If the document is real it still does not prove the existence of aliens.
All it shows is that there was a report of these things, or rather, "someone" reported his/her account of "something."
it seems conclusive to me... FTA...more like from the OG.doc "An investigator for the Air Force stated that three so-called flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico."
While this doesn't confirm that these came from somewhere other than earth, it is interesting.
If they are not from Earth, the odd thing I find is that the UFO's had supposed trouble with radio waves but were sophisticated enough to not burn up when entering the atmosphere.
Anyone have other explanations for this?
One I can think of is a psychological warfare operation (psyop). US? Russia? Someone else?
Who knows really....It would be nice if us citizens were "privileged" with the information of the government we pay for.
Agreed, I think of it this way, we could've known about it for a long long time and been keeping it secret... "crashed because of radio waves" also sounds ridiculous to me, and could also totally mean we were waiting and shot that s**t down just phrased it better...or blasted some other frequency or the dude didnt know what he was talking about and didnt know radio waves aren't the same as all EMR waves...but I mean who knows.
...Or your right and this is some misinformation s**t. F that if it is.
Radar was invented during WWII. It uses pulses of sound waves to determine things like distance and a speed by reading the waves that are bounced back by the object being tracked. We use the tech to navigate our air vehicles, tracking them from the ground, but also in the way an airliner pings the ground to determine altitude with a radio altimeter.
When they tell you to turn of your cell phone on a plane - that's because they are worried that the signals from multiple cell transceivers will jam that altimeter during take-off and landing, making for incorrect altitude readings. Incorrect altitude readings lead to hard landings.
This is the nature of most human communication technology as well, and has been since right around the time we put this tech together in a meaningful way - right around the time of the Roswell incident - incidentally.
And let's not forget that radar jamming was developed at the same time.
The idea that some kind of radar installation might have accidentally or purposefully jammed the navigation systems of an aerial vehicle is completely within the realm of logic and reason. And as to why the incident wasn't repeated - if we assume jamming was the cause for the sake of argument, it's not outlandish to speculate that these ET technicians could have developed something akin to spread spectrum modulation to avoid further problems, just as we have in our military.
The Space Shuttle can re-enter our atmosphere as well, and it's not immune to jamming. I make no claim to knowing, but the suggestion is certainly plausible.
Also,
"When they tell you to turn of your cell phone on a plane - that's because they are worried that the signals from multiple cell transceivers will jam that altimeter during take-off and landing, making for incorrect altitude readings. Incorrect altitude readings lead to hard landings." - What?
This isn't true at all. Planes (large and small) have static tubes (flush with the side fuselage of the plane) and pitot tubes (forward facing) that are used for the air instrumentation like the air speed indicator and the altimeter. The altimeter is set and adjusted based on air pressure by checking the local METARs (aviation weather) and getting local pressure in the air by calling air traffic control.
Cell phones don't mess with the instrumentation of the plane. I fly small planes and everyone I know leaves their phones on in the air. The real reason they want you to turn off your phone in a commercial jet probably has more to do with the FTC than the FAA. Cell phones connect to towers by line of site (not completely, but almost) so when you're close enough to connect to the towers then your phone, and everyone else on the plane will try to connect to a lot of towers and really jam up communication unnecessarily. By FAA regulation, the pilot is the final decision maker on what is approved or not on their given flights.
All of that said, when flying IFR (instrument), I prefer to have my phone on airplane mode just in case.
That's why I said - not completely, but almost - because Cell phones are low enough power that although they can get through many obstructions, the power needed to do so goes up geometrically the more layers the radio signal needs to travel through. In terms of geological structures they really are nearly line of site.
To be honest. If they were aliens, and they did travel hundreds and hundred of light years, their technology would be far superior to ours. I doubt a 'deep space craft' would be crippled by radio waves.
Not to mention, outer space is MUCH more rich in various types of radiation. It would seem silly for a craft to survive being bombarded with gamma bursts, UV rays, cosmic radiation and then crashing because of a radar. It's like a tank exploding when pooped on by a bird.
No way are commercial aircraft altimiters affected by cell phone transmissions. Insisting that all passengers disable their electronic gear is just psychological conditioning to remind them who's in charge.
Maybe using high powered radio waves to detect things never occurred to aliens before? Maybe in their home planet, using radio waves simply wouldn't have worked in their atmosphere, and the background levels in space were inconsequential. And then they come here, their first contact with extraterrestrial life (from their perspective), and we shoot 5 motherf**kin megawatts at them. "What the f**k?", they might have said.
1 The witnesses are military. The military are not in the loop on classified projects. Think about it. Do you really want guys how can get captured to know about this?
2 What Bodies?
3 If you have real alien physical evidence we'd all like to see it. Sorry but balloon parts don't count.
I'm only half way through. While it is interesting, I agree that he is indeed an alien. It helped that I was clued in before watching the video, because then I could recognize his alien behavior better. A chalk board in this century? No white board? Are aliens allergic to white board markers?
Thanks so much for the link sproket! I thoroughly enjoyed that physicist's explanation. Too bad he's an alien masquerading as a humble physics prof ;). I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a 90 min movie but these 70 mins were definitely well spent. Kudos!
That is the worst explanation that I have ever heard for the Roswell incident. Not only unlikely but extremely improbable. Is it more probable that the military had a secret listening device fail and then lied about it? Or, is it more probable that the more simple explanation that evidence testimony from dozens of witnesses and eye witness accounts (which were all suppressed) were true and the government covered it up, so as not to alarm the public, and has been studying the alien craft which has led to leaps in technology. Even retired astronauts have said that they have seen UFO's in space and some have said they even saw the crafts themselves, they have absolutely no incentive to lie.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
That is the best explanation that I have ever heard for the Roswell incident. Not only likely but extremely probable. Is it more probable that the military had a secret for those balloons other then searching for bomb noises?
i fixed it for you, at least the first part. and man its all us.
nothing is better then the truth. but i was hoping for a weapon that uses the atmospheric sound channel and the US had used it to shoot down or disrupt a UFO and had caused it to crash.
