dmartin.org— Just a run down on essentially why Windows sucks-- written by a well versed programmer. Made me finally install Ubuntu on one of my machines.
Mar 14, 2007View in Crawl 4
"Running Adblock and/or Spybot Search & Destroy on a routine basis, consuming your time, and requiring your manual intervention. People often forget or don't "get around to it"I have wasted far more hours of my life trying to get even the most common, basic features to work in Linux than I ever have running a routine system check in Windows. Frankly, I run a weekly check-up and clean-up and I rarely ever encounter a problem with spyware/adware, much less a virus. I think it has been years since I have had a PC virus.
Web developers/programmers need multiple versions of IE installed since they need to test content in every version before deploying a web site/app. Many people out there still use old versions of IE and it is best to test a site before deploying it and half your audience can't view it correctly.
Yes, the latest release. Along with the usual problems, now I can't get wide-screen resolution for my new wide-screen monitor. Although there are some tutorials that are so long and tedious that they take over a minute to load on a high-speed cable connection. Even then, these are just the typical "work-arounds" that fail half the time assuming I make it that far without a major problem, road-block, or utter despair after wasting hours of my time doing something that is less than 4 mouse clicks away in Windows.
"1) Um...yeah. Until you hit dependency hell. Then it's all out the Window (pun intended). I've never been to dependency hell in Windows or Mac."I have hit dependency hell on a windows box. Several times before. I can give a clear example too! We use several different programming IDE's for multiple projects. Visual SourceSafe and Visual studio on their own work fine. However, when we do installs on systems that have other IDEs on them with their respective plugins (eclipse with the VSS plugins for example) we have hit several issues where the versioning is all screwed up and some programs wont even install properly. The solution that seems to work is to force VSS to install (when it gets pissy just tell it to install anyway) the first time (even though it wont work), then install the rest of the programs and then reinstall VSS (the second time everything is in place and it just installs).I am a Linux guy so I am not even going to pretend I know what happens. I just see the windows developers fight with this everytime we get a new system. Microsoft support scrathed their heads and shrugged and proceeded to blame the other products. The funny thing is that if we dont use VSS but CVS for the project, we never have a problem :-pDependency hell is...well hell. so I am not arguing that it is ok, but I am saying that it happens on windows as well. However, I will say I have yet to hit it on my Debian box...just saying :-D"2) Not true, unless you're running barebones without a window manager (console only), KDE and Gnome do require a reboot on update. IOW, just like Windows."False, so quit spreading FUD. When you start a program on windows it locks the files. It has to unlock those files for them to be updated. In Linux when you start a program it clones the program. When you update the file, it just updates. The next time you start the file you get the latest version. Obviously to stop and start the kernel is a reboot. Gnome and KDE both have complete restarts on log out. If you REALLY want to make sure that it does do a complete turn off and back on try ctrl+alt+backspace. Google it for more info. Either way, no reboot."3) The old security by obscurity fallacy. My Windows 3.1 computer works the exact same way! And hell, I only run spybot once every few months. It never finds any spyware. I download whatever I want. The best part is not having to worry about compiling it!"I laugh at anyone dumb enough to beleive this. This mentatlity can only be born in a world where critical updates take 6-12months. Poor windows admins rocking back and forth in the corner: "please dont find this hole, please dont find this hole, only 8 more months to patch release"If you are compiling everything you are either using a distro WAY to advance for you (gentoo does compiles but it is pretty easy) or you are just trying to make it difficult for yourself so you can run back to windows and feel good. Whatever helps you sleep..."5) Inaccurate. Windows has actually had this features since Windows 95."Really? Please do tell. One of the top 5 complaints I have against windows and why I left windows for good was because EVERY time I had to do a rebuild or changed my system I lost all of my changes and tweaks. A complete rebuild of XP, plus updates, plus install of all my programs, plus getting things back to the way I wanted it was a complete saturday wasted. I now do a net install of Debian and run a script to grab all of the programs I use and because my /home partition was never deleted, a rebuild takes less then an hour (I run a local Debian mirror so my net speeds are quite fast. if you are on a slow connection obviously it may take a bit longer).The /only/ equivelent that I am aware of is roaming profiles. I do not think I have met a Admin who has not thought it was a genious idea that was poorly done. It is slow, resource intensive, difficult to manage, not really portable per say, and riddled with security holes.
