voices.washingtonpost.com— Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.
Oct 16, 2008View in Crawl 4
Actually, we now know that Samuel Joe Wurzelbacher is a registered Republican. He is not licensed as a plumber. Court record from a divorced showed that he made $40K annually. So Joe would qualify for a bigger tax cut under Obama.Court records also show he owes taxes.He also is very unlikely to purchase a business that makes $250K profit (conveniently at Obama's threshold for higher taxes) since he would need $1 million using the common 4:1 rule + money to purchase the assets. Joe clearly does not have that much money and banks is in no condition to lend right now (nor will they after finding out about his tax liens).Oh, he also hates Social Security and loves the war in Iraq.Joe is starting to sound like Karl Rove to me.
The voice of reason amidst a sea of people looking for a someone to take care of them!. This is America. A place founded on the principals, you work hard and you can own your own home, build a business, and have free speech. Give Joe a Break. This is the American Dream. He is entitled to ask a question of someone running for office. Free Speech.? RememberJoe the plumber got a lot of attention on debate night. And, I hope Americans get the point. Joe is the man with the American Dream, which has driven this country, to own their own business and own their own home. He is not a wealthy CEO but a hardworking man trying to get his business off the ground. My brother is a small businessman with a plumbing business which he started about 20 years ago. He works hard, stands behind his work and employs about 10 employees at this point. This is what America is all about. And, I hope voters realize that Obama will hurt the small business man, not help him. If Joe the Plumber is forced to provide health care for his employee's he would probably have to lay off some employees. And, Obama's plan would raise his taxes. Many Americans have not had the opportunity to travel. I was in France this past summer. I would not want to get sick in Europe. I love France. But, socialized medicine is sub-standard. More government control of our Health Care, or our Banking System moves us closer to Big Brother and George Orwell's story "1984". We need less government control, not more. Good Luck to you Joe.
Excerpt from :<a class="user" href="http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/spread-the-weal.html">http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/sp ...</a>Attached is the ACTUAL exchange that Obama had with 'Joe', word for word, not just the "Spread the Weath" soundbite that the McCain campaign has blasted all over the airwaves and what seems to be the limit of what some of the people writing comments here have seen. I won't make any comments here but you all owe it to yourself to read the full story of exactly what Obama was saying in this exchange: FTA:-------------Outside Toledo, Ohio, on Sunday, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was approached by plumber Joe Wurzelbacher, a big, bald man with a goatee who asked Obama if he believes in the American dream."I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year," Wurzelbacher said. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"Obama said, "First off, you would get a 50% tax credit so you'd get a tax cut for your healthcare costs.. if your revenue is above 250 then from 250 down, your taxes are going to stay the same. It is true that from 250 up from 250 300 or so, so for that additional amount, you?d go from 36 to 39%, which is what it was under Bill Clinton. And the reason why we?re doing that is because 95% of small businesses make less than 250. So what I want to do is give them a tax cut. I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut. And so what we?re doing is, we are saying that folks who make more than 250 that that marginal amount above 250 they?re gonna be taxed at a 39 instead of a 36% rate.Responded Wurzelbacher, "the reason I ask you about the American dream, I mean I've worked hard. I'm a plumber. I work 10-12 hours a day and I'm buying this company and I'm going to continue working that way. I'm getting taxed more and more while fulfilling the American dream.""Well," said Obama, "here's a way of thinking about it. How long have been a plumber?"Wurzelbacher said 15 years.Obama says, Over the last 15 years, when you weren?t making 250, you would have been given a tax cut from me, so you?d actually have more money, which means you would have saved more, which means you would have gotten to the point where you could build your small business quicker than under the current tax code. So there are two ways of looking at it I mean one way of looking at it is, now that you?ve become more successful through hard