mashable.com— When Apple announced its initiative to bring iPads into schools, the reaction among many was enthusiastic. But there are major reasons why iPads are too expensive for schools.
Feb 10, 2012View in Crawl 4
No, way cheaper for college students than tgextbooks. It would pay for itself in a semester or two, and that is if college students only used them for text books.
In reality, the college students that are not becoming IT computer programmers can just skip buying an old fashioned laptop/PC which saves tons of money. They'll gain access to tons of free and 99 cent apps.
So they will save a fortune and gain a treasure.
Not a harsh lesson at all, especially compared to some technologies and deals out there that have oversold themselves as strictly happy and under-disclosed their true TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). In recessions particularly, TCO becomes a huge factor.
"Because of the way iBooks will be linked to specific user accounts, reuse from year-to-year isn’t possible; "
Why? Just like kids turn the physical textbooks back at the end of the term for the next term's students to use, have them turn back in the iPad. Or, create generic accounts by grade level and at the end of each grade clear the account in the student's iPad and load in a generic account for the next grade level.
Excellent point. Since the general stance of the article is predicated on the concept that the government or the schools would be purchasing the iPads for the students to use, it would stand to reason that the account, data, and content management falls under purview of the school, not the student. As such, the student relinquishes the device and content back to the school, which is then free to utilize for the next student.
Though it is a little pointless and clumsy for the 4th graders to leave their iPads behind for the 3rd graders (etc) each year. Makes more sense that the school would buy, say, 100 license of an Algebra eBook, then be able to authorize an deauthorize individual books on individual devices from a web site.
The 3rd grader keeps his iPad when he moves to 4th grade, but his 3rd grade books magically disappear and are replaced by 4th grade books.
I could also see the schools requiring parents to buy the iPads, albeit perhaps at a subsidized price for lower-income families.
Or encourage parents to buy the iPad if they want the latest and greatest. Some of these kids will will own iPads. And would rather have them at school then the last year or two old model schools will end up with from time to time.
I assume that the licensing agreement for the books will prohibit transferring them to other students. The only reason the publishers agreed to the low price was to eliminate reuse and resale.
Well, there is nothing that says that there cannot be two accounts per device, if Apple wants to tweak their architecture in their store & iOS devices to work that way. It would sort of make sense to have a similar arrangement for Enterprise bought commercial software two.
One could be for the permanent/actual owner of the phone, and one would be for the institution buying (or renting?) textbooks (or apps?) for the user who temporarily or permanently owns the device. Severing a relationship with an institution would sever the accessibility of that institution's apps and textbooks on the iPad (or iPhone).
Doesn't seem like the most complex thing in the world. Apple licked a lot more complex problems that daunted competitors since the 1990s and which still lay unsolved in those guy's realms.
That would give flexibility you indicate as needed and leave everyone feeling happy that they are not getting ripped off.
Well, except for the guys with gargantuan paper mills and printing presses, which I think have already read the writing on the wall about their industry anyway.
I'm sure the school would have an admin account for all the devices and the students would have limited access to the device; just like school supplied computers.
Theoretically. At the moment, that is the pricing structure for the current round of high-school level curriculum, and it is likely to stay that way - but it hasn't yet been addressed what university level or elementary/middle school curriculum will be priced at. It is hoped that the $14.95 cap will be unilateral.
School systems, Department of Education, NEA, NSF, or others could self-publish textbooks or supplementary material.
While native apps are single sourced from Apple, iOS devices have always been able to get documents from anywhere via email, synching, or loading off a web page. As long as the document is in some non-proprietary, well known standard file format or PDF, the iOS devices seem to know how to handle it.
For once, cost and compatibility would not be an issue.
How about the cost of getting rid of those huge, wall sized, slate blackboards from scores of classrooms per school building?
A collaborative drawing and/or text editing program would let that happen.
At various times, the original web browser (an OS X app it turns out), a version of Mosaic, and the official W3 web browser have supported collaborating editing out of the box.
Being able to see and write on the same "space" is what blackboards are all about. The price of gigantic amounts of slate has got to be huge at this point. That could all be eliminated.
No one would miss them much. Chalk gets on people's fingers, eyes, throats, and lungs. Whiteboard markers smell a bit too strong due to the chemicals.
I think what we will see is a transitional process of between 4 and 7 years or so, during which the pricing structure breakdown will be extrapolated, subsidized or otherwise accommodated. In that context, the strengths of the new medium will need to be additionally factored in accordance with extraneous and supplemental functionality that includes things like school/student communications and e-learning opportunities. At the moment, it is too easy to look at the whole picture through the limited lens of access to textbooks - but there are a lot more factors to be considered over the next few years.
At the university level, the transitional period is likely to be significantly shorter. This is due largely to the fact that at that level, students typically purchase the texts themselves instead of the texts being furnished for them by the university. (Yes, there are some exceptions). These costs frequently involve student investment of $300 - $500 or more for textbooks per semester. Two semesters of this can become comparable to the up front cost of an iPad, plus the requisite iBooks versions of the texts. In some cases, the iPad route could even prove to be less costly (though without the option to sell the texts back at the end of a semester....although eating the cost of a $15 iBooks isn't too bad compared to earning $22 back on the cost of a $180 calculus text.) After which time the student still retains the iPad which provides significantly greater functionality across of range of educationally-based uses.
When I went to college I not only bought used books for cheap, I managed to sell them to the next guy in the end for the exact same amount.
Try pulling the same thing off with an iPad. Try sharing, borrowing or lending a book on an iPad. In fact, try doing those things with any of your apps and content and see how well that works out.
At my school, what the university did is monopolize the text book resale business.
You either paid full price for a book, which was nearly $100 back then and is probably often higher now, or you bought a book from them for about 75% of full price and you sold it back to them at the end of the semester for 10% of full price.
We basically paid 66% of the really expensive books' prices to rent them a few months, and kept them if we really liked them, in which case we were out not just 66% but more like 75% of the full price. And that is for used text books. You could get pink eye from one, have to deal with random highlighting and circling, and all kinds of weird stuff. One of my used text books came with dried blood on the front cover.
