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blue_kNov 6, 2010
it looks like a nice car, but I think it is over priced.
nerysNov 6, 2010
The volt is a slap in the face to anyone with half a brain and a minor knowledge of the history involved here.
there are plenty of cars for under $15k brand new that can go FARTHER than 350 miles on 9.6 gallons of gasoline.
thats only 36mpg. that is DISGUSTING is what that is.
bipolarNov 7, 2010
But if you drive it less then 40 miles a day, and charge it off the mains at home, you will use no gas whatsoever. There is no other production car that can do that which also has the range that the backup gasoline engine gives it. It has the ability to nurse us off of gasoline entirely. That is most certainly not "disgusting".
nerysNov 7, 2010
but I don't want 350 miles range. I want 100 miles range NO GAS in a simple cheap car. not a crazy expensive car that can NEVER EVER save you one single penny. Do the math. I drive 40,000 miles a year and this car can NEVER pay for itself in fuel savings before you have to replace the battery.
a good simple NIMH powered car would be nearly FREE from day one.(the savings in gas would exceed the loan payment)
but only with a SIMPLE NIMH powered car they can easily make but REFUSE TO because its not where near as profitable long term as something like this.
the PURPOSE of the volt is to "hold us over" till they can cram hydrogen fuel cells down out throat.
abdulnNov 7, 2010
@ nerys
"but I don't want 350 miles range. I want 100 miles range NO GAS in a simple cheap car"
It's simple, you shouldn't buy a Volt then... Nobody is forcing you to. As for people who do want to buy the Volt, that's not your concern.
They car companies are interested in selling cars to that work for the bulk of your customers, not just for you... I know that's disappointing, but hey, most of us learn pretty early on the universe does not revolve around us.
nerysNov 7, 2010
That is where you are simple wrong abduln. They are not interested in selling cars to the bulk of people. They are interested in selling the most PROFITABLE cars to the bulk of people the Economy be damned The Environment be damned Our Financial well being be damned and our Energy Independence be damned.
So while this is not quite GM's problem when they ABUSE the patent system to MAKE 100% certain NO ONE ELSE can make these affordable cars you damned better believe that should be my problem and it should be YOUR PROBLEM TOO.
When they say HEY look what we made look how good it is look how clean it is look how much it will save and its 100% a lie 100% the opposite direction from what they DID HAVE that WAS cheaper that WAS cleaner that actually DID make an advancement THEY YES it damned well SHOULD be my problem and it should be YOUR problem as well.
If they don't want to make them? FINE but they should NOT be allowed to RIG the system to keep anyone else from making them. that is an immoral and in my book illegal ABUSE of the system. and you should be PISSED ABOUT IT.
they are working on OUR GOD DAMNED DIME HERE they should be doing what is RIGHT FOR US. not what is RIGHT FOR THEM AND ONLY THEM.
bipolarNov 7, 2010
"but I don't want 350 miles range. I want 100 miles range NO GAS in a simple cheap car."
"I drive 40,000 miles a year"
"Do the math."
40,000 / 365 = 109.5
Your requirements are impossible to match with your mileage. You would have to drive your car 109.5 miles every single day to reach 40k miles, and the car you want only goes 100miles on a charge. Unless your charging it twice a day, which would require a special charging station to do it in any reasonable amount of time. The only place likely to have one would be your house.
The purpose of the Volt, other then to make money for GM, is to put fast recharge stations in demand in public places. Once we have the charging stations everywhere we go, we will need the gasoline engines less and less.
Maybe eventually we'll have induction power built into the roads and we can do away with gasoline engines altogether. Right now, thats all a pie in the sky dream. The Volt is a good compromise to make the best out of what we have right now.
If you're worried about the price, don't be an early adopter. Thats the price of shiny new technology.
Perhaps Nissan Leaf would better suit you? It has a range of between 46 to 116 miles per charge, depending on the type of driving your doing. It's still pretty expensive though. MSRP $32,780 for the cheap one.
As for your suggestion of using NiMH batteries, I don't think you could get the same range out of them. They carry quite a bit of extra weight over Li-Ion, not to mention poor cold weather performance, and less useful recharges.
nerysNov 7, 2010
No your just not aware of the conditions in volved here. I drive around 110 to 150 miles a day. a 100 mile range car is MORE than enough. Figure worse case scenario heat on raining lights on I get 75 miles range. maybe 65 miles range.
