Users who Dugg This
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Betty98Jan 4, 2011
Ah that seems like BS.
mikedehaanJan 5, 2011
Amazing and scary, even for us dumb-cell-phone people with nothing to hide.
mikedehaanJan 5, 2011
Amazing and scary, even for us dumb-cell-phone people with nothing to hide.
davidtcJan 5, 2011
You need to have a smart phone to send and receive texts?
nodespikeJan 5, 2011
Welcome to the Third Reich!!!
ecoreJan 5, 2011
Yes...don't ever bother going to that s**t-hole of a country anymore.
thecadillacmanJan 5, 2011
From the Article: "Password-protection of smart phones might be a useful tool to ward off a warrantless search -- it's not clear that an arrested suspect could be compelled to divulge his or her password to police -- but that legal argument has not yet been made."
I know that there is a precedent set for not having to give up a password to a computer under the fifth amendment (to not incriminate yourself) BUT: I also thought we had a pretty good precedent against unreasonable search and seizure under the fourth, and it appears I was wrong there.
robbobJan 5, 2011
You have the right to remain silent
rhawk187Jan 5, 2011
The first parallel that comes to mind is, if you get arrested, and have your wallet on you, are they allowed to look through it? If so, then I think a cell-phone is fair game too.
leogodin217Jan 5, 2011
Your phone could potentially contain much more information than your pockets. For instance, maybe it allows access to your bank account and investment portfolio. Should police have access to that even though you've not been convicted of a crime nor do they have any reasonable cause to suspect the phone contains any incriminating evidence?
nerysJan 6, 2011
the result of this is "arrest someone" your interested in with NO ground and NO valid cause.
search their electronics (laptop etc..) and then later drop the charges or drum up some disorderly or resisting orders charge
you got your data. no pesky warrant.
if you think whats in your WALLET is the same thing comparably to what could be a phone or computer your a ludite with no CLUE as to what this technology means.
the amount of "data" I keep in my smart phone is larger in volume than ALL THE DATA a person 100 year ago could carry on their person in shopping bags.
if they are allowed access to anything in your laptop you might as well say they may search you files at home the e-mail on your server or your filing cabinet at work since all of these things are potentially "connectible" to your phone or hell IN your phone.
because of the SCOPE of what these devices can do and contain they ARE protected the court is just not RECOGNIZING that protection.
for example if you read the article you would know if your carrying a briefcase when your arrested besides a cursory check for weapons they are NOT permitted to "search" your briefcase without cause or a warrant.
why? its simple that case contains a lot more than the cause a simple arrest would normally allow police to access so its OFF LIMITS without a valid warrant.
your electronics are the same thing.
ajajadudeJan 5, 2011
I'm with rhawk on this one. I can see how going through text messages on a cell phone isn't any different than going through the pockets of someone who's just been arrested.
Would a text message be any different than a piece of paper in a pocket with the same info on it?Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
lopsidedmidgetJan 5, 2011
A text message is no different than a piece of paper. Yet, iPhones, etc. Keep track of every single text message that has been sent for as long as you had the phone. Prior to this law being passed, police officers were required to obtain a warrant to see that much information. Also, any text that is sent is looked at without a warrant is also violating the rights of the person that had sent, or received that text ie someone that did nothing to be arrested and is having their privacy violated.
nerysJan 6, 2011
this is NOT like looking at a piece of paper with a note on it.
this is like accessing and looking at EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF PAPER YOU EVER HELD IN YOUR HANDS OR LOOKED AT WITH YOUR EYES IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE WITH NOTES ON IT.
ie my phone has every text I have sent and received in the last 6+ years on it. My e-mail account has every message I have every received and kept in the last 11+ years.
hipmanJan 5, 2011
Um...if there's already enough evidence to arrest you then search is a given isn't it?.
smotpokerJan 5, 2011
Search of physical property, sure. However search of private communiques? I don't think it is legal (or it shouldn't be, rather). If you get arrested for an unpaid ticket, the police shouldn't be able to open your mail, read your diary, note/record everyone you keep in contact with, search your home, etc.
What constitutes "unreasonable" under the fourth amendment is anything that isn't a direct safety threat and anything that doesn't appear directly related to the crime you're accused of.
kgermJan 5, 2011
its going to the Supreme Court where i am will to bet it will be over turned
davidtcJan 5, 2011
A phone is physical property though...
The guy was arrested for making a drug deal over his cell phone. Sounds like they did search something that was directly related to the crime he was accused of.
nerysJan 6, 2011
phone yes. so remove the battery check for anything hidden. we are not talking about physical property. we are talking about the ELECTRONICALLY ACCESSIBLE on and off the phone contents that that phone has access to.
so if your TALKING to work or your wife when your arrested your ELECTRONICALLY connected to your work or your wife so they don't need a warrant to go search those places? that is ESSENTIALLY what they are doing when they access the MEMORY of the device.
ajajadudeJan 5, 2011
If someone was being arrested for, say, mail fraud, then one would expect the police to be looking through mail. The key term in all of this is "reasonable" searches.
Wouldn't the police go through a notebook or scraps of paper you have on you if you were arrested? Are cell phones really that different from paper items (not in the physical sense, but they serve the same purpose in many cases). As we put more and more of our lives into electronic form, it's hard to say electronics are completely off limits.
Obviously this issue won't stop here.
fattestfootJan 5, 2011
In your scenario, they'd be required to get a warrant.
ajajadudeJan 5, 2011
You're right. Cough medicine and Jack Daniels was not doing me good last night.
ecoreJan 5, 2011
Time to engage my encryption self-destroy app.
