wired.com— A startup promises to install solar panels on your roof for free, and sell you the power for pennies. Is it a revolution, or clean-energy vaporware?
Feb 21, 2007View in Crawl 4
"They pay for all the power generated, even unused power, but the company tailors each system to fit the household's power consumption."That doesn't make any sense at all. First of all, they should be selling that excess power to the local utility company, not the consumer. And I'll bet they do. Probably double-dipping, charging the consumer for the unused power and selling it to the utility at the same time. And, if the consumer is paying for something whether it's used or not, the natural reaction is to increase their consumption to get their money's worth. "What? I'm only using 68% of the energy my solar system is generating and I'm paying for 100% of that energy? Heck, if I'm gonna pay for it anyway, I may as well turn on some more lights and screw the CF bulbs. I'm gonna put a space heater on the porch."Hopefully that part was just the imaginings of a reporter who didn't understand the explanation provided by the company.
jivatmanx:"What's great about this, is it's absolute, unequivocal proof that solar power is not only efficient, effacious."It is nothing of the sort. It only proves these folks "think" their business plan will work, not that solar power is either efficient or effacious (whatever that is)."The way their model works, if they could'nt generate enough money to be cheaper than coal within a reasonable timeframe, they could'nt have a buisness."Your tenses are all wrong in that sentence. I pray you are not a native English speaker. If you are, then whomever is responsible for your education should be shot."The way their model works, if they can't generate enough money to be cheaper than coal within a reasonable timeframe, they won't continue to have a business."They can certainly have a business in the short term - until their investment capital runs out. Then they either find new suck^h^h^h^h investors or die.But for my part, I hope it works, and I'm signing up right away. I see it as a win-win situation - if it works, I get cheap power. If it doesn't work, I have a nice solar system for $500.
I did not miss the point and I know what he's saying. It's not saving the plant - it's saving ourselves and it pisses me off when the company that obviously, doesn't give a rat's as about environment and is in business of enriching itself tries to appeal to our sentimentality while using the same marketing tactic that everybody else uses. Phrases that mislead and get people into long term contracts on a service that doesn't justify the cost and for all we know, could be a pyramid scheme or a ripoff at the end of the day. Solar panels are getting cheaper. They say the energy cost is guaranteed not to go up. I see it as "guaranteed not to go down" regardless of the fact solar panels are getting cheaper every year. They say installation is free, but there's a deposit of $500 that'll be returned at the end of the contract term, which is around 25 years when it's worth a hamburger and a coke. All of the sudden, one company has the answer to the eternal question: "Why are we here!" Apparently it's so we could buy solar panels from a guy sitting in his chair, reading off a teleprompter. I support the ideas, but I do not support the methods and how people are now trying to make a quick buck off the planet-saving business. Do cost analysis. Do research on projected costs of solar and alternative sources of energy over the next 25 years. Listen to the evasive language the ad uses. If it was a new miracle knife that cuts aluminum cans, you'd be laughing at the screen, but solar power?! No-o-o! Who cares if I get cheated, it's for a good cause! At least I'll feel better about myself at the end. I did the right thing for the planet. I use wind turbines. Where I live it's cloudy most of the time, due to bad weather, but is also windy. I built a generation plant for about $2000 that supplies enough power to run 900W worth of appliances 24 hours straight (which is never even the case). Instead of using a fridge, I buy non-perishable goods. I do my part in saving the environment. I support the cause, but I hate those that see it as a way of profiting off our sentimentality. I suggest investing $500 deposit into an electrical engineering course instead. At least then you'll have an idea of what's worth what and maybe will be able to spend the rest of your money wisely.
True. But (don't you just love the "buts" of life?):(1) The system is sized for your ANNUAL maximum need... and they base that on your past 3 years of electric consumption. Should be pretty-well shielded from being over-sized for your needs. Plus, through continuous monitoring of your usage, they will re-size your solar array and change your contract to make sure you're not getting "the shaft".(2) Your contract locks you in to a guaranteed per kWh electric rate for the duration of the contract (1, 5 or 25 years). I have yet to see my electric rate go DOWN, so that means over time you would continue to save more and more money. Of course, if there is some radical break-through in renewable energy that drops rates below your contract rate, you're screwed. But what are the odds of that?
