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norman619Feb 17, 2011
Piracy isn't about things being free. It's about people taking the property of others and SELLING it for profit. When will people understand that giving s**t away or file sharing isn't piracy?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
stk198323Feb 17, 2011
No piracy is copying something (illegally...) by breaking copyright laws.
STEALING is taking something and giving it away for free or selling it for profit.
When you copy information without the right to do so you are indeed pirating, when you remove information (or an object) from someone then you are stealing.
Sorry but just as much as you want to convince yourself, piracy is not about making a profit for yourself, it's about not wanting to pay for something that you think is too expensive or to use a copy that isn't plagued with DRM crap.
brent1089Feb 17, 2011
While what norman619 said about selling things for a profit is utterly ridiculous your argument doesn't hold very much weight either. Whether or not you take a physical copy the bottom line is you are getting something that you should be paying for for free without the creators permission. This is stealing. Honestly if you just don't care and know what you're doing is stealing, that's fine do whatever you want, but please don't insult the intelligence of the person you are stealing from by claiming it's not stealing or giving some lame excuse like whining about the DRM. If the game/movie/song/etc. is worth your time it is worth your money. producers developers artist recording studio employees etc. work their ass off in a competitive field getting paid much less than what they would be getting paid elsewhere because they love what they do and you are spitting in their face. shame on you.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
xinoFeb 17, 2011
It's not stealing. It's copyright infringement. Also, some people don't like being punished for buying a products as opposed to pirating them. For example, I bought an episode of the Big Bang Theory on Xbox 360 and the deal with that DRM is once you buy some thing on the X360, you're allowed to watch it as many times as you want on the X360 (online and off) you bought it on and you're also allowed to watch it on any other X360 so long as you're signed into the account that paid for it. Then for some reason, they removed The Big Bang Theory from the marketplace and one day I went to a friend's house with my X360 and removed my hard drive with my account and copy of that episode and put it on his X360 and I logged into my account and tried to watch it and it told me I'm no longer allowed to do that and if I ever delete it, I would not be able to download it again even if I went into my download history. So here's an example of them selling defective products. I hate purchasing defective products and as a consequence, I'm more likely to pirate.
NilbogoblinFeb 17, 2011
you're not getting it. When you pirate something, you are obtaining a copy for free without their permission. If the conditions are unsatisfactory, then don't buy it. being dissatisfied with a service does not justify just taking it. you're just making up excuses. look I don't care if you just want something for free, that's what piracy is, what I have a problem with is the bulls**t excuses and pathetic attempts at justifying what you are doing.
stk198323Feb 17, 2011
Sorry but to me this IS an excuse to not pay for it once more.
this would be like paying for a car and then the dealership comes to your house 5 years later and say: well you paid full price but it was more like a lease even if you paid the buying price so hum... this towing right here is taking back the car to the dealership, sorry man.
Of course this doesn't give him the permission of copying OTHER movie/music/game/etc but for THIS one... I just can't imagine what would be wrong with it.
Also DRM IS a pain in the ass, that you want it or not that you like it or not it IS a simple fact that a lot of product has s**tty DRM and if you think I pirate just so i don't have to pay, I will gladly invite you to my house to see all my new PC games not oppened that I have pirated jsut so I play the single player without crappy DRM in it.
1211wrangerFeb 17, 2011
@DiggFerkel I don't know about games but there are many cases in music in which the artist put out their own music and actually benefited greatly from it. It is possible to get content out without the greedy middleman taking his over-large cut of the profit going to the artist. Take Radiohead's In Rainbows, they offered up their own album at a pay what you want price initally and the majority of people did pay. Even if the person didn't pay anything, Radiohead is still getting their name and music out and increasing publicity.
ljseinfeldFeb 18, 2011
@Nilbogoblin
You're not getting it. How can something thats technologically inferior, compete with something that's technologically superior --and Free? It cant.
@DiggFerkel
If only there was some kind of worldwide distribution channel for music/media that doesn't require parasitic middle men to get your music/media delivered to your customers...
dukeFeb 18, 2011
@Nilbogoblin
No, xino said that it wasn't STEALING, which is a true statement. Theft involves depriving the owner of use. An illegal download may be illegal, but it does NOT deprive the owner of use.
What you claimed to define is PIRACY (but technically -- using legal terms -- it isn't piracy either, even though it is often called that in the context of imprecise conversation).
What it actually is, is "copyright infringement", just as xino said. But that term doesn't tend to stir people up into righteous indignation (particularly with less sophisticated individuals who only understand clear black-and-white moral concepts). Consequently, the copyright holders and their lobbyists use simple terms that exaggerate the immorality of the offense, in order to produce a visceral moral outrage.