My commute is 54 miles one way.
SO get this. I drive 54 miles to work and ... PLUG IN.
I drive 54 miles home and ... PLUG IN.
NO GAS. and with NIMH power it will only take about $1.5 to $2.0 in electricity to GO that 100 miles (Lithium has a lot of overhead power requirements for balancing and COOLING while charging ie far less efficient when charging)
If I can get 10cent nightly power its $1 to recharge that battery for 100 miles or since I will use half the capacity getting home about 50 cents to top up the battery each night.
Sure sometimes I need to go more than 100 miles. You know what I do then? I drive the god damned car I already have.
I don't need a special recharging station. a 50% charge takes 4 hours from a normal run of the mill 220v outlet. I work 10 hours I sleep at least 8 hours. I don't see a problem here.
Nimhs were already in use and are STILL in use today. GM made the EV1 and was getting 140 to 160 miles range PER CHARGE from them.
Toyota used them in the RAV4 EV (a regular gas rav4 glider with electric tossed in NOT EVEN OPTIMIZED for electric) and they were getting 80-110 miles per charge. (80 in the winter 110 in the summer)
so yes the range is already their and that batter was $4500 full retail price.
Less useful charges? I think you have your battery chemistry backwards. NIMH was rated to 250,000 miles to 80% SOC
Toyota ran one to 300,000 miles before they GAVE UP and said OK the battery is that good lets use it.
There are still RAV4EV's on the road today with over 150,000 miles on the ORIGINAL 12 year old battery packs. Testing found ZERO degradation in battery life so far after 150,000 miles and 12 years.
For the average person EVEN ME with my 54mile commute I could goto 60% SOC before battery degradation became a problem AT ALL. that means for the AVERAGE user 25-30 years before they would need to think about replacing the battery.
you would be VERY VERY VERY lucky to get 10 years out of a Lithium battery pack many estimates say as low as 5 years lifespan.
SO what do you mean by less useful recharges? NIMH beats Lithium in every category except 2. #1 pack mass. but since the nimh pack has "ENOUGH" range to be useful its irrelevant.
#2 Power Density. Again irrelevant since they are only putting 40 mile packs or 100 mile in the case of the leaf in the cars anyway.
Nimh win in PRICE $4500 for a 25 year pack versus (using the leaf) $10,000 for a 5-10 year pack.
Nimh win in lifespan
Nimh wins in recylability and feasibility
Nimh win in efficiency (power to recharge)
Nimh just wins all around.
Can lithium be superior in the end? SURE but that is not today and does us NO GOOD today.
So again. Do the math.
I can 100% prove they can make a profitable $13.500 100 mile range NIMH powered car RIGHT NOW.
With the $7500 government rebate thats a $6000 car loan with NO down payment or trade in. even with BAD interest rates thats under $120 a month for the loan payment on a 5 year note.
How much do you spend in gas each month?
EVEN DRIVING MY 50mpg GEO METRO I spend $123 a month in gasoline.
the AVERAGE american driving 12,000 miles a year at 20mpg spends $135 a month in gasoline.
The damned car would be virtually FREE from day #1 and you would never have to buy another gallon of gasoline ever again unless you need to drive your gas car for a longer trip.
nerysNov 7, 2010
OH and grid usage would GO DOWN not UP. a nimh powered electric car (probably lithium too even though its less efficiency charging) uses LESS POWER to go 100 miles than our society uses to put 5 gallons of gasoline in your car.
spincity07Nov 7, 2010
As much as this guy came off as troll in the beginning, he seems to be pretty bang on about what he talks about. Did you know, Texaco bought the patent for NiMH batteries? Sons of bitches can't figure out there going out of business and now are controlling what we can or cant buy.
hipmanNov 6, 2010
Yeah right.
gtofan350Nov 6, 2010
I want 4 of them please, to go.
howeaNov 6, 2010
Batteries not included
exploit67Nov 6, 2010
Why is the damn car so expensive? The government needs to give us incentive to go all electric. These cars should be 20K and everyone should switch over so we can save precious oil for other things.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
hipmanNov 6, 2010
Subsidies are not a solution.Merely a mask.An unsustainable one.
jhw539Nov 6, 2010
Yeah, look at the boondoggle that resulted from past subsidies, from Hoover dam, to the Interstate highways, to the Internet...
fxspec06Nov 6, 2010
$45 a month to charge.