Closed AccountJan 5, 2011
no phones in california!!!
youareretardedJan 5, 2011
How about just not getting arrested or committing crimes?
nerysJan 6, 2011
easy to say as they fabricate more and more crimes to fund their ever growing operations.
easy to say if your a convenient target of opportunity where the police don't want YOU but want information you have access to.
imoverJan 5, 2011
There is an app for that! It will protect your cell phone in case of illegal search and seizure
royalecraigJan 5, 2011
And it's only going to get worse,
Welcome to 1984
http://harveyalexander.tk
enantiodromiaJan 5, 2011
"The sky is falling!"
Welcome to Chicken Little.
rhawk187Jan 5, 2011
If you get arrested are officers allowed to look through the contents of say, your purse/wallet? If so, then I think the extension to looking through one's cell phone is pretty clear. I'd say the reverse is true also, if they aren't supposed to look through your personal belongings that happen to be in your possession at the time.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
pimpofpixelsJan 5, 2011
Right, but your phone isn't a phone anymore. It's a mobile communications hub.
If a cop arrests you, finds you wallet, sees your address, should he be allowed to search your house? No. Therefore, if a cop arrests you, should he be able to go through a history of your conversations, emails, and text messages. I say no... he should not.
ajajadudeJan 5, 2011
That's a little different. I can hide a mini pot farm, dead bodies, bags of money I stole from a bank, etc but I can't hide anything more than electronic correspondences (I'm buzzed and on cold medication, not sure if that word makes sense) and information in my phone.
If it's something you wouldn't want a cop, or your mother, to see then you should either password protect your phone/items in your phone or not store them in your phone.
Closed AccountJan 5, 2011
Police are not allowed to open postal packages. Only a post master general or US Marshal can open postal packages. Many truckers know this and use it to their advantage to hide a second log book. Best to keep an envelope in the glove box big enough to slip a cell phone or a lap top into. Address the package and keep sufficient postage (stamps) on it. If you get pulled over, put your cell phone and or laptop in the package and seal it. Tell the cops its a present for your grandma. They may seize the package but will have to jump through some legal hoops to open it giving you and hopefully your lawyer enough time to fight. Password protect all your electronics.
davidtcJan 5, 2011
Priority mail. If it fits, it ships!
ajajadudeJan 5, 2011
It's not a good idea to be moving around a lot, reaching into glove boxes, etc after being pulled over. Well, that is if you mind having an extremely nervous/suspicious cop thinking you're a threat to his/her life.
If you're getting pulled over for something routine, it's not worth the added time of having the cops rip apart your car looking for something you might have been trying to hide. Especially if you're being overtly paranoid.
agmlauncherJan 5, 2011
Very true. Proper etiquette when getting pulled over is this:
1. Shut your car off.
2. Turn off any music you're listening to.
3. Remove a hood if you're wearing it.
4. Roll down your window either fully or partially.
5. Place both hands on top of your steering wheel so the cop can see them as he approaches the vehicle.
6. Only open your glove box and reach for your wallet if he asks you to do so.
7. When you do reach for your wallet/glove box, tell the officer that you're about to, and do it relatively slowly and give him the opportunity to follow your hands.
8. If you're a minority, hope to god he's not a racist, and definitely don't accuse him of such even if you feel you are being discriminated against. It sucks having to bend over like that, but giving the cop ammunition won't help you. Resolve it in court if you have to. There is ZERO point in arguing with a cop.
9. Be professional and courteous unless you want a ticket.
cosinezeroJan 5, 2011
Also - turn on the interior lights, and be polite.
nerysJan 6, 2011
this is good advice in a bad neighborhood or if you have done something wrong.
otherwise its be only as cooperative as the law says you must and only as polite as he is and refuse ANYTHING not required of you.
if you have a tape recorder (or digital) turn it on upside down so he does not see the red light if you don't GET ONE.
as for the mail package idea thats a good ideal. it would be easy enough to keep the priority mail box between the seats open. it would take a few seconds and VERY little hand movement to slip the phone in peel the sticky and close it without raising suspicion.
if he asks tell the truth you were lifting the emergency brake (works in my car) and just omit mentioning the package action.
dustincaseJan 5, 2011
lol, everybody knows police are gonna search through your s**t... But to call it legal?
tetvondJan 5, 2011
This is not right!
conarkJan 5, 2011
looks like the only real benefit of living in California anymore is the weather. and i think even that is overrated.
DavidDeanMauroJan 5, 2011
THIS is just Way wrong! I was a prosecutor and trial lawyer for years and this IS too Much.
tleehorneiiiJan 5, 2011
People in the remaining 49 states, be on guard against the spread of this insidious trend.
lostinseganetJan 5, 2011
Unbelievable. They just don't give a damn for the constitution.
lostinseganetJan 5, 2011
Unbelievable. They just don't give a damn for the constitution.
shafiqissaniJan 5, 2011
It was made clear to us by our friendly hackers (sarcasm intended) that security is an illusion, now the law has made it clear that privacy is an illusion.
bubblerJan 5, 2011
Personal privacy continues to shrink.
abdulnJan 6, 2011
Why are you surprised. This is the same state that is collecting DNA from anybody arrested, regardless of their guilt. If you are not guilty, you must petition the state to remove your DNA from the databank, and even then they have no mandate to do so. I'm so moving out of this state.
celldweller1591Jan 6, 2011
awesome news :)
thudwhomperJan 6, 2011
just keep a dummy cell phone with you that's empty with maybe some dummy contacts and real-enough looking info in it. just show them that if they want to get nosy. what's so hard about that?
/still pretty messed up that we even have to think of these types of solutions in a "free" society.
computersci87Jan 6, 2011
This is surely a sad day for technology. This violate the essential elements of the fourth amendment and is a complete violation of what the computer science fields of interest should be treated as...