Whether you think it's right or wrong, and whether or not you think that the justifications are bulls**t, the fact remains that filesharing is neither "theft" nor "piracy", as those legal terms are properly applied.
xinoFeb 18, 2011
IMO, there's no excuse for getting unlimited copyright extensions, charging insane amounts of money for copyright infringement, supporting child porn (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100427/1437179198.shtml), and selling defective products. By buying intellectual property from the MPAA and the RIAA, you're giving them more money which they can use to do a lot more harm so going the legal way isn't the right thing to do either in terms of ethics. Piracy may not be the 'right thing', but it is the lesser wrong thing to do.
effyochickenFeb 18, 2011
@Nilbogoblin
Imagine if the market truly forced the people who produced this content to be competitive? Why do songs all cost 99 cents online, regardless of how good they are? 10 bucks buys a 10-song CD, but is that CD really that costly to produce? I don't want nor need free music. If I could buy songs at 10 cents a song I'd ACTUALLY BUY MUSIC.
Instead of changing their business motos to compete with the fact that piracy exists, they waste their time trying to legally combat it. Not all pirates want it to be free, they just don't want to pay what it is currently priced.
I'll digg you up though. People need to stop kidding themselves and pretending they're internet versions of Robbin hood.
brent1089Feb 17, 2011
If something you want is defective enough to the point where you don't feel it's worth your money to buy. That still doesn't mean you then have the right to steal it. Thats like saying, this prostitute isn't attractive enough for what she's charging, so i'm just going to rape her. It doesn't work that way. If you really want developers to change their ways don't buy the product. I know you think you're "sticking it to the man" but what you're really doing is just kicking the underpaid devs and employees in the balls.
brian1625Feb 18, 2011
I'll continue to view "copied" content until they make convient. (Like NetFlix and Hulu have done) The Market Value for content is 0$. It's how it's packaged that cost money.
brent1089Feb 17, 2011
lol downvote me all you want, you're still stealing.
srh2oFeb 17, 2011
Why stop at stealing? Let's call it murder, that sounds even worse.
Of course the legal definitions disagree with you. Copyright infringement has its own definitions and penalties. You don't need to twist and turn to make it into something it isn't. What it isn't is stealing.
caramba421Feb 17, 2011
Jaja, totally reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXkxSl4f6vw
caramba421Feb 17, 2011
It is not stealing. Intellectual property is a SUBSIDY created by society to encourage creative output. If society, as a whole, decides that the subsidy is no longer encouraging creative output, it can just as easily be taken away.
"...producers developers artist recording studio employees etc. work their ass off in a competitive field getting paid much less than what they would be getting paid elsewhere..."
Blah, blah, blah. Here we go again with the "will someone think of the starving musicians" BS. When Justin Bieber is the best the suits can come up with, while all of the best musicians I have ever known work day jobs, or give private lessons, I think it's safe to say that the status quo isn't really doing much except showing top-line growth for shareholders.
el_jefeFeb 17, 2011
@stk198323
Stealing or theft as defined is the taking of personal goods or property of another. It doesn't have to involve giving away or selling what you take.
sintekFeb 18, 2011
And pirating is not Taking the goods or property of anyone. When i'm done pirating you still have the original and it never left you. I find it difficult that a series of 1's and 0' can be "copywriten" when it is possible to randomly generate that same pattern. Maybe i should copyright the wavelength of the C# note and anyone who uses it I will sue.
avatar78xFeb 17, 2011
ARGGGGH!! a Pirate be a sea robber, who, to enrich himself by subtlety or open force, setteth upon merchants and others trading by sea, despoiling them of their loading, and sometimes bereaving them of life and, sinking their ships!! ARGHH!!
immunofortFeb 18, 2011
So if I went into your house and stole your computer and used it for personal use instead of selling it/giving it away, its not theft?
rjoplingFeb 18, 2011
if you didnt take it out of the house you would just be a dick
immunofortFeb 18, 2011
I was just replying to what stk198323 said which was
"No piracy is copying something (illegally...) by breaking copyright laws.
STEALING is taking something and giving it away for free or selling it for profit."
According to him stealing someones computer for private use isn't stealing.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
harrisbradleyFeb 18, 2011
"STEALING is taking something and giving it away for free or selling it for profit."
...or just keeping it for yourself (which is probably the most common.)
bdbrFeb 17, 2011
Oxford: "The unauthorized reproduction or use of an invention or work of another, as a book, recording, computer software, intellectual property, etc., esp. as constituting an infringement of patent or copyright; plagiarism; an instance of this."
Random House: "the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc."
Collins: "the unauthorized use or appropriation of patented or copyrighted material, ideas, etc"
Webster: "he unauthorized copying, distribution, or use of another's production (as a film) esp. in infringement of a copyright piracy"
Where's the part about selling?
norman619Feb 17, 2011
Wow you guys have no f**king clue. Coypright infringement is sharing files. It's distributing copyrighted material wneh you do not have the rights to do so. Piracy is making infringing copies then SELLING them. That is the legal definition of piracy.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
shark72Feb 18, 2011
You're sort of right, in a way.
It's correct to say that many people (incorrectly) believe that piracy, in the colloquial form, is a particular type of infringement; ie. for profit.
So, if you'd said "Many people believe that is the legal definition of piracy," then you'd be correct.