With electronic textbooks, at least you do not have to deal with hand-me-down bodily fluids and human pathogens.
Plus, I would rather pay $15 than $100 any old day, especially when I get to keep that textbook and carry it with me wherever I go.
Technology is rapidly evolving into schools. When will they just teach programming as part of required curriculum! html, css are not to hard, sql.... kids need to learn these computer languages too!
Whatever programming they are learning in school will be hopelessly obsolete when they graduate. At this point, computers/tablets are just ubiquitous tools that should be transparent to the user. The average user doesn't need to program any more than the average driver needs to know how to rebuild a transmission.
Do we need to know math, then, or anything else? Math is seldom used outside of high school. Maybe we should just learn to type and click mouse buttons.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
I use math every day, I use English every day. I haven't had to program since the days of punch cards. It's useful to understand the fundamental concepts, but their is little point in teaching specific programming languages at that level. Programming is a specific skill that very few people need to know; it is the equivalent to teaching auto repair and hairdressing in high school. Programming is not a fundamental, it is vocational training.
You probably don't use a lot of the math taught in high school, or history, or many other things. I don't think it should be required, but it should be an elective just as second (spoken) languages, etc. It's a heads up for people that will be using it in later life. I took metal shop and wood shop in high school and they are vocational. I don't see it as that, though. I see it as part of knowing what's going on in the world and being able to solve problems with tools. Once you know one computer language it's very easy to learn more.
They are all fundamentally the same. The point is, Apple computers have more uses than text books, and I'm questioning the math on this site. The price of tablet computers will continue to drop. The price of text books will continue to increase. What about students that are left out of the computer age because of poverty? That's a pretty big gap compared to the rest. I'm sure many parents will be willing to supply the computers to their own children so these costs are being exaggerated to prove a point.
I agree that programming should be offered as an elective, my daughter's high school offers several classes. I just don't think it should be required.
I agree that it will be a challenge to get every student an iPad. Many parents will not be able or willing to pay $500, so the schools will have to provide at least some of the devices. I do think apple will offer some discounts, just like the have with MacBooks (my daughter's school currently provides the white MacBooks to students who don't have their own). I wouldn't be surprised to see them sell iPads for about $300 to schools; I also wouldn't be surprised to see them sponsor programs to give them to low income students.
I think we will hear more about this, probably after the next iPad is announced.
html isn't a good example because it's a markup language not a computer language. Computer languages are pure logic. Do you need logic in life? I think so.
Math is used a heck of a lot outside of high school. If you go into science, computers, accounting, business, marketing, management, investing, purchasing, or any of zillions of other fields then you are going to do some math.
People might exaggerate how much it will be for some fields and understate how special-purpose the kind of math you wind up doing will be, but "there will be math!".
One of the things Apple/Google are working on with their public open source WebKit project is MathML. Mozilla has supported it for a decade in their web browsers. Apple and Google are not exactly rushing out their MathML efforts, however.
Perhaps the advent of this new Apple product line or I guess marketplace even will turn up the heat within Apple to get the MathML document support completed.
It will make math & science textbooks and homework equations a lot easier to write. The results are incredibly readable compared to the way complex math normally looks on an ASCII-only computer text field or display.
Yup, as soon as toshiba makes all the content deals with the publishers. Alternatively, the individual schools can buy those devices and try to make their own deals with the publishers for ebooks in a different format.
I wish someone would, competition is good for everyone.
Kindle is not really a computer. In terms of its capabilities, it is a book reading appliance with an experimental or slow web browser; neither is especially desirable.
Track record of Android-based devices (e.g. Fire) is abysmal when it comes to shipping with the current OS or every updating to the current OS. Going from a system where you have text books that are several years out of date to where you have a text book appliance that is several years out of date is not a complete step up for students.
I agree, but some future version of the kindle will probably by a useful device (not just a book reader). At some point there will be real competition in this market (assuming that apple doesn't lock it up before these guys finally get their act together).
i was at one of the convention McGraw-Hill for Florida schools and ask them why is it more money for same book that is at a local book store. at the school and then also ask them why their so much money due to a majority of the subject matter is the same every year . to the the person(from McGraw-Hill) was doing the run around about the answer after the facts and then finale walk away not answering the question.
That's assuming the schools pay full price (which they wouldn't since there are discount and even leasing programs that make it more economical for schools to purchase them).
Also assuming the need to be replaced every four years isn't necessarily true, if they are used primarily for books/internet/productivity they do not have to be the latest and greatest.
And finally I believe the point is to create a medium that stimulates learning and excites students to learn and makes them excel and not necessarily makes it dirt cheap for schools to get books.
Give it 5 years with Amoled screens using today's tablet processing power then I think we can make something cheap enough to pass around, it would be basic but it'll get the job done
Save your schools money and use Khan Academy, and ck-12. Both of these are free and they don't use Proprietary content . I cant understand how Apple thinks that schools, teachers, and students will be throwing money like this to them. It wont happen unless Apple gives them a big break. But still you have a problem with the Proprietary content. You have to stick around and wait for the publisher to decide to update the content. Either way the schools still lose. This is no way to teach students.
I think the point is to use that "proprietary content," those are the text books that have been approved by individual school districts for those classes. At the K-12 level, individual teaches don't get to adjust the curriculum on the own. Apple's leverage is the fact that they have gotten the publishers of those books to enter into agreements at a pretty decent price. Anyone else that wants to compete is free to do the same.
They are not competing when they are offering the same content for the same price. Go back and read the article again. Better yet I will post it here for you...
"A representative of textbook publisher McGraw-Hill made clear to Mashable shortly after Apple’s announcement that the functional cost of a digital textbook for a school will actually be the same as the paper version, despite the much lower sticker price. Because of the way iBooks will be linked to specific user accounts, reuse from year-to-year isn’t possible; a freshman algebra textbook purchased in 2012 will need to be repurchased for new incoming freshman in 2013. If you use the standard cost and lifespan estimates for paper textbooks of $75 and five years, the digital versions end up costing the same as the paper editions."
