arstechnica.com— "Another arrest has been made over someone leeching a WiFi network without authorization, this time in Michigan."
May 22, 2007View in Crawl 4
"Incorrect. Pay attention carefully. You cannot take the book unless you have a library card. The library card is your Authorization to take the book and the Term of Service(TOS) is that you must return it within certain days. These are separate things."That's where you are wrong. Don't confuse procedure and process with authorization. Library cards are just part of the process of tracking who lent out stuff to what. It is specifically NOT authorization. The library (and all the books that are in it) belong to the collective public. They could just as easily use the "honour system" or a simple signout sheet. In your argument, who is granting authorization in these alternate processes? The piece of paper that's the signout sheet? My own moral code?Authorization is therefore NOT mandatory. "It is illegal to walk into the library to take the book if you don't have a library card even if the front door of the library is open and free for people to walk in."I can walk into a library, get a pile of books off the shelf, get a table, and stare at the books all day long (all while sitting in air conditioning) . I am costing the library money. I am depriving other users of those resources. I can get any and all the information I want, either by remembering it, writing it down, photocopying or otherwise using the resources as I want then walk out the front door. I can do all this WITHOUT EVER HAVING BEEN AUTHORIZED TO DO SO either explicitly or implicitly.Your analogy is again proven wrong.Bottom line: Your analogy is unworkable. You need to sit down and shut up now. The grownups are talking.
yea seriously i really hate cops and the District Attourney in this country because they try to screw you over with ignorant laws instead of protecting their citizens.. there are people actually doing illegal activites in this country that actually harms other people. If you dont hurt anyone than it really shouldnt be a crime.
Sadly you are mistaken. The library card work on two folds. Indeed it does use as a process of tracking. However it is also used as an authorization. If the library system requires a library card, I very much doubt you could write a short note that say "Borrowed, bring back on monday, address at the bottom...." Your sign out sheet has to be approved before you can take the book. Thus authorization is mandatory. Furthermore, the book belongs to the library and/or the local government, not the individuals. Go and look up the meaning of ownership. You cannot enter the library and exclaimed that you have part ownership of this book and are entitle to take it and do with it as you wish."I can walk into a library, get a pile of books off the shelf, get a table, and stare at the books all day long (all while sitting in air conditioning) . I am costing the library money. I am depriving other users of those resources. I can get any and all the information I want, either by remembering it, writing it down, photocopying or otherwise using the resources as I want then walk out the front door. I can do all this WITHOUT EVER HAVING BEEN AUTHORIZED TO DO SO either explicitly or implicitly." The answer is already in your argument. "You walked into the library." This mean you are already inside the jurisdiction of the library, of course you can do whatever you want. However, it is a different story if you walk into the library, take a book without borrowing, go outside and read the book. You would fine right on the spot. Why? the people in the library does not authorize you or acknowledge you taking the book. The fact that you cost the library does not matter because you are already in the library and use its resources as it is expected. Relating back to the article, this would be the same if you walk into the shop, buy a coffee sit down and use your wireless internet access, costing the shop money and depriving others of resources. But this is ok why? because the shop owner already approved, acknowledge and authorize you to do that.I sure wish some people on digg would actually think first before jumping up and down as soon as they think a little of their right is trampled upon. I know it is hard to make a distinction but this guy clearly knew what he did was illegal.
@daftman:"this guy clearly knew what he did was illegal."FTA: ``Peterson, not realizing that what he was doing was (at least) ethically questionable, told the officer exactly what he was doing. "I knew that the Union Street had WiFi. I just went down and checked my e-mail and didn't see a problem with that," Peterson told a reporter.''The article disagrees with you, too.
"Sadly you are mistaken. The library card work on two folds. Indeed it does use as a process of tracking. However it is also used as an authorization."Really? My grade school library worked on the honour system. That is a library right? No authorization right? So how can you claim that authorization is mandatory? Mandatory how? What law makes it mandatory? What is the penalty of breaking this law? Just admit that you are wrong on this one..."The answer is already in your argument. "You walked into the library." This mean you are already inside the jurisdiction of the library, of course you can do whatever you want. However, it is a different story if you walk into the library, take a book without borrowing, go outside and read the book."Again, I'll refer you to my grade school library. No cards. No authorization. Students were encouraged to take a book out at recess. Again you are wrong. "Relating back to the article, this would be the same if you walk into the shop, buy a coffee sit down and use your wireless internet access, costing the shop money and depriving others of resources."So what if he DIDN'T buy a coffee? Would the owners immediately call the cops? Would the cops immediately charge him? Or would cooler heads prevail and the person would be politely asked to leave. In each case, he was using an "unauthorized" resource. If you can answer that then you MIGHT have an argument. "I sure wish some people on digg would actually think first before jumping up and down as soon as they think a little of their right is trampled upon. I know it is hard to make a distinction but this guy clearly knew what he did was illegal."And I wish that there were more people in this country that were not so willing to give up those same rights so easily when our previous and current generations fought so hard to get them in the first place.
oepapelMay 23, 2007
"Incorrect. Pay attention carefully. You cannot take the book unless you have a library card. The library card is your Authorization to take the book and the Term of Service(TOS) is that you must return it within certain days. These are separate things."That's where you are wrong. Don't confuse procedure and process with authorization. Library cards are just part of the process of tracking who lent out stuff to what. It is specifically NOT authorization. The library (and all the books that are in it) belong to the collective public. They could just as easily use the "honour system" or a simple signout sheet. In your argument, who is granting authorization in these alternate processes? The piece of paper that's the signout sheet? My own moral code?Authorization is therefore NOT mandatory. "It is illegal to walk into the library to take the book if you don't have a library card even if the front door of the library is open and free for people to walk in."I can walk into a library, get a pile of books off the shelf, get a table, and stare at the books all day long (all while sitting in air conditioning) . I am costing the library money. I am depriving other users of those resources. I can get any and all the information I want, either by remembering it, writing it down, photocopying or otherwise using the resources as I want then walk out the front door. I can do all this WITHOUT EVER HAVING BEEN AUTHORIZED TO DO SO either explicitly or implicitly.Your analogy is again proven wrong.Bottom line: Your analogy is unworkable. You need to sit down and shut up now. The grownups are talking.
eyal352May 23, 2007
yea seriously i really hate cops and the District Attourney in this country because they try to screw you over with ignorant laws instead of protecting their citizens.. there are people actually doing illegal activites in this country that actually harms other people. If you dont hurt anyone than it really shouldnt be a crime.
daftmanMay 23, 2007
Sadly you are mistaken. The library card work on two folds. Indeed it does use as a process of tracking. However it is also used as an authorization. If the library system requires a library card, I very much doubt you could write a short note that say "Borrowed, bring back on monday, address at the bottom...." Your sign out sheet has to be approved before you can take the book. Thus authorization is mandatory. Furthermore, the book belongs to the library and/or the local government, not the individuals. Go and look up the meaning of ownership. You cannot enter the library and exclaimed that you have part ownership of this book and are entitle to take it and do with it as you wish."I can walk into a library, get a pile of books off the shelf, get a table, and stare at the books all day long (all while sitting in air conditioning) . I am costing the library money. I am depriving other users of those resources. I can get any and all the information I want, either by remembering it, writing it down, photocopying or otherwise using the resources as I want then walk out the front door. I can do all this WITHOUT EVER HAVING BEEN AUTHORIZED TO DO SO either explicitly or implicitly." The answer is already in your argument. "You walked into the library." This mean you are already inside the jurisdiction of the library, of course you can do whatever you want. However, it is a different story if you walk into the library, take a book without borrowing, go outside and read the book. You would fine right on the spot. Why? the people in the library does not authorize you or acknowledge you taking the book. The fact that you cost the library does not matter because you are already in the library and use its resources as it is expected. Relating back to the article, this would be the same if you walk into the shop, buy a coffee sit down and use your wireless internet access, costing the shop money and depriving others of resources. But this is ok why? because the shop owner already approved, acknowledge and authorize you to do that.I sure wish some people on digg would actually think first before jumping up and down as soon as they think a little of their right is trampled upon. I know it is hard to make a distinction but this guy clearly knew what he did was illegal.
dlsspyMay 24, 2007
@daftman:"this guy clearly knew what he did was illegal."FTA: ``Peterson, not realizing that what he was doing was (at least) ethically questionable, told the officer exactly what he was doing. "I knew that the Union Street had WiFi. I just went down and checked my e-mail and didn't see a problem with that," Peterson told a reporter.''The article disagrees with you, too.
oepapelMay 24, 2007
"Sadly you are mistaken. The library card work on two folds. Indeed it does use as a process of tracking. However it is also used as an authorization."Really? My grade school library worked on the honour system. That is a library right? No authorization right? So how can you claim that authorization is mandatory? Mandatory how? What law makes it mandatory? What is the penalty of breaking this law? Just admit that you are wrong on this one..."The answer is already in your argument. "You walked into the library." This mean you are already inside the jurisdiction of the library, of course you can do whatever you want. However, it is a different story if you walk into the library, take a book without borrowing, go outside and read the book."Again, I'll refer you to my grade school library. No cards. No authorization. Students were encouraged to take a book out at recess. Again you are wrong. "Relating back to the article, this would be the same if you walk into the shop, buy a coffee sit down and use your wireless internet access, costing the shop money and depriving others of resources."So what if he DIDN'T buy a coffee? Would the owners immediately call the cops? Would the cops immediately charge him? Or would cooler heads prevail and the person would be politely asked to leave. In each case, he was using an "unauthorized" resource. If you can answer that then you MIGHT have an argument. "I sure wish some people on digg would actually think first before jumping up and down as soon as they think a little of their right is trampled upon. I know it is hard to make a distinction but this guy clearly knew what he did was illegal."And I wish that there were more people in this country that were not so willing to give up those same rights so easily when our previous and current generations fought so hard to get them in the first place.
josko50May 27, 2007
I live in this town. I would love to start a protest at the cafe. Send me a message if you're interested.
andycookerNov 28, 2007
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