But, many people believing something does not make it so.
rjoplingFeb 18, 2011
Actually you have no clue. the piracy comes in when downloading the file. i cannot think of a site that uses direct download so the main way the content gets distributed is through p2p. as you are downloading you are also uploading. crazy huh. with that action you are breaking the law. you are not SELLING IT you are GIVING it away. a little at a time.
samoutFeb 18, 2011
norman619, I got your back here... It was only a few years ago that they SWITCHED calling it copyright infrigment (of games, music, movies) to piracy to make it sound more threatening/serious. It's a gimmick to scare away people from doing it. I actually read about it somewhere, it's an official fact. Too bad no linky... :/
Going to Estonia or Russia and buying a game with self-printed covers and badly made discs with cheats and trainer-programs in it (infinite lives, etc).. You bought from a REAL pirate.
shark72Feb 18, 2011
Please define "a few years ago."
When I was on the scene in the 1980s, we traded on dial-up BBSes with names like "The Pirate Cove" (you see, TPB wasn't the first to use this sort of naming), used pseudonyms that played off the word "pirate," and called it "pirating." We were proud software pirates. We happily used the term, having no clue that 25 years later, people would be under the impression that it was somehow a new term. Note that this was all Apple II software! Good times, good times.
Anyway, the first recorded use of "pirate" to denote a copyright infringer has been traced to the 1840s, in a supreme court case relating to the unauthorized duplication of, of all things, a biography of George Washington. This doesn't mean that it wasn't used prior to that; that's simply the first time it's been found in writing.
Can you go into more details about it being an official fact that the term is just a few years old?
sonicgardenFeb 18, 2011
excuse norman619 he is a pedophile from Bronx, New York, he can't think right
:D
joyarogersFeb 17, 2011
If it's FREE... it's for me!! = )
professorzuFeb 17, 2011
Comment of the morning!
joyarogersFeb 17, 2011
That's my Motto! ; )
t04glovernFeb 17, 2011
Like the article stated, a lot of it's ignorance... but in these modern time thats really no excuse. I use to pirate quite a bit but lately I've better educated myself on the topic and it's been more convenient to get my hands on what I want by actually buying it.
If a DVDs to expensive, go rent it. if you actually wanted to keep it; you shouldn't have a problem finding it on sale at your local retailer anyway.
Music on the fly is just as easy and Video gaming is well on it's way towards the same step.
The problem isn't that content is too expensive, it's just because people are too cheap.
ohhaiitsryanFeb 17, 2011
people arent too cheap you assh**e. im an unemployed college student... am i supposed to give up hearing new music while i sit around not having a job? ...when i could illegally download albums from artists ive never heard of- and get the exact same experience for free that id get in buying the music.
piracy allows people to discover. i probably downloaded 10 albums today, and chances are ill end up buying at least one or two of them on vinyl. and maybe even pay to see some of them live.
doesnt that all kind of work out in the end?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
apinksquashFeb 17, 2011
"am i supposed to give up hearing new music while i sit around not having a job?"
- If by that you mean: "Not download music illegally...", then yes, yes you are.
That's what demos/samples/previews are for. If a band is not providing you with a legal means of hearing their music so you can decide if you want to buy it or not, that's the band's fault; it's not an excuse to break the law.
I'm sick of people in my generation having an "entitlement" attitude.
ohhaiitsryanFeb 18, 2011
but that doesnt change the fact that music is endlessly available for free. hey, listening to the new radiohead album right now. downloaded it illegally about an hour ago. and i dont feel the slightest bit of remorse for doing so.
if music if free, im taking it.
mobyzipperFeb 17, 2011
"when i could illegally download albums from artists ive never heard of- and get the exact same experience for free that id get in buying the music."
"piracy allows people to discover."
So by your example people should be able to learn new things without paying for them. "piracy allows people to discover." So we should all be able to go to college for free. and get the same experience without having to pay for it. maybe i'll go to a diner, eat the food enjoy the experience of tasting it, and throw it back up after I tasted it.
Piracy doesn't allow people to discover. Radios do. Maybe even Pandora.com. You have a computer to download and listen. Go Buy some cables hook it up to your stereo and discover some new music legally.
You know what? socializing does also. go talk to some of your friends. see what new artists they are listening to. Have a card game. play the music in the background. I just planned your Friday night. maybe you'll even meet a girl get married and have kids. all because you asked your friends. "what are you listening to these days?"
Can I be invited to the wedding? Can you name your first kid after me?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
caramba421Feb 17, 2011
"So we should all be able to go to college for free."
Funny you should mention it. In almost every first world country except the United States you CAN go to college for free, or for a nominal fee.
antares13Feb 17, 2011
Not that I disagree with having students be able to go to college for little or no upfront cost, but college in other countries isn't free, it's paid for by taxes.
rjoplingFeb 18, 2011
thats what "for a nominal fee" means
phphreakFeb 18, 2011
Free = 25 percent sales tax on everything and $15 bag of chips at the local convenience store.
RyanFeb 18, 2011
Weeelllll.. radio allows people to discover about as much as a 24 year old discovers things in his mom's back yard and Pandora has severe limitations.
And your metaphor is kinda off..
mobyzipperFeb 18, 2011
You miss my point.
Piracy is Illegal. Did you get that one?
If pandora has limitations, come up with something better that is legal.
