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AngelWardriver
11956 Followers
Jeff Flowers
18285 Followers
llllllllllllllJun 23, 2010
The NSA has always had backdoors into the large ATM routers that are the backbone of the internet, and I would bet Interpol does as well. So your packets are already being sniffed.
samurimasterJun 23, 2010
Now prove it.
llllllllllllllJun 23, 2010
ARLINGTON, Va. -- Activists have long grumbled about the privacy implications of the legal "backdoors" that networking companies like Cisco build into their equipment--functions that let law enforcement quietly track the Internet activities of criminal suspects.
http://comsecllc.blogspot.com/2010/02/ciscos-backdoor-for-hackers.html
endernetJun 23, 2010
I don't think you understand what this Forbes article is actually talking about. The only tap the NSA has been caught using was a closet in an San Francisco AT&T switching office using some really expensive equipment to sniff/capture traffic which is what they would need to do what you're suggesting and is a practical application.
offrdbanditJun 23, 2010
How exactly is the NSA supposed to fork, collect, store, and analyze data from "the backbone of the internet" without knowledge or an enormous backbone of its own?
Basically, the NSA would have to operate a secret Internet to do what you've suggested. Which is asinine.Comment is buried, click here to see the rest.
Closed AccountJun 23, 2010
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/21/att_nsa/index.html
llllllllllllllJun 23, 2010
Sniffing, as in looking for a few letters/words/phrases as the packets flow by. When they find it, they log the IP address.
How much bandwidth/overhead do you think that takes?
Closed AccountJun 23, 2010
there's a huge difference between sniffing packets that go through the closed door room at at&t and having a backdoor into all the routers that make up the backbone of the internet.
dattawayJun 23, 2010
Network operators have to "maintain" their networks to ensure optimum service. They know how its being used...
fiji5555Jun 23, 2010
Sniff THIS
doublebaconsodaJun 23, 2010
I know this doesn't fix anything but it's free. If you want high security you should protect stuff on your end not rely on some random open wifi hotspot to keep you safe from others.
bdbrJun 23, 2010
Cafes just need to post a warning that their network isn't secure. It would suck if some asshat sued a cafe because they (the customer) sent some unencrypted personal info on a public net.
bosskeyJun 23, 2010
Unfortunately not much will change until SSL/VPN services come standard with your OS. I don't mean the capability, since that is already built in, but the subscription to a VPN service. I do it, but almost nobody I know even knows what it means to establish a secure connection through an unsecured wireless access point. They literally don't even know they are vulnerable at the local indie wifi coffee house.
SSL VPN FTW
resuehtJun 23, 2010
Sniffing is fun when you live in an apartment in a college town; if you do it right you can read facebook chat messages and IMs.
llllllllllllllJun 23, 2010
You need a hobby dork.
akchrsJun 23, 2010
Knoppix STD FTW!!
darkphenoxJun 23, 2010
Using an open wifi is about as private as talking on a walkie talkie.
mcgrudeJun 23, 2010
Or the old 800mhz cell phone network. It was hilarious... You'd hear drug deals being made and they had no idea that ANYONE can hear what they're saying.
jqp123Jun 23, 2010
"Using an open wifi is about as private as talking on a walkie talkie."
I disagree ... for the obvious reason that there is no addressing system built into a walkie talkie. Everything done on a walkie talkie is a public broadcast and everyone knows it.
But wi-fi does have addressing built-in. A standard off the shelf computer won't intercept packets that are not addressed to it. This behavior can be overridden ... but someone has to intentionally do this.
Unlike with a walkie talkie, wi-fi packet sniffing and eavesdropping isn't quite as simple as pressing the ON switch.
tommyrJun 23, 2010
"Bend up and smell my anal vapor".
samurimasterJun 23, 2010
A public facing network without access control is the definition of insecure.
jcostomJun 23, 2010
And that just means I'll only use encrypted transports on unsecured networks.
Oh wait, I've been doing that for years now.
Terminal sessions? SSH.
Webmail? SSL secured.
Everything else? VPN.
funkywitdasystmJun 23, 2010
point-to-point encryption. suck it.
mikes1Jun 23, 2010
Who cares about packet sniffing? - this means more spam.
homercles337Jun 23, 2010
An open network is an invitation to use.
jqp123Jun 23, 2010
True ---- but simply *using* an open network is not *packet sniffing*. Packet sniffing involves capturing data addressed to other users on the open network.
czarcasmJun 23, 2010
SSH or VPN is your friend people.Although I *think* chat sessions are set up on a separate port but you can configure that as well.
chakatJun 23, 2010
openssh can be used as a socks5 proxy, so any app that can use socks5 -- most browsers, many all in one chat programs, etc, can use it pretty seamlessly.