This not what Duncan wanted he clearly stated he wanted cheaper alternatives. He also stated he wanted a more robust educational experience for students, and here is McGraw-Hill pushing out the same content at the same price. No tools for teachers either. Now add the 75 bucks some schools had leveraged 65 dollars and even 60 bucks per hard copy. So schools will be paying more for their digital textbooks as much as 15 bucks extra. This I have first hand knowledge in. Certain books do cost 75 bucks, but the average is $65.00 per hard copy. So no they are not saving any money at all. No they are not getting a better version in the digital textbook. They are getting slammed with the same.
Oh and teachers do want to choose, and many schools are allowing them too.
Of course the publishers are not going to make a deal that costs them money, they are going to make sure they have the same annual income for the same content. I thought everyone already understood that.
The choice is between carrying around dead trees or an electronic device that has more capability and can be easily updated. The advantage of an iPad (or equivilant device) is the ability to include interactive content and to update it in real time as new information or corrections become available. Obviously, providing custom content for every iBook will depend on having a large enough market to pay for that content. The initial revisions will probably be the same as the old books.
The challenge is to make the cost work for school districts. Some of these schools already provide $1000 computers, so a $500 device will be more attractive. Other schools do not provide technology, so this will be a new cost. To make this work, they need to reach a critical mass that will allow the publishers to start moving away from paper and settle on their standard. If apple wants to own this market, they need to price the hardware aggressively enough to become the standard in a large number of school districts before the other technology companies wake up. Fortunately, they have enough cash to buy their way into this market through deep discounts and donations.
As always, their business model is to break even on content and make money selling hardware. This is no different than taking over the music business; lock in deals to provide inexpensive content in a proprietary format (based on large volume) and sell the devices at a profit. This is a huge market that is stuck in the 19th century.
After talking with teachers the number one concern is cost. The number two concern is being locked in. They don't want a company telling them how they can use content that is decades and centuries old. I had a few teachers to tell me what was going on. None said who the provider was. But you can guess it is one of the major three.
First they get the content along with rules
they can't copy the content
they can't port it to their own devices
students that don't have access because of internet issues have no way to back up and view later. Their teacher is at a standstill because one of the big three wont improvise.
Teachers now stuck in this rut now want better alternatives. Even if this means making their own content from scratch. Because it makes no sense going digital if the students don't have several options for viewing the content.
students need a few of these options or all:
They can view it online,
Buy a bound edition for five bucks
Check out the book in their library
View a DVD version
Print a hard copy from the web.
Viewed online via an account and password...sure why not
Buy a bound edition for $5...nope, the bound edition (which won't have any interactive content) would be their usual price otherwise what's the point?
Check it from the library...sure why not
View a DVD version...unless the DVD has interactive functions, how would it work? Chapter marks for each page?
Print a hard copy from the web...how many hundreds of pages would that be, why would publishers allow that since the potential for abuse is pretty high
My understanding is that the authoring tools are free, any teacher that wants to create his own content is free to distribute it to his students. I doubt many teachers will author their own text books, but I'm sure some will create supplemental information for their classes. Hopefully the publishers will be more likely to keep their content current if they don't have to print and transport physical books. Also, I hope this would lower the barrier for competition in the textbook industry. Part of the reason that the "big three" have a vurtual monopoly is the cost of printing these books. This is just a first step.
If the content is on a device, why do they need an online version or a hard copy, especially if they can annotate it? I own dozens of books and hundreds of work-related documents that only exist in the iBook format (including PDFs). These books are stored locally on the iPad, I don't need Internet access to view them. This provides more flexibility than my daughter's current high school, which is 100% online and does require Internet access to view the material, attend vurtual classes, and take tests. Her online testbooks have similar interactivity, but she needs to use them on her MacBook while connected to wi-fi. Reading a tablet is a better experience than reading a computer screen.
I assume libraries could keep hard copies, but they will lack any interactive features. I really don't see the point of maintaining a physical copy or an online version.
I doubt that DVDs will exist in 5 years. Try to find a floppy drive today.
Once the iPad 3 goes to retail, I predict dated hardware, iPad 2s, being sold to schools at or near cost. Assuming Apple's standard 30% cut applies, they make 4.50 on every text book purchased.
I agree, in the short term. In the long term, they will make plenty of money on the hardware as the iPad becomes more of a replacement for the computer. This will help them lock in school districts that will eventually buy (future) iPads for their students instead of laptops. I hope that I can replace my MacBooks with iPads in a few years, they are much more portable. The current iPad is not a full computer, but that will change.
"The content made by McGraw-Hill is proprietary. (copyrighted) as with any of the hard copy publishers."
This was in response to the questions asking how students would get the purchased books onto the ipads if their families can not afford internet access. If the school is providing the ipads, the purchased books can be loaded at the school.
Hmmm... I wonder what textbook format would display on an HP 48G graphics calculator?
That's what I want... I don't want have to carry an iPad to class...lol
If you read further down the page I have cited above, you will see that not only does the desktop version of Safari have MathML support but the iPad version of Safari does too. It says MathML was released in the iPad on October 2011.
If you look at the rightmost column on this page, you will see how MathML is rendered by your web browser.
Whether possible, Apple seems to base its book-document technologies on web-document standard technologies. So I would be surprised if MathML support was left out of iBook textbooks for long, and not so surprised if it was already there.
It's twice the cost of textbooks for K-12 students but look at two things that the authors didn't mention.
First, parents won't have to spend a fortune on a PC for their child. Something cheaper, handier, more self contained, more child-friendly and yes -- tote-able to school -- can be substituted for it. These textbooks in most cases can be up to date. By contrast, the textbooks I had in K-12 seemed to be outdated and often victims of abuse. The index will doubtless be more lively in an iPad book than a 2-inch thick heavy hardback book too.
Second, the article shies away from the subject of costly college textbooks, which apparently, was the atrocity Steve Jobs and company had in their sites when they created this electronic textbook program. That is where the killer savings will be made. College students will actually use a ton of study-aiding features like "search" that will not only make their work easier, but satisfy their curiosity making learning somewhat fun for more of them, more of the time.