Here is a challenge, come up with a way to bring money back into the music industry. Small record companies are dying because of piracy. The larger companies only care about the mainstream, So the smaller ones who take the chances on lesser known, indie artists wont be around to discover talented people. Did you get that one. Read it slower if you need more time. Just checking.
your not invited to the metaphor club.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
RyanFeb 18, 2011
Your point was that piracy is illegal? Thanks for pointing that out to me, slugger. Did you get that wasn't the part of your comment that I was responding to? Read slowly.. ;)
I'll elaborate:
Many radio stations and the "industry" that is big record labels buying air time doesn't allow people discover s**t. It allows people to be spoon fed crap that appeals to the largest audience. Radio is high fructose for your ears and the commercials will clog your mind with jingles and catchy phrases. (Another metaphor!)
Since small record labels are dying because of piracy (not because of their business model, their ownership, the artists on their label, or, did I mention their business model?) isn't true either. The majority of people who use public torrent trackers are simple people who don't take their music very seriously. They aren't interested in quality or "the scene." They just want to listen to Katy Perry or Limp Bizkit or whatever it is they listen to these days on their iPhone. LimeWire, (old)Napster, WinMX, etc, etc were all used mostly by noobs. To address your "challenge" the music "industry" isn't running out of money. What you're talking about is making indie labels a viable business venture - which means "profitable." You also seem to have missed the part where these mainstream record labels f**k their smaller artists, sometimes writing them into contracts that virtually snuff out any future in music. The smaller record labels are fine. Like any small business they come and go, and the ones that have sustainable business models survive and go on to release more music. Which brings me to my next point; do you have any f**king idea what you're talking about?
http://torrentfreak.com/record-label-teams-up-with-whatcd-bittorrent-tracker-081230/
travelsonicFeb 19, 2011
"You miss my point.
Piracy is Illegal. Did you get that one? "
Obviously you missed THE point, since piracy being illegal or not is not the issue.
Reading comprehension. IT WORKS!
notmanFeb 17, 2011
Wait, so you said you pirate because you can't afford the music, yet you also say, if you like the album, you may go buy it. On top of that, you MAY go see them live. With what money?
But, since you're unemployed, and you obviously need food too, maybe you should go to the grocery store and just grab some food for free.
caramba421Feb 17, 2011
The day the grocery store has a replicator in the back room that reproduces the food at zero cost, that's exactly what I'm going to do.
notmanFeb 17, 2011
They do, it's called a tree. So go down there and grab yourself some apples
caramba421Feb 17, 2011
Trees require money to replicate. Data does not.
geezorFeb 17, 2011
@caramba, air, sunlight, and the rain are all free (for now). Wait until carbon credits version 2.0 comes out and you get taxed for using air and sunlight. Or for Monsanto's plants to pollinate yours and they sue you for copyright infringement. Oops, I mean stealing.
macharborguyFeb 18, 2011
@geezor: ITM
rotundoFeb 18, 2011
Zero cost. Heh. Spoken like someone who's never produced anything of value in their life.
rjoplingFeb 18, 2011
and you have?
travelsonicFeb 18, 2011
Spoken like somebody who can't rebuke a point worth a f**k.
First, define value. Your definition while similar to others isn't the same. Second, noting that copying bits is not as costly, 0 monetary cost compared to reproducing physical goods, says jack s**t about what you can, can't, have, or haven't done, dips**t.
travelsonicFeb 18, 2011
"Spoken like someone who's never produced anything of value in their life."
Spoken like an idiot.
The difference in cost between the reproduction physical goods vs digital bits, bytes, words, dwords, qwords of data is obvious.
brian1625Feb 18, 2011
The Federal Reserve Replicates money, take some of that.
babywookieFeb 18, 2011
DVDs? People still get those? LOL!
jedi1196Feb 17, 2011
Ironically, this site linked to a Boxee review that included remarks about Netflix. Stuff doesn't have to be free. I just has to be better than the Pirate Bay. It has to be easy and convenient and available.
Since the younger generation is much more comfortable with the likes of BT, it's really important that stuff is simply available.
Stuff like iTunes proves that cost is a secondary factor. Although you still have to compete with the likes of Netflix and bargain DVDs even if your fairy godmother could stop all piracy tomorrow.
vohkFeb 17, 2011
On that note, I'll bet credit cards have a lot to do with it. Nearly all the services that have any hope of competing with 'free' are online and require a CC to use. Nearly everyone I know discovered piracy in high school when getting anything online required bugging Mom, irrelevant of whether it was your own earned money. Pretty hard for a service to become convenient when it involves begging.
lookitsatravisFeb 17, 2011
I absolutely agree with this. I used to pirate movies and TV shows all day long before Netflix came around. The same with music before Grooveshark came about. I'm actually happy to pay a licensing fee to artists for the rights to listen/view their work. It's just that many corporations make it so damned hard or inconvenient that people resort to torrenting in order to cut through red tape. Yes, there are probably lots of folks who pirate just to get things for free, but there are also a lot of people like me who do/did it because there isn't nearly as much bulls**t to wade through in order to get to the product.
Some people will always steal things. Society, I think, will never get past that. Companies need to realize that punishing the paying people in order to deter the pirating people will never, ever net the result that they expect.