I am on the side of logic and reason.
Of course I relish the idea of aliens visiting us.
But until I meet one, as Carl Sagan famously said:
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." :)
well, using occams razor is sort of a double edged sword for this one dont you think? id say occam is telling us that based on the fact that we have life on our planet, there should be life on others. doesnt mean anything else but plain and simple "they exist". them COMING to earth...thats another story for occam, especially when you think about how crazy our society is. whos to say what theyd want to subject us to...and is that all of us, or leaders or the world? who knows. I just KNOW they exist.
True enough about the possibility of life existing elsewhere, IMHO. But that doesn't really say anything about the veracity of the document or the Roswell Incident.
@noman619
it would be the simplest explanation but it doesn't mean it's true. unless you were there then you might know what actually happened. otherwise its blindly believing what the government tells people.
You don't have to meet the president to know he exists. You don't have to have an anal probe to believe we're being visited. Get your head out of your ass.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Not sure what you're try to say, ophello, you pretty much described what Occam's Razor is. We can safely say that the President exists without seeing him, because it makes significantly more sense than him not existing, and it all being a conspiracy. However, you cannot apply the same logic to UFOs, sure, it's possible they exist, but the other option: that it's just wishful thinking; is just as likely, if not more.
True: one doesn't need to meet the president to be assured of his existence. You can also view videos and photographs of him from various points in his life taken by many sources and, especially upon his introduction to the public eye, many of these visual records depict the same unambiguous activity. You can find audio recordings of his speeches. You can research his life from many credible on-and-offline publications. You can touch physical pieces of evidence connected to his past and even technically contact his parent/parents. Point being, there's ample proof that the president exists. The same can't be said for claims of extra-terrestrial visitation.
1. doesn't need to meet the president to be assured of his existence
2. You can also view videos and photographs of him from various points in his life
3. You can find audio recordings of his speeches.
4. You can research his life from many credible on-and-offline publications.
5. You can touch physical pieces of evidence connected to his past and even technically contact his parent/parents.
6. Point being, there's ample proof that the president exists.
There just isn't any proof that he is not an illegal alien who has pulled the greatest con job on earth by becoming President without a birth certificate proving he was born in the U.S.!
ophello - get off your own ass and present us with a SINGLE undeniable fact that proofs that aliens exist. Something that cannot be explained by weather patterns, military aircraft, weather balloons or wishful thinking.
You sound just like the countless other believers I run into who get all pissy when I point out the fact that there is no real proof aliens are here or ever were here.None what so ever. As for the existence of intelligent alien life. WE are the best and only proof they likely exist OUT THERE. That does not mean you can make s**t up and claim they are here. If you want to believe they are here fine but if you are going to ask others to buy into your belief you are going to give us more than your feeling or stories.
to believe the earth is the only place that harbors life is just plain silly. you don't need proof to know that. in the milky way there is an estimated 100 - 400 billion stars. outside that there are clusters of galaxies that some have more and some have less. then there are clusters of clusters of galaxies called super clusters. even if only 1% of all of those stars out there that holds a solar system that contains some planet or moon or other that can actually support life and only 1% of those actually does have life then we're still probably looking at a number that rival the number of each an every person that exists on earth. now I'm not going to say that those are actual statistics but they seem realistic to me.
Indeed, but what about Fermi's Paradox?
The Drake equation is at odds with them.
I think the answer lies between the two.
In other words, there exists other life, however they choose not to reveal themselves.
Two things about Fermi's Paradox:
1) For all we know, every single solar system in the universe might populated with intelligent life. We don't have telescopes strong enough to see even the surface of planets in our own solar system, let alone systems lightyears away.
2) They might "choose" not to reveal themselves, or they might simply have never noticed us. We don't choose "to reveal ourselves" to colonies of ants because we know that they aren't capable of communicating with us. The evolutionary gap between ourselves and ants is many orders of magnitude smaller than the gap between us and extraterrestrial life, just based on simple probability, given the age of the universe.
First extraordinary claims came from people that said the world was round. Then came the claim that man can fly. After came the claim that man could walk on the moon. What about the claim concerning God? I say 'impossible exists only in the mind.
All of the extra ordinary claims you mention came with extraordinary evidence. That is how we know they are true.
As for the existence of God, that also is an extra ordinary claim. So far, no evidence at all, ordinary, or extra ordinary has ever presented itself.
So let me get this straight. American 1950's radar technology knocked out an advanced alien space craft in flight. A craft that was most likely designed to withstand space radiation during long distance flight.
Here is it 2011 and we have more advanced radar technology and there are no reports of alien spacecraft being knocked out of the sky due to this equipment.
I do believe there must be advanced life out there in other worlds, but doubt any have visited us (at least not recently), due to the vast distances between probable life sustaining planets.
They were supposed to be released this year. early. either the CIA is doing something or wiki-leaks has been busy on something that must be bigger then UFOS and UFOs are really nothing special. but if UFOS are real phenomenon then you can bet whoever is running the show is not just going to let it get out
Here's a list of what does NOT constitute proof according to consensus:
1. A video or photo of the crash or an alien. Photos and Videos are obviously fake.
2. Statements from people involved. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
3. The UFO or physical alien objects. Hoaxes by people who want attention.
So if video, photos, statements, and physical objects don't count, what is on the list of things that do constitute proof?
It's not that none of them count, it's that none of them *alone* count. A core basis of the scientific toolset is that no one piece of evidence proves anything.
1.) Countless videos and photographs depicting *something* have been made. The videos are mostly unsteady, pixelated, and show only highly ambiguous lights or shadows. The photographs can be described very much the same way, but are even less compelling as a still shot of any point of light or streak or dark blob can be one of a thousand things. The ones that do possess any kind of clarity tend to show a UFO (used in the popular extra-terrestrial context) *too* well, well enough that one has to immediately question why nobody other than the photographer witness it.
