Users who Dugg This
Belhassen Ben Smail
1172 Followers
Paul Sanchez
2659 Followers
InfographicWrld
2971 Followers
GUILLEBRAVO6
2377 Followers
Jeff Quipp
6315 Followers
Victor Barrera
11005 Followers
alaskalonewolfAug 14, 2010
...it's the difference between radio and television. If it were all open-source, imagine how much better it would run.
ivanmarshAug 15, 2010
I've been using open source for close to 15 years now... all the support I've ever needed is available on-line for free.
polarbearfireAug 15, 2010
I support open source, but if that's your idea of support, I'm glad open source is not more wide-spread.
ivanmarshAug 15, 2010
You have no idea what you're taking about.
enantiodromiaAug 15, 2010
That's a nice idea, but when you have your board of directors interviewing your replacement while you sit in your cube skimming Experts Exchange, it doesn't work out so well.
When you have millions of other peoples' money at stake, you need to get stuff fixed yesterday.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
dauntless1Aug 15, 2010
Employ competent techs. Or is that too complicated for a company "managing millions of peoples money?"
honoredmuleAug 15, 2010
Competent techs can't fix problems in unfamiliar software "yesterday." It's the classic "more developers actually slows down progress" problem--you don't need more talent, you need less turnover and a stable base of pre-existing talent. And, you need it before you ever even start using the software, unless you want the switch to look like a case study in sabotaging your own operations.
ivanmarshAug 15, 2010
If Experts Exchange is the best you've found I can understand why you think the support is so bad.
ivanmarshAug 15, 2010
Considering the Microsoft techs I've worked with and the quality of the support they deal with I'm not sure what you're talking about. I guess that's what happens when people stop considering IT skilled labor and start hiring that way.
My board of directors loves my ass for the millions of dollars I've saved them over the years,
enantiodromiaAug 16, 2010
I find it extremely difficult to believe you have saved your companies millions of dollars through your use of open source software.
Can you give some examples?
Go ahead and exaggerate everything if you like, I still doubt you will show more than $2M in software savings.
ssomu007Aug 15, 2010
Human Resource must be ready for open source software. Think how much we can save.
pirategonzoAug 15, 2010
2011 will be the year of Linux... Promise this time.
tsothaAug 15, 2010
The joke is "... Linux on the desktop". Because the server room is already pretty heavily dominated by OSS. I work in a fortune 500 company, one of the few that's making lots of money these days. We're almost 100% Linux in the server room.
myztryAug 15, 2010
2012 will be the year of Windows in the server domain, and then we can all look forward to Client Access Licenses all the way down to ADSL routers...
enantiodromiaAug 15, 2010
Every year is the Year of Linux. Try visiting a datacenter some day.
doshindudeAug 15, 2010
It really is....Ubuntu is a prime example of this, simple questions on installing software or figuring out a single terminal command often yields to hours of googling and reading tons of forum posts on how to do one simple thing.
fuzzynyankoAug 15, 2010
It used to be worse before Ubuntu. They used to say "RTFM, N00B!"
derangedpenguinAug 15, 2010
Oh no not the command line? :-O
Oh my gwad a text editor that requires I do more than type and click on the save file icon.
Oh my double gwad a server that lacks pretty windows. Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
lbxac20Aug 15, 2010
"sudo apt-get install wine"
You just installed wine on Ubuntu Linux. No novel required. Or hours of googling.
holyliaisonAug 15, 2010
Any normal Windows user isn't going to know that command. It would take them hours of Googling to figure that out! Let alone find out where to enter it.
lbxac20Aug 15, 2010
More like 2 minutes of Googling.
First result for "ubuntu install wine" is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine
Installing Wine
Ubuntu versions of Wine (Recommended)
* open the software center
* Type wine and install 'wine'
OMG thats so difficult
/s
dtfinchAug 15, 2010
The problems that I see other people have a lot are with getting apps to install, run, and work on wine, not problems with installing wine itself.
opiticaAug 15, 2010
The main problem isn't usually "how to install wine". It usually spawns from a question like "how to install office on ubuntu". As you start farther from the specific topic you actually need, you need that much more googling and research to figure out what actually needs to be done. Unfortunately that's where many unfamiliar computer users start.
mooretedAug 16, 2010
If you want to do it in a more Windows way (mouse clicking):
Click Applications
Click Ubuntu Software Center
Type "wine" in the search field
Click Install.