Filling my '07 Sentra (29/37mpg) every week / week and a half costs ~$20.
That's $80+ / month with my current car, for a total savings of $35+ / month for the volt.
I imagine others would save much more with than I. Of course, you pay a premium, but for the efficiency and the added benefits of saving the environment, it's more than worth it. 5 Stars from me.
majumdarNov 6, 2010
It may even less electrical cost in places (such as Quebec) where we have Hydro for about $0.07 / Kilowatt-hour ... interesting.
sevenvtNov 7, 2010
Saving money, but still using gas.
When heroin addicts are supposed to quit, they don't just take a hit of the good stuff because they had to go 40 miles.
blue20aeNov 6, 2010
It takes gasoline or electric as input, so it is a hybrid to me, not a TRUE electric car.
neocorvinNov 6, 2010
electric cars..someone or some company should make a cheaper version. we are running out of gas here.
canadianmacfanNov 6, 2010
There's still lots of oil left under the ground. We're running out of the high quality, easy to access oil.
For example there's plenty of oil in the oil sands of Alberta. It just takes five times the energy to process it compared to conventional oil and it's a dirty, environmentally unfriendly method to extract.
sevenvtNov 7, 2010
Lets say, that in effect when a method of fueling our vehicles becomes cost prohibitive, such as when the time comes that we are sucking the oil out of shop rags to go grocery shopping, thats when even though we aren't "out" of oil, we are actually out.
DallasWNov 6, 2010
It's awesome but costs way to damn much.
badashe86Nov 6, 2010
Scientific American magazine had an interesting article talking about the carbon footprint that charging these vehicles causes. Depending on where in the United States you live, the electricity needed to recharge these cars is dependant on dirtier fuel sources that the fossil fuels currently used in the old gas engines.
For some states that rely on renewable sources, like Texas, the electric cars make sense (unfortunately the 40 mile range pretty much strands you on most trips), but in places like Pennsylvania which uses coal to power its electric plants, you're actually harming the environmental more using an electric car.
canadianmacfanNov 6, 2010
"If you coast or go downhill (think no acceleration), the wheels of your car can serve to help charge the battery backup."
Physics fail! If you start charging the battery when you are not accelerating then you won't be able to coast as you will be slowing down. The batteries will only be charged when you use the brakes.
rocko_stazettiNov 6, 2010
Truly electric my ass!
canadianmacfanNov 6, 2010
Why would you go to a computer magazine to read a car review? It's like going to Car and Driver for a Photoshop review.
sevenvtNov 7, 2010
I love how they go through the blowing of smoke up our skirts about how its a "real electric deal" and then in the same paragraph they get to talking about how after 40 miles, its a gasoline run $40k hybrid.
40 miles doesn't cover round trip to anything outside of your home county, do I rent a car or something so I can still claim its electric? or just come to terms that somehow this electric car... has an appetite for gasoline.
joea789Nov 7, 2010
This probably says it best: You're forced to refill the gas tank once every 12 months!
philpotsNov 7, 2010
This is a beginning and in time cheaper cars and smart highways. The next step would be swappable battery packs at service stations.
karthics4Nov 7, 2010
looking forward to driving
redneckintnNov 8, 2010
The Volt is not pure electric. It has a gasoline engine. This makes it a hybrid. The Nissan Leaf is pure electric.
oldscotchNov 8, 2010
If my commute back and forth is 35 miles, I'd feel much better having a gasoline backup when there's a traffic jam.
Extending the range to 100 miles at the cost of a gas motor is a choice the consumer will make, but I know I won't be comfortable if I need to go 90 miles when there's no backup.
And I've yet to see a report on how these cars do in the cold. Can I expect 40 miles when it's -20?
axxxulNov 8, 2010
Please stop calling it a "true" electric car. This is a hybrid.