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milsorgnJul 23, 2010
I'd rather have a slow ISP than live in a country that allows such vapid non existent work be allowed, let alone so richly rewarded.
But hey that almighty dollar!
apocadallJul 24, 2010
I'd rather live in country that has grown out of the need for currency.
digg2point0Jul 24, 2010
Unless everyone gives everything for free, that will never happen.
Even in a barter system where no money changes hands there is an idea of currency which you value your trade-ables against.
nyxerebosJul 24, 2010
One quarter cow.. I'll buy that for a chicken!
tgc1Jul 24, 2010
Yeah, but unlike our system, you can't just magically print more chickens to devalue the price of your Cow in the Barter System. Which is why the Barter system (trading tangible assets for tangible assets) is always the better option. But you'll never hear an economist utter that. When you can use intangible "assets" to purchase tangible assets, you will always have a problem.
pillar007Jul 24, 2010
The barter system requires a dual coincidence of wants - that is one of its major drawbacks.
For example, let's say I want to trade a chicken for a large block of delicious cheese. I have to go out and find someone that has a large block of cheese and would like a chicken. Sure, we can trade between multiple people to eventually arrive to the cheese, but this becomes very inefficient.
dennycraineJul 24, 2010
resource based economy ftw
apocadallJul 24, 2010
I was meaning a system where everyone works towards the good of the group versus the good of the individual. Collectivism if you will.
ohnoes1000Jul 25, 2010
We had a period without currency..and that period is over for a reason: it doesn't work. A barter system is a horrible replacement for a fiat currency; it does not store value as well, it is less portable and it is not an effective means of exchange, especially if there are few local markets.
As for collectivism, it sounds like an idea that can't fail, i mean look at the soviet union, oh wait..
apocadallJul 25, 2010
True collectivism isn't obtainable with humans the way we are now.
ohnoes1000Jul 25, 2010
We don't need to obtain "true" collectivism. Instead, we should strive for a system that draws from both capitalism and communism and find a balance that provides enough incentive to encourage individuals to engage in business ventures without the fear of the government confiscating a prohibitively large portion of the proceeds, while at the same time, proving a safety net for the most impoverished among us.
apocadallJul 25, 2010
I mean no government at all, humans all acting as one for the good of society.
craftyguyJul 24, 2010
@milsorgn
Just because you don't understand it enough to play doesn't mean that other people should be prevented from playing..
catalysisJul 24, 2010
The whole point of high-frequency trading is that it doesn't require thought. Thinking takes time and the trades must be processed instantly.
The 20 people that lose are your average hard-working American investors without billions to spend on automated software and data centers.
jigorokanoJul 24, 2010
It's not about understanding the intricacies of the process, its about what kind of labor creates actual wealth.
murrdpirateJul 24, 2010
@catalysis
Of course it requires thought. You have to create the logic to tell the system what to buy, how much, under what conditions, etc.
culytJul 24, 2010
It might take a great deal of though, but it's through about what is basically an artificial system that is so far abstracted away from it's original purposes that it has almost no relation.
I wonder if the economy itself will become turning complete one day...
ohnoes1000Jul 25, 2010
Also, anyone who owns money in a mutual fund will benefit from more effective and efficient market participants. Just because you don't understand it or are unable to profit from it is no reason to bash or insult the system. As for the whole " it doesn't add value to society argument", one could say that about a myriad of other things that we all enjoy..
craftyguyJul 25, 2010
@ohnoes1000
Exactly. Thank you.
tigerstar337Jul 24, 2010
Canada. Yeah, baby!
Closed AccountJul 24, 2010
move.
bewareofthecowJul 24, 2010
Hurray for high frequency trading!
And @craftyguy who thinks it's perfectly OK for people to produce nothing, contribute nothing and profit from the real labour of others; shame on you.
High frequency trading is just another form of hidden taxation that goes directly into the pockets of the richest people on earth.
zbeastJul 25, 2010
There's nothing wrong with making a buck without bending over.
smacksawJul 24, 2010
Well, it used to be the demand for porn that drove technology, now I suppose it's greed.
digg2point0Jul 24, 2010
But greed is just the DEMAND for money!
kalvinbJul 24, 2010
You don't think the porn industry is all about greed?
mra45Jul 24, 2010
No no, you see, there's always been the greed for more porn.
stevec2287Jul 24, 2010
they'll f**k you out of all your money and get rich as hell contributing nothing to society and creating excessive market volatility by pushing real liquidity out of the marketplace, BUT YOU GET FASTER INTERNET!!!!!
digg2point0Jul 24, 2010
They've already done the first part, so where's my faster internet?
hagiasoJul 24, 2010
So which is it? Contributing nothing to society or contributing faster internet to society?
palehorse864Jul 24, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ACGbvkLzI4
murrdpirateJul 24, 2010
Actually they increase liquidity in the marketplace. The more trades there are, the easier it is sell stock, and therefore more liquid.