2.) You nailed it. Anecdotal evidence is the absolute lowest form of it. Humans are very fallible in a large number of ways (memories that are flighty and susceptible to corruption; rationality influenced by emotion and preconceptions; wired to seek patterns where there aren't necessarily any). However, it can be useful in directing further research. If 50 different people all attest to having observed roughly the same thing, it might be worth checking out.
3.) There haven't been any physical "alien" objects found on earth, unless you count debris from asteroids, meteors, other planets, etc. If a civilization is advanced enough to have gained the capability of interstellar travel, one would expect an object purported to be alien-made to posses some properties seen nowhere else on Earth, or made with unearthly technology. Unsurprisingly, physical evidence is the least commonly found. Stories and pictures are way easier to create.
I think a huge breakdown in communication between believers and non-believers is that both sides don't realize they're both subscribing to a particular doctrine without ever questioning, challenging, or re-examining their own position.
Believers think aliens have visited us and any attempt to define their experiences and theories using any other explanation is dismissed out of hand.
Non-believers believe in non-belief itself. When new data becomes available, they don't even pause to examine it, exactly like the believers, they dismiss any evidence out of hand.
There's so much bias on both sides it's hard to stand.
Why can't this report simply be a piece of evidence that can now be examined collectively with other evidence. I don't even understand why everyone just looks at the report and declares "This doesn't prove anything!"
You'd be foolish to accept this report as isolated proof of alien existence. However, it's just as foolish to disregard it because the document doesn't stand on its own as a beacon of proof in and of itself.
Analogously, a doctor doesn't run a blood test, see a slightly elevated level of some enzyme and declare either "Well that doesn't prove anything!" or "It's Lupus!" No, he collects it with the other results until some kind of picture forms, he doesn't require each individual test to either fully indicate a disease or not..
You win, I give up. I've tried repeatedly to inform people that science does not prove theories true. Fortunately, a lot of people seem to be using a different science than I learned. One which gives absolute answers to every question and every scientific theory is simply "completely true". And I'm glad you have that tool in your belt. I'm stuck with my rusty old science that is filled with uncertainties, error margins, and outliers.
I'm left to wonder why there are so many scientists in the world testing scientific theories that are already proven to be completely true.
Another core basis of science is a willingness not to dismiss real evidence when it doesn't support your theory.
Radar recording from ground and air-based radar, and hundreds of witnesses AND multiple pictures were the evidence for the sightings in 1952 in Washington DC. There were pictures on the front page of the multiple newspapers worldwide. But I guess air force pilots are just too unreliable at air reconnaissance to know the difference between weather and multiple moving targets penetrating restricted airspace. Really!?
There are hundreds of videos and pictures that demonstrate this phenomenon to be real. There are hundreds of military and professional pilot testimonies to support the extra-terrestrial theory. The highest ranking member in the Belgian Air Command agrees; after dealing with country's own mass sightings.
Please wake up. This memo was released on the FBI website and people are questioning it's authenticity? That is bold. Guy Hottel was a real agent and he submitted this memo to the Director of the FBI - Edgar Hoover. You think for one second a special agent is going to waste the time of the Director with bulls**t? I don't think so - the document has been authenticated. The Roswell incident was witnessed by multiple people who spoke about during their life times. There is rigorous evidence of a cover-up at the highest levels of government. This memo confirms it.
I'm sorry but the idea that a reconnaissance team of extra-terrestrials went down in New Mexico, were recovered by the Air Force which reported it in the media, and later covered it up seems much less far-fetched than the idea that the American government is telling the truth about all of this.
We now know that Earth-like planets are common place. We also know that our theories of the physical laws of nature are incomplete - Newton, Einstein, and Feynman notwithstanding. We have hundreds of photos, we have hundreds of videos, we have thousands of eyewitnesses, many of them military. We have radar recordings. We have declassified documents.
What we don't have is alien tech or alien bodies. Except now it appears that we have both. People keep calling it bulls**t as the evidence stacks up...
That little document dump had more interesting things to reveal. The scariest so far:
A document requesting more information on two AAF investigators, a Captain William L. Davidson and Lt. Frank M. Brown, of San Francisco HQ, who were in Portland, Washington to interview "experienced pilots" who had reported seeing disc, including 4 pilots said to be among the first to report these discs. This took place in July 1947
Both men were killed when their plane - which the Oregonian newspaper had reported was carrying disc debris - crashed in Kelso 5 days later. AAF thought it credible enough to send AAF intelligence to investigate the crash site.
And a follow up document confirms that one of those gentlemen was on a top secret mission for the CIC - Army Counterintelligence Corps.
I'm not making any of this up - it's right there in the documents. Seems like an awful lot of paperwork for swamp gas.
I find it very hard to believe a radar system would have caused a UFO to crash. There are plenty of sources of natural radio waves, which is what radar uses. There are plenty of stronger sources of radio waves in the universe compared to man made radar. Even lightning can make radio waves. So to have a ship susceptible to such a thing, especially at low energy, would make it unfeasible for any kind of space travel.
Even if they landed a ship in the middle lawn outside the whitehouse...or whever ever that it broadcast on TV...there are those out there that claim it was a hoax...because they are just assh**es that way.
Ok so now we see the truth but why all the secrecy in the first place. I never understood the point in hiding the information. I wish we could see the space crafts and the aliens. That would be nice to see.
My grandfather reviewed the metal recovered after it was transferred to WPAFB. He was a metals expert for the USAF brought to the US under Operation Paper Clip after WWII. They used to have a piece of the "weather ballon" on display at the Air Force Museum. One day we were there together, he explained to me that the metal he actually inspected had unknown symbols on it and was as strong as anything he had seen, but lighter than any known material at that time. It was not human in origin according to him.
It's not wrong to ask the question - it is the first question, really. But this document has provenance. It appears to have been released with a plethora of items declassified to support the hoax theory - such as a debunking of the MAJESTIC -12 documents that were recovered by the Dallas branch in 1988. Fairly ironic, really.