"if anyone has any good advice on routers that can stand up to the digg effect, I'm all ears"I had a friend who got /.'d a while back (I know its not digg, but /. effect is still quite infamous) and his linksys router was peaked the entire time. It was the bottleneck. Later on he installed dd-wrt (<a class="user" href="http://www.dd-wrt.com/)">http://www.dd-wrt.com/)</a> and it gave him a ton of features to tweak his settings and it held up just fine when he was /. a second time. I have been using dd-wrt ever since as that was some of the best advertisement to me. Same hardware, different software. It might be something to look into...
@fatdog789:"1) Um...yeah. Until you hit dependency hell. Then it's all out the Window (pun intended). I've never been to dependency hell in Windows or Mac."We are talking about UPDATES here, not INSTALLS."2) Not true, unless you're running barebones without a window manager (console only), KDE and Gnome do require a reboot on update. IOW, just like Windows."Yes, true. Unlike Windows, the UI isn't welded to the lower-level components. Update something that requires a restart of the X server? Just Control+Alt+Backspace, and within about 7 seconds, you are back to your desktop."3) The old security by obscurity fallacy. My Windows 3.1 computer works the exact same way! And hell, I only run spybot once every few months. It never finds any spyware. I download whatever I want. The best part is not having to worry about compiling it!"That's hilarious. Do you even know what you are talking about? Obviously not. GNU/Linux has security by good design; WINDOWS has security by obscurity."4) ???? Most Windows users pay for their software. Most LINUX users pirate their software on their Windows systems because their too ****y to admit their prefer Windows."That would be funny, if you weren't so dead serious."5) Inaccurate. Windows has actually had this features since Windows 95."Uh, no? Windows programs store preferences all over the place.OK, a concrete example. Show me how to back up all your user settings for all programs on the system to a usb disk with one command in Windows.I'm waiting.Oh, you want me to do it on GNU/Linux? OK.cp -R ~/.* /media/diskDone."6) Why would I want to run IE 5 or IE 6?"Because of compatibility?"7) Says someone who who clearly has no Windows or MS programming experience."Says someone who doesn't even seem to know what source code is. Your comment is completely irrelevant to what he was talking about."8) Uniformity is a good thing. It means that I can use any Windows computer without wondering where the hell the menu is. Or where the start button is. Or what a button is supposed to look like."No, uniformity is NOT a good thing at the expense of lack of flexibility of the system. Know what my "Start menu" is? It's custom, coded in Python, based on someone else's menu code, changed to add features I like. I like that ability."Plus, Windows XP does support themes, no money required."Not without hacking a DLL file."9) Too much competition for a non-fungible good discourages adoption. Too many distros is not a good thing, especially when they all together have features that may trump Windows, but individually come up lacking."Again, you don't seem to even know what the author is talking about. He is talking about different software packages which accomplish the same task, not different distros."10) Windows has the software analogs of those programs. Most of them come with Windows. The rest don't, because MS got sued by Apple for doing that."Same goes the other way. As the author said, it's a two-way street."11) Free software only benefits society if it's good. Most free software isn't good."Bull."Have you ever used OpenOffice? That thing is such a resource hog you need a P4 with 10 GBs of RAM just to get it to start within a decade of running it."That's interesting. It starts in 5 seconds on my soon-to-be-retired laptop, a 1.3Ghz Celeron M with 512MB of ram. Try again.If your ignorance didn't sound so sincere, I would think you were a troll.
"things that windows can do:- use a XFI sound card"Not our fault."- use a ati video card"So can we, but the incompatibilities are not our fault."- use some other hardware"Uhh, "some other hardware". Very specific. We support many architectures which Windows does not, so I guess that counts as "use truckloads of other hardware"."- play games natively [ST*U, quake 4 sucks]"*cough* wine *cough* not our fault *cough*"- some more stuff"Some more stuff. How eloquent. Translation: "I couldn't think of any more disadvantages, so I'll fill up more space with this useless item.""digg me down lamers"Gladly. Want fries with that?"BTW Yes I have installed and used ubuntu edgy but because of the above I switched back"Good. Please, please, please stay on Windows. We have enough trolls over here already.