work you don?t want to be taxed as much.Exactly," Wurzelbacher said.Obama continued, But another way of looking at it is 95% of folks who are making less than 250, they may be working hard too, but they?re being taxed at a higher rate than they would be under mine. So what I?m doing is, put yourself back 10 years ago when you were only making whatever, 60 or 70. Under my tax plan you would be keeping more of your paycheck, you?d be paying lower taxes, which means you would have savedNow look, nobody likes high taxes.""No," said Wurzelbacher."Of course not," said Obama. "But what?s happened is that we end up we?ve cut taxes a lot for folks like me who make a lot more than 250. We haven?t given a break to folks who make less, and as a consequence, the average wage and income for ordinary folks, the vast majority of Americans, has actually gone down over the last eight years. So all I want to do is I?ve got a tax cut. The only thing that changes, is I?m gonna cut taxes a little bit more for the folks who are most in need and for the 5% of the folks who are doing very well - even though they?ve been working hard and I appreciate that I just want to make sure they?re paying a little bit more in order to pay for those other tax cuts. Now, I respect the disagreement. I just want you to be clear it?s not that I want to punish your success I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they?ve got a chance at success too.Wurzelbacher said it seemed as though Obama might support a flat tax.Obama says, you know, I would be open to it except here?s the problem with a flat tax is that if you actually put a flat tax together, in order for it to work and replace all the revenue that we?ve got, you?d probably end up having to make it like about a 40% sales tax. I mean that?s the value added, making it up. Now some people say 23 or 25, but in truth when you add up all the revenue that would need to be raised, you?d have to slap on a whole bunch of sales taxes on. And I do believe for folks like me who have worked hard, but frankly also been lucky, I don?t mind paying just a little bit more than the waitress that I just met over there who?s things are slow and she can barely make the rent."Obama said, "My attitude is that if the economy?s good for folks from the bottom up, it?s gonna be good for everybody. If you?ve got a plumbing business, you?re gonna be better off if you?re gonna be better off if you?ve got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you, and right now everybody?s so pinched that business is bad for everybody and I think when you spread the wealth around, it?s good for everybody."That's the key moment McCain is jumping out"when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody.""But listen," Obama said, shaking Wurzelbacher's hand, "I respect what you do and I respect your question, and even if I don?t get your vote, I?m still gonna be working hard on your behalf, because small businesses are what creates jobs in this country and I want to encourage it.
Enough label-pasting, mr. fistfight. I've read both McCain and Obama's economic proposals. Clearly Wurzelbacher didn't, and it appears many here didn't either. You want to bring up dirt on any politician, there's plenty to go around for all of them. Guilt by association simply doesn't hold up any more for Obama than it does for all the skeletons McCain has in his closet.
Not a bad idea given that consumer spending accounts for approximately 70% of the GDP of the USA and that the highest-income Americans hold the majority of their money in offshore tax havens and non-taxable assets. When you work the numbers, taking into account all the loopholes in current tax code, you will realize that the real effect of implementing a more progressive tax rate is a fair playing field for all Americans. Is it bad to want to give everyone an equal shot at success?Recall also that another Redistributionist, current president Bush, give out some people $300 tax rebates and others who earned too much nothing at all in the last stimulous package. Taking an objective view based on actual policy study make the repeated extreme right-wing attacks on Obama as being "liberal" and "redistributionist" and "socialist" to be totally ridiculous. Read both candidate's policies and it's plainly obvious that McCain's policies are classic trickle-down theory, only this time around the money doesn't go to job-creating industries. One can't talk about small government at the same time proposing to expand it. One can't talk about balancing the budget and then propose spending plans that exceed Obama's in cost by a long shot! If you are worrying about wealth redistribution, then look at the platforms, not some "plumber" who is being used by one political party for their character assassination campaign.