Ditch DRM (or package it nicely with the previously mentioned services) and you'll find a ton of people willing to pay for content.
1211wrangerFeb 17, 2011
I like your style but I look at it as more, if I like what I hear, I'll go out and spend the money on a legit hard copy. Not a big fan of digital only downloads and iTunes has screwed me over a couple times, losing songs I payed for. I have no qualms about helping support artists.
caramba421Feb 17, 2011
When I bought a PS3, I was all amped about getting Netflix. The convenience of it was worth the cost. But guess what? Not available in the country I live in.
Straight back to TPB for me.
Closed AccountFeb 17, 2011
if you make it into a forbidden fruit and tell everyone not to do it, they are going to do it!
this is why the aftermath of drug decriminalization in portugal results in less drug use across the board.
tell someone not to do something and they are gonna say f**k YOU! i can do what i want and ill show you, bitch!
honestly, im not too sure about anyone else but all the software i have downloaded for free, i wasnt going to buy in the first place. the companies lost no money at all.
maybe if software didnt cost as much, more people would buy it. once you do the R&D, replicating software is extremely cheap. instead of making a piece of software $200, make it $50 and you will find about 10 times (my estimate, and it seems very fair) more people will buy your product because it is in their price range now. this makes the company more money vs. selling very few for more money.
anyways... i say if the person is good enough with computers to be able to do this s**t, its not always as easy as download and install, then they should have it.
you are not stealing anything when downloading a copied file. remember that
vohkFeb 17, 2011
"The study asked some 202 self-described pirates about their behavior and the reasons for it."
A sample of people who self identify as pirates admit to attitudes favouring piracy? DEAR GOD. That's like asking why people still rob banks and shoplift. The average pirate will never be morphed into a regular paying consumer. If the major content providers keep basing their policies on trying to convert the subset of people who will never pay, they're only going to keep on alienating their actual customers.
For pretty much the first time in human history, you no longer need a factory and shipping company to reproduce and distribute content. Combine that with several industries that seem to think customers are a self-renewing resource, and what a surprise some people are taking advantage.
bubbaandy89Feb 17, 2011
I personally agree with the Hulu model. It's a great source. As the world begins transitioning to more internet-based media, more and more people are going to look for the cheapest (or most free) solution to get their daily entertainment. Places like Hulu and Netflix seem to have a pretty good hold on a great idea for the future of media.
ren1999Feb 17, 2011
Arr!
ctraiderthe1stFeb 17, 2011
There is a way to stop a segment of those that pirate.
Those that wish to make money from their content should make it available at any time, in any format the consumer wants (and don't rake them over the coals with the cost). And no DRM. Why no DRM you may ask. Just ask those that bought music through Musicmatch or any other software that is now defunct with the servers turned off. THAT music was PAID for like they wanted but the consumer got screwed.
cabo82Feb 17, 2011
I like Hulu get to watch videos without having to download them or brows all the channels in cable. Netflix is goo in terms of price compared to Blockbuster but the downside is that they dont get recent movie titles, their "new titles" can be old movies to somewhat "recent movies" I want to see recent movies even if i rent them for a small fee but paying to see old movies or movies that i can see on regular channels doesnt work for me.
centraltransFeb 17, 2011
if they are self admitted pirates, I doubt any of them would be willing to pay even if it was a small amount
augmentFeb 17, 2011
Maybe everything should be free. But then the expectation on the production value shouldn't be any more then zero cost.
sonstoneFeb 17, 2011
NO, not everyone does it.
watchdragonFeb 17, 2011
dont copy that floppy
wolfdogFeb 18, 2011
I can't anymore cause I don't own a floppy drive.
justice700Feb 17, 2011
i hate how just because people do pirate they think it is just to get everything for free, just because you can kill someone or can steal something doesnt make it rightComment is buried, click here to see the rest.
rubiksphereFeb 17, 2011
If everything is free, who will pay for the content to be produced? I know that isn't the main point of the story, but the logic behind that headline bugs me way too much. I pirate, but convenience is the main issue for being. Now that I have Netflix, I'm so busy watching movies and TV shows that I've overlooked I don't feel it necessary to keep pirating the way I used to. If DVR came standard with digital cable I'd probably stop all together (save for a few foreign flicks that are hard to come by).
travelsonicFeb 19, 2011
"If everything is free, who will pay for the content to be produced? "
Of course, just for the sake of arguing, no profit motive =/= no creative content.
brettdcFeb 17, 2011
For people who pirate all their music, movies and Television shows, does this belief that everything should be free extend to other parts of their lives. Do they expect to walk into a department store, a super market, a car yard or a restaurant and receive their goods and services for free? OR is is just digital content that they are not willing to pay for?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
grammerpantsFeb 18, 2011
I don't have expectations of things being free, I just have the option to do so, with no repercussions. So I do it.
brettdcFeb 18, 2011
But does that idea/ attitude extend to the physical world. If you found yourself in a house, workplace, shop etc where you would be able to take what you wanted with no repurcussions would you?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
grammerpantsFeb 18, 2011
No, it doesn't extend to the physical world, at least not for me.
brettdcFeb 18, 2011
Thanks for the honest answer. One last question and i'll call it quits. Do you perceive for example a digital version of a movie to have no value compared to a physical retail version of the same movie?
grammerpantsFeb 18, 2011
Don't think about it, it's available it's sometimes easier to get then the pay for content, and it has no hassles (read no DRM).
