money.cnn.com— Mercedes, GM, even Honda, is betting on a new breed of green diesels. The goal? To leave hybrids in the dust.
Oct 4, 2006View in Crawl 4
When fuel prices rose 200% in Europe, all the main constructors started producing 4-5l/100km diesels .. Even 3 liter/100km (that's nearly 80 mpg .. Think VW Lupo).When is this movement going to start in the US? Or does everybody REALLY need their15mpg deeploader to haul their 2.4 children to soccer practice?
Diesels are awesome. Anyone who says they "smoke a lot", "are noisy and smelly" clearly need to pull their head out of their ass and realize that we're in the 21st century. With common rail technology, diesels have come a long way. And, torque is your biggest friend.
Diesels still don't nearly have gas engine performance.To make even close to the same power in a Diesel you need to add one or two turbos (Mercedes-Benz showed a car with 3), a larger block with thicker walls (for the compression) increasing the weight and size, plus you have to add all these high pressure pumps and such.So you end up with an engine that is larger, heavier, more expensive, more complex (more likely to break), you're still lucky if you get 85HP/liter. And even that measure is misleading since you are measuring per liter of displacement, not dip volume! Measured against dip volume or weight, a Diesel cannot produce nearly as much performance as a gas engine.They do get better mpg, and (basically because of that) produce less CO2 per mile. But since Diesel has higher energy density than gas, that means it requires more oil to make a gallon of Diesel fuel than of gas.I just don't see how we're going to help our oil depency with Diesel fuel. And no, right now, BioDiesel isn't a useful substitute. There isn't enough to go around. We'll have to crank up production, at which point the cost of BioDiesel will reflect the actual cost of production. At that point we'll find out if BioDiesel is viable or not.Me, I'd rather see electric cars made viable so we can use any available energy source (nuclear, solar, wind, anything but fossil fuels) to make our cars go.
you misunderstood the statement, "but won't cost as much as a normal hybrid", they are saying that it won't cost as much as normal S-class hybrid and not a prius.hybrid. This is only a mild-hybrid that they are talking about.A Diesel Hybrid has also been promised sometime in the future.
I totally agree... I drive a big truck. Let me tell you why:1. The chicks dig it. There's no way a hot fake blond in skin tight acid washed jeans would even look at me if I pulled up to the Tastee Freeze in a hybrid Japanese bomb.2. I have dogs. They need to go everywhere with me otherwise people don't know I have dogs. The grocery store, the hair parlor for my perm, the mall... everywhere!3. I cannot compensate for my short comings with anything smaller than a full size SUV or Truck.4. When I do actually need to haul something it comes in handy both of those times a year. 5. There's no way you leftist Pinko bastards are going to tell me what to drive. I'm proud of my ignorance and need to display it prominently. 6. Hopefully the diesel fumes will retard the brain growth of my 47 children enough so I won't have to pay for college.7. I'm glad to send as much money to the middle east as I can. The money I send there goes to pay for the weapons that have given so many kickbacks to W and Dick. Props to W!You tree huggers can all go to hell and die! I just clear cut 2 acres in my back yard for a new garage.
@da5idblacksun Considering the average VW diesel gets 50 mpg, and the next generation diesel is supposed to do 80 mpg, I think a Honda Diesel-Hybrid would be unstopable. 130 mpg anyone?
I drive an own a big SUV, but I car pool with my wife in her Taurus, usually 4 out of 5 days...What people should really be talking about is how much gas do you use per week? Someone driving that hybrid could be commuting a lot and still be using 40 gallons/week. I car pool and I might drive my SUV once/week to work and I might fill its tank every two weeks. Today, I car pooled, does anyone here car pool and did you today?The main reason I have a SUV is for recreation. I tow a 6000lb camper. There isn't a car or minivan that can tow that. Some people fly for a vacation, which uses jet fuel, some people just drive to the nearest beach. I choose to camp in a camper. We go a hundred of so miles to a camp ground, turn around and come back. It floats my boat...As far as gas prices, even at $3+/gallon, it is still cheap. If you pay $40,000 for a nice SUV, do you really care if you spend $4000/year on gas? Assuming $3/gallon, 15,000miles/year and a really bad 12mpg. $4000 could be a big deal if you buy a $10,000 car, but not a $40,000 SUV....The reason we have a fairly large sedan (not by american standards) but it still qualifies as a large sedan is for safety. Large sedans are the safest vehicles on the road followed by large (not medium, or small) SUVs. You can put your family in that civic, or yugo, but I won't. Fatality statistics:Driver deaths per million registered passenger vehicles 1-3 years old by crash type,
Wow, just read the article.That vehicle is not real.You cannot remove the mechanical brakes from a car. Why? Well, because first of all, because you need to be able to stop faster than you accelerate, and regnerative braking can't do this, it would require removing energy from system faster than the drivetrain is capable of. Second, a generator type system cannot effectively slow a car on its own because the generator produces less electricity the slower you spin the input shaft (wheels). That means it's removing less energy from the system. That means that the slower the car goes, the less braking power it has. At slow speeds of 5-10mph, you have almost no braking power at all. You must use mechanical brakes to finish the job.Finally, 200-250 miles worth of all-electric range means you need a huge battery pack. The Tesla requires about $50,000 worth of batteries, this vehicle would require a bit more due to higher weight. Ultra capacitors hold even less energy.In short, this vehicle is fake, and if it were real, you couldn't afford it.
joskeOct 5, 2006
When fuel prices rose 200% in Europe, all the main constructors started producing 4-5l/100km diesels .. Even 3 liter/100km (that's nearly 80 mpg .. Think VW Lupo).When is this movement going to start in the US? Or does everybody REALLY need their15mpg deeploader to haul their 2.4 children to soccer practice?