"#1Install OS and have everything work right away"Done."#2Plug in a device and have it work right away"Done - without drivers. Try that with Windows."#3Not have to configure the stupidest most mundane piece of software or hardware to get basic results."Done, mostly."#5Not have to scour the net for drivers...that work"Done!! More so than Windows, in most cases.
culledMar 15, 2007
Dugg mirror didn't catch the page.Edit: Curse your edit which showed up right after I posted this.
orbit1979Mar 15, 2007
"Running Adblock and/or Spybot Search & Destroy on a routine basis, consuming your time, and requiring your manual intervention. People often forget or don't "get around to it"I have wasted far more hours of my life trying to get even the most common, basic features to work in Linux than I ever have running a routine system check in Windows. Frankly, I run a weekly check-up and clean-up and I rarely ever encounter a problem with spyware/adware, much less a virus. I think it has been years since I have had a PC virus.
wookitusMar 15, 2007
Web developers/programmers need multiple versions of IE installed since they need to test content in every version before deploying a web site/app. Many people out there still use old versions of IE and it is best to test a site before deploying it and half your audience can't view it correctly.
orbit1979Mar 15, 2007
Yes, the latest release. Along with the usual problems, now I can't get wide-screen resolution for my new wide-screen monitor. Although there are some tutorials that are so long and tedious that they take over a minute to load on a high-speed cable connection. Even then, these are just the typical "work-arounds" that fail half the time assuming I make it that far without a major problem, road-block, or utter despair after wasting hours of my time doing something that is less than 4 mouse clicks away in Windows.
edlesmannMar 15, 2007
"1) Um...yeah. Until you hit dependency hell. Then it's all out the Window (pun intended). I've never been to dependency hell in Windows or Mac."I have hit dependency hell on a windows box. Several times before. I can give a clear example too! We use several different programming IDE's for multiple projects. Visual SourceSafe and Visual studio on their own work fine. However, when we do installs on systems that have other IDEs on them with their respective plugins (eclipse with the VSS plugins for example) we have hit several issues where the versioning is all screwed up and some programs wont even install properly. The solution that seems to work is to force VSS to install (when it gets pissy just tell it to install anyway) the first time (even though it wont work), then install the rest of the programs and then reinstall VSS (the second time everything is in place and it just installs).I am a Linux guy so I am not even going to pretend I know what happens. I just see the windows developers fight with this everytime we get a new system. Microsoft support scrathed their heads and shrugged and proceeded to blame the other products. The funny thing is that if we dont use VSS but CVS for the project, we never have a problem :-pDependency hell is...well hell. so I am not arguing that it is ok, but I am saying that it happens on windows as well. However, I will say I have yet to hit it on my Debian box...just saying :-D"2) Not true, unless you're running barebones without a window manager (console only), KDE and Gnome do require a reboot on update. IOW, just like Windows."False, so quit spreading FUD. When you start a program on windows it locks the files. It has to unlock those files for them to be updated. In Linux when you start a program it clones the program. When you update the file, it just updates. The next time you start the file you get the latest version. Obviously to stop and start the kernel is a reboot. Gnome and KDE both have complete restarts on log out. If you REALLY want to make sure that it does do a complete turn off and back on try ctrl+alt+backspace. Google it for more info. Either way, no reboot."3) The old security by obscurity fallacy. My Windows 3.1 computer works the exact same way! And hell, I only run spybot once every few months. It never finds any spyware. I download whatever I want. The best part is not having to worry about compiling it!"I laugh at anyone dumb enough to beleive this. This mentatlity can only be born in a world where critical updates take 6-12months. Poor windows admins rocking back and forth in the corner: "please dont find this hole, please dont find this hole, only 8 more months to patch release"If you are compiling everything you are either using a distro WAY to advance for you (gentoo does compiles but it is pretty easy) or you are just trying to make it difficult for yourself so you can run back to windows and feel good. Whatever helps you sleep..."5) Inaccurate. Windows has actually had this features since Windows 95."Really? Please do tell. One of the top 5 complaints I have against windows and why I left windows for good was because EVERY time I had to do a rebuild or changed my system I lost all of my changes and tweaks. A complete rebuild of XP, plus updates, plus install of all my programs, plus getting things back to the way I wanted it was a complete saturday wasted. I now do a net install of Debian and run a script to grab all of the programs I use and because my /home partition was never deleted, a rebuild takes less then an hour (I run a local Debian mirror so my net speeds are quite fast. if you are on a slow connection obviously it may take a bit longer).The /only/ equivelent that I am aware of is roaming profiles. I do not think I have met a Admin who has not thought it was a genious idea that was poorly done. It is slow, resource intensive, difficult to manage, not really portable per say, and riddled with security holes.
edlesmannMar 15, 2007
"if anyone has any good advice on routers that can stand up to the digg effect, I'm all ears"I had a friend who got /.'d a while back (I know its not digg, but /. effect is still quite infamous) and his linksys router was peaked the entire time. It was the bottleneck. Later on he installed dd-wrt (<a class="user" href="http://www.dd-wrt.com/)">http://www.dd-wrt.com/)</a> and it gave him a ton of features to tweak his settings and it held up just fine when he was /. a second time. I have been using dd-wrt ever since as that was some of the best advertisement to me. Same hardware, different software. It might be something to look into...