Honestly, a lot of the comments about using the cli and the difficulty of using Linux are things of the past. Unless you run into something that doesn't work, it's just as easy, if not easier, to use than Windows.
linuxbeatswin7Aug 16, 2010
Are you f**king kidding? My 8 y/o set up Photoshop in WINE on his Ubuntu PPC Mac machine today.
cooltd825Aug 16, 2010
Firefox updates with Software Updates, which runs automatically in the background. Just like a Mac or Windows.
if you type "office" in the Ubuntu Software Center, which does NOT take a genius to figure how to run, you'll get OpenOffice and a multitude of other things. For goodness sakes, my grandfather runs Ubuntu on his Pentium III. It runs fine.
Closed AccountAug 15, 2010
man <command>. There's your help. For further help Google it.
danielphermousAug 15, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
seltaeb4Aug 15, 2010
^^^ This, this, this.
In many ways the industry still hasn't learned the lesson of the Macintosh.
I need to get ideas out of my head and into some sort of electronic storage as clearly as I can capture them, regardless of the medium in which I'm working.
enantiodromiaAug 15, 2010
then hire a sysadmin. no one expects a company of artists to support their office LAN.
danielphermousAug 15, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
Closed AccountAug 15, 2010
@DanielPhermous:
If you look closely, just think about what I said. That's exactly what I meant.
BTW, computers are not just meant to help people do their jobs. It's also a great source of entertainment. There's also people who love writing/reading those pages of technical jargon and writing the software/operating systems you use for things like writing, art, video editing, etc...Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
derangedpenguinAug 15, 2010
I suspect that most Microsoft Windows use will at some point have to use the help pages or resort to Google or call Microsoft, please have your credit card in hand, or gasp call an outside professional to remove a nasty virus.
My wife is an artist, opera singer to be exact, she hates Windows has had no problem using Linux including Ubuntu Studio edition. Then again she has a Masters Degree in Music which is probably more difficult to achieve than a Masters of Business Administration because you actually have to have some sort of creative talent much like a shop full of graphic artist.
xeonrageAug 15, 2010
This account has been closed by the user
mmonetaAug 15, 2010
When businesses people talk about support, it's not the same thing as when we talk about support. They mean a couple of fawning salespeople that take them out to lunch and buy them stuff, maybe even get them laid. They're not interested in getting bugs fixed.
dig1xAug 15, 2010
Ha. Uhm, no.
They are talking about mission-critical applications that _cant_ be unavailable for any reason, technical support is what makes sure that an enterprise's best people have _somenoe else_ they can goto to ask questions.
linuxbeatswin7Aug 16, 2010
you mean blame.
jqp123Aug 15, 2010
"When business people talk about support ..."
My guess is that that you haven't really talked with many business people.
aminy23Aug 15, 2010
Beats Microsoft support. If you search for forums in Google, the Ubuntu Forum is the very first result, before the Wikipedia result for Forum. I changed my motherboard, and I had to reinstall Windows 7, and I try to activate it over the Internet and it fails, I paid for it (I had a huge student discount), and I installed it and activated it once. I call them, and it failed activation again, after 20 minutes of hold time, I talk to some Indian woman named Gauri, and after a whole bunch of arguing, she finally gave me the activation code, and I could activate it. I was dual booting Windows 7, Windows XP, and Ubuntu 10.04. After activating Windows 7, I used easyBCD and added XP back to the bootloader, and it worked fine. I decided to over clock the processor, and then I had to activate XP, and I went through the same hassle all over again, while Ubuntu worked fine the whole time. Even if OSS support is weak, most OSS does not need the support of non-free programs.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
seltaeb4Aug 15, 2010
Re-read the above.
Is it any wonder people are willing to pay more for Macs and iPads?
dauntless1Aug 15, 2010
Partially correct, technology is supposed to enable us to do more, it was never implied that people wouldn't have to learn to use the incredibly powerful tools they now have. s**t, logical thinking. You learn to drive a car, operate a DVR, shoot a gun, use a fire extinguisher, operate a cell phone, so why is having a basic laymans understanding of how to intelligently operate a much more powerful device such as a computer so f**king ridiculous?
tiptup300Aug 15, 2010
@aminy23
brool story coh
aminy23Aug 15, 2010
There is an old famous saying that explains this scenario, you get what you pay for. Now we just need to add an exception for Apple, and Microsoft.
prodigitalsonAug 15, 2010
I love it when people think that online forums are a valid form of support for mission critical s**t in the enterprise. Not that im knocking OSS, or even forums/maillists. But we are talking about support contracts for serious stuff on often massive scales, not you trying to get your video driver to work with dual displays so you can double-fist hentai.
dauntless1Aug 15, 2010
You know, the crux of this mentality seems to be the fallacy that problems must always be externally solved, when my employer simply solves this by paying competent technicians.