Stealing physical media has major consequences, digital has none.
tamarawilhiteFeb 17, 2011
And why should everyone else work so you can have it for free?
brian1625Feb 18, 2011
Because they show me an ad for a product I can't afford. ;)
warpfieldFeb 18, 2011
We could turn it around. Have a genetic algorithm produce the music, and the listeners help evolve it towards a cool tune.
avangionqFeb 18, 2011
The correct way to combat piracy is to offer a low rate monthly subscription plan for full access to fast downloading from your entire collection of movies and TV series, including streaming video and DRM free video files. Also for paid subscribers, make sure that the pay part of your site is ads free, except for targeted merchandising specific to the movie or TV series that's currently being watched. Its the only way to counter piracy, as what is otherwise a free alternative.
macharborguyFeb 18, 2011
So let me get this straight. Monthly subscription, full fast downloads DRM free...
Sounds like a pirates dream source of videos. If they are DRM free, how do you "not" have access to the downloads after the subscription ends? What would stop the users from posting the videos to piracy websites?
There is NO way to combat piracy, only coexist with it.
travelsonicFeb 19, 2011
"What would stop the users from posting the videos to piracy websites?"
Nothing that would stop them with DRM either. :P
frostedflamezFeb 18, 2011
Do what you want cuz a pirate is free you are a pirate!..
As long as there is networking of any kind there will be file sharing as long as that exist's there will be piracy the war on drugs and piracy just needs to end its a war that will never end.
They will never win and we will never go away
GG
ArbitorofTruthFeb 18, 2011
Listen ALL! Be forewarned this comment is going to get into some wildly different areas. I don't even know where this is going yet. There are some valid points to both sides of this argument. I personally used to pirate music during the Napster times (which I actually lost all of in a computer crash) when CD's were still $15 or more and there was no way to explore music in mass quantity like the options of today. I don't pirate music anymore simply because I do think $1 or so a song is fair to me (and I make more money) and I do want to contribute to the artists I support (such as Bruce Springsteen because he is not an overproduced undertalented, overexploited crap dog...ahm Nickelback). Do I think piracy is wrong, the law may say so but where was a law against mega-corporate greed (WHICH IT WAS/IS [greed]) for overpriced goods and possible price fixing among the major media distributors from oh say 70 years? Funny how that works in that the media can have copyrighted material which has legal teeth but consumers basically have minimal rights in the process and yes I know they don't have to buy it, so shutup and that's not what I'm talking about here. Let's suppose starting from day 1 major media companies priced movies and music at a reasonable level. In modern terms let's say $5 for a movie and $5 for album from an artist. Would Napster have been created? Would pirating be an issue? As an economist one could say that pirating is a natural adjustment to a market in an attempt to bring supply/demand price point to a more accurate level and nix the ridiculously high margin that has been forced by the media companies for decades. Again I don't pirate movies but nor do I really think that Bruce Willis deserves $50mil for nearly movie that is getting worse as he gets older. Francis Ford Coppola seems to get it but media companies are in it for their livelihood. Oddly Apple figured this out with music and made it work of course to the dissatisfaction to the media corps which is a different topic. Here's another analogy for the late bloomers out there. You know those cash loan places that charge some ridiculous amount of interest for short term loans that really are the epitome of greed, well same concept applies to the media in that repulsively high margins relative to other sources of the same commodity or good are only naturally going to correct itself one way or another. So my thing is why are those who don't pirate judging those who do? In the end it is most likely going to make your content cheaper a la music. As for the law? Really, you think the law is the best judgement to use? Really....really? Just google two words: police beating and then rethink your position for 10 minutes. 10 whole minutes, and don't just watch the videos in conjuction with the porn your watching but just watch the videos. And seriously people think about your answers before commenting you just make American's look freaking dumb...Step up your game!Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
hahagamesFeb 18, 2011
Sorry but just as much as you want to convince yourself
hahagamesFeb 18, 2011
It's not stealing. It's copyright infringement.
grahagFeb 18, 2011
In the end, you're taking/using/copying/viewing something that you didn't pay for. Unless the legal publisher/author/distributor didn't put it out there for free, then you're stealing. You can whitewash it all you want, but it's still dishonest.
With that said, I still pirate some things. If I can't find them, or they're out of print I'll copy them. When I was a kid I pirated everything and didn't really think twice because I had no idea what I was doing. Once I realized the ethical problems I pretty much stopped pirating.
If the people who make content made it easy, inexpensive, and trouble-free to get their content, more people will pay for it than will steal it. When you start gouging your customers or try to monetize EVERYTHING you do, people will see less value in that and they'll go towards a free alternative, such as piracy.
I currently think that content is too expensive. Valve has played with the developers on changing prices on items they have and when they lowered the price 75%, they received over 1000% increases in sales on some items. The less the lowered the price, the less extreme the sales, but they were always increased by the lower prices.