Closed AccountMar 17, 2007
@fatdog789:"1) Um...yeah. Until you hit dependency hell. Then it's all out the Window (pun intended). I've never been to dependency hell in Windows or Mac."We are talking about UPDATES here, not INSTALLS."2) Not true, unless you're running barebones without a window manager (console only), KDE and Gnome do require a reboot on update. IOW, just like Windows."Yes, true. Unlike Windows, the UI isn't welded to the lower-level components. Update something that requires a restart of the X server? Just Control+Alt+Backspace, and within about 7 seconds, you are back to your desktop."3) The old security by obscurity fallacy. My Windows 3.1 computer works the exact same way! And hell, I only run spybot once every few months. It never finds any spyware. I download whatever I want. The best part is not having to worry about compiling it!"That's hilarious. Do you even know what you are talking about? Obviously not. GNU/Linux has security by good design; WINDOWS has security by obscurity."4) ???? Most Windows users pay for their software. Most LINUX users pirate their software on their Windows systems because their too ****y to admit their prefer Windows."That would be funny, if you weren't so dead serious."5) Inaccurate. Windows has actually had this features since Windows 95."Uh, no? Windows programs store preferences all over the place.OK, a concrete example. Show me how to back up all your user settings for all programs on the system to a usb disk with one command in Windows.I'm waiting.Oh, you want me to do it on GNU/Linux? OK.cp -R ~/.* /media/diskDone."6) Why would I want to run IE 5 or IE 6?"Because of compatibility?"7) Says someone who who clearly has no Windows or MS programming experience."Says someone who doesn't even seem to know what source code is. Your comment is completely irrelevant to what he was talking about."8) Uniformity is a good thing. It means that I can use any Windows computer without wondering where the hell the menu is. Or where the start button is. Or what a button is supposed to look like."No, uniformity is NOT a good thing at the expense of lack of flexibility of the system. Know what my "Start menu" is? It's custom, coded in Python, based on someone else's menu code, changed to add features I like. I like that ability."Plus, Windows XP does support themes, no money required."Not without hacking a DLL file."9) Too much competition for a non-fungible good discourages adoption. Too many distros is not a good thing, especially when they all together have features that may trump Windows, but individually come up lacking."Again, you don't seem to even know what the author is talking about. He is talking about different software packages which accomplish the same task, not different distros."10) Windows has the software analogs of those programs. Most of them come with Windows. The rest don't, because MS got sued by Apple for doing that."Same goes the other way. As the author said, it's a two-way street."11) Free software only benefits society if it's good. Most free software isn't good."Bull."Have you ever used OpenOffice? That thing is such a resource hog you need a P4 with 10 GBs of RAM just to get it to start within a decade of running it."That's interesting. It starts in 5 seconds on my soon-to-be-retired laptop, a 1.3Ghz Celeron M with 512MB of ram. Try again.If your ignorance didn't sound so sincere, I would think you were a troll.
Closed AccountMar 17, 2007
"things that windows can do:- use a XFI sound card"Not our fault."- use a ati video card"So can we, but the incompatibilities are not our fault."- use some other hardware"Uhh, "some other hardware". Very specific. We support many architectures which Windows does not, so I guess that counts as "use truckloads of other hardware"."- play games natively [ST*U, quake 4 sucks]"*cough* wine *cough* not our fault *cough*"- some more stuff"Some more stuff. How eloquent. Translation: "I couldn't think of any more disadvantages, so I'll fill up more space with this useless item.""digg me down lamers"Gladly. Want fries with that?"BTW Yes I have installed and used ubuntu edgy but because of the above I switched back"Good. Please, please, please stay on Windows. We have enough trolls over here already.
Closed AccountMar 17, 2007
"#1Install OS and have everything work right away"Done."#2Plug in a device and have it work right away"Done - without drivers. Try that with Windows."#3Not have to configure the stupidest most mundane piece of software or hardware to get basic results."Done, mostly."#5Not have to scour the net for drivers...that work"Done!! More so than Windows, in most cases.