Spectral... you are an idiot. You don't know anything except minimum wage and living in your mother's basement. The Obama economy has started, and I hope you lose your little jackoff job, creep. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COMING ECONOMY! f**kWAD!
insightfulOct 16, 2008
Actually, we now know that Samuel Joe Wurzelbacher is a registered Republican. He is not licensed as a plumber. Court record from a divorced showed that he made $40K annually. So Joe would qualify for a bigger tax cut under Obama.Court records also show he owes taxes.He also is very unlikely to purchase a business that makes $250K profit (conveniently at Obama's threshold for higher taxes) since he would need $1 million using the common 4:1 rule + money to purchase the assets. Joe clearly does not have that much money and banks is in no condition to lend right now (nor will they after finding out about his tax liens).Oh, he also hates Social Security and loves the war in Iraq.Joe is starting to sound like Karl Rove to me.
donnasuelouise1Oct 19, 2008
The voice of reason amidst a sea of people looking for a someone to take care of them!. This is America. A place founded on the principals, you work hard and you can own your own home, build a business, and have free speech. Give Joe a Break. This is the American Dream. He is entitled to ask a question of someone running for office. Free Speech.? RememberJoe the plumber got a lot of attention on debate night. And, I hope Americans get the point. Joe is the man with the American Dream, which has driven this country, to own their own business and own their own home. He is not a wealthy CEO but a hardworking man trying to get his business off the ground. My brother is a small businessman with a plumbing business which he started about 20 years ago. He works hard, stands behind his work and employs about 10 employees at this point. This is what America is all about. And, I hope voters realize that Obama will hurt the small business man, not help him. If Joe the Plumber is forced to provide health care for his employee's he would probably have to lay off some employees. And, Obama's plan would raise his taxes. Many Americans have not had the opportunity to travel. I was in France this past summer. I would not want to get sick in Europe. I love France. But, socialized medicine is sub-standard. More government control of our Health Care, or our Banking System moves us closer to Big Brother and George Orwell's story "1984". We need less government control, not more. Good Luck to you Joe.
markglOct 21, 2008
what lies?
col381Oct 29, 2008
Excerpt from :<a class="user" href="http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/spread-the-weal.html">http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/sp ...</a>Attached is the ACTUAL exchange that Obama had with 'Joe', word for word, not just the "Spread the Weath" soundbite that the McCain campaign has blasted all over the airwaves and what seems to be the limit of what some of the people writing comments here have seen. I won't make any comments here but you all owe it to yourself to read the full story of exactly what Obama was saying in this exchange: FTA:-------------Outside Toledo, Ohio, on Sunday, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was approached by plumber Joe Wurzelbacher, a big, bald man with a goatee who asked Obama if he believes in the American dream."I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year," Wurzelbacher said. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"Obama said, "First off, you would get a 50% tax credit so you'd get a tax cut for your healthcare costs.. if your revenue is above 250 then from 250 down, your taxes are going to stay the same. It is true that from 250 up from 250 300 or so, so for that additional amount, you?d go from 36 to 39%, which is what it was under Bill Clinton. And the reason why we?re doing that is because 95% of small businesses make less than 250. So what I want to do is give them a tax cut. I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut. And so what we?re doing is, we are saying that folks who make more than 250 that that marginal amount above 250 they?re gonna be taxed at a 39 instead of a 36% rate.Responded Wurzelbacher, "the reason I ask you about the American dream, I mean I've worked hard. I'm a plumber. I work 10-12 hours a day and I'm buying this company and I'm going to continue working that way. I'm getting taxed more and more while fulfilling the American dream.""Well," said Obama, "here's a way of thinking about it. How long have been a plumber?"Wurzelbacher said 15 years.Obama says, Over the last 15 years, when you weren?t making 250, you would have been given a tax cut from me, so you?d actually have more money, which means you would have saved more, which means you would have gotten to the point where you could build your small business quicker than under the current tax code. So there are two ways of looking at it I mean one way of looking at it is, now that you?ve become more successful through hard work you don?t want to be taxed as much.Exactly," Wurzelbacher said.Obama