Woah, this story is pretty awesome. I have a blog that I'm working on focused on all things UFO, if you want to check it out, I'd really appreciate your input and support via following.
xtomtomxApr 8, 2011
If the document is real it still does not prove the existence of aliens.
All it shows is that there was a report of these things, or rather, "someone" reported his/her account of "something."
Reports only are not proper evidence.
Still pretty cool though.
smurfzApr 8, 2011
You just killed all my hopes and dreams.
xtomtomxApr 8, 2011
No sir, logic so far has been the culprit.
(Personally I also dream of a day when we make contact)
norman619Apr 9, 2011
Then may I suggest you aim a little higher with your hopes and dreams?
afizzledbearApr 9, 2011
I don't know. meeting aliens is a pretty awesome dream
breadfredApr 9, 2011
Yeah, if you are into anal probing that is.
/s
darthaxelsonApr 13, 2011
why always with the anal probing. Anybody see Paul? What could possibly up one's posterior that an extraterrestrial could find so interesting?
laborerApr 8, 2011
Makes a bit more sense now. Thanks.
pdemmertApr 8, 2011
it seems conclusive to me... FTA...more like from the OG.doc "An investigator for the Air Force stated that three so-called flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico."
norman619Apr 9, 2011
That some craft crashed. This is hardly proof alien ships crashed there.
pdemmertApr 9, 2011
agreed. also like how it doesnt say what the deal with the bodies was either. what a shame.
nikowolfApr 9, 2011
its true! haven't you seen "independents day"? :P
theonewhoknowsApr 8, 2011
It worked for the Mormons.
njdoo7Apr 8, 2011
While this doesn't confirm that these came from somewhere other than earth, it is interesting.
If they are not from Earth, the odd thing I find is that the UFO's had supposed trouble with radio waves but were sophisticated enough to not burn up when entering the atmosphere.
Anyone have other explanations for this?
One I can think of is a psychological warfare operation (psyop). US? Russia? Someone else?
Who knows really....It would be nice if us citizens were "privileged" with the information of the government we pay for.
fxspec06Apr 8, 2011
silly wabbit, we don't pay for information. we pay for the feeling of protection
MSaltmarshApr 8, 2011
My protection is warm and smells of elderberries :D
pdemmertApr 8, 2011
Agreed, I think of it this way, we could've known about it for a long long time and been keeping it secret... "crashed because of radio waves" also sounds ridiculous to me, and could also totally mean we were waiting and shot that s**t down just phrased it better...or blasted some other frequency or the dude didnt know what he was talking about and didnt know radio waves aren't the same as all EMR waves...but I mean who knows.
...Or your right and this is some misinformation s**t. F that if it is.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
Radar was invented during WWII. It uses pulses of sound waves to determine things like distance and a speed by reading the waves that are bounced back by the object being tracked. We use the tech to navigate our air vehicles, tracking them from the ground, but also in the way an airliner pings the ground to determine altitude with a radio altimeter.
When they tell you to turn of your cell phone on a plane - that's because they are worried that the signals from multiple cell transceivers will jam that altimeter during take-off and landing, making for incorrect altitude readings. Incorrect altitude readings lead to hard landings.
This is the nature of most human communication technology as well, and has been since right around the time we put this tech together in a meaningful way - right around the time of the Roswell incident - incidentally.
And let's not forget that radar jamming was developed at the same time.
The idea that some kind of radar installation might have accidentally or purposefully jammed the navigation systems of an aerial vehicle is completely within the realm of logic and reason. And as to why the incident wasn't repeated - if we assume jamming was the cause for the sake of argument, it's not outlandish to speculate that these ET technicians could have developed something akin to spread spectrum modulation to avoid further problems, just as we have in our military.
The Space Shuttle can re-enter our atmosphere as well, and it's not immune to jamming. I make no claim to knowing, but the suggestion is certainly plausible.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
Radar uses radio waves, not sound waves.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
Thank you.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
Also,
"When they tell you to turn of your cell phone on a plane - that's because they are worried that the signals from multiple cell transceivers will jam that altimeter during take-off and landing, making for incorrect altitude readings. Incorrect altitude readings lead to hard landings." - What?
This isn't true at all. Planes (large and small) have static tubes (flush with the side fuselage of the plane) and pitot tubes (forward facing) that are used for the air instrumentation like the air speed indicator and the altimeter. The altimeter is set and adjusted based on air pressure by checking the local METARs (aviation weather) and getting local pressure in the air by calling air traffic control.
Cell phones don't mess with the instrumentation of the plane. I fly small planes and everyone I know leaves their phones on in the air. The real reason they want you to turn off your phone in a commercial jet probably has more to do with the FTC than the FAA. Cell phones connect to towers by line of site (not completely, but almost) so when you're close enough to connect to the towers then your phone, and everyone else on the plane will try to connect to a lot of towers and really jam up communication unnecessarily. By FAA regulation, the pilot is the final decision maker on what is approved or not on their given flights.
All of that said, when flying IFR (instrument), I prefer to have my phone on airplane mode just in case.
nikowolfApr 9, 2011
they don't connect through line of site, that would be more akin to infrared. but your right is interference that is trying to be avoided.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
That's why I said - not completely, but almost - because Cell phones are low enough power that although they can get through many obstructions, the power needed to do so goes up geometrically the more layers the radio signal needs to travel through. In terms of geological structures they really are nearly line of site.
fluffytmeApr 9, 2011
To be honest. If they were aliens, and they did travel hundreds and hundred of light years, their technology would be far superior to ours. I doubt a 'deep space craft' would be crippled by radio waves.
jarasmenApr 9, 2011
Not to mention, outer space is MUCH more rich in various types of radiation. It would seem silly for a craft to survive being bombarded with gamma bursts, UV rays, cosmic radiation and then crashing because of a radar. It's like a tank exploding when pooped on by a bird.
ogopogoApr 9, 2011
No way are commercial aircraft altimiters affected by cell phone transmissions. Insisting that all passengers disable their electronic gear is just psychological conditioning to remind them who's in charge.
addiktionApr 9, 2011
Yeah they loaded up all their midgets and sent them on a psyop mission...
nikowolfApr 9, 2011
black munchkin ops :P
quickgold192Apr 9, 2011
Maybe using high powered radio waves to detect things never occurred to aliens before? Maybe in their home planet, using radio waves simply wouldn't have worked in their atmosphere, and the background levels in space were inconsequential. And then they come here, their first contact with extraterrestrial life (from their perspective), and we shoot 5 motherf**kin megawatts at them. "What the f**k?", they might have said.