The truth is if a company wants good support, they pay for it. There is nothing in a modern companies infrastructure more mission critical than IT. Like it or not, there rest doesn't f**king move without it. Yet so few companies are willing to pay for REAL proficiency.
prodigitalsonAug 15, 2010
This is true but that is because lower level of proficiency are adequate to generally keep the system running in terms of day to day administration and some feature/systems roll outs. They just dont want to pay for an expert in a particular system to keep them on staff at all times.
An analogy might be property management. The company might employ several handymen or maintenance people, but they arent going to keep a plumber or mason on staff because its a waste of money.
dauntless1Aug 16, 2010
@prodigitalson
Except that in reality those technical staff are more akin to security guards. People employ them 100 percent of the time, despite only needing them 1 percent. The reason I use that comparison is because like security, when the s**t hits the fan and seconds count you don't have the time to call external help. Also, companies prefer them because of privacy and confidentiality reasons, which is ALWAYS going to be a concern when outsourcing in an emergency. The truth is that most companies simply don't want to have properly trained and educated tech staff on hand because of the negative connotations attached to being a computer geek/nerd/enthusiast, and guys in power suits going to power meetings in power cars not wanting to admit that a proper technical staff, on site or outsourced is more necessary to a modern company than the power suits are. Period. IT gets it done, or your company sinks. And it really has to be annoying to know the guys they pushed around in school are now easily more important than 99 percent of the rest of the business.
mooretedAug 16, 2010
Red Had, Novell and Ubuntu all have commercial support contracts if you want paid external support.
dtfinchAug 15, 2010
I absolutely hate support. Problems that I could fix in minutes with the source drag on for weeks, months, or years when you put layers of uneducated support tech, ticket systems, and project planners in the middle. Support is a firewall to protect a company from being too distracted by its customers' problems with their software.
tsothaAug 15, 2010
But you're a technical person, I'm guessing. You care about getting the problem addressed.
"Support" allows the CIO to tell the other executives "we're doing everything possible to resolve this", even though the problem will most likely be addressed internally after everyone agrees it's an open bug and won't be fixed any time soon.
enantiodromiaAug 15, 2010
Learn to escalate support tickets and put pressure on salespeople. If you have a ticket open for years, you aren't doing it right.
tsothaAug 15, 2010
The graphs don't really support the summary. If you look at the last pie chart you see organizations' stance on open software:
76.2%: "Use whenever possible"
14.3%: "Use sparingly"
9.5%: "Only when commercial support is available"
In other words, support really isn't a "weak link".
bettyAug 15, 2010
I'm trying to figure out why the 76% portion of the pie only uses half the space...
enantiodromiaAug 15, 2010
"whenever possible" has many possible definitions.
Execs are likely to say "it is not possible to use an open source email server".Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
javaroastAug 15, 2010
Buried. Nothing but more Amy Vernon digg spam.
enantiodromiaAug 15, 2010
Digg Nerds:
Your wicked awesome LAN parties are not quite the same thing as being responsible 24/7 for $20,000,000+ of someone else's money.
The CTO is not going to pat you on the back with a smile while you are waiting for CyberDude87 to reply to your post on LinuxQuestions.com.
dauntless1Aug 15, 2010
Wow. You managed to pack quite a lot in about how you have no idea what you're talking about. Congrats on that.
enantiodromiaAug 16, 2010
Pretty please, tell me how you came to that stupid conclusion.
prodigitalsonAug 16, 2010
Dugg for teh funney.
linuxbeatswin7Aug 16, 2010
RTFM
enantiodromiaAug 16, 2010
what manual?
sometimes the best you can hope for is a few bugzilla entries on a sourceforge project webpage.
Closed AccountAug 15, 2010
Are they serious? Half the enterprise software I work with doesn't have any support or documentation either. At least with OSS is usually find something with a Google search.
urmyhartbstoprAug 15, 2010
Err... Red Hat gives support. You gotta pay for it but they do give support. It's also what system admin is paid to do anyway.
