countercurrents.org — The particular genius of the Founding Fathers was their understanding that a Christian nation can be a dangerous place for both believers and nonbelievers. They knew that government prescribed religion—usually that of the most politically connected sect—invariably leads to intolerance and tyranny.
Jan 27, 2008 View in Crawl 4
Closed AccountJan 28, 2008
You are all missing the point. The point is that America was founded on Christian principles by men who were seeking freedom to be Christians.The reason anyone can say, whether accurately or not, that America is a Christian nation is because of the Christian beliefs of its people, not any mandate or law by the government.Given that most Christians would prefer representatives who, themselves, are Christians, then this is where Christian beliefs and morals have influence on government policies indirectly.This is no different than an atheist being elected and using his secular humanist outlook on life to guide his policy making.
Closed AccountJan 28, 2008
CHRISTIAN NATION WHO?What civilisation is that? You clearly don't mean the USA. We were founded by Deists who implemented the seperation of church and state and based their ideas on The Enlightment, following the French model. Only after the Christians got control of the Govt (cira 1950s) did they add "In God We Trust" to the money and "One nation under god" to the pledge.The Fundies are parasites.
Closed AccountJan 28, 2008
""You are all missing the point. The point is that America was founded on Christian principles by men who were seeking freedom to be Christians.""-----------------------You need to go back and take 3rd grade American history. The founding fathers of this country were mostly Deists and Free Masons. NOT Christians. America is a nation based on FREEDOM. If you want a little Christian wonderland, then GO FORM ONE. America has already been earmarked as a democratic republic. We have no room for religious zealots trying to elbow in. <a class="user" href="http://atheism.about.com/b/a/198420.htm">http://atheism.about.com/b/a/198420.htm</a>
drummerbrotherJan 28, 2008
Good call. Lucky for me, I live in New Zealand, and even among Christians here people tend to be far more liberal than our American counterparts. So, I see far less bigotry and repression than I see in America. You're right, people have every reason think ill of Christians, who have too often forced their fundamental beliefs on people. But please, don't be so ignorant as to say something as general as "your leaders all are". Personally, I am not "churchified", I don't buy in to the "Christians lifestyle". Jesus is my leader, simple as that. Remember, people pushing a message of hate will get more media coverage than those pushing love, so consider that you're perhaps not getting a well-rounded view of Christians everywhere.
buckqjohnsonJan 29, 2008
Anyone that can exclude one religion can certainly exclude a sect of the same religion. I know some of the born again evangelicals that are so adamant about there religion over others that they can't see the forest because of the tree in front of them. If they made this country into a theocracy, do they think they wouldn't be on the losing end of any law passed. We already see some theocracies in the middleeast, and the way they rule over everybody is exactly as the one writer of the constitution talked about. The political and financially connected sects will be the ones benefitting, but they don't look at it that way because in a nutshell there blinding themselves to the reality of life.It's better to have more of a foot in the rapture side than the real world, this way you don't have to really deal with your problems and other people problems. Just wish for a god country and everything will work out, it doesn't work that way. The path to hell has always always been paved with the golden bricks of good intentions. Here's a test that some of you should try with one of these born again or religion is everything people. When they say that you should believe (I'm not saying anyone is or isn't a athiest) in god, tell them okay I will if you can believe that there isn't one. Everytime I had a discussion about evolution or separation of church and state, they can't (even for argument sake) say there isn't one. And thats the main reason for me they should separate church from state. If your not able to be pragmatic enough or open minded to even consider questioning your believes but yet want everybody else to question theres, then individuals like this shouldn't get what they want. Because they could easily (with a smile) try to destroy another sect or another religion on the basis it goes against it.As a country we should never ever entertain this thought of combining religion and the state apparatus, because eventually it will be used against you and by that time there won't be anybody to protect you.
Closed AccountJan 29, 2008
Not true.<a class="user" href="http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm">http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm</a>Deists and masons don't talk like this, now do they? Hmmm???Your liberalized atheistic nonsense has been rebutted over and over...and still gets posted.
Closed AccountJan 30, 2008
Quit trying to prove something and try and actually learn something for a change. You obviously haven't a clue about the framers of our constitution.VIRTUALLY ALL FOUNDING FATHERS WERE AGAINST AMERICA BEING A CHRISTIAN.NATION:Quotes from the United States of America's Founding Fathers:"As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.--Treaty of Tripoli in 1797, President John Adams. And now we'll continue with the quotes:John Adams:" Consider what calamities Christianity, that engine of grief, has produced!"--John Adams"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdit and a whole carload of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams iBenjamin Franklin"Lighthouses are more helpful than Christian churches."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758"Christians are not, for our Republic, a good example." Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758Christianity I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, and serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin FranklinThomas Jefferson:"Make no law respecting an establishment of religion, thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson _"Our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opnions, of Christianity, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"--Thomas Jefferson"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with Christianity."--Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Samuel Miller, 1808"No religious reading, instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced in the schools as it is inconsistent with the tenets of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson, _" An amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority. Thomas Jefferson, from his autobiography, 1821, "Christianity has become the most perverted system that ever shone on man." --Thomas Jefferson, "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology."--Thomas Jefferson"The simple teachings of Jesus have turned into an engine for enslaving mankind and has, in fact, constituted the real Anti-Christ." -- Thomas JeffersonJames Madison"The Civil Government have been manifestly declared to be founded and maintained by a TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."--James MadisonThomas Paine"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God" -- Thomas Paine, _The_Age_of_Reason_"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church,by the Protestant Church, not by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church."--Thomas Paine, _Excerpts_from_The_Age_of_Reason"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."--Thomas Paine"The religion of Deism is superior to the Christian Religion. It is free from all those invented and torturing articles that shock our reason or injure our humanity,"--Thomas Paine, _