30k is more in my price range! The one thing that I do have to say about this car company is that they know how to make a cool looking car, and add in that I don't have to fill up...goodbye gas I won't miss you.
I agree with NOFXY, however great deals can be had on new cars to make them worth putting up the extra money. Due to being a recent college grad and owning a competing product in addition to the dealer selling me the car at just above invoice, I got a brand new Ford Focus for just over 12k. A car like that will last quite some time and is probably slightly cheaper in the long haul compared to buying used (I'll be keeping it long term).
Petro engines get 30% efficiency on a lab bench. Real world gas engine performance averages about 15%, and can fall below 10% efficiency in city driving. EVs don't lose efficiency during city driving, since they don't need to idle, don't need to shift, and can even recapture braking energy.You have already seen my sources, that's not the problem. We both know I can't show you anything that will affect your mind one tiny iota.
Thats still an extra wasted hour. They should just standardize the size and interface with the car. And have stations where a machine swaps your out with a charged one. Deducting the difference of the costs of the battery and charging you for the power. Makes sense to me. That is once they get batteries small enough.
You: "...Transporting oil to to the fuel depots is much more efficient"Of course, we both know the processes of obtaining coal and oil are not directly comparable. If coal takes more energy to get from the ground, oil takes more energy to refine. As much as you dislike it when I bring up costs - and you can deny this until the cows come home - it does have relevancy as there is a strong connection to energy efficiency. This does not mean that costs = efficiency... just that there is, and must be a strong connection.You are still entirely missing my point, which is about the last transportation step - trucking fuel to thousands of service stations. This is wasted energy and additional pollution - and it is a step which is missing for electric vehicles. If you insist on including powerline losses in your EV efficiency calculations, you must also reduce the efficiency of gasoline from this last transportation step.You: "...No, you already said it's irrelevant because pollution is what matters"EXACTLY - pollution is what matters. You don't think thousands of trucks delivering gasoline to service stations pollute???You: "...If you can't admit hybrids are currently cleaner than EVs with our current electrical system, whatever, I'll take your silence as acknowledgment."I will repeat what I have said about this for the third time - this makes too little sense for me to answer. I have never encountered this particular opinion anywhere else on the internet. You will have to tell me exactly how you reached this goofy opinion before I can answer.
I figured you would make a goofy comment like that."The NRDC calculus shows that a plug-in charged from a power plant burning the dirtiest type of coal still has an overall pollution level less than a conventional gasoline car. But it would produce 11% more greenhouse gas emissions than a regular, non-plug-in hybrid, according to Luke Tonachel, vehicles analyst at the NRDC and co-author of the group's report on plug-ins. The report was produced jointly with the non-profit Electric Power Research Institute."And this was just considering plug-in hybrids, not EVs, which would be worse. So EVs cause increased greenhouse gas emissions, as well as obviously causing increased acid rain causing gases.
What? The study says plug in hybrids are worse (pollution wise) then traditional hybrids.In addition to the 'amount of pollution' the type of pollution must be considered. It's debatable whether carbon dioxide can even be considered pollution, unless you think every time you exhale you are polluting. I find it odd that you admit studies goes "both ways" when comparing traditional ICEs to EVs, but still believe it's close when comparing to hybrids. Hybrid efficiencies blow away traditional ICE and EVs running off coal plants.
All Electric Cars are back in the news again, now that gas prices are over $4 per gallon, all across the United States. I found out a lot of information on different brands, makes and models, and wanted to share my research. <a class="user" href="http://www.SpecialReport.com">http://www.SpecialReport.com</a>
dadiggydiggydocJul 1, 2008
30k is more in my price range! The one thing that I do have to say about this car company is that they know how to make a cool looking car, and add in that I don't have to fill up...goodbye gas I won't miss you.
betogonzaJul 1, 2008
Just as I finish paying for my Huge V8 Pick up.