According to the details on their site, they WILL upgrade your system if a breakthrough like that occurs. The contract claims to "future-proof" you from major advances like that.Also, instead of spending $20-70k installing your own system, you're effectively "leasing" one instead. If something better comes along (like a compact nuclear fusion reactor that runs on household garbage ala "Back to the Future"!), all you're out would be the $500 deposit. Certainly better than being out the $20-70k! :)
Don't blame Citizenre... blame your state government and power companies. The reason they're not offering the program in SC is because they don't offer Net-Metering laws (the process of allowing you to sell energy back to your power company).Call your representatives and get their butts in action.
jtownFeb 21, 2007
"They pay for all the power generated, even unused power, but the company tailors each system to fit the household's power consumption."That doesn't make any sense at all. First of all, they should be selling that excess power to the local utility company, not the consumer. And I'll bet they do. Probably double-dipping, charging the consumer for the unused power and selling it to the utility at the same time. And, if the consumer is paying for something whether it's used or not, the natural reaction is to increase their consumption to get their money's worth. "What? I'm only using 68% of the energy my solar system is generating and I'm paying for 100% of that energy? Heck, if I'm gonna pay for it anyway, I may as well turn on some more lights and screw the CF bulbs. I'm gonna put a space heater on the porch."Hopefully that part was just the imaginings of a reporter who didn't understand the explanation provided by the company.
mrpeachFeb 22, 2007
jivatmanx:"What's great about this, is it's absolute, unequivocal proof that solar power is not only efficient, effacious."It is nothing of the sort. It only proves these folks "think" their business plan will work, not that solar power is either efficient or effacious (whatever that is)."The way their model works, if they could'nt generate enough money to be cheaper than coal within a reasonable timeframe, they could'nt have a buisness."Your tenses are all wrong in that sentence. I pray you are not a native English speaker. If you are, then whomever is responsible for your education should be shot."The way their model works, if they can't generate enough money to be cheaper than coal within a reasonable timeframe, they won't continue to have a business."They can certainly have a business in the short term - until their investment capital runs out. Then they either find new suck^h^h^h^h investors or die.But for my part, I hope it works, and I'm signing up right away. I see it as a win-win situation - if it works, I get cheap power. If it doesn't work, I have a nice solar system for $500.
apaxiFeb 22, 2007
It would be great if I could sign up for this, but apparently South Carolina is no longer one of the 50 states. Quality operation.
bestenemyFeb 22, 2007
I did not miss the point and I know what he's saying. It's not saving the plant - it's saving ourselves and it pisses me off when the company that obviously, doesn't give a rat's as about environment and is in business of enriching itself tries to appeal to our sentimentality while using the same marketing tactic that everybody else uses. Phrases that mislead and get people into long term contracts on a service that doesn't justify the cost and for all we know, could be a pyramid scheme or a ripoff at the end of the day. Solar panels are getting cheaper. They say the energy cost is guaranteed not to go up. I see it as "guaranteed not to go down" regardless of the fact solar panels are getting cheaper every year. They say installation is free, but there's a deposit of $500 that'll be returned at the end of the contract term, which is around 25 years when it's worth a hamburger and a coke. All of the sudden, one company has the answer to the eternal question: "Why are we here!" Apparently it's so we could buy solar panels from a guy sitting in his chair, reading off a teleprompter. I support the ideas, but I do not support the methods and how people are now trying to make a quick buck off the planet-saving business. Do cost analysis. Do research on projected costs of solar and alternative sources of energy over the next 25 years. Listen to the evasive language the ad uses. If it was a new miracle knife that cuts aluminum cans, you'd be laughing at the screen, but solar power?! No-o-o! Who cares if I get cheated, it's for a good cause! At least I'll feel better about myself at the end. I did the right thing for the planet. I use wind turbines. Where I live it's cloudy most of the time, due to bad weather, but is also windy. I built a generation plant for about $2000 that supplies enough power to run 900W worth of appliances 24 hours straight (which is never even the case). Instead of using a fridge, I buy non-perishable goods. I do my part in saving the environment. I support the cause, but I hate those that see it as a way of profiting off our sentimentality. I suggest investing $500 deposit into an electrical engineering course instead. At least then you'll have an idea of what's worth what and maybe will be able to spend the rest of your money wisely.
bcboundersFeb 23, 2007
True. But (don't you just love the "buts" of life?):(1) The system is sized for your ANNUAL maximum need... and they base that on your past 3 years of electric consumption. Should be pretty-well shielded from being over-sized for your needs. Plus, through continuous monitoring of your usage, they will re-size your solar array and change your contract to make sure you're not getting "the shaft".(2) Your contract locks you in to a guaranteed per kWh electric rate for the duration of the contract (1, 5 or 25 years). I have yet to see my electric rate go DOWN, so that means over time you would continue to save more and more money. Of course, if there is some radical break-through in renewable energy that drops rates below your contract rate, you're screwed. But what are the odds of that?
bcboundersFeb 23, 2007
According to the details on their site, they WILL upgrade your system if a breakthrough like that occurs. The contract claims to "future-proof" you from major advances like that.Also, instead of spending $20-70k installing your own system, you're effectively "leasing" one instead. If something better comes along (like a compact nuclear fusion reactor that runs on household garbage ala "Back to the Future"!), all you're out would be the $500 deposit. Certainly better than being out the $20-70k! :)
bcboundersFeb 23, 2007
Don't blame Citizenre... blame your state government and power companies. The reason they're not offering the program in SC is because they don't offer Net-Metering laws (the process of allowing you to sell energy back to your power company).Call your representatives and get their butts in action.