Couple other factors to weigh in:
(a) Kids in 1/3 of my grades in grade school were apologetic thieves, stealing books and money when they got the chance. Not all kids, but it only takes one to steal something. I'm sure that I was not the only child who went to school with future -- well, already -- larcenous criminals. Kids break stuff too; their own and others. The iPads are made of toughened class. They're not nerfballs. There would have to be some kind of physical security and ruggedization at a very low cost, the likes of which we have not seen in the computer field yet.
(b) College institutions and American families have had a very mixed experience with desktops and laptops. The ones running Windows are semi universally infected with malware; trojans, viruses, and worms. All three find it easy to spread across a college campus. Nobody has Windows malware under control and the efforts have been full force for a decade and still are deemed a miserable failure. The iPad and its app-running precursor have been out for years. As yet on iPad/iPhone no epidemics or pandemics, both of which are endemic to Windows. Even Microsoft will readily admit once it gets a substitute OS out that its previous OS, currently the current one, was abysmal. College kids have credit cards, loan accounts, and social security numbers. Not having these things stolen by mysterious Eastern hemisphere gangs is this year, one of the greatest concerns families have. Claims hacking of Windows has been so devastatingly successful due to market share, popularity, or careless users at this point is a joke. Apple headed off all those dangers at the outset; iPad is safer than a Windows laptop.
Hopefully, the Bill Gates foundation, which is a self described non profit, will take measures to help high schools afford iPads which will finally deliver on his pledge to improve school students education using computing technology. That is not supposed to be solely done by installing products made by the company he personally is a leading shareholder.
No doubt as the years go on, Apple will slash the price of its iPad -- just as it did with its iPhone, iMac, and iPod -- it's other 3 major hardware products introduced since 2000. School systems should be able to get take advantage of bulk-shipment and direct purchasing to shave tens of dollars or more off the price of new iPads. Bundling them with credits for textbooks, which Apple & schools know in advance they will be purchasing, doesn't seem inconceivable either.
Kids can have a much richer, interactive experience with their text book material, their professor, their classmates, and colleague students at other schools in their county system. Paper will not give them that.
At this time, I don't see grade school students as a target user and I don't think Apple does either. The iPad user interface is clearly vital because everyone knows that first and second graders are not natural born typists but they do have masterful skills at pushing buttons displayed on computer screens. They also drop, throw, hit, slam, and kick things though too.
Ipad has become of the best technological device which really has turned our life into easiness. That is why I've been missing Steive Jobbs.
What guys do you think on it ?
Good idea, poor hardware. Plus no significant support from publishers which is crucial. It's wonderful the the big publishers are onboard to make textbooks for iPads, but they need to open it up to other devices as well
My guess is that apple will adjust the price to whatever point is necessary to place enough iPads to make them the standard in K-12 education. I wouldn't be surprised to see the iPad 2 heavily discounted for schools when the iPad 3 comes out.
Colleges will take care of themselves. The students will either by iPads or dead-tree books depending on their preference and budget.
They seem to be starting with high school content; I assume the will start working their way down through the grades after they make some inroads at that level. I think the college market will take care of itself because the textbooks are so much more expensive.
I don't know about everyone else, but for every class I considered important to my major, I did not sell back my text book. If these had been 15 dollar ebooks, not only would I have a lot more shelf space right now, I'd also have saved a few hundred dollars.
Schools should not rely on Apple. The textbook companies should be the ones pushing the initiative. With so many platforms to choose from and the ease to port text across them, just let schools use whatever platform makes the most economic sense. Kindles are interactive enough. Touch Screen, Video, and Basic Learning Games. Apple iPad for even High School kids is a laugh. Kindle-type devices are the way to go. Over time could bring the cost and weight of these things down so low that you could fit every year of a student's education to one Kindle.
Better yet, remember One Laptop per Child program? Just use the Kindle 3G as a micro cell and that can convert almost all of Africa's schools to internet capable with interactive learning and with news around the world. It would only take a few years. With Kindle's battery life and capabilities, the issue of power problems wouldn't really effect it as much as it would a laptop.
These things would end up costing like $20.00 to manufacture.
![Why iPad Textbooks Are Still Too Expensive for Schools [INFOGRPAHIC]](http://cdn4.diggstatic.com/story/why_ipad_textbooks_are_still_too_expensive_for_schools_infogrpahic/t.png)
casspaFeb 10, 2012
SO MUCH MONIES
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
No, way cheaper for college students than tgextbooks. It would pay for itself in a semester or two, and that is if college students only used them for text books.
In reality, the college students that are not becoming IT computer programmers can just skip buying an old fashioned laptop/PC which saves tons of money. They'll gain access to tons of free and 99 cent apps.
So they will save a fortune and gain a treasure.
Not a harsh lesson at all, especially compared to some technologies and deals out there that have oversold themselves as strictly happy and under-disclosed their true TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). In recessions particularly, TCO becomes a huge factor.
barackalypseFeb 10, 2012
"Because of the way iBooks will be linked to specific user accounts, reuse from year-to-year isn’t possible; "
Why? Just like kids turn the physical textbooks back at the end of the term for the next term's students to use, have them turn back in the iPad. Or, create generic accounts by grade level and at the end of each grade clear the account in the student's iPad and load in a generic account for the next grade level.
lunarparcelFeb 10, 2012
Excellent point. Since the general stance of the article is predicated on the concept that the government or the schools would be purchasing the iPads for the students to use, it would stand to reason that the account, data, and content management falls under purview of the school, not the student. As such, the student relinquishes the device and content back to the school, which is then free to utilize for the next student.
amaoicanFeb 11, 2012
Bingo.
Though it is a little pointless and clumsy for the 4th graders to leave their iPads behind for the 3rd graders (etc) each year. Makes more sense that the school would buy, say, 100 license of an Algebra eBook, then be able to authorize an deauthorize individual books on individual devices from a web site.
The 3rd grader keeps his iPad when he moves to 4th grade, but his 3rd grade books magically disappear and are replaced by 4th grade books.