Unless your the average user; Google, irc, forum, wiki, and many others are your solutions. Ubuntu is pretty easy, they also have a gui for installation now. If you're going to mess with LAMP stack then you shouldn't be complaining or use the cripple version, WAMP. I don't hear people complaining about MAMP and they have to deal with apache config files and such.
There are sites such as severfault.com and stackoverflow.com if you're stuck. People over at #Debian irc.debian.org are pretty nice.
jqp123Aug 15, 2010
Reading through the comments here, it is readily apparent that the business viewpoint is not very well represented at all.
Without even realizing it, the technical commentators here lay out a very strong business case *against* open source by frequently and repeatedly suggesting that all one needs to take full advantage of open source software is more/better (i.e. more expensive) technicians.
Businesses use software for only one reason --- to be more productive, i.e. to do more with fewer people. Hiring more (or more expensive) people is on the face of it, an obvious step in the wrong direction from a business perspective.
theeggmanAug 15, 2010
These articles are just playing to the stereotypes and not very useful. We use open source and cost and lack of support isn't a driver in our decisions. We use RHEL and pay for good corporate support. The end result is that we get great dedicated support when we need it and the cost is less(but not by much) than other platforms.
rapaxAug 15, 2010
After skimming that article, I get the impression that the real problem is actually *perceived* lack of support. Many user seem to be scared because there isn't the classic type of support (guy from $company arrives, performs mystical ceremony, receives enormous paycheck, rinse, repeat). However, there's tons of support for any type of open source software if you look to the developer forums or IRC channels. Problem there is, you might be required to learn how to avoid the problem next time, and many people are for some reason allergic to learning.
As someone who is forced to use Windows (and OSX, *sigh*) at work, I have to say that it's usually harder to find fast competent support for proprietary systems than it is for Linux/Android and, I assume, other FOSS.
derangedpenguinAug 15, 2010
Sure getting support from Microsoft is easy, call the 1-800 number wait on hold, have credit card ready get answer that doesn't work for your situation or go to Technet spend several hours looking for the answer.
I know many MCSE's who routinely use on line forums, because it is faster, more accurate and less costly then using Microsoft services.
Linux approach got to google.com/linux, type in question.
Contact your vendor:
Novell Suse,
Red Hat,
Oracle
Canonical "We've come a long way since our launch in 2004. We now have over 350 staff in more than 30 countries, and offices in London, Boston, Taipei, Montreal and the Isle of Man."
Use your distributions on line documentation
Look at info application
Look at man application
type in application --help
This article maybe legit and real concern by some corporations, however these concerns are mostly the result of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt spread by an embattled Microsoft
Closed AccountAug 16, 2010
The problem with open source is that they have no incentive to make it easier. If it's just a free product, the programmers have no incentive to make it easier because they built it for them and no one else. If you're a corporation who provides open source support, you're not gonna make it easier because then you make less money. You want your customers to call you more, not less.
But with proprietary software, they make money on license fees including support as part of the license fee. If they find out support costs are going up, then they will actually go in and make whatever feature is easier that customers are calling in about the most. The end result is that they lose less money on support costs and their customers don't call them as much.
Open source software has no such incentive for this since the easier they make it, the less likely people will call them for support. That's why features that are in proprietary software, open source software will never get.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
linuxbeatswin7Aug 16, 2010
That is the most retarded comment I have ever read on Digg. Can you even name ONE feature of proprietary software that Linux cannot do? No you can't. Granted Oracle has some, but you wouldn't know about them.
cooltd825Aug 16, 2010
Ever try to get anything fixed with Microsoft Support? They tell you to uninstall your video drivers, and then let them take over the computer and try a dozen things before they may or may not fix it. My specific problem? Took me weeks to fix it by myself, but I did!
Whenever I've had a problem in Linux, be it Ubuntu, Fedora, or even Arch, my question is always answered. Even if it's not a solution, there are people working toward fixing my problem. That's something Windows needs.... a true community.
mooretedAug 16, 2010
Everyone keeps talking about how great commercial, closed-source support is compared to open-source. Have you ever called HP, AT&T, Dell, Microsoft? How helpful was the nice Indian lady who claims her name is Mary? How many hours did it take you to get to tier 2 support?
donkiAug 20, 2010
I guess you're too much of a freetard to have ever used enterprise support.