Closed AccountApr 8, 2011
Sigh not again.
Roswell explained:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622&ei=DoRESannBJLAqAL5p7z4DA&q=physics
It will take an hour but it explains the Roswell UFO stuff and why it was classified.
More fascinating IMO than aliens....
fodderboiApr 8, 2011
Thanks sproket. I thumbs up your post.
bcronosApr 8, 2011
Interesting, except it ignores the witnesses, the physical evidence, the bodies, etc.
Closed AccountApr 8, 2011
1 The witnesses are military. The military are not in the loop on classified projects. Think about it. Do you really want guys how can get captured to know about this?
2 What Bodies?
3 If you have real alien physical evidence we'd all like to see it. Sorry but balloon parts don't count.
bcronosApr 8, 2011
Perhaps you are not that familiar with the story. Check this page:
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicroswell.htm
trythinking1stApr 8, 2011
great source btw.
\s
bcronosApr 9, 2011
Ahhh... Believe the government instead of the people who were there then...
enantiodromiaApr 9, 2011
bcronos has made it his life work posting and believing the most asinine junk on the internet.
its no surprise he is getting defensive now.
rudegarApr 9, 2011
"Ahhh... Believe the government instead of the people who were there then..."
more so when the the govenment are lizzards
http://www.security-faqs.com/are-the-british-royal-family-shapeshifting-lizards-stop-sgentlemening-at-the-back.html
Closed AccountApr 8, 2011
Nice reputable sources. NOT.
StonnaApr 9, 2011
if you really want people to believe you your going to have to get evidence yourself. look all you want on the internet you wont find it.
enantiodromiaApr 9, 2011
hah, i knew you were a loony whacko.
bcronosApr 9, 2011
Hah, (proper capitalization) I know you have to throw insults because of a lack of cognitive thought and analysis of the subject at hand, but...
Please stop stalking me, I TOLD YOU, I'M NOT GAY...
neozeedApr 8, 2011
awesome! i'm 2/3rd the way through it's GREAT stuff... Although now I wonder why they are going to cancel the eq monitoring........
mhuntApr 9, 2011
I'm only half way through. While it is interesting, I agree that he is indeed an alien. It helped that I was clued in before watching the video, because then I could recognize his alien behavior better. A chalk board in this century? No white board? Are aliens allergic to white board markers?
recconnedApr 8, 2011
Thanks so much for the link sproket! I thoroughly enjoyed that physicist's explanation. Too bad he's an alien masquerading as a humble physics prof ;). I can't remember the last time I sat down to watch a 90 min movie but these 70 mins were definitely well spent. Kudos!
D1gst1llsuxApr 9, 2011
That is the worst explanation that I have ever heard for the Roswell incident. Not only unlikely but extremely improbable. Is it more probable that the military had a secret listening device fail and then lied about it? Or, is it more probable that the more simple explanation that evidence testimony from dozens of witnesses and eye witness accounts (which were all suppressed) were true and the government covered it up, so as not to alarm the public, and has been studying the alien craft which has led to leaps in technology. Even retired astronauts have said that they have seen UFO's in space and some have said they even saw the crafts themselves, they have absolutely no incentive to lie.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
Well I guess you can't teach tards...
StonnaApr 9, 2011
That is the best explanation that I have ever heard for the Roswell incident. Not only likely but extremely probable. Is it more probable that the military had a secret for those balloons other then searching for bomb noises?
i fixed it for you, at least the first part. and man its all us.
jpyumulApr 9, 2011
I want to go there and cut that freaking wire blocking the professor's face!
StonnaApr 9, 2011
nothing is better then the truth. but i was hoping for a weapon that uses the atmospheric sound channel and the US had used it to shoot down or disrupt a UFO and had caused it to crash.
Great video nonetheless
limeparrotApr 9, 2011
Dude awesome lecture. Highly recommended. I'm surprised I watched the whole thing and so will you. Thanks for the link.
iamausernameApr 10, 2011
That video was awesome, it inspired me to watch the other videos in the series, thanks! :)
kenjuraApr 8, 2011
Um...how about some more details?
Pdub_killaApr 8, 2011
I read this crap and it basically says nothing, like you said how about some details.
shenerdApr 8, 2011
The truth is out there.
xtomtomxApr 8, 2011
Indeed, and Occam's Razor is poised to shred the s**t out of it.
pdemmertApr 8, 2011
I dont get which side either of you are on hahaha
xtomtomxApr 8, 2011
I am on the side of logic and reason.
Of course I relish the idea of aliens visiting us.