I could also see the schools requiring parents to buy the iPads, albeit perhaps at a subsidized price for lower-income families.
mu5qularFeb 12, 2012
Or encourage parents to buy the iPad if they want the latest and greatest. Some of these kids will will own iPads. And would rather have them at school then the last year or two old model schools will end up with from time to time.
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
I assume that the licensing agreement for the books will prohibit transferring them to other students. The only reason the publishers agreed to the low price was to eliminate reuse and resale.
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
Well, there is nothing that says that there cannot be two accounts per device, if Apple wants to tweak their architecture in their store & iOS devices to work that way. It would sort of make sense to have a similar arrangement for Enterprise bought commercial software two.
One could be for the permanent/actual owner of the phone, and one would be for the institution buying (or renting?) textbooks (or apps?) for the user who temporarily or permanently owns the device. Severing a relationship with an institution would sever the accessibility of that institution's apps and textbooks on the iPad (or iPhone).
Doesn't seem like the most complex thing in the world. Apple licked a lot more complex problems that daunted competitors since the 1990s and which still lay unsolved in those guy's realms.
That would give flexibility you indicate as needed and leave everyone feeling happy that they are not getting ripped off.
Well, except for the guys with gargantuan paper mills and printing presses, which I think have already read the writing on the wall about their industry anyway.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
I'm sure the school would have an admin account for all the devices and the students would have limited access to the device; just like school supplied computers.
HoopDoctorsFeb 10, 2012
I guess they would save money not having to cover their textbooks with brown paper?
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
Foam rubber or thick neoprene might be more appropriate if I remember my school days correctly!
I know they are made of corning Gorilla Glass but better safe than sorry!
flexebleFeb 10, 2012
Not only do school systems have to consider the price of the iPad but the cost of the book.
superkendallFeb 11, 2012
The cost of the book is only $14.95 (that's the maximum price iBooks can be set at).
lunarparcelFeb 11, 2012
Theoretically. At the moment, that is the pricing structure for the current round of high-school level curriculum, and it is likely to stay that way - but it hasn't yet been addressed what university level or elementary/middle school curriculum will be priced at. It is hoped that the $14.95 cap will be unilateral.
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
Schools are professionals when it comes to purchasing things and getting good deals.
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
School systems, Department of Education, NEA, NSF, or others could self-publish textbooks or supplementary material.
While native apps are single sourced from Apple, iOS devices have always been able to get documents from anywhere via email, synching, or loading off a web page. As long as the document is in some non-proprietary, well known standard file format or PDF, the iOS devices seem to know how to handle it.
For once, cost and compatibility would not be an issue.
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
How about the cost of getting rid of those huge, wall sized, slate blackboards from scores of classrooms per school building?
A collaborative drawing and/or text editing program would let that happen.
At various times, the original web browser (an OS X app it turns out), a version of Mosaic, and the official W3 web browser have supported collaborating editing out of the box.
Being able to see and write on the same "space" is what blackboards are all about. The price of gigantic amounts of slate has got to be huge at this point. That could all be eliminated.
No one would miss them much. Chalk gets on people's fingers, eyes, throats, and lungs. Whiteboard markers smell a bit too strong due to the chemicals.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
I haven't seen a slate blackboard in a school in quite a while.
lunarparcelFeb 11, 2012
I think what we will see is a transitional process of between 4 and 7 years or so, during which the pricing structure breakdown will be extrapolated, subsidized or otherwise accommodated. In that context, the strengths of the new medium will need to be additionally factored in accordance with extraneous and supplemental functionality that includes things like school/student communications and e-learning opportunities. At the moment, it is too easy to look at the whole picture through the limited lens of access to textbooks - but there are a lot more factors to be considered over the next few years.
At the university level, the transitional period is likely to be significantly shorter. This is due largely to the fact that at that level, students typically purchase the texts themselves instead of the texts being furnished for them by the university. (Yes, there are some exceptions). These costs frequently involve student investment of $300 - $500 or more for textbooks per semester. Two semesters of this can become comparable to the up front cost of an iPad, plus the requisite iBooks versions of the texts. In some cases, the iPad route could even prove to be less costly (though without the option to sell the texts back at the end of a semester....although eating the cost of a $15 iBooks isn't too bad compared to earning $22 back on the cost of a $180 calculus text.) After which time the student still retains the iPad which provides significantly greater functionality across of range of educationally-based uses.
bestenemyFeb 11, 2012
When I went to college I not only bought used books for cheap, I managed to sell them to the next guy in the end for the exact same amount.
Try pulling the same thing off with an iPad. Try sharing, borrowing or lending a book on an iPad. In fact, try doing those things with any of your apps and content and see how well that works out.
theonekenFeb 11, 2012
When you resold that book, you lost far more than the $15 that a book on an iPad would theoretically cost.
rraniadaFeb 11, 2012
That's great but isn't that greedy?
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
Not at my college.
At my school, what the university did is monopolize the text book resale business.
You either paid full price for a book, which was nearly $100 back then and is probably often higher now, or you bought a book from them for about 75% of full price and you sold it back to them at the end of the semester for 10% of full price.
We basically paid 66% of the really expensive books' prices to rent them a few months, and kept them if we really liked them, in which case we were out not just 66% but more like 75% of the full price. And that is for used text books. You could get pink eye from one, have to deal with random highlighting and circling, and all kinds of weird stuff. One of my used text books came with dried blood on the front cover.
With electronic textbooks, at least you do not have to deal with hand-me-down bodily fluids and human pathogens.
Plus, I would rather pay $15 than $100 any old day, especially when I get to keep that textbook and carry it with me wherever I go.
larse1wrFeb 11, 2012
Technology is rapidly evolving into schools. When will they just teach programming as part of required curriculum! html, css are not to hard, sql.... kids need to learn these computer languages too!