Closed AccountJun 23, 2010
PuTTY is a great way of doing that - you can either forward ports statically or you can set one port up to be a SOCKS 5 proxy like you said, which can forward anything.
rmxzJun 23, 2010
If they announce that Packet Sniffing *WILL* occur - that'd be best thing for making sure people use encrypted protocols (https, VPNs, etc) from starbucks.
OTOH, if they say Packet Sniffing's illegal - a lot of stupid people will trust that the laws'll protect them and not care about any technological solution that could keep them safer.
honoredmuleJun 23, 2010
+1 bazillion
ialan2Jun 23, 2010
You forget that the people making these laws are technologically inept.
jqp123Jun 23, 2010
"I wonder if the internet would be a safer place if they say packet sniffing *IS* legal."
There is no way that packet sniffing is legal under current law.
Intentionally intercepting communications not addressed to you has always been illegal, even before computers existed. Reading your neighbors mail has always been illegal --- even if you seal the letter back up and put it back into his box so he is none the wiser and hasn't lost any communication.
From a legal and privacy standpoint, it's pretty simple --- if it's not addressed to you, it's none of your business and you shouldn't be messing with it --- regardless of whether you're talking about the postal mail system or wi-fi packets.
However, this is not to say that every such case will be criminally prosecuted.
honoredmuleJun 23, 2010
Maybe it's different in the U.S., but here people only /assume/ violating their privacy in any way is illegal. Mail is legally protected (assuming it goes through Canada Post), and anything on private property by extension of the property itself, but communications that pass over public networks of any kind aren't even mentioned in privacy or wiretapping laws. Privately owned and operated communications networks remain a grey area, though they could probably prosecute on their customers' behalf if they cared enough. Your open wifi however--using public channels over public air--is open season.
bdbrJun 23, 2010
Should coffee shops also be liable for any conversations between customers that are overheard?
Closed AccountJun 23, 2010
Humans would be aware if they were having a loud conversation that other people could hear - and often the participants of said conversation will be able to tell if someone is listening by looking at them. However, people are simply not aware that their communications with an open WiFi hotspot are effectively a shouted conversation.
jqp123Jun 23, 2010
"People can eavesdrop and the target would have absolutely no idea."
Yes, but someone would have to *intentionally* eavesdrop.
Wi-fi does have addressing built-in. Even on an open network, everything is not a public broadcast. The computer at the next table won't just casually overhear your conversation without some intentional programming.
rfquinnJun 23, 2010
PSA - Even if you're on an encrypted wireless network, other people connected to the same access point can see your packets.
skyler827Jun 23, 2010
I agree with the ^above comments, If a network is unsecured, it isn't fair to criminalize use of the network in any form. It would give regulators too much discretion. Everyone can access on open network, and anyone can easily secure their own home network as well.
Besides, all of our digital stuff can already be easily secured with things like firewalls, internet security suites, VPNs and SSL encryption on open networks anyway.
dougman82Jun 23, 2010
This is retarded. The only reason that this crap stands in court is because to the common layman, anything on a computer is private, and therefore packet sniffing is tantamount to hacking said computer.
People need to realize that those wifi connections don't work through magic. Just because you can't physically hear or see the signals doesn't mean they are not being broadcast just as publicly as if you were talking on the phone in the middle of a crowded mall.
jqp123Jun 23, 2010
"Just because you can't physically hear or see the signals doesn't mean they are not being broadcast just as publicly as if you were talking on the phone in the middle of a crowded mall."
Where the law is concerned, intent is everything.
We are all naturally equipped to hear. Your hearing is always on, you can't turn it off and most everyone is aware of that basic fact. Overhearing a casual conversation in the mall is not *intentional* eavesdropping or wiretapping.
We are not all naturally equipped to intercept wi-fi packets addressed to someone other than ourselves. Even a standard PC isn't normally equipped to do it without some additional programming. Anyone packet sniffing is doing so purposely and *intentionally*.
Intentionally intercepting communications addressed to others has always been illegal, even before computers existed.
Closed AccountJun 23, 2010
f**k IT, I am getting sick of these spammers. No one here is dumb enough to click on your goddamn spam links. Digg needs a f**king SPAM post filter or some kind of heuristic detection.
wigen1jtJun 23, 2010
The Internet is not something you just dump stuff on. It is not a big truck. It is a series of tubes!