But until I meet one, as Carl Sagan famously said:
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." :)
hasahugedigApr 8, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtjI8eGtvM
pdemmertApr 9, 2011
well, using occams razor is sort of a double edged sword for this one dont you think? id say occam is telling us that based on the fact that we have life on our planet, there should be life on others. doesnt mean anything else but plain and simple "they exist". them COMING to earth...thats another story for occam, especially when you think about how crazy our society is. whos to say what theyd want to subject us to...and is that all of us, or leaders or the world? who knows. I just KNOW they exist.
also, would digg twice for carl quote. bravo.
norman619Apr 9, 2011
No not really. The simplest explanation is that something did crash outside of Roswell and it was likely man made not alien craft.
swscloudApr 9, 2011
True enough about the possibility of life existing elsewhere, IMHO. But that doesn't really say anything about the veracity of the document or the Roswell Incident.
nikowolfApr 9, 2011
@noman619
it would be the simplest explanation but it doesn't mean it's true. unless you were there then you might know what actually happened. otherwise its blindly believing what the government tells people.
ophelloApr 9, 2011
You don't have to meet the president to know he exists. You don't have to have an anal probe to believe we're being visited. Get your head out of your ass.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
odeedApr 9, 2011
Not sure what you're try to say, ophello, you pretty much described what Occam's Razor is. We can safely say that the President exists without seeing him, because it makes significantly more sense than him not existing, and it all being a conspiracy. However, you cannot apply the same logic to UFOs, sure, it's possible they exist, but the other option: that it's just wishful thinking; is just as likely, if not more.
norman619Apr 9, 2011
Belief requires zero effort. Knowing requires you get off your ass and educate yourself.
invaderprotosApr 9, 2011
True: one doesn't need to meet the president to be assured of his existence. You can also view videos and photographs of him from various points in his life taken by many sources and, especially upon his introduction to the public eye, many of these visual records depict the same unambiguous activity. You can find audio recordings of his speeches. You can research his life from many credible on-and-offline publications. You can touch physical pieces of evidence connected to his past and even technically contact his parent/parents. Point being, there's ample proof that the president exists. The same can't be said for claims of extra-terrestrial visitation.
pastorrickApr 9, 2011
1. doesn't need to meet the president to be assured of his existence
2. You can also view videos and photographs of him from various points in his life
3. You can find audio recordings of his speeches.
4. You can research his life from many credible on-and-offline publications.
5. You can touch physical pieces of evidence connected to his past and even technically contact his parent/parents.
6. Point being, there's ample proof that the president exists.
There just isn't any proof that he is not an illegal alien who has pulled the greatest con job on earth by becoming President without a birth certificate proving he was born in the U.S.!
Just sayin :-))Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
norman619Apr 9, 2011
No they just require proof like anything else.
ophelloApr 9, 2011
Why dont you get off your ass and educate yourself on the mountain of evidence that exists? too afraid of what you'll find?
quit being a baby.
breadfredApr 9, 2011
ophello - get off your own ass and present us with a SINGLE undeniable fact that proofs that aliens exist. Something that cannot be explained by weather patterns, military aircraft, weather balloons or wishful thinking.
norman619Apr 9, 2011
ophello:
You sound just like the countless other believers I run into who get all pissy when I point out the fact that there is no real proof aliens are here or ever were here.None what so ever. As for the existence of intelligent alien life. WE are the best and only proof they likely exist OUT THERE. That does not mean you can make s**t up and claim they are here. If you want to believe they are here fine but if you are going to ask others to buy into your belief you are going to give us more than your feeling or stories.
nikowolfApr 9, 2011
to believe the earth is the only place that harbors life is just plain silly. you don't need proof to know that. in the milky way there is an estimated 100 - 400 billion stars. outside that there are clusters of galaxies that some have more and some have less. then there are clusters of clusters of galaxies called super clusters. even if only 1% of all of those stars out there that holds a solar system that contains some planet or moon or other that can actually support life and only 1% of those actually does have life then we're still probably looking at a number that rival the number of each an every person that exists on earth. now I'm not going to say that those are actual statistics but they seem realistic to me.
nikowolfApr 9, 2011
i think the claim of alien life wouldn't be extraordinary. simple odds are that there is life outside of our own.
xtomtomxApr 10, 2011
Indeed, but what about Fermi's Paradox?
The Drake equation is at odds with them.
I think the answer lies between the two.
In other words, there exists other life, however they choose not to reveal themselves.
nikowolfApr 10, 2011
@ xtomtomx
lol i really hope they would reveal themselves soon then cause I'm hoping that would some how help me get rid of my student loans :P
lespaul75Apr 11, 2011
Two things about Fermi's Paradox:
1) For all we know, every single solar system in the universe might populated with intelligent life. We don't have telescopes strong enough to see even the surface of planets in our own solar system, let alone systems lightyears away.
2) They might "choose" not to reveal themselves, or they might simply have never noticed us. We don't choose "to reveal ourselves" to colonies of ants because we know that they aren't capable of communicating with us. The evolutionary gap between ourselves and ants is many orders of magnitude smaller than the gap between us and extraterrestrial life, just based on simple probability, given the age of the universe.
supportthismikeApr 15, 2011
First extraordinary claims came from people that said the world was round. Then came the claim that man can fly. After came the claim that man could walk on the moon. What about the claim concerning God? I say 'impossible exists only in the mind.
xtomtomxApr 15, 2011
All of the extra ordinary claims you mention came with extraordinary evidence. That is how we know they are true.
As for the existence of God, that also is an extra ordinary claim. So far, no evidence at all, ordinary, or extra ordinary has ever presented itself.
supportthismikeApr 15, 2011
To xtomtomx I was referring to all the doubt BEFORE the extraordinary proof. Sure, after you or I see an alien ship or person, we would believe.
invaderprotosApr 8, 2011
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive/podcastinfo.aspx?mid=2&pid=71
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
"shred the s**t out of it."
Does sound very open-minded, for someone purporting to be on the side of logic and reason.
xtomtomxApr 10, 2011
It was an idiomatic comment.
norman619Apr 9, 2011
I hard his razor is a bit dull...
norman619Apr 9, 2011
Occum's Razor tries to separate the BS from the truth. Occum's razor can't shred the truth.
lespaul75Apr 11, 2011
That's not how Occam's Razor works.
justokApr 8, 2011
that's right, it is. Standing by the taco stand. Eating a blueberry muffin.
Unregistered_CowardApr 8, 2011
This document does nothing to prove the flying saucers were found at Roswell, it simply confirms that an incident and investigation occurred.