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
Whatever programming they are learning in school will be hopelessly obsolete when they graduate. At this point, computers/tablets are just ubiquitous tools that should be transparent to the user. The average user doesn't need to program any more than the average driver needs to know how to rebuild a transmission.
yurmutha412Feb 11, 2012
Do we need to know math, then, or anything else? Math is seldom used outside of high school. Maybe we should just learn to type and click mouse buttons.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
0crabby0Feb 11, 2012
Well, counting cards, and Sudoku - Those are kind of real world applications of math? lol
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
I use math every day, I use English every day. I haven't had to program since the days of punch cards. It's useful to understand the fundamental concepts, but their is little point in teaching specific programming languages at that level. Programming is a specific skill that very few people need to know; it is the equivalent to teaching auto repair and hairdressing in high school. Programming is not a fundamental, it is vocational training.
yurmutha412Feb 11, 2012
You probably don't use a lot of the math taught in high school, or history, or many other things. I don't think it should be required, but it should be an elective just as second (spoken) languages, etc. It's a heads up for people that will be using it in later life. I took metal shop and wood shop in high school and they are vocational. I don't see it as that, though. I see it as part of knowing what's going on in the world and being able to solve problems with tools. Once you know one computer language it's very easy to learn more.
They are all fundamentally the same. The point is, Apple computers have more uses than text books, and I'm questioning the math on this site. The price of tablet computers will continue to drop. The price of text books will continue to increase. What about students that are left out of the computer age because of poverty? That's a pretty big gap compared to the rest. I'm sure many parents will be willing to supply the computers to their own children so these costs are being exaggerated to prove a point.
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
I agree that programming should be offered as an elective, my daughter's high school offers several classes. I just don't think it should be required.
I agree that it will be a challenge to get every student an iPad. Many parents will not be able or willing to pay $500, so the schools will have to provide at least some of the devices. I do think apple will offer some discounts, just like the have with MacBooks (my daughter's school currently provides the white MacBooks to students who don't have their own). I wouldn't be surprised to see them sell iPads for about $300 to schools; I also wouldn't be surprised to see them sponsor programs to give them to low income students.
I think we will hear more about this, probably after the next iPad is announced.
macparrotFeb 11, 2012
Auto repair and hairdressing. If only there was some way to combine them!
Well I thought it was funny
max1001Feb 11, 2012
You need math in life way more HTML. LOL.
yurmutha412Feb 11, 2012
html isn't a good example because it's a markup language not a computer language. Computer languages are pure logic. Do you need logic in life? I think so.
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
Math is used a heck of a lot outside of high school. If you go into science, computers, accounting, business, marketing, management, investing, purchasing, or any of zillions of other fields then you are going to do some math.
People might exaggerate how much it will be for some fields and understate how special-purpose the kind of math you wind up doing will be, but "there will be math!".
One of the things Apple/Google are working on with their public open source WebKit project is MathML. Mozilla has supported it for a decade in their web browsers. Apple and Google are not exactly rushing out their MathML efforts, however.
Perhaps the advent of this new Apple product line or I guess marketplace even will turn up the heat within Apple to get the MathML document support completed.
It will make math & science textbooks and homework equations a lot easier to write. The results are incredibly readable compared to the way complex math normally looks on an ASCII-only computer text field or display.
andysasylumFeb 10, 2012
They could all get Toshiba handbooks.
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
Yup, as soon as toshiba makes all the content deals with the publishers. Alternatively, the individual schools can buy those devices and try to make their own deals with the publishers for ebooks in a different format.
I wish someone would, competition is good for everyone.
rubourdFeb 11, 2012
Uh, Kindle?
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
Uh, nope.
2mrwhiteFeb 11, 2012
Exactly what I was thinking . . .
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
Kindle is not really a computer. In terms of its capabilities, it is a book reading appliance with an experimental or slow web browser; neither is especially desirable.
Track record of Android-based devices (e.g. Fire) is abysmal when it comes to shipping with the current OS or every updating to the current OS. Going from a system where you have text books that are several years out of date to where you have a text book appliance that is several years out of date is not a complete step up for students.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
I agree, but some future version of the kindle will probably by a useful device (not just a book reader). At some point there will be real competition in this market (assuming that apple doesn't lock it up before these guys finally get their act together).
bloodrainFeb 11, 2012
i was at one of the convention McGraw-Hill for Florida schools and ask them why is it more money for same book that is at a local book store. at the school and then also ask them why their so much money due to a majority of the subject matter is the same every year . to the the person(from McGraw-Hill) was doing the run around about the answer after the facts and then finale walk away not answering the question.
enroniasFeb 11, 2012
That's assuming the schools pay full price (which they wouldn't since there are discount and even leasing programs that make it more economical for schools to purchase them).
Also assuming the need to be replaced every four years isn't necessarily true, if they are used primarily for books/internet/productivity they do not have to be the latest and greatest.
And finally I believe the point is to create a medium that stimulates learning and excites students to learn and makes them excel and not necessarily makes it dirt cheap for schools to get books.
gkiltzFeb 11, 2012
The students have been paying inflated textbook prices for decades.
salanmonFeb 11, 2012
Give it 5 years with Amoled screens using today's tablet processing power then I think we can make something cheap enough to pass around, it would be basic but it'll get the job done
weebitFeb 11, 2012
Save your schools money and use Khan Academy, and ck-12. Both of these are free and they don't use Proprietary content . I cant understand how Apple thinks that schools, teachers, and students will be throwing money like this to them. It wont happen unless Apple gives them a big break. But still you have a problem with the Proprietary content. You have to stick around and wait for the publisher to decide to update the content. Either way the schools still lose. This is no way to teach students.
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
I think the point is to use that "proprietary content," those are the text books that have been approved by individual school districts for those classes. At the K-12 level, individual teaches don't get to adjust the curriculum on the own. Apple's leverage is the fact that they have gotten the publishers of those books to enter into agreements at a pretty decent price. Anyone else that wants to compete is free to do the same.
weebitFeb 11, 2012
They are not competing when they are offering the same content for the same price. Go back and read the article again. Better yet I will post it here for you...
"A representative of textbook publisher McGraw-Hill made clear to Mashable shortly after Apple’s announcement that the functional cost of a digital textbook for a school will actually be the same as the paper version, despite the much lower sticker price. Because of the way iBooks will be linked to specific user accounts, reuse from year-to-year isn’t possible; a freshman algebra textbook purchased in 2012 will need to be repurchased for new incoming freshman in 2013. If you use the standard cost and lifespan estimates for paper textbooks of $75 and five years, the digital versions end up costing the same as the paper editions."