I totalled up all my purchases over Steam a few weeks ago and I have just short of $5000 invested into the software I've bought. Steam is a good model of how to do it right.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
ophelloFeb 18, 2011
Or alternatively, people should be able to be artists without having to make a living off it. Music and creativity shouldn't have to be sold. We shouldn't even have a monetary system.
travelsonicFeb 19, 2011
"n the end, you're taking/using/copying/viewing something that you didn't pay for."
In the end, I did the same with GIMP, Adobe Reader, OpenOffice, and it was perfectly legal.
Your criteria is intellectually dishonest.
grahagFeb 19, 2011
You're quoting me and then telling ME I'm intellectually dishonest? How about finishing off that quote friend... "Unless the legal publisher/author/distributor didn't put it out there for free, then you're stealing. You can whitewash it all you want, but it's still dishonest."
There ya go. You're being disingenuous. Care to defend your statement now? Cherry picking comments is for the weak-minded, and trolling is for the weak-willed.
santiakFeb 18, 2011
FTRIA
Closed AccountFeb 18, 2011
*shrug* It's not about stuff being free for me, anyway. I pay for a Netflix subscription, and yet I still occasionally pirate movies when I'm unwilling to wait two days for the DVD to be mailed to my home. If it was about getting stuff for free, I'd cancel my Netflix subscription - I pay the same either way. It's really just about the convenience.
I mean, on the flip side of the coin, I don't really pirate computer games because I can easily purchase them through Steam. In that case, legally purchasing the games is actually more convenient.
compgeekFeb 18, 2011
With all the push towards non physical media. ie Steam and other such digital distribution ilk I can see why people pirate. Hell I'll admit I do it myself. normally to see if a game or progam I'll be using will run smoothly on my laptop (2008 Dell XPS M1530). Lots of games and other such programs I'm finding don't have realistic requirements on the packaging so even if you have beyond the recommended specs it still runs like dog s**t. Why would I pay $50+ and risk it running like ass? Rather pirate first and see if it'll even work. If it doesn't than it's not really a lost sale as I wouldn't have bought it anyways.
With that said fewer and fewer games and apps that are for sale are worth the money imho. Heck lately some of the best and most innovative addicting little games have been free. I recently picked up an android phone and Angry birds and games of it's ilk are great. Developers from the major game design houses take note. Angry birds simple little game with a basic premise but so damn addicting and engaging with the challenge in each and every level. Even FPS games which have historically been just kill everything run to end of level repeat could take advantage of this by simply making the user employ a little brain power perhaps make the level ending a puzzle of some sort or take a hint from Borderlands TONS of character customization with weapons specialties and such AND a good cohesive storyline. Those are what people will pay money for. Not some rehashed crap that basically same game different guns and really lame plot.
That is why I pirate and until things change I'll continue to do so. The games that I decide to actually buy have truly EARNED my hard worked for cash.
icefire2050Feb 18, 2011
I love Hulu. Use it all the time. I dont mind the adds in it though I wish they were better targeted sometimes.
But companies like fox and abc need to stop seeing their online views as competition for their TV viewing. If I go looking for a show to watch, I check Hulu first. If I find out Hulu is only airing the last 3 episodes of that series or that hulu only airs the episode a week after it's aired on TV then I resort to other methods like sidereel.
I like the show. I'm going to watch the show. If you want to provide me easy access to the show in exchange for showing ads so you can collect ad revenue, sure, I can live with that. If you don't want to provide the option for it then I'll find it myself and then it wont have ad's and you wont make a dime.
Television is becoming out dated in the way it brings information to you. The internet has altered the way the human brain thinks and has allowed us to obtain any information we want when we want it. As opposed to the 1 episode of a TV show we want to watch that we have to wait a year to see on TV again or buy a whole season on dvd to watch that 1 episode.
So show the episodes of TV shows online. Air them on TV first if you want to. But no more than 12-24 hours delay before it appears online. Show ads online. Collect your ad revenue. Use the traffic on your online episodes to help make your network better by knowing what time which shows are being watched. See which episodes are being watched the most and put them up in rotation more around that time slot on the network.
Or you can view me as a thief. I can laugh at that. And I can go watch the episodes for free on another website.
jsp317Feb 18, 2011
Intellectual property is what the porn industry call's it. I can walk out side and see two dogs do it. It's leagal prostitution.
mwpdx85Feb 18, 2011
Ladies and Gentleman let's not s**t ourselves, downloading copyrighted works is stealing from the content producers and DRM is a major pain in the ass.
I believe that the majority of us who use P2P are willing to pay for content however "old media" has a business model that they refuse to adapt for the digital age.
Content consumers want their content available in the manner they choose, on the device they choose and when they choose. The content companies in their misguided attempts to protect their works punish the honest consumer who purchases their work and then feels frustrated in their limited use of it. Those of us who are tech savvy are very able and usually willing to get around the paper tiger that is DRM.
Until content companies recognize that their old business model is unsustainable and begin to offer (SHOCK!) what the consumers of their content want then piracy will continue.