bewareofthecowJul 24, 2010
The only liquidity it produces is in the form of raw profits for the high frequency trader... You are essentially skimming the top of overvalued\undervalued shares. So yeah that liquidity is being REMOVED from the marketplace. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
murrdpirateJul 25, 2010
Liquidity has nothing to do with profits. Liquidity is simply how easily an asset can be converted to cash.
bewareofthecowJul 24, 2010
GREAT DEAL!!
zaeboesJul 24, 2010
This isn't necessarily faster through-put, but the advances could definitely lower ping.
suricouJul 24, 2010
The drive for low pings in finance is insane. The big debate right now is if it's worth moving to 100gig ethernet for it's lower ping, or sticking with 40gb or infiniband.
tgc1Jul 24, 2010
When you're trading several million dollars, the line you have is everything. Not that I do. But i'd imagine a higher latency could result in losing a hell of a lot of money. Which is why the big players have their data centers close to the exchange and can take advantage of changes and fluctuations before anyone else.
pault107Jul 24, 2010
tgc1, yeah, that's what the article said.
skeloothJul 24, 2010
I still think the practice of micro trading (or whatever the buzzword for it is these days) should be soundly illegal.
If you own a business and go public, and I give you one thousand dollars, then 5 minutes later sell it back for one thousand dollars and 5 cents, I've effectively made no positive contribution to that company. When you multiply this by a hundred thousand trades the numbers are bigger, but still contribute nothing... to anyone.
tgc1Jul 24, 2010
Oh they're contributing to someone alright. Themselves.
ohnoes1000Jul 25, 2010
this is not true at all. You're contributing by providing a market for the people who initially bought those shares. If it were otherwise, few business could go public because there would be less demand as the market would become less active and, as a result, less liquid. Also, if you were able to sell it for 5cents more, it means that something has changed to increase the valuation of the shares to warrant the increase in price.
As for the "no positive contribution" comment, you are equally wrong. The company, which has remaining shares that are authorized but not outstanding, can get more money if they are a secondary offering, the proceeds of which can go towards expansion or increases in staff...
skeloothJul 26, 2010
Stock in a company was never meant to be a liquid asset. You're investing in a company, not playing a slot machine.
suricouJul 24, 2010
"Still, Van Vliet maintains that high-frequency trading has a positive, stabilizing effect on the market because those algorithms make decisions without undue influence from the two human emotions he says consistently do the most harm to our financial system: fear and greed."
The algorithms have no fear or greed - but those who design them do. The purpose of a trading algorithm is to make the maximum possible amount of money for it's creators. It is composed of greed, expressed in the form of executable code.
topcat5Jul 24, 2010
This sort of thing is why the stock market has ceased being a way for the average person to invest in companies and now has become a casino for wall street. It's the reason there has been no net gain in stocks in 12 years.
hackwrenchJul 24, 2010
No. I'm fairly certain that market saturation and low inflation is part of the reason there has been no net gain in stocks in 12 years.
diggerlaterJul 24, 2010
Superfast trading, I have no problem with. It's LEADING trades that screw us all.
This line made me laugh:
"Some are now planning to design and burn their own integrated circuitry, rather than using off-the-shelf processors"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, yes, a wall street firm is very likely to eclipse Samsung and Intel in producing superfast processors this year. /s
javacodeguyJul 26, 2010
An off the rack processor is designed to be very versatile. It is good at doing everything. If you make your own circuitry it will be bad at most things but VERY good at a small set of computations.
laatuskaJul 24, 2010
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1259-High-Frequency-Trading-Is-A-Scam.html
satcomerJul 24, 2010
Great the people stuck in Comcrap County next door is going to start stealing bandwidth from my line this county from a much better ISP. Comcast is behind this, mark my words :)Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
mikosJul 24, 2010
"NASA invented velcro"?
WTF happened to George de Mestral?
hereticoftruthJul 24, 2010
You can play the stocks fast and you can play the stocks slow. But the best way to play the stocks is smart.
The small investor does have an edge over the large investor in that he can complete his move faster.
The large investor may have to take hours or days to buy and sell his stock which would largely influence his move in a negative way.
So the fast move largely benefits the smaller players.
We have a right to buy and sell our investments as we see fit.
There is no immorality in investing wisely.
But if we are engaged in misrepresentation in order to screw other people out of their money, then we ARE behaving in an immoral manner.
Investing slowly may not be the fastest way to make money, but it may be the most efficient way to invest your time.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
kkeith02Jul 25, 2010
High Frequency Trading is the cause of a lot of problems in the market. They run on algorithms, so when that big 900 point drop happened, it was because HFT's went in panic mode. Now, the firms running them will say that they provide much needed liquidity by trading more. However, when they all shut down because of the panic, what liquidity were they providing exactly?
Also, it doesn't seem quite fair that everyone on Wall St. tells the average American they should invest in the market to be able to retire. How are average Americans supposed to compete with corporations such as these? They don't trade on news or earnings reports like an efficient market should, they trade just to trade hoping (ie, gambling) that they'll make more money than lose money.
f**k it, who says we can't make a stock market where only a human being can trade?
allrightyJul 25, 2010
With our rogers broadband cap, its like having a Ferrari but you only have 1 mile of road.
shruti17Jun 29, 2011
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