This not what Duncan wanted he clearly stated he wanted cheaper alternatives. He also stated he wanted a more robust educational experience for students, and here is McGraw-Hill pushing out the same content at the same price. No tools for teachers either. Now add the 75 bucks some schools had leveraged 65 dollars and even 60 bucks per hard copy. So schools will be paying more for their digital textbooks as much as 15 bucks extra. This I have first hand knowledge in. Certain books do cost 75 bucks, but the average is $65.00 per hard copy. So no they are not saving any money at all. No they are not getting a better version in the digital textbook. They are getting slammed with the same.
Oh and teachers do want to choose, and many schools are allowing them too.
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
Of course the publishers are not going to make a deal that costs them money, they are going to make sure they have the same annual income for the same content. I thought everyone already understood that.
The choice is between carrying around dead trees or an electronic device that has more capability and can be easily updated. The advantage of an iPad (or equivilant device) is the ability to include interactive content and to update it in real time as new information or corrections become available. Obviously, providing custom content for every iBook will depend on having a large enough market to pay for that content. The initial revisions will probably be the same as the old books.
The challenge is to make the cost work for school districts. Some of these schools already provide $1000 computers, so a $500 device will be more attractive. Other schools do not provide technology, so this will be a new cost. To make this work, they need to reach a critical mass that will allow the publishers to start moving away from paper and settle on their standard. If apple wants to own this market, they need to price the hardware aggressively enough to become the standard in a large number of school districts before the other technology companies wake up. Fortunately, they have enough cash to buy their way into this market through deep discounts and donations.
As always, their business model is to break even on content and make money selling hardware. This is no different than taking over the music business; lock in deals to provide inexpensive content in a proprietary format (based on large volume) and sell the devices at a profit. This is a huge market that is stuck in the 19th century.
weebitFeb 11, 2012
After talking with teachers the number one concern is cost. The number two concern is being locked in. They don't want a company telling them how they can use content that is decades and centuries old. I had a few teachers to tell me what was going on. None said who the provider was. But you can guess it is one of the major three.
First they get the content along with rules
they can't copy the content
they can't port it to their own devices
students that don't have access because of internet issues have no way to back up and view later. Their teacher is at a standstill because one of the big three wont improvise.
Teachers now stuck in this rut now want better alternatives. Even if this means making their own content from scratch. Because it makes no sense going digital if the students don't have several options for viewing the content.
students need a few of these options or all:
They can view it online,
Buy a bound edition for five bucks
Check out the book in their library
View a DVD version
Print a hard copy from the web.
mlinkeFeb 11, 2012
Why wouldn't they be able to download and update the content at school?
macparrotFeb 11, 2012
Viewed online via an account and password...sure why not
Buy a bound edition for $5...nope, the bound edition (which won't have any interactive content) would be their usual price otherwise what's the point?
Check it from the library...sure why not
View a DVD version...unless the DVD has interactive functions, how would it work? Chapter marks for each page?
Print a hard copy from the web...how many hundreds of pages would that be, why would publishers allow that since the potential for abuse is pretty high
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
My understanding is that the authoring tools are free, any teacher that wants to create his own content is free to distribute it to his students. I doubt many teachers will author their own text books, but I'm sure some will create supplemental information for their classes. Hopefully the publishers will be more likely to keep their content current if they don't have to print and transport physical books. Also, I hope this would lower the barrier for competition in the textbook industry. Part of the reason that the "big three" have a vurtual monopoly is the cost of printing these books. This is just a first step.
If the content is on a device, why do they need an online version or a hard copy, especially if they can annotate it? I own dozens of books and hundreds of work-related documents that only exist in the iBook format (including PDFs). These books are stored locally on the iPad, I don't need Internet access to view them. This provides more flexibility than my daughter's current high school, which is 100% online and does require Internet access to view the material, attend vurtual classes, and take tests. Her online testbooks have similar interactivity, but she needs to use them on her MacBook while connected to wi-fi. Reading a tablet is a better experience than reading a computer screen.
I assume libraries could keep hard copies, but they will lack any interactive features. I really don't see the point of maintaining a physical copy or an online version.
I doubt that DVDs will exist in 5 years. Try to find a floppy drive today.
mlinkeFeb 11, 2012
Once the iPad 3 goes to retail, I predict dated hardware, iPad 2s, being sold to schools at or near cost. Assuming Apple's standard 30% cut applies, they make 4.50 on every text book purchased.
weebitFeb 11, 2012
The content made by McGraw-Hill is proprietary. (copyrighted) as with any of the hard copy publishers.
"Why wouldn't they be able to download and update the content at school?"
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
I agree, in the short term. In the long term, they will make plenty of money on the hardware as the iPad becomes more of a replacement for the computer. This will help them lock in school districts that will eventually buy (future) iPads for their students instead of laptops. I hope that I can replace my MacBooks with iPads in a few years, they are much more portable. The current iPad is not a full computer, but that will change.
mlinkeFeb 13, 2012
"The content made by McGraw-Hill is proprietary. (copyrighted) as with any of the hard copy publishers."
This was in response to the questions asking how students would get the purchased books onto the ipads if their families can not afford internet access. If the school is providing the ipads, the purchased books can be loaded at the school.
0crabby0Feb 11, 2012
Hmmm... I wonder what textbook format would display on an HP 48G graphics calculator?
That's what I want... I don't want have to carry an iPad to class...lol
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
MathML would be the only logical choice. Until 2 minutes ago, I thought Apple had not released MathML support in any of their products.
However, reading the following page, informed me that Apple did in fact roll out MathML support in Safari 5.1.
https://vismor.com/documents/site_implementation/viewing_mathematics/S5.SS1.php
If you read further down the page I have cited above, you will see that not only does the desktop version of Safari have MathML support but the iPad version of Safari does too. It says MathML was released in the iPad on October 2011.
If you look at the rightmost column on this page, you will see how MathML is rendered by your web browser.
