bloomberg.com— The use of corn to make ethanol in the U.S. is helping to lift the grain price worldwide, said Jose Graziano da Silva, the new director general of the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization.
Jan 22, 2012View in Crawl 4
Stop viewing the world through political colored glasses. Just as many Republicans supported these subsidies as Democrats, including some Republicans who *say* they oppose the very concept.
"Thursday’s Senate vote, in fact, may say more about the antagonism in Congress for the ethanol credit. Among ethanol supporters, geography trumped party. Senators from farm states — Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Kansas and Minnesota — voted against the amendment regardless of party, including vociferous debt reduction advocates such as Sens. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) and Mike Johanns (R-Neb.)"
switch grass is for cellulosic ethanol which is still a pipe dream. you should have said sugar beets they are now and produce 7x more ethanol than corn
the other option is algae, with many of the same advantages, but at sea will need to be contained. would work well in say desert area's close to the sea though.
"Especially when you can switch out Corn with Switch Grass which will deplete the soils MUCH less than Corn will!"
Ok, hold that thought.
Now, question: If all the farmers now growing corn for bio-fuel made the switch to switch grass, how much extra corn would be produced?
Answer: Zero
And thus, the production of food corn would remain depressed and the price of corn would remain just where it is, doubled --- all as a result of bio-fuel production.
This should serve as a warning to bio-fuel promoters --- bio-fuel will raise the price of food regardless of the crop being grown. Food crops will have to compete with fuel crops in order to gain the attention of farmers and production facilities.
If you were a farmer and you could make more money growing switch grass instead of corn, which would you grow?
I never stated it'd reduce the price of corn, I'm stating that it will not destroy the soil as much as Corn does. I have no issues with Corn prices going up, especially when there is such a demand for it. It's helping the farmers (inb4 Farmers make too much money) and growing a staple that the U.S. needs.
Corn is notorious for destroying cropfields in a couple of years. It depletes the soil of essential nutrients MUCH faster than most other crops, which is why most corn growers have to let multiple fields lay fallow for MULTIPLE seasons before being able to grow again.
But on that effect, why not switch back and forth between corn and something that replenishes the soil?
"But on that effect, why not switch back and forth between corn and something that replenishes the soil?"
In a word --- money.
If we create an economic environment where the return on a bio-fuel crop like switch grass is better than food crops, why bother with food the crops at all?
A lot of farmers won't. At least not until the return from food crops rises to a comparable level. Which they inevitably will.
The concept may have been well intentioned but it was never well thought out and all it really accomplished was a net loss on every gallon of ethanol produced. Time to end the waste and try something more promising.
And keep the fuel around for people that want a (cheaper/safer) alternative for "race fuel". If prices stay below what leaded 110 octane fuel is, I'd convert my cars to run it, since it has near the same properties as race fuel does.
I won't get too deep into the gains with fuels like these in cars.. But what I am really pushing for is for changing the federal mandate for ethanol to be put into our fuels, adding ethanol to our fuels makes our cars run 10+percent worse in MPG.. imagine if your car suddenly got 10 percent more miles per tank!
Tell me about it. Just finished reading Michael Pollans book on this subject of corn. It is really amazing how evil the farm subsidies to continue the corn overproduction really are. They promote the wrong behaviors, abusing fertilizer, causing pollution, and farmers get poorer trying to stay afloat with this unneeded crop. Glad we have national security in the US with this surpluss of corn, but it is really bad for our cars, the high fructose is bad for our bodies, and the growth and transport of corn is bad for the environmnent. The cheap feed corn makes for cows and chickens is not so helpful either.
nathanloehleinJan 22, 2012
The US already decided to stop subsidizing corn ethanol production. http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/29/9804028-6-billion-a-year-ethanol-subsidy-dies-but-wait-theres-more
arpadJan 23, 2012
Too bad the lefty assh**es who buddied up with Archer Daniels Midland and the farm lobby to get this bad idea passed have all developed amnesia.
jqp123Jan 23, 2012
Stop viewing the world through political colored glasses. Just as many Republicans supported these subsidies as Democrats, including some Republicans who *say* they oppose the very concept.
"Thursday’s Senate vote, in fact, may say more about the antagonism in Congress for the ethanol credit. Among ethanol supporters, geography trumped party. Senators from farm states — Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Kansas and Minnesota — voted against the amendment regardless of party, including vociferous debt reduction advocates such as Sens. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) and Mike Johanns (R-Neb.)"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-approves-cut-in-ethanol-subsidies-votes-for-feinstein-amendment/2011/06/16/AGwrfhXH_story.html
crom99Jan 22, 2012
Using food to make fuel is a dumb idea.
j00d4nJan 22, 2012
Especially when you can switch out Corn with Switch Grass which will deplete the soils MUCH less than Corn will!