Nothing new
atomic1fireApr 9, 2011
I like the part where it's dated march 22, which leads me to believe this was a upcoming april fools prank.
icutcheeseApr 8, 2011
It's "out ther" and not here.
antdudeApr 9, 2011
Were Mulder and Scully in this project? :P
smurfzApr 8, 2011
I knew it was just a matter of time until these got leaked.
timbuc1Apr 8, 2011
Call Scully & Mulder!
psypher1Apr 9, 2011
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZx06aM2Rog
anthony852Apr 15, 2011
Cool.. just used that for a ringtone ;)
resistoonApr 8, 2011
So let me get this straight. American 1950's radar technology knocked out an advanced alien space craft in flight. A craft that was most likely designed to withstand space radiation during long distance flight.
Here is it 2011 and we have more advanced radar technology and there are no reports of alien spacecraft being knocked out of the sky due to this equipment.
I do believe there must be advanced life out there in other worlds, but doubt any have visited us (at least not recently), due to the vast distances between probable life sustaining planets.
stonesourrynApr 8, 2011
The aliens learned from their mistakes and upgraded their software to prevent from being interrupted by our terrestrial radar technology.
:-P
Closed AccountApr 8, 2011
Except for the fact that the actual vehicles were recovered in New Mexico.
But, please, let's have the old arguments trotted out.
trythinking1stApr 8, 2011
> "Except for the fact that the actual vehicles were recovered in New Mexico."
Yeah? Well, where are they?
D1gst1llsuxApr 9, 2011
they were first sent to the nearby airforce base and then later transferred to area 51
StonnaApr 9, 2011
i really want to believe. I really really really really do. This is a yes or no question, and we wont find out until we find out
bluerayusaApr 9, 2011
Wikileaks where are you???? someones gonna beat u to the punch!
cohanApr 9, 2011
The idea behind wikileaks and their movement is spreading ... fast xD
StonnaApr 9, 2011
They were supposed to be released this year. early. either the CIA is doing something or wiki-leaks has been busy on something that must be bigger then UFOS and UFOs are really nothing special. but if UFOS are real phenomenon then you can bet whoever is running the show is not just going to let it get out
d0kken_Apr 8, 2011
It just says someone informed them. There is no proof. It's only hearsay
damndjApr 9, 2011
Exactly.
wickedoneApr 8, 2011
document the article is writing about is from 1950 while the rowell incident was back in 1947.
the only thing about roswell in the vault is this document
http://vault.fbi.gov/Roswell%20UFO/Roswell%20UFO%20Part%201%20of%201/view
paraxApr 8, 2011
Here's a list of what does NOT constitute proof according to consensus:
1. A video or photo of the crash or an alien. Photos and Videos are obviously fake.
2. Statements from people involved. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
3. The UFO or physical alien objects. Hoaxes by people who want attention.
So if video, photos, statements, and physical objects don't count, what is on the list of things that do constitute proof?
invaderprotosApr 8, 2011
It's not that none of them count, it's that none of them *alone* count. A core basis of the scientific toolset is that no one piece of evidence proves anything.
1.) Countless videos and photographs depicting *something* have been made. The videos are mostly unsteady, pixelated, and show only highly ambiguous lights or shadows. The photographs can be described very much the same way, but are even less compelling as a still shot of any point of light or streak or dark blob can be one of a thousand things. The ones that do possess any kind of clarity tend to show a UFO (used in the popular extra-terrestrial context) *too* well, well enough that one has to immediately question why nobody other than the photographer witness it.
2.) You nailed it. Anecdotal evidence is the absolute lowest form of it. Humans are very fallible in a large number of ways (memories that are flighty and susceptible to corruption; rationality influenced by emotion and preconceptions; wired to seek patterns where there aren't necessarily any). However, it can be useful in directing further research. If 50 different people all attest to having observed roughly the same thing, it might be worth checking out.
3.) There haven't been any physical "alien" objects found on earth, unless you count debris from asteroids, meteors, other planets, etc. If a civilization is advanced enough to have gained the capability of interstellar travel, one would expect an object purported to be alien-made to posses some properties seen nowhere else on Earth, or made with unearthly technology. Unsurprisingly, physical evidence is the least commonly found. Stories and pictures are way easier to create.
zzfdkzzApr 8, 2011
Dugg down for misleading title.
paraxApr 9, 2011
I think a huge breakdown in communication between believers and non-believers is that both sides don't realize they're both subscribing to a particular doctrine without ever questioning, challenging, or re-examining their own position.
Believers think aliens have visited us and any attempt to define their experiences and theories using any other explanation is dismissed out of hand.
Non-believers believe in non-belief itself. When new data becomes available, they don't even pause to examine it, exactly like the believers, they dismiss any evidence out of hand.
There's so much bias on both sides it's hard to stand.
Why can't this report simply be a piece of evidence that can now be examined collectively with other evidence. I don't even understand why everyone just looks at the report and declares "This doesn't prove anything!"
You'd be foolish to accept this report as isolated proof of alien existence. However, it's just as foolish to disregard it because the document doesn't stand on its own as a beacon of proof in and of itself.
Analogously, a doctor doesn't run a blood test, see a slightly elevated level of some enzyme and declare either "Well that doesn't prove anything!" or "It's Lupus!" No, he collects it with the other results until some kind of picture forms, he doesn't require each individual test to either fully indicate a disease or not..
paraxApr 9, 2011
You win, I give up. I've tried repeatedly to inform people that science does not prove theories true. Fortunately, a lot of people seem to be using a different science than I learned. One which gives absolute answers to every question and every scientific theory is simply "completely true". And I'm glad you have that tool in your belt. I'm stuck with my rusty old science that is filled with uncertainties, error margins, and outliers.
I'm left to wonder why there are so many scientists in the world testing scientific theories that are already proven to be completely true.
tomgfromcanadaApr 9, 2011
Mexicans
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
Another core basis of science is a willingness not to dismiss real evidence when it doesn't support your theory.