Whether possible, Apple seems to base its book-document technologies on web-document standard technologies. So I would be surprised if MathML support was left out of iBook textbooks for long, and not so surprised if it was already there.
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
It's twice the cost of textbooks for K-12 students but look at two things that the authors didn't mention.
First, parents won't have to spend a fortune on a PC for their child. Something cheaper, handier, more self contained, more child-friendly and yes -- tote-able to school -- can be substituted for it. These textbooks in most cases can be up to date. By contrast, the textbooks I had in K-12 seemed to be outdated and often victims of abuse. The index will doubtless be more lively in an iPad book than a 2-inch thick heavy hardback book too.
Second, the article shies away from the subject of costly college textbooks, which apparently, was the atrocity Steve Jobs and company had in their sites when they created this electronic textbook program. That is where the killer savings will be made. College students will actually use a ton of study-aiding features like "search" that will not only make their work easier, but satisfy their curiosity making learning somewhat fun for more of them, more of the time.
Couple other factors to weigh in:
(a) Kids in 1/3 of my grades in grade school were apologetic thieves, stealing books and money when they got the chance. Not all kids, but it only takes one to steal something. I'm sure that I was not the only child who went to school with future -- well, already -- larcenous criminals. Kids break stuff too; their own and others. The iPads are made of toughened class. They're not nerfballs. There would have to be some kind of physical security and ruggedization at a very low cost, the likes of which we have not seen in the computer field yet.
(b) College institutions and American families have had a very mixed experience with desktops and laptops. The ones running Windows are semi universally infected with malware; trojans, viruses, and worms. All three find it easy to spread across a college campus. Nobody has Windows malware under control and the efforts have been full force for a decade and still are deemed a miserable failure. The iPad and its app-running precursor have been out for years. As yet on iPad/iPhone no epidemics or pandemics, both of which are endemic to Windows. Even Microsoft will readily admit once it gets a substitute OS out that its previous OS, currently the current one, was abysmal. College kids have credit cards, loan accounts, and social security numbers. Not having these things stolen by mysterious Eastern hemisphere gangs is this year, one of the greatest concerns families have. Claims hacking of Windows has been so devastatingly successful due to market share, popularity, or careless users at this point is a joke. Apple headed off all those dangers at the outset; iPad is safer than a Windows laptop.
Hopefully, the Bill Gates foundation, which is a self described non profit, will take measures to help high schools afford iPads which will finally deliver on his pledge to improve school students education using computing technology. That is not supposed to be solely done by installing products made by the company he personally is a leading shareholder.
No doubt as the years go on, Apple will slash the price of its iPad -- just as it did with its iPhone, iMac, and iPod -- it's other 3 major hardware products introduced since 2000. School systems should be able to get take advantage of bulk-shipment and direct purchasing to shave tens of dollars or more off the price of new iPads. Bundling them with credits for textbooks, which Apple & schools know in advance they will be purchasing, doesn't seem inconceivable either.
Kids can have a much richer, interactive experience with their text book material, their professor, their classmates, and colleague students at other schools in their county system. Paper will not give them that.
At this time, I don't see grade school students as a target user and I don't think Apple does either. The iPad user interface is clearly vital because everyone knows that first and second graders are not natural born typists but they do have masterful skills at pushing buttons displayed on computer screens. They also drop, throw, hit, slam, and kick things though too.
lissa96325Feb 11, 2012
Ipad has become of the best technological device which really has turned our life into easiness. That is why I've been missing Steive Jobbs.
What guys do you think on it ?
NestsoftFeb 11, 2012
Aakash Tablets For Andhra Students At Rs 1500 in India http://www.indianewstop.com/News-2469024/Aakash-Tablets-For-Andhra-Students-At-Rs-1500
macparrotFeb 11, 2012
Good idea, poor hardware. Plus no significant support from publishers which is crucial. It's wonderful the the big publishers are onboard to make textbooks for iPads, but they need to open it up to other devices as well
craig1958Feb 11, 2012
My guess is that apple will adjust the price to whatever point is necessary to place enough iPads to make them the standard in K-12 education. I wouldn't be surprised to see the iPad 2 heavily discounted for schools when the iPad 3 comes out.
Colleges will take care of themselves. The students will either by iPads or dead-tree books depending on their preference and budget.
johnnysoftwareFeb 11, 2012
I would be extremely surprised if Apple strongly targets kindergarten students within the next two to three years as a "textbook" user demographic.
Last time I checked, kindergarten students were not taught to read yet. That was forestalled until first grade.
craig1958Feb 12, 2012
They seem to be starting with high school content; I assume the will start working their way down through the grades after they make some inroads at that level. I think the college market will take care of itself because the textbooks are so much more expensive.
mlinkeFeb 11, 2012
I don't know about everyone else, but for every class I considered important to my major, I did not sell back my text book. If these had been 15 dollar ebooks, not only would I have a lot more shelf space right now, I'd also have saved a few hundred dollars.
mlinkeFeb 11, 2012
We also don't know how much the iPad 2 will cost come march when the iPad 3 comes out.
technopunditFeb 11, 2012
Greed.
partrowFeb 14, 2012
If you really mean that, I assume you know the actual cost of the unit, the average sale price, and the resulting profit margin?
josh53188Feb 12, 2012
Schools should not rely on Apple. The textbook companies should be the ones pushing the initiative. With so many platforms to choose from and the ease to port text across them, just let schools use whatever platform makes the most economic sense. Kindles are interactive enough. Touch Screen, Video, and Basic Learning Games. Apple iPad for even High School kids is a laugh. Kindle-type devices are the way to go. Over time could bring the cost and weight of these things down so low that you could fit every year of a student's education to one Kindle.
Better yet, remember One Laptop per Child program? Just use the Kindle 3G as a micro cell and that can convert almost all of Africa's schools to internet capable with interactive learning and with news around the world. It would only take a few years. With Kindle's battery life and capabilities, the issue of power problems wouldn't really effect it as much as it would a laptop.
These things would end up costing like $20.00 to manufacture.
urdumania1Feb 11, 2012
I barely had money for food.