Closed AccountJan 22, 2012
or use moonshine...nah thats w waste of good alchol..
fluxJan 23, 2012
switch grass is for cellulosic ethanol which is still a pipe dream. you should have said sugar beets they are now and produce 7x more ethanol than corn
countess666Jan 23, 2012
seaweed.
doesn't need farmland but grows out at sea, easier to turn into ethanol (no tough fibres) grows REALLY fast (up to 50 cm a day)
and we have just made a bacteria (engineered from a bacteria in the gut) that turns it into ethanol for us.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/22/e_coli_seaweed_biofuel/
the other option is algae, with many of the same advantages, but at sea will need to be contained. would work well in say desert area's close to the sea though.
jqp123Jan 23, 2012
"Especially when you can switch out Corn with Switch Grass which will deplete the soils MUCH less than Corn will!"
Ok, hold that thought.
Now, question: If all the farmers now growing corn for bio-fuel made the switch to switch grass, how much extra corn would be produced?
Answer: Zero
And thus, the production of food corn would remain depressed and the price of corn would remain just where it is, doubled --- all as a result of bio-fuel production.
This should serve as a warning to bio-fuel promoters --- bio-fuel will raise the price of food regardless of the crop being grown. Food crops will have to compete with fuel crops in order to gain the attention of farmers and production facilities.
If you were a farmer and you could make more money growing switch grass instead of corn, which would you grow?
j00d4nJan 23, 2012
I never stated it'd reduce the price of corn, I'm stating that it will not destroy the soil as much as Corn does. I have no issues with Corn prices going up, especially when there is such a demand for it. It's helping the farmers (inb4 Farmers make too much money) and growing a staple that the U.S. needs.
Corn is notorious for destroying cropfields in a couple of years. It depletes the soil of essential nutrients MUCH faster than most other crops, which is why most corn growers have to let multiple fields lay fallow for MULTIPLE seasons before being able to grow again.
But on that effect, why not switch back and forth between corn and something that replenishes the soil?
jqp123Jan 23, 2012
"But on that effect, why not switch back and forth between corn and something that replenishes the soil?"
In a word --- money.
If we create an economic environment where the return on a bio-fuel crop like switch grass is better than food crops, why bother with food the crops at all?
A lot of farmers won't. At least not until the return from food crops rises to a comparable level. Which they inevitably will.
brucealmightyJan 22, 2012
The concept may have been well intentioned but it was never well thought out and all it really accomplished was a net loss on every gallon of ethanol produced. Time to end the waste and try something more promising.
j00d4nJan 22, 2012
And keep the fuel around for people that want a (cheaper/safer) alternative for "race fuel". If prices stay below what leaded 110 octane fuel is, I'd convert my cars to run it, since it has near the same properties as race fuel does.
I won't get too deep into the gains with fuels like these in cars.. But what I am really pushing for is for changing the federal mandate for ethanol to be put into our fuels, adding ethanol to our fuels makes our cars run 10+percent worse in MPG.. imagine if your car suddenly got 10 percent more miles per tank!
craig1958Jan 23, 2012
Farm welfare; once it starts, it's hard to get rid of it.
uncjaseJan 23, 2012
Tell me about it. Just finished reading Michael Pollans book on this subject of corn. It is really amazing how evil the farm subsidies to continue the corn overproduction really are. They promote the wrong behaviors, abusing fertilizer, causing pollution, and farmers get poorer trying to stay afloat with this unneeded crop. Glad we have national security in the US with this surpluss of corn, but it is really bad for our cars, the high fructose is bad for our bodies, and the growth and transport of corn is bad for the environmnent. The cheap feed corn makes for cows and chickens is not so helpful either.
Check out the story if you don't believe it.
Books: http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Natural-History-Meals/dp/1594200823
Audio book: http://www.audible.com/pd?asin=B002VAGMJA
jaketyson85Jan 23, 2012
This is good news as far as I'm concerned, I HATE corn. Beans and legumes is where it's at!
cherylbytesJan 22, 2012
Sounds pretty "corny" to me.
j00d4nJan 22, 2012
So simply cheesy. Love it.
cherylbytesJan 22, 2012
Yeah, I know; I couldn't help myself. :-)
global76Jan 27, 2012
I do not know what to think about this one.
battmannJan 24, 2012
ethanol subsidies just ended,s it should help drop the price!
gkiltzJan 23, 2012
The supply will take a few years to catch up.