funky little remote. There wasn't any real mental shift involved in Halo 3... up the resolution, make better models, design bigger levels, create prettier textures, release game. Not a whole lot of mental sweat there (in terms of overall game design, not the actual game production - those guys work hard, I'm not belittling them).
Trying to invent a new way to play though just takes time. Once people figure it they can start evolving those games into something better... it's just a process that the other two don't really have. In any case, people clearly think Nintendo is on to something, they've sold 20 million consoles in a year and a half. That's insane.
Nintendo also tends to follow a pattern of innovate, evolve, innovate, etc. (NES->SNES, N64->GameCube, Wii->???). I predict the next Nintendo system will be a Wii with HD graphics, something more or less between the 360 and PS3 with some subtle improvements to the Wii remote/nunchuck design. And it will still cost
- Kelmon, on 04/21/2008, -2/+2How much interaction can you have with a standard joypad? It's a trite example, but the interaction that you get in Metroid Prime 3 by having to use the Wiimote gestures to grab handles, pull them, twist them, and set them back to open some doors is much more immersive than what can be achieved with a joypad. Sure, making the Wii more powerful would make it a better system if it could retain its current form-factor and price, but you can't substitute physical interaction with virtual.
- baylat, on 04/21/2008, -0/+6Sigh, again, its not about the graphics, but the CPU power.
- Varz, on 04/21/2008, -3/+7I think most refer to the Wii as 'New Gen' rather than 'Next Gen'. It's not without its merits though most gamers/hardcore gamers wouldn't be happy if the industry follows the Wii.
Could you imagine playing Oblivion, COD4 or DMC4 on the Wii, they would look like
- WhereAmI, on 04/21/2008, -26/+13The Wii is a step back, and if you want my statement to have industry backing read this article: