"Yikes, don't read much do you?"You have no idea. I would say however that it is the quality of one's reading (and research) that matters more than the quantity. More garbage never helps. If you disagree with me about FDR, I would suggest that your research needs some help. His policies dragged America and the economy down. The entire rest of your post is a huge stretch that does nothing to add to my own admission that infrastructure is vitally important. That isn't the issue here. The question is whether infrastructure spending is better for the economy in the short term than private sector production spending. The obvious and factual answer is that in the short term, infrastructure is a net loss. Your assessment of the cause of the industrial revolution is as asinine and limited in understanding as your assessment of FDR. Have you never read anything other than your high school history book? You should try it sometime. FYI - I am not a Republican. I vote 3rd party. I prefer to think for myself. I like facts, not ideologies, which is why I disliked both McCain and Obama. Also why I dislike FDR and Bush. You should try looking at facts sometime as well while you are reading non-ideologically driven history books. Pro tip: Read books written at the time. They tend to be more correct and less slanted to current perceptions.
"FDR is ranked the third most popular president by academic historians next to Lincoln and Washington. He is the sixth most admired person of the twentieth century by American citizens."Which means what exactly? How does that prove your point or disprove mine? Economically speaking, FDR was terrible for this country. "Even the most staunch critics of his policies can admit that his action helped a lot of Americans."Yes, his actions helped a lot of Americans. That is a numbers game though and not related to what I said. Helping a large number of Americans and doing something beneficial for the economy or the country as a whole are separate issues. For example, are you aware that the largest debt that our country has (and growing more so every year) is the Social Security policy that FDR instituted? To help some at the expense of the whole is not good for the whole. Unemployment and welfare are other great examples of this. They help some, but are a net drag. They encourage people not to work. That is a losing prospect.What you said -"And what's worse is your hypocrisy to go so far as to say you have no ideology."What I said - "I like facts, not ideologies, which is why I disliked both McCain and Obama. Also why I dislike FDR and Bush."I did not say I have no ideology. I said I prefer facts to ideologies (which apparently you do not). I am not an ideologue. Everyone has an ideology, but I do not let mine blind me. I am conservative, but do not assume that because someone is a conservative that they must have done a good job. I don't dislike FDR because he was extreme left, I dislike him because his policies were horrendous. As were Bush's (in a different context). Same goes for Clinton and Obama and Bush senior and even Lincoln to a certain extent. I refuse to let others popular opinions define my own. I don't care who people like and who historians rate as "the best". I care for how they actually did and look at it in context of both their time and how it impacts us now (on both counts FDR loses). "Railroads were in fact one of many important innovations that contributed to the IR. You have twisted the comments around now. "If I did twist it I apologize. That was not my intent. I am not disputing that railroads helped with the IR. Much infrastructure needed to be in place for the IR to take place. In fact, in every post I have stated that infrastructure is important. It is necessary in fact for industry and economy to work. We do not disagree on this point. You seem to be completely missing my point though. The railroad itself, like the bridge I first used, does not actually produce anything. It is an enabler, but it does not produce. A road is infrastructure. A car is industry. The road is necessary, but after it is made, it does not produce more jobs or call for more materials. Its effect on the economy has ended. The cars that use it continue to produce jobs and call for materials and have a far greater impact on the economy as a whole. The economy relies on the car industry more than it does upon road improvement.In fact, this next statement proves my point - "The lack of private sector spending is a large part of the economic slowdown in the first place."Yes, my point exactly. I suspect that you do not understand what constitutes private and public sectors. Infrastructure is public spending, i.e. government. Private sector is the car industry (or it used to be before GM became Government Motors). A lack of investment in the private industry is part of what caused the economic slowdown. In order to correct this, Obama's plan (and Bush before him) is to spend more in the public sector. FDR tried the same thing. It didn't work then and it is not working now.Look, son, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. You may read every day (so what?) but as I stated, if what you read is garbage it doesn't really matter. You seem to worship FDR (and probably Obama) and yet accuse me of being close minded. I hold no one sacred and am willing to admit that anyone could have done some good. FDR did do some good in his term. On balance though, the harm he did far outweighs it. He made people dependent on their government, something which is still dragging our country down today (Katrina anyone?). If you wish to have an argument and prove your point it would do you good to actually answer the points raised. You have yet to show that FDR did a good job other than opinion polls (like those matter - facts, not ideologies, remember) and you also completely failed to show that infrastructure produces anything. Let me put it to you this way. Which produces something - the building at Redmond or the company that resides in it?Save your ideology for your like minded friends. You have no facts and seek only to cast aspersions on me. You have contributed nothing to this conversation and have only shown the shallowness of your own knowledge. Try reading something longer than a newspaper article on a daily basis.
Ridiculous. Embarrassing for Americans the world over. I will not buy into your foolishness when you have expressed your inability to look at things with an open mind. How could my details possibly mean any more than all the statistical data and peer reviewed research that you refuse to read. As a free market worshiper you of all people should understand that the hard work that goes into producing something is just as important as the product itself. You don't get something for nothing. It's disgraceful that you can so easily negate the products of hard working Americans in order to make things simple in your mind. That building at Redmond was built and produced by hard working men and women who are no less American than the people inside it.
If any one institution can shake the very foundation of change in this country, in an unimaginably horrible, obese way, it's Denny's. If given the chance, I would have stopped our dear President Obama from entering, much as one would jump in front of a sniper's bullet. Please, dear god almighty, let President Obama forget the abhorrent things that happened within and continue to lead us into a new America free of stupid rednecks, etc!
denominator88Jun 10, 2009
I worked for Denny's for 2 years when I was in high school. That pretty much hit the nail on the head.
taikyokukenJun 10, 2009
No, but seriously. There are some embarrassing f**king morons in this country.
stopthelootingJun 10, 2009
The last sentence of my post is aimed at people like you.
plancktimeJun 10, 2009
"Yikes, don't read much do you?"You have no idea. I would say however that it is the quality of one's reading (and research) that matters more than the quantity. More garbage never helps. If you disagree with me about FDR, I would suggest that your research needs some help. His policies dragged America and the economy down. The entire rest of your post is a huge stretch that does nothing to add to my own admission that infrastructure is vitally important. That isn't the issue here. The question is whether infrastructure spending is better for the economy in the short term than private sector production spending. The obvious and factual answer is that in the short term, infrastructure is a net loss. Your assessment of the cause of the industrial revolution is as asinine and limited in understanding as your assessment of FDR. Have you never read anything other than your high school history book? You should try it sometime. FYI - I am not a Republican. I vote 3rd party. I prefer to think for myself. I like facts, not ideologies, which is why I disliked both McCain and Obama. Also why I dislike FDR and Bush. You should try looking at facts sometime as well while you are reading non-ideologically driven history books. Pro tip: Read books written at the time. They tend to be more correct and less slanted to current perceptions.