zacharytelschowJul 1, 2008
I agree with NOFXY, however great deals can be had on new cars to make them worth putting up the extra money. Due to being a recent college grad and owning a competing product in addition to the dealer selling me the car at just above invoice, I got a brand new Ford Focus for just over 12k. A car like that will last quite some time and is probably slightly cheaper in the long haul compared to buying used (I'll be keeping it long term).
symbolismJul 1, 2008
not to mention it shares the name with one of the most influential scientists of electricities youth.
apeweekJul 2, 2008
Petro engines get 30% efficiency on a lab bench. Real world gas engine performance averages about 15%, and can fall below 10% efficiency in city driving. EVs don't lose efficiency during city driving, since they don't need to idle, don't need to shift, and can even recapture braking energy.You have already seen my sources, that's not the problem. We both know I can't show you anything that will affect your mind one tiny iota.
vassarJul 2, 2008
They have produced anything yet!(where is the Tesla Roadster?)
directrix13Jul 2, 2008
Thats still an extra wasted hour. They should just standardize the size and interface with the car. And have stations where a machine swaps your out with a charged one. Deducting the difference of the costs of the battery and charging you for the power. Makes sense to me. That is once they get batteries small enough.
apeweekJul 3, 2008
You: "...Transporting oil to to the fuel depots is much more efficient"Of course, we both know the processes of obtaining coal and oil are not directly comparable. If coal takes more energy to get from the ground, oil takes more energy to refine. As much as you dislike it when I bring up costs - and you can deny this until the cows come home - it does have relevancy as there is a strong connection to energy efficiency. This does not mean that costs = efficiency... just that there is, and must be a strong connection.You are still entirely missing my point, which is about the last transportation step - trucking fuel to thousands of service stations. This is wasted energy and additional pollution - and it is a step which is missing for electric vehicles. If you insist on including powerline losses in your EV efficiency calculations, you must also reduce the efficiency of gasoline from this last transportation step.You: "...No, you already said it's irrelevant because pollution is what matters"EXACTLY - pollution is what matters. You don't think thousands of trucks delivering gasoline to service stations pollute???You: "...If you can't admit hybrids are currently cleaner than EVs with our current electrical system, whatever, I'll take your silence as acknowledgment."I will repeat what I have said about this for the third time - this makes too little sense for me to answer. I have never encountered this particular opinion anywhere else on the internet. You will have to tell me exactly how you reached this goofy opinion before I can answer.
Closed AccountJul 3, 2008
I figured you would make a goofy comment like that."The NRDC calculus shows that a plug-in charged from a power plant burning the dirtiest type of coal still has an overall pollution level less than a conventional gasoline car. But it would produce 11% more greenhouse gas emissions than a regular, non-plug-in hybrid, according to Luke Tonachel, vehicles analyst at the NRDC and co-author of the group's report on plug-ins. The report was produced jointly with the non-profit Electric Power Research Institute."And this was just considering plug-in hybrids, not EVs, which would be worse. So EVs cause increased greenhouse gas emissions, as well as obviously causing increased acid rain causing gases.
Closed AccountJul 3, 2008
What? The study says plug in hybrids are worse (pollution wise) then traditional hybrids.In addition to the 'amount of pollution' the type of pollution must be considered. It's debatable whether carbon dioxide can even be considered pollution, unless you think every time you exhale you are polluting. I find it odd that you admit studies goes "both ways" when comparing traditional ICEs to EVs, but still believe it's close when comparing to hybrids. Hybrid efficiencies blow away traditional ICE and EVs running off coal plants.
domainutAug 1, 2008
All Electric Cars are back in the news again, now that gas prices are over $4 per gallon, all across the United States. I found out a lot of information on different brands, makes and models, and wanted to share my research. <a class="user" href="http://www.SpecialReport.com">http://www.SpecialReport.com</a>
emily1989Feb 16, 2012
Prepping your home for an electric car
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/01/21/prepping-your-home-for-electric-car/