Closed AccountOct 5, 2006
Diesels are awesome. Anyone who says they "smoke a lot", "are noisy and smelly" clearly need to pull their head out of their ass and realize that we're in the 21st century. With common rail technology, diesels have come a long way. And, torque is your biggest friend.
happyscrappyOct 5, 2006
Diesels still don't nearly have gas engine performance.To make even close to the same power in a Diesel you need to add one or two turbos (Mercedes-Benz showed a car with 3), a larger block with thicker walls (for the compression) increasing the weight and size, plus you have to add all these high pressure pumps and such.So you end up with an engine that is larger, heavier, more expensive, more complex (more likely to break), you're still lucky if you get 85HP/liter. And even that measure is misleading since you are measuring per liter of displacement, not dip volume! Measured against dip volume or weight, a Diesel cannot produce nearly as much performance as a gas engine.They do get better mpg, and (basically because of that) produce less CO2 per mile. But since Diesel has higher energy density than gas, that means it requires more oil to make a gallon of Diesel fuel than of gas.I just don't see how we're going to help our oil depency with Diesel fuel. And no, right now, BioDiesel isn't a useful substitute. There isn't enough to go around. We'll have to crank up production, at which point the cost of BioDiesel will reflect the actual cost of production. At that point we'll find out if BioDiesel is viable or not.Me, I'd rather see electric cars made viable so we can use any available energy source (nuclear, solar, wind, anything but fossil fuels) to make our cars go.
nox327Oct 5, 2006
you misunderstood the statement, "but won't cost as much as a normal hybrid", they are saying that it won't cost as much as normal S-class hybrid and not a prius.hybrid. This is only a mild-hybrid that they are talking about.A Diesel Hybrid has also been promised sometime in the future.
dreserdOct 5, 2006
I totally agree... I drive a big truck. Let me tell you why:1. The chicks dig it. There's no way a hot fake blond in skin tight acid washed jeans would even look at me if I pulled up to the Tastee Freeze in a hybrid Japanese bomb.2. I have dogs. They need to go everywhere with me otherwise people don't know I have dogs. The grocery store, the hair parlor for my perm, the mall... everywhere!3. I cannot compensate for my short comings with anything smaller than a full size SUV or Truck.4. When I do actually need to haul something it comes in handy both of those times a year. 5. There's no way you leftist Pinko bastards are going to tell me what to drive. I'm proud of my ignorance and need to display it prominently. 6. Hopefully the diesel fumes will retard the brain growth of my 47 children enough so I won't have to pay for college.7. I'm glad to send as much money to the middle east as I can. The money I send there goes to pay for the weapons that have given so many kickbacks to W and Dick. Props to W!You tree huggers can all go to hell and die! I just clear cut 2 acres in my back yard for a new garage.
dustybOct 6, 2006
@da5idblacksun Considering the average VW diesel gets 50 mpg, and the next generation diesel is supposed to do 80 mpg, I think a Honda Diesel-Hybrid would be unstopable. 130 mpg anyone?
galrocOct 6, 2006
I drive an own a big SUV, but I car pool with my wife in her Taurus, usually 4 out of 5 days...What people should really be talking about is how much gas do you use per week? Someone driving that hybrid could be commuting a lot and still be using 40 gallons/week. I car pool and I might drive my SUV once/week to work and I might fill its tank every two weeks. Today, I car pooled, does anyone here car pool and did you today?The main reason I have a SUV is for recreation. I tow a 6000lb camper. There isn't a car or minivan that can tow that. Some people fly for a vacation, which uses jet fuel, some people just drive to the nearest beach. I choose to camp in a camper. We go a hundred of so miles to a camp ground, turn around and come back. It floats my boat...As far as gas prices, even at $3+/gallon, it is still cheap. If you pay $40,000 for a nice SUV, do you really care if you spend $4000/year on gas? Assuming $3/gallon, 15,000miles/year and a really bad 12mpg. $4000 could be a big deal if you buy a $10,000 car, but not a $40,000 SUV....The reason we have a fairly large sedan (not by american standards) but it still qualifies as a large sedan is for safety. Large sedans are the safest vehicles on the road followed by large (not medium, or small) SUVs. You can put your family in that civic, or yugo, but I won't. Fatality statistics:Driver deaths per million registered passenger vehicles 1-3 years old by crash type,
happyscrappyOct 7, 2006
Wow, just read the article.That vehicle is not real.You cannot remove the mechanical brakes from a car. Why? Well, because first of all, because you need to be able to stop faster than you accelerate, and regnerative braking can't do this, it would require removing energy from system faster than the drivetrain is capable of. Second, a generator type system cannot effectively slow a car on its own because the generator produces less electricity the slower you spin the input shaft (wheels). That means it's removing less energy from the system. That means that the slower the car goes, the less braking power it has. At slow speeds of 5-10mph, you have almost no braking power at all. You must use mechanical brakes to finish the job.Finally, 200-250 miles worth of all-electric range means you need a huge battery pack. The Tesla requires about $50,000 worth of batteries, this vehicle would require a bit more due to higher weight. Ultra capacitors hold even less energy.In short, this vehicle is fake, and if it were real, you couldn't afford it.
webwatchJan 28, 2008
While its true that Diesel fuel has higher energy density than Gasoline, thermodynamically too diesel cycle is more efficient that the otto cycle due to its higher compression ratio. For more info - <a class="user" href="http://www.dieselforum.org">http://www.dieselforum.org</a> and <a class="user" href="http://www.squidoo.com/diesel-car">http://www.squidoo.com/diesel-car</a>