plancktimeJun 10, 2009
"FDR is ranked the third most popular president by academic historians next to Lincoln and Washington. He is the sixth most admired person of the twentieth century by American citizens."Which means what exactly? How does that prove your point or disprove mine? Economically speaking, FDR was terrible for this country. "Even the most staunch critics of his policies can admit that his action helped a lot of Americans."Yes, his actions helped a lot of Americans. That is a numbers game though and not related to what I said. Helping a large number of Americans and doing something beneficial for the economy or the country as a whole are separate issues. For example, are you aware that the largest debt that our country has (and growing more so every year) is the Social Security policy that FDR instituted? To help some at the expense of the whole is not good for the whole. Unemployment and welfare are other great examples of this. They help some, but are a net drag. They encourage people not to work. That is a losing prospect.What you said -"And what's worse is your hypocrisy to go so far as to say you have no ideology."What I said - "I like facts, not ideologies, which is why I disliked both McCain and Obama. Also why I dislike FDR and Bush."I did not say I have no ideology. I said I prefer facts to ideologies (which apparently you do not). I am not an ideologue. Everyone has an ideology, but I do not let mine blind me. I am conservative, but do not assume that because someone is a conservative that they must have done a good job. I don't dislike FDR because he was extreme left, I dislike him because his policies were horrendous. As were Bush's (in a different context). Same goes for Clinton and Obama and Bush senior and even Lincoln to a certain extent. I refuse to let others popular opinions define my own. I don't care who people like and who historians rate as "the best". I care for how they actually did and look at it in context of both their time and how it impacts us now (on both counts FDR loses). "Railroads were in fact one of many important innovations that contributed to the IR. You have twisted the comments around now. "If I did twist it I apologize. That was not my intent. I am not disputing that railroads helped with the IR. Much infrastructure needed to be in place for the IR to take place. In fact, in every post I have stated that infrastructure is important. It is necessary in fact for industry and economy to work. We do not disagree on this point. You seem to be completely missing my point though. The railroad itself, like the bridge I first used, does not actually produce anything. It is an enabler, but it does not produce. A road is infrastructure. A car is industry. The road is necessary, but after it is made, it does not produce more jobs or call for more materials. Its effect on the economy has ended. The cars that use it continue to produce jobs and call for materials and have a far greater impact on the economy as a whole. The economy relies on the car industry more than it does upon road improvement.In fact, this next statement proves my point - "The lack of private sector spending is a large part of the economic slowdown in the first place."Yes, my point exactly. I suspect that you do not understand what constitutes private and public sectors. Infrastructure is public spending, i.e. government. Private sector is the car industry (or it used to be before GM became Government Motors). A lack of investment in the private industry is part of what caused the economic slowdown. In order to correct this, Obama's plan (and Bush before him) is to spend more in the public sector. FDR tried the same thing. It didn't work then and it is not working now.Look, son, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. You may read every day (so what?) but as I stated, if what you read is garbage it doesn't really matter. You seem to worship FDR (and probably Obama) and yet accuse me of being close minded. I hold no one sacred and am willing to admit that anyone could have done some good. FDR did do some good in his term. On balance though, the harm he did far outweighs it. He made people dependent on their government, something which is still dragging our country down today (Katrina anyone?). If you wish to have an argument and prove your point it would do you good to actually answer the points raised. You have yet to show that FDR did a good job other than opinion polls (like those matter - facts, not ideologies, remember) and you also completely failed to show that infrastructure produces anything. Let me put it to you this way. Which produces something - the building at Redmond or the company that resides in it?Save your ideology for your like minded friends. You have no facts and seek only to cast aspersions on me. You have contributed nothing to this conversation and have only shown the shallowness of your own knowledge. Try reading something longer than a newspaper article on a daily basis.
s0krat3z_Jun 10, 2009
Ridiculous. Embarrassing for Americans the world over. I will not buy into your foolishness when you have expressed your inability to look at things with an open mind. How could my details possibly mean any more than all the statistical data and peer reviewed research that you refuse to read. As a free market worshiper you of all people should understand that the hard work that goes into producing something is just as important as the product itself. You don't get something for nothing. It's disgraceful that you can so easily negate the products of hard working Americans in order to make things simple in your mind. That building at Redmond was built and produced by hard working men and women who are no less American than the people inside it.
alexcrossJun 11, 2009
I was being sarcastic.
forcemarineJun 11, 2009
If any one institution can shake the very foundation of change in this country, in an unimaginably horrible, obese way, it's Denny's. If given the chance, I would have stopped our dear President Obama from entering, much as one would jump in front of a sniper's bullet. Please, dear god almighty, let President Obama forget the abhorrent things that happened within and continue to lead us into a new America free of stupid rednecks, etc!
piieerrrreeJun 11, 2009
so then yes?