Radar recording from ground and air-based radar, and hundreds of witnesses AND multiple pictures were the evidence for the sightings in 1952 in Washington DC. There were pictures on the front page of the multiple newspapers worldwide. But I guess air force pilots are just too unreliable at air reconnaissance to know the difference between weather and multiple moving targets penetrating restricted airspace. Really!?
There are hundreds of videos and pictures that demonstrate this phenomenon to be real. There are hundreds of military and professional pilot testimonies to support the extra-terrestrial theory. The highest ranking member in the Belgian Air Command agrees; after dealing with country's own mass sightings.
Please wake up. This memo was released on the FBI website and people are questioning it's authenticity? That is bold. Guy Hottel was a real agent and he submitted this memo to the Director of the FBI - Edgar Hoover. You think for one second a special agent is going to waste the time of the Director with bulls**t? I don't think so - the document has been authenticated. The Roswell incident was witnessed by multiple people who spoke about during their life times. There is rigorous evidence of a cover-up at the highest levels of government. This memo confirms it.
I'm sorry but the idea that a reconnaissance team of extra-terrestrials went down in New Mexico, were recovered by the Air Force which reported it in the media, and later covered it up seems much less far-fetched than the idea that the American government is telling the truth about all of this.
We now know that Earth-like planets are common place. We also know that our theories of the physical laws of nature are incomplete - Newton, Einstein, and Feynman notwithstanding. We have hundreds of photos, we have hundreds of videos, we have thousands of eyewitnesses, many of them military. We have radar recordings. We have declassified documents.
What we don't have is alien tech or alien bodies. Except now it appears that we have both. People keep calling it bulls**t as the evidence stacks up...
fodderboiApr 8, 2011
FBI confirms existence of vampires:
http://www.blackholenews.net/UFO/FBI-Memo-Confirms-Existence-of-Vampires-in-U-S/
nowruzrApr 9, 2011
Maybe the US Government can stop trying to protect its citizens and just tell them the truth for once
russplaysagibsonlespaulApr 9, 2011
This is awesome
cohanApr 9, 2011
I will lol so hard if the people running around with tin foils on their head were right.
irukaApr 8, 2011
Bout bloody time. Idiots! So they invented doughnuts yeah?
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
That little document dump had more interesting things to reveal. The scariest so far:
A document requesting more information on two AAF investigators, a Captain William L. Davidson and Lt. Frank M. Brown, of San Francisco HQ, who were in Portland, Washington to interview "experienced pilots" who had reported seeing disc, including 4 pilots said to be among the first to report these discs. This took place in July 1947
Both men were killed when their plane - which the Oregonian newspaper had reported was carrying disc debris - crashed in Kelso 5 days later. AAF thought it credible enough to send AAF intelligence to investigate the crash site.
And a follow up document confirms that one of those gentlemen was on a top secret mission for the CIC - Army Counterintelligence Corps.
I'm not making any of this up - it's right there in the documents. Seems like an awful lot of paperwork for swamp gas.
Closed AccountApr 8, 2011
I find it very hard to believe a radar system would have caused a UFO to crash. There are plenty of sources of natural radio waves, which is what radar uses. There are plenty of stronger sources of radio waves in the universe compared to man made radar. Even lightning can make radio waves. So to have a ship susceptible to such a thing, especially at low energy, would make it unfeasible for any kind of space travel.
laborerApr 8, 2011
Serious?
skinturtleApr 8, 2011
Even if they landed a ship in the middle lawn outside the whitehouse...or whever ever that it broadcast on TV...there are those out there that claim it was a hoax...because they are just assh**es that way.
toy121Apr 9, 2011
is this for real?
chukaobianozieApr 9, 2011
Ok so now we see the truth but why all the secrecy in the first place. I never understood the point in hiding the information. I wish we could see the space crafts and the aliens. That would be nice to see.
selenaleeApr 9, 2011
http://www.specialwallet.com
ophelloApr 9, 2011
You naysayers can suck it.
emptybuddhaApr 9, 2011
I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
20 year old catchphrase FTW!
emptybuddhaApr 9, 2011
I'm glad someone understands wtf I am talking about.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
What do you expect? I make ref's to 90's SNL and people call me racist for it.
blester01Apr 9, 2011
My grandfather reviewed the metal recovered after it was transferred to WPAFB. He was a metals expert for the USAF brought to the US under Operation Paper Clip after WWII. They used to have a piece of the "weather ballon" on display at the Air Force Museum. One day we were there together, he explained to me that the metal he actually inspected had unknown symbols on it and was as strong as anything he had seen, but lighter than any known material at that time. It was not human in origin according to him.
StonnaApr 9, 2011
well Danial Johnson said his grandpa was testing the downed disc aircraft and that it had failed and two pilots had died.
edit: let me just throw this in here /s
joe7845Apr 8, 2011
The first question should be: Has it been confirmed by anyone that the document is authentic?
Closed AccountApr 8, 2011
I believe you mean the FBI. Real enough to be classified and have names redacted. But by all means, give us another reason to keep believing the lie.
joe7845Apr 8, 2011
I stand corrected. The first time I didn't look at the link on the word "memo", which goes to vault.fbi.com. The document is legit.
Closed AccountApr 9, 2011
It's not wrong to ask the question - it is the first question, really. But this document has provenance. It appears to have been released with a plethora of items declassified to support the hoax theory - such as a debunking of the MAJESTIC -12 documents that were recovered by the Dallas branch in 1988. Fairly ironic, really.
digitalguyApr 8, 2011
More deliberate misinformation.
UFO9070Sep 7, 2011
Woah, this story is pretty awesome. I have a blog that I'm working on focused on all things UFO, if you want to check it out, I'd really appreciate your input and support via following.
http://discussitout.blogspot.com/
Thanks for sharing!
Greatlifee101May 5, 2011
For the comment below...how does this not prove that aliens exist??