I feel no need to sustain their outdated business model.
travelsonicFeb 18, 2011
let's not s**t ourselves, downloading copyrighted works is stealing from the content producers..."
The only piece I disagree with.
Youy aren't taking anything. Therefore it isn't stealing, its something new.
Potential revenue is potential - you don't have it, and are not gaurenteed to get it, so saying you factually lost it - IMO - makes 0 sense since you are "losing" something you never had to begin with.
themortician4Feb 18, 2011
Piracy has been around since the 8086, can't stop it, and never will
Haz0Feb 18, 2011
Sharing is caring
cockyjeremyFeb 18, 2011
I pirate movies, music, software and it doesn't hurt anyone. Want proof? If i didn't obtain it for free, i wouldn't buy it anyway. So no one is really losing anything.
jamescaffareleFeb 18, 2011
athough piracy is wrong i still feel you should be able to try before you buy particually with fully functional apps you wouldnt buy a car without trying it out first .......then support the devolper by parting with your cash usually pence/cents and prasing for the good work if it becomes of use to you :) .....P.s totally disagree with DRM and glad itunes got rid of it :)
roguegeniusFeb 18, 2011
Laws change. Once it was immoral to give or take interest. You were the lowest form of life for doing that. Today, everyone has an interest bearing savings account.
Society has changed. David Geffen and Russel Simmons are WAY overpaid. The cultural mores are changing. Laws will follow. We've ALWAYS had libraries. Is that an infringement on the copyrights of authors?
MANLEEMANFeb 18, 2011
Its just ones and zeros and you can't steal ones and zeros okay! No one makes ones and zeros its not like a f**king lamp or a chair its not made from physical things or by real people. Ones and zeros are happening right now is that stealing?
cwickFeb 18, 2011
good Lord....!!!
bottom line is this...EVERyONE does it! and if you say you don't or NEVER have once, then you are a liar....period.
people can't be blamed for using the latest (man-made) technology to their FULL benefit (& btw-the people that are getting their stuff downloaded are getting a ton of free publicity which you just cant put a price tag on!).
BTW ~ i forget who said this-incorrectly i might add-but yes, artists and companies CAN sell/deal directly to us, the consumer. bands and esp artists that make their own clothes, jewelry, etc do it all the time!
ever heard of paypal or google checkout??!!
to be fair-if someone has 10 million terrabytes of illegally downloaded stuff, then ok, he deserves what he gets...but for the rest of us? please....shutup!
bijaFeb 18, 2011
I wanted to buy Disney's Dr. Syn The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh, but they had sold out of their limited number of the DVDs. There are some people selling them on eBay and Amazon at too high a price, but I happened to find an AVI I could download from Rapidshare. So I was able to watch the movie. I am still willing to buy it from Disney on DVD, but not for a ridiculous price.
mobyzipperFeb 18, 2011
wow, your pissed. you must have just stepped on a tack.
Neosporin will heal that right up. make sure it is legally bought though.
xgmrFeb 18, 2011
The fact is, people are tired of paying too much. While big record companies are making huge profit, artists and ordinary people are forced to pay the price. Very few artists make it because this whole system is screwed up.
Today it's easy to deliver digital content and if you make it cheap enough most people wouldn't go trough the hassle and risk of downloading illegal content.
The way it works it's bad for artists, it's bad for users and it's a lot of profit for very few.
paullantowFeb 19, 2011
I've been over many Piracy forums. In a few specific instances, pirating is okay. But most of the time, pirates are people who are too cheap to actually pay for something and instead nab it off of the pirate bay (Or they just search for through Google). I could go outside, panhandle for an hour, and have enough cash to buy a music album on iTunes that I'd own forever (Yes, forever. With 300 million iPods sold, Apple isn't about to delete everybody's iTunes account and make them buy their songs again). Every thief, scallywag, and vagabound thinks what they are doing is justifiable. Pirates are no different. They paint pictures of evil corporations that not only want to force their customers to pay for the stuff that they own, but also stamp out free speech. With that rhetoric, pirates aren't lazy cheapasses, but noble crusaders. Frankly, it's wrong. Netflix offers movie rentals for cheap. If you want subscriptions, buy the songs from the Zune store (Even if it means jailbreaking your iPhone. Jailbreaking is fine, because you OWN the device). Hulu offers most TV for free, and it a DVR allows you to watch the rest for a fairly reasonable price. Back in the early 2000's, things were different, and piracy was occasionally justifiable. But that day has passed, and digital media is cheap and easily accessible. So stop whining and actually pay for something for once.
travelsonicFeb 19, 2011
"But most of the time, pirates are people who are too cheap to actually pay for something and instead nab it off of the pirate bay ("
Gross generalization. A lot of the people know have not even a thought about this, they see "oh, free music/movies/whatever" and go on that without thinking about anything else. And most pirates I know who know what they're doing actually DO purchase more.
Why don't you learn what whining is, learn how to properly categorize people/habits, and bug off. Pompous ass.
11hrrestMar 7, 2011
Times are changing. Bands should just put a "donate" button on their websites and bypass labels completely; get 100% of their money. Same thing with actors/movie directors/entertainers/etc.