continued, But another way of looking at it is 95% of folks who are making less than 250, they may be working hard too, but they?re being taxed at a higher rate than they would be under mine. So what I?m doing is, put yourself back 10 years ago when you were only making whatever, 60 or 70. Under my tax plan you would be keeping more of your paycheck, you?d be paying lower taxes, which means you would have savedNow look, nobody likes high taxes.""No," said Wurzelbacher."Of course not," said Obama. "But what?s happened is that we end up we?ve cut taxes a lot for folks like me who make a lot more than 250. We haven?t given a break to folks who make less, and as a consequence, the average wage and income for ordinary folks, the vast majority of Americans, has actually gone down over the last eight years. So all I want to do is I?ve got a tax cut. The only thing that changes, is I?m gonna cut taxes a little bit more for the folks who are most in need and for the 5% of the folks who are doing very well - even though they?ve been working hard and I appreciate that I just want to make sure they?re paying a little bit more in order to pay for those other tax cuts. Now, I respect the disagreement. I just want you to be clear it?s not that I want to punish your success I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they?ve got a chance at success too.Wurzelbacher said it seemed as though Obama might support a flat tax.Obama says, you know, I would be open to it except here?s the problem with a flat tax is that if you actually put a flat tax together, in order for it to work and replace all the revenue that we?ve got, you?d probably end up having to make it like about a 40% sales tax. I mean that?s the value added, making it up. Now some people say 23 or 25, but in truth when you add up all the revenue that would need to be raised, you?d have to slap on a whole bunch of sales taxes on. And I do believe for folks like me who have worked hard, but frankly also been lucky, I don?t mind paying just a little bit more than the waitress that I just met over there who?s things are slow and she can barely make the rent."Obama said, "My attitude is that if the economy?s good for folks from the bottom up, it?s gonna be good for everybody. If you?ve got a plumbing business, you?re gonna be better off if you?re gonna be better off if you?ve got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you, and right now everybody?s so pinched that business is bad for everybody and I think when you spread the wealth around, it?s good for everybody."That's the key moment McCain is jumping out"when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody.""But listen," Obama said, shaking Wurzelbacher's hand, "I respect what you do and I respect your question, and even if I don?t get your vote, I?m still gonna be working hard on your behalf, because small businesses are what creates jobs in this country and I want to encourage it.
digguselessNov 1, 2008
Enough label-pasting, mr. fistfight. I've read both McCain and Obama's economic proposals. Clearly Wurzelbacher didn't, and it appears many here didn't either. You want to bring up dirt on any politician, there's plenty to go around for all of them. Guilt by association simply doesn't hold up any more for Obama than it does for all the skeletons McCain has in his closet.
digguselessNov 1, 2008
Not a bad idea given that consumer spending accounts for approximately 70% of the GDP of the USA and that the highest-income Americans hold the majority of their money in offshore tax havens and non-taxable assets. When you work the numbers, taking into account all the loopholes in current tax code, you will realize that the real effect of implementing a more progressive tax rate is a fair playing field for all Americans. Is it bad to want to give everyone an equal shot at success?Recall also that another Redistributionist, current president Bush, give out some people $300 tax rebates and others who earned too much nothing at all in the last stimulous package. Taking an objective view based on actual policy study make the repeated extreme right-wing attacks on Obama as being "liberal" and "redistributionist" and "socialist" to be totally ridiculous. Read both candidate's policies and it's plainly obvious that McCain's policies are classic trickle-down theory, only this time around the money doesn't go to job-creating industries. One can't talk about small government at the same time proposing to expand it. One can't talk about balancing the budget and then propose spending plans that exceed Obama's in cost by a long shot! If you are worrying about wealth redistribution, then look at the platforms, not some "plumber" who is being used by one political party for their character assassination campaign.
uniquelyevilNov 2, 2008
Are you freakin' serious? -_-;
Closed AccountNov 24, 2008
Spectral... you are an idiot. You don't know anything except minimum wage and living in your mother's basement. The Obama economy has started, and I hope you lose your little jackoff job, creep. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COMING